Its time to remove affinity range - in every gamemode

[Teridax68]

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Shared loot would probably produce more leeching behaviour, and there are higher number of leeches in Railjack - at least in my experience. I chalk that up to 1) the broken Affinity system and 2) the fact that Railjack doesn't need cooperation or teamwork (a good pilot could single-handedly carry even a thousand AFK players) and 3) the lack of quality anti-AFK detection and reporting. But these are issues that exist regardless of Affinity Range or shared looting, so addressing them on their own would be far more productive than doing nothing at all. Expand Railjack's looting and Affinity and rework Affinity distribution and improve anti-AFK detection and reporting and work on balance and mechanics that promote real cooperation. Doing nothing does, well, nothing.

I wasn't aware of this, but I do agree that the issue of AFK leeching should be addressed at the source, by identifying leeching behavior and punishing it. The problem with imposing range restrictions on the gains of certain currencies is that to some players, they don't matter at all: a player with a maxed-out frame and weapons, a full Focus tree, and past their daily Standing cap will have no use for Affinity, and past a certain point there is equally little reason to care about other drops such as resources and mods. If the only intent is to simply complete the mission and gain what comes from that, Affinity range and the like isn't going to discourage leechers one bit, and even in situations where leechers do want to accrue Affinity, the system as it exists fails to protect against that when all the leecher has to do is sit themselves on top of the objective in Hydron and rake in the gains from their teammates doing the work from only a few meters away. Not only should it be made easier to report leechers, there ought to be better tools to dedicate behavior that is clearly not coming from a human participating in the mission.

[Flannoit]

On 2021-09-02 at 1:01 PM, PublikDomain said:

But Affinity Range is only a factor if people are leveling gear. If you're not leveling anything then the one and only incentive to stick around goes away.

Not fully true, and idk if someone's already pointed this out, but enemy spawns are also reliant on player positioning in some missions, too. Players who are too spread out will heavily skew the way Survival spawns enemies, sometimes giving some of the players few or no enemies. But that's still just for one game mode, though it also has a lesser effect in Excavation (though people are gonna be sticking around Exca anyways since enemies are more likely to spawn around active excavators and for the most part ignore player location)

[iHeuksal]

I also disagree. People willing to leech of from round to round are easily noticeable due to affinity range latching onto the nuker or any other kind of powerleveler and thus its easier to distinguish and record those flawful users.

An infinite affinity range would just mean, that they can go full afk and run a simple braindead script on a loot-/crate-cave to avoid the prehistorical simple afk-penalty (no affinity/item/etc. gain) system.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Flannoit said:

Not fully true, and idk if someone's already pointed this out, but enemy spawns are also reliant on player positioning in some missions, too. Players who are too spread out will heavily skew the way Survival spawns enemies, sometimes giving some of the players few or no enemies. But that's still just for one game mode, though it also has a lesser effect in Excavation (though people are gonna be sticking around Exca anyways since enemies are more likely to spawn around active excavators and for the most part ignore player location)

That sounds like an issue with how spawns are handled, though, and not something addressed by Affinity Range. It's another one of those issues that ought to be addressed separately. If players being separated means fewer maximum spawns across the map, then DE could/should change how those spawns are handled.

[(PSN)Adometro]

Is your issue affinity, or is it team play?  Let's imagine a scenario where all affinity is shared and all loot is shared.  But for each teammate close to you, you get +25% resource booster.

Would you be happy that you have affinity, or would you be upset that the game is still rewarding people for cooperating with their team?

Also, I realize this would be a terrible mechanic and the chat flaming when someone got out of range would be insane.

[Nexeroff]

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Well, too bad. You can't make me. You have no power over how other players behave in PUGs, and you can complain as much as you like but you're never going to see anything change until the mechanics change. Either the mechanics change and the problems you bring up are addressed, or nothing changes and I guess you can keep putting up with it.

It's kinda weird that you would clip me saying full sentence that related to others who are frustrated, and I suggested they play solo and then you twist it to seem like I was trying to force anyone to do so, or make them in any way.  It's like you are a child that does not yet understand their boundaries, or language fully.  I can imagine you saying that in the youngest, most bratty way I imaginable, lol.  It's actually funny.

Why would I want to make anyone play solo?  This discussion is about a reward given for playing closer to team mates, it has nothing to do with forcing or making anyone do anything.  The way it stands now, you can play however you like but if you play selfishly, in a team effort by going off in whatever direction and not contributing to the benefit of your team members then you don't get a reward.  I think this game mechanic functions exceedingly well as is.

I find it odd people are suggesting they should receive what is a reward, without complying with the requirements of that reward.  I will say it again for your benefit since you seem to have not understood my comment previously.  If you don't like the way the game mechanic works, then play solo and don't worry about it so much.  If you cannot comply with the reward, don't cry about it and demand that it be given to you anyway regardless of whatever reasons those being selfish or otherwise.  You can play and do whatever you want, you just will not be rewarded for playing in an antisocial way in a game that rewards people for playing in teams and behaving as part of a team working towards a team effort.

And more power to you, you progress will be a little slower, you will train a little slower and probably still be posting on threads like this complaining how you should receive a reward you didn't earn.

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

No, it's a punishment, and not for the person who roams. It's a punishment for the rest of the team because they lose out on the Affinity and items dropped elsewhere in the map.

The game doesn't punish anyone, it's the person who doesn't care to contribute to the team effort, who runs off to do whatever it is they are doing that is punishing themselves and negatively affecting everyone else.

Again, since this also seems to escape you, the intent of affinity is to reward behavior that creates good teams where people benefit each other.  It is a way to encourage team behavior.  Nobody is forcing anyone to play in a particular way.  If you don't want the reward, or to be rewarded for playing as the developers intended and reward you, then don't.  If the affinity thing bothers you so much, then go play solo and don't worry about affinity at all.  If you are going to behave selfishly, only seeking to benefit yourself and while doing so, seeking to leach off others then you probably should play solo.

When I end up in a pub of people who play selfishly I just leave and queue for another group, or play solo, or play with friends in pre-made groups.  Doesn't bother me at all how you play because I have other options I can take advantage of.  If you want to present the worst possible team player you can be to whatever group you are with, go right ahead, but don't cry on the forums about affinity range, you didn't behave as the reward requires you to, so you don't get it.  It's really that simple.  Behave one way you receive the reward and it's not an issue at all, behave anti-socially in a group, team effort and you don't get the reward.  I see no issues or problems with the current system, and to be honest, I am happy regardless of not needing affinity at my MR to train anything.  I like that people are rewarded for playing friendly and in a team effort, and I equally like that others are not rewarded for behaving selfishly.  =)  I like things exactly the way they currently are.

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

You do realize that if Railjack's mechanics were more widely adopted, then all players would always benefit all other players? I could be roaming around helping my team, which sounds a lot better than me roaming around - which I'm gonna do anyways - wasting drops and Affinity. Do you get that?

Railjack is a different animal, it requires the completion of multiple goals that are far flung.  In that case, the way that Railjack functions works in that example.  A Railjack mission cannot compare to a regular mission in any way. 

In regular Archwing missions, the shared affinity range is increased to 200 meters, the archwing tilesets are huge but you still share the same goals.  With Railjack missions, the shared affinity range is infinite, because the tileset is even larger and has distributed goals, not a succession of goals.  For example, in an archwing mission such as mobile defense, you are required to go from one location to the next.  Or in extermination, all the enemies spawn more or less within affinity range so the range is applicable.  In railjack missions you are required to shoot enemy ships which requires 1-2 people to stay on the ship while others complete other objectives and then all come together.  You work as a team on a giant massive tileset so the way affinity is distributed is appropriate only in that case, and even still you have a lot of people leaching in railjack missions.

You suggest that all players would benefit from each running off and doing their own thing, this is incorrect.  Other game mechanics would have to be altered to cater to your suggestion.

If you and I are in a mission and you run off to one side of the map, and I to the other side of the map, the enemy spawn could work in several ways.  Either the spawned enemies are split between you and I, or far more enemies spawn for me than you and you are left with only a few enemies to kill.  In this scenario one of us would be working harder, killing more enemies and gain less XP.  You get more XP from affinity than you do when you actually kill something yourself.  So one of us would do more work and acquire less XP.  Not only that, but if like railjack one person would be doing most of the heavy lifting and working more towards the mission completion and yet, the person doing mostly nothing would benefit equally from loot drops.

There is also the question of frames that generate more look like Nekros, Khora, Hydroid etc.  If for example, enemies are killed in Khora's cage they drop more loot with the right mod equipped, if someone has run off in some other direction and most of the enemies are spawning outside the range of Khora's cage, then effectively Khora might as well not even be used in this case.  There is also the range of buffs, any buffs you might benefit the group or the group might benefit you would not be realized because you would be outside the range of buffs.

You see, your selfish behavior would not actually benefit others in your group on regular mission tilesets.  You would be harming the group effort, not helping the group effort.  I think maybe you are not aware of how the game mechanics work, and this must be the reason why you insist that this suggestion is valid when it's obvious it is not.  You can make all the personal attacks you want, you can attack me by suggesting I said things in a way I never meant, you can try to humiliate and demean but the truth is the truth and facts do not lie.  Your way would not work and would not be fair to others.  You can choose as an individual not to play nice or contribute to a team effort but don't expect to be rewarded for behaving in an antisocial way in a game that is about being social, that just seems really silly to me.

[Soy77]

On 2021-09-03 at 2:40 AM, DreisterDino said:

What do you guys think?

I think warframe was designed as a multiplayer game.

And as time goes by, it ends up being a better solo game.

So yeah, the less mechanics involving other players potentially ruin my gaming experience, the better.

[(PSN)Unstar]

20 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Why ?

Because of Bless ? I mean... Would you ever type in Recruit Chat: "Steel Essence Farm 3/4 need Trinity" ?

I don't ever see that happening since players have an abundance of ways to "Bless" themselves.... But since They're all band aids I guess someone would do this.

[points to the winky face at the end of the line you quoted]

[PublikDomain]

7 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

It's kinda weird that you would clip me saying full sentence that related to others who are frustrated, and I suggested they play solo and then you twist it to seem like I was trying to force anyone to do so, or make them in any way.  It's like you are a child that does not yet understand their boundaries, or language fully.  I can imagine you saying that in the youngest, most bratty way I imaginable, lol.  It's actually funny.

Why would I want to make anyone play solo?  This discussion is about a reward given for playing closer to team mates, it has nothing to do with forcing or making anyone do anything.  The way it stands now, you can play however you like but if you play selfishly, in a team effort by going off in whatever direction and not contributing to the benefit of your team members then you don't get a reward.  I think this game mechanic functions exceedingly well as is.

I find it odd people are suggesting they should receive what is a reward, without complying with the requirements of that reward.  I will say it again for your benefit since you seem to have not understood my comment previously.  If you don't like the way the game mechanic works, then play solo and don't worry about it so much.  If you cannot comply with the reward, don't cry about it and demand that it be given to you anyway regardless of whatever reasons those being selfish or otherwise.  You can play and do whatever you want, you just will not be rewarded for playing in an antisocial way in a game that rewards people for playing in teams and behaving as part of a team working towards a team effort.

And more power to you, you progress will be a little slower, you will train a little slower and probably still be posting on threads like this complaining how you should receive a reward you didn't earn.

The game doesn't punish anyone, it's the person who doesn't care to contribute to the team effort, who runs off to do whatever it is they are doing that is punishing themselves and negatively affecting everyone else.

Again, since this also seems to escape you, the intent of affinity is to reward behavior that creates good teams where people benefit each other.  It is a way to encourage team behavior.  Nobody is forcing anyone to play in a particular way.  If you don't want the reward, or to be rewarded for playing as the developers intended and reward you, then don't.  If the affinity thing bothers you so much, then go play solo and don't worry about affinity at all.  If you are going to behave selfishly, only seeking to benefit yourself and while doing so, seeking to leach off others then you probably should play solo.

When I end up in a pub of people who play selfishly I just leave and queue for another group, or play solo, or play with friends in pre-made groups.  Doesn't bother me at all how you play because I have other options I can take advantage of.  If you want to present the worst possible team player you can be to whatever group you are with, go right ahead, but don't cry on the forums about affinity range, you didn't behave as the reward requires you to, so you don't get it.  It's really that simple.  Behave one way you receive the reward and it's not an issue at all, behave anti-socially in a group, team effort and you don't get the reward.  I see no issues or problems with the current system, and to be honest, I am happy regardless of not needing affinity at my MR to train anything.  I like that people are rewarded for playing friendly and in a team effort, and I equally like that others are not rewarded for behaving selfishly.  =)  I like things exactly the way they currently are.

Railjack is a different animal, it requires the completion of multiple goals that are far flung.  In that case, the way that Railjack functions works in that example.  A Railjack mission cannot compare to a regular mission in any way. 

In regular Archwing missions, the shared affinity range is increased to 200 meters, the archwing tilesets are huge but you still share the same goals.  With Railjack missions, the shared affinity range is infinite, because the tileset is even larger and has distributed goals, not a succession of goals.  For example, in an archwing mission such as mobile defense, you are required to go from one location to the next.  Or in extermination, all the enemies spawn more or less within affinity range so the range is applicable.  In railjack missions you are required to shoot enemy ships which requires 1-2 people to stay on the ship while others complete other objectives and then all come together.  You work as a team on a giant massive tileset so the way affinity is distributed is appropriate only in that case, and even still you have a lot of people leaching in railjack missions.

You suggest that all players would benefit from each running off and doing their own thing, this is incorrect.  Other game mechanics would have to be altered to cater to your suggestion.

If you and I are in a mission and you run off to one side of the map, and I to the other side of the map, the enemy spawn could work in several ways.  Either the spawned enemies are split between you and I, or far more enemies spawn for me than you and you are left with only a few enemies to kill.  In this scenario one of us would be working harder, killing more enemies and gain less XP.  You get more XP from affinity than you do when you actually kill something yourself.  So one of us would do more work and acquire less XP.  Not only that, but if like railjack one person would be doing most of the heavy lifting and working more towards the mission completion and yet, the person doing mostly nothing would benefit equally from loot drops.

There is also the question of frames that generate more look like Nekros, Khora, Hydroid etc.  If for example, enemies are killed in Khora's cage they drop more loot with the right mod equipped, if someone has run off in some other direction and most of the enemies are spawning outside the range of Khora's cage, then effectively Khora might as well not even be used in this case.  There is also the range of buffs, any buffs you might benefit the group or the group might benefit you would not be realized because you would be outside the range of buffs.

You see, your selfish behavior would not actually benefit others in your group on regular mission tilesets.  You would be harming the group effort, not helping the group effort.  I think maybe you are not aware of how the game mechanics work, and this must be the reason why you insist that this suggestion is valid when it's obvious it is not.  You can make all the personal attacks you want, you can attack me by suggesting I said things in a way I never meant, you can try to humiliate and demean but the truth is the truth and facts do not lie.  Your way would not work and would not be fair to others.  You can choose as an individual not to play nice or contribute to a team effort but don't expect to be rewarded for behaving in an antisocial way in a game that is about being social, that just seems really silly to me.

Then I guess you'll just have to keep putting up with it. 🤷‍♀️

[SteveCutler]

I strongly agree. At the very least, remove it in Defense. Hydron is a popular grinding node and it has what appears to be a very small map. And yet if you move away towards the corners to clean up mobs in this "search and destroy" game mode you lose affinity, unless you pop a Fosfor. I find that absolutely ridiculous, and it encourages leeching because you get better affinity just sitting around in the middle of the map instead of roaming and killing. The same goes with Sanctuary Onslaught.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I skimmed through it and I see people disagreeing because it would apparently encourage leeching. Maybe in Survival, but not in these single-room search and destroy modes. It's actually the opposite, with the current affinity range system encouraging leeching because players are afraid to step away from the middle and lose affinity. The enemies are not in the middle; they're hidden around the edges of the arena, walking incredibly slowly towards the objective and/or getting stuck on things. Generally you need to step away from the middle in order to contribute to the objective, but doing so sacrifices affinity. I see it 100% of the time in Hydron and ESO runs.

Affinity range is so incredibly stupid. It's quite possibly one of the worst things in this game, and there are many bad things in this game.

[Nexeroff]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Then I guess you'll just have to keep putting up with it. 🤷‍♀️

Lol, you try too hard to troll...

What I will do is correct you so all can see what your intent is, and as a result simply dismiss what you say as seeking to troll and not add anything of value to the discussion at hand.

Reality is vastly different from whatever you think is happening in your head.  Enjoy the show my friend.

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

Lol, you try too hard to troll...

What I will do is correct you so all can see what your intent is, and as a result simply dismiss what you say as seeking to troll and not add anything of value to the discussion at hand.

Reality is vastly different from whatever you think is happening in your head.  Enjoy the show my friend.

I don't really know how you're "correcting" me when your grand solution to the issues you've raised and take such great offense to... is to do nothing at all. Like I've explained multiple times, all of the things you've brought up would be addressed by expanding Railjack's sharing mechanics. Players like you are the ones most upset by roaming and are also the ones that stand to gain the most from these kinds of changes - but you still don't want it. Even though these mechanics would turn what you view as detrimental behaviours into beneficial behaviours, as far as I can understand you're opposed to this out of spite for players you view as "selfish"? But the only one you're actually spiting is yourself, because players like me who roam don't need this Affinity or resources or spawns in the first place. We don't lose anything from these changes not being more widely adopted, only you and the players you're advocating for. You're so mad that you're fighting the thing that would help you.

The reality is that Affinity Range does nothing to prevent the issues you've raised, and will never prevent the issues you've raised, and that the issues you've raised will continue to upset you (and only you) until the heat-death of the universe - unless the mechanics change so those behaviours stop being detrimental. That is the only way for these issues you've brought up to be addressed.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2021-09-04 at 12:56 PM, T-Shark69 said:

I vote for removing it from Railjack altogether so leeching c*nts stop leeching and actually start contributing.

I hate leeches too, but they are going to leech or AFK regardless unless literally every system for sharing things is completely removed, which will totally screw over everyone else.

[DreisterDino]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb SteveCutler:

I strongly agree. At the very least, remove it in Defense. Hydron is a popular grinding node and it has what appears to be a very small map. And yet if you move away towards the corners to clean up mobs in this "search and destroy" game mode you lose affinity, unless you pop a Fosfor. I find that absolutely ridiculous, and it encourages leeching because you get better affinity just sitting around in the middle of the map instead of roaming and killing. The same goes with Sanctuary Onslaught.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I skimmed through it and I see people disagreeing because it would apparently encourage leeching. Maybe in Survival, but not in these single-room search and destroy modes. It's actually the opposite, with the current affinity range system encouraging leeching because players are afraid to step away from the middle and lose affinity. The enemies are not in the middle; they're hidden around the edges of the arena, walking incredibly slowly towards the objective and/or getting stuck on things. Generally you need to step away from the middle in order to contribute to the objective, but doing so sacrifices affinity. I see it 100% of the time in Hydron and ESO runs.

Affinity range is so incredibly stupid. It's quite possibly one of the worst things in this game, and there are many bad things in this game.

 

I think this is a really good point, i am sure everyone has experienced this.

There are only a few enemies left (in the corners) but you are afraid to move too far away because you/others would leave affinity range.

So, as you pointed out, the result is that everyone is standing in the middle waiting for the enemies to approach and then kill them.

 

There is a difference between theory and actual gameplay

• in theory, and thats also the point that comes up as a reason to keep affinity range, we should stay together so that we "work together as a team", "buff each other" or are "ready to revive other players". If people run too far away, that is considered "Anti Co-Op". It sounds about right on paper.
• but whats the result in actual gameplay? Most enemies have been killed by ~1 player who plays a nuke frame. And that guy will most likely kill the last enemies aswell because the other players dont want to move out of range and sweep up the enemies that have survived the nuke. So we have 1 player doing most of the work and 3 players doing close to nothing. Is that the kind of Co-op we want just for the sake of staying together?

 

Without affinity range there would be different jobs for everyone, and i would call that better co-op gameplay if we have a) a Nuke player who nukes most of the enemies and b) 1-3 players who hunt the remaining enemies. From a Gameplay/Fun perspective, that would be a lot better then 1 player doing everything with nothing left for the others.

 

Finally i have the feeling that mostly everyone who is against removing affinity range looks at it purely from the standpoint of Survival Missions. Although i dont think there is any good reason for affinity range, i can see that in this gamemode affinity range might serve a slightly different purpose because we have no mission objectives that are located somewhere. So affinity range tries to act like a mission objective.

Still, there are many different other mission types in which players either stay together naturally because we have objectives located somewhere or - on the complete opposite - have to spread out (Spy, Interception, everytime you want to find something like Orokin Vaults, Kuva Syphons etc). In many missions staying together too much is slower, less fun, unnecessary and spreading out would be a lot more cooperative because thats what the mission actually wants from us.

[Nexeroff]

15 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't really know how you're "correcting" me when your grand solution to the issues you've raised and take such great offense to... is to do nothing at all. Like I've explained multiple times, all of the things you've brought up would be addressed by expanding Railjack's sharing mechanics. Players like you are the ones most upset by roaming and are also the ones that stand to gain the most from these kinds of changes - but you still don't want it. Even though these mechanics would turn what you view as detrimental behaviours into beneficial behaviours, as far as I can understand you're opposed to this out of spite for players you view as "selfish"? But the only one you're actually spiting is yourself, because players like me who roam don't need this Affinity or resources or spawns in the first place. We don't lose anything from these changes not being more widely adopted, only you and the players you're advocating for. You're so mad that you're fighting the thing that would help you.

The reality is that Affinity Range does nothing to prevent the issues you've raised, and will never prevent the issues you've raised, and that the issues you've raised will continue to upset you (and only you) until the heat-death of the universe - unless the mechanics change so those behaviours stop being detrimental. That is the only way for these issues you've brought up to be addressed.

I didn't say I took offense to anything.  Simply put, I am for keeping things the way they are, because that's how things work best.  I have pointed out where you are wrong, how what you suggest would harm not work in other peoples favor and you then resorted to insults.

You are wrong, it would not benefit anyone except the person not playing as the reward intended.

Affinity is a reward for doing something specific, if you no longer have that requirement, it's not a reward and then should be removed from the game.

There is no affinity range in Railjack missions because of the nature of the requirements to complete the mission itself, there is a different affinity requirement for archwing missions because of the same reason, the size of the tileset, that is not an issue in normal missions they are different missions with different objectives, different tileset size so have different requirements to meet for the reward.

I pointed out where if you are outside affinity range, you then split enemy spawns, split the resources dropping and thus harm your team mates by playing selfishly, you should not be rewarded with extra XP via affinity for playing that way, and justly are not.

When you are outside affinity range, any buffs you might afford your team mates you no longer do.  You should not be rewarded as if you were, but giving you free affinity.

Splitting enemy spawn negatively affects other players that are using frames that depend on the kill count for buffs, like nidus stacks, or xaku's guns for example.  You should not be rewarded with XP via affinity for negatively affecting the team effort in that way, and justly are not.

All these things are addressed with the affinity range, those people who choose to play outside that range are only an issue when you play in pubs of random people whom some may play in that selfish way.  I know this going into a pub mission, I expect some if not all of the strangers I am playing with to behave in this way so it doesn't bother or surprise me when they do.  If I am training, I train at Hydron or SO anyway, so for me it's not an issue, and I'm at the max MR, so while the buffs are nice I don't really need them I equip to play solo anyway.  However, if I am removing myself from the conversation and not thinking about myself in these responses as I have done and I am thinking unselfishly, the affinity makes complete sense for everyone.  You get buffs, you get kills for procing your arcanes, your warframe stacks or requirements, your mod requirements and you most likely will not get those same things, nor as often, if everyone runs off outside affinity range. 

You see, it's not just XP we are talking about.  If you split enemies, then the mods dependent on kills to give extra multishot or whatever, don't work nearly as effectively.  The arcanes, some of which require damage to proc, some of which require headshots etc will not work as often, nor will you have as many oppurtunities to force the proce.  Shield gating works differently.  Everything works less effectively when selfish players run outside affinity range and split enemy spawns.  There is no benefit to the group, and only benefit to players that are not meeting the requirements of the reward and playing selfishly.

I suggested that if someone wants to farm, break containers, play as if they are the only person on the map then they should play solo.  I do this often myself, if I go out looking for sculptures, I do it solo.  Or, if I am looking for something specific, I don't queue with a group of randoms and then leach off them for the mission requirements (not contributing to the mission requirements) or not staying within range so they get the affinity from my kills, or vice/versa or the buffs or enemy spawns, etc.  People who do that are leaching and should not be rewarded with extra HP.

Again, and please take note of this fact.  Affinity is a reward for playing as a team, specifically staying within range so you can play as a team, so that spawns are normalized, so that people can proc their frame, arcanes, mods, weapons etc.  What you and the OP are suggesting is that regardless of how selfishly a person plays, they should also be rewarded with extra XP in the form of affinity.

So how about this, explain why they deserve a reward for playing against the team in such a way that it reduces the effectiveness of the team.  Why should a player be rewarded?  What did they do to earn the reward?  What did they do as a team player?

You see, you are not just wrong in what you have put forth, you are wrong in all the ways you have yet to even consider.  You not only are wrong, but your thinking is selfish in regards to only yourself.  If you really want to play in a way that is not being a team player, then why not just play solo, it makes far more sense than suggesting that the game mechanics for arcanes, mods, warframes, pets and companions and weapons should be changed just so you can earn extra XP in the form of an affinity reward you are utterly undeserving of.

I laugh when people run off to behave selfishly in a mission they queued for as a team player.  They do negatively affect everyone else, but they more negatively affect themselves.  They harm their own effort.  Then they come here and talk about how difficult it was to proc a mod, or an arcane or their frame abilities.  And I laugh again because I know and realize they play selfishly and are reaping the rewards of selfish game play.  So while you insist it bothers me, it does not.  I don't nor will I ever understand why people work against their own self interests but I see it often enough to know it's a thing.

So no, if you don't meet the requirements of the reward, you are undeserving of the reward and no, DE should not change how things function so you can continue to behave selfishly and realize a reward you don't deserve.

Mostly, I feel that the people who are complaining about affinity range are complaining because they are most likely the selfish player that I have been describing.

So while you might not like me saying it, the truth is you are wrong.  Not just a little, not only partially you are 100% wrong.  I feel bad that you are wrong and want to be right so bad you continue to insist things that just simply make no sense.  You are presenting yourself as being unreasonable and not allowing logic to dictate your posts but instead, reacting emotionally to your wants and desires to be rewarded with something you did not ear.

Or to sum it up, if you didn't ear the reward, you don't get the reward, grow up and start behaving like an adult instead of a small child so often spoiled they feel deserving of things they are not.

[Nexeroff]

Affinity is a reward for playing closer to team mates, so you can help them and they you, buff them and they you, res them, so that enemy spawns are not split, people get procs needed for their arcanes, mods, weapons, frames etc.

To be clear, the removal of affinity range, is the removal of affinity.  I would be okay with totally removing affinity if there is another way to reward players for staying closer and helping their team mates.  This would be my suggestion.

Totally remove affinity, no range, no reward for staying in range or not.  If you are not staying in range, you don't deserve the reward anyway, so just remove it.

Reward players for specific actions that help team mates.  For contributing to the final goal, for resurrecting someone, for buffing someone in whatever way, for doing significant damage or contributing in some significant way to the mission objectives.  Give more XP to the players who support the team effort, and less to those who prefer to play more selfishly even though they queued to play with a team and know it's a team effort.

In this way, those who play more socially and not ant-socially are rewarded.  Those who contribute more to the group effort, are rewarded more, those who contribute less are not rewarded at all, as it should be.  And remove affinity all together.  If those who play selfishly, who are really trying to just leach instead of contribute continue to play that way, they get nothing.  As a matter of fact, I would suggest they don't get the mission rewards either, why should they benefit from the work of others if not putting forth any effort towards the end goal themselves?

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

In this way, those who play more socially and not ant-socially are rewarded.  Those who contribute more to the group effort, are rewarded more, those who contribute less are not rewarded at all, as it should be.  And remove affinity all together.  If those who play selfishly, who are really trying to just leach instead of contribute continue to play that way, they get nothing.  As a matter of fact, I would suggest they don't get the mission rewards either, why should they benefit from the work of others if not putting forth any effort towards the end goal themselves?

🤔 Personally, I’d love to see teamwork rewarded more. Despite my initial ridiculous suggestion to remove bonus affinity range but make everyone weaker, I had the “Debuff everyone involved” to facilitate sticking together because then players had to in order to survive if they were more at-tisk of death and inability to kill.

What can solve the situations where a player joins with intent to help, but there’s simply nothing to do?

edit: were you the one I was talking to about players being forced into playing a certain way…? Multiplayer amongst demigods was a situation I was thinking of when we were talking

[Kripnex]

I agree, but removing it completely seems too good to come true, hopefully they will think about buffing the "increase affinity radius" of Mending Unity to 100 meters, since Vazarin is cr*p anyway.

[PublikDomain]

7 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

because that's how things work best. 

And yet as you've explained in just about all of your posts on this thread, there are still people behaving in the ways that upset you. Clearly it's not working "best" when this issue is so prevalent that you're writing essays about how horrible people keep behaving and how selfish and undeserving they are.

7 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

I don't nor will I ever understand why people work against their own self interests but I see it often enough to know it's a thing.

He says, working against his own self interests. Buddy. Friend. My good pal. Sweetheart.

I don't want your Affinity or drops when I roam.

I want you to have my Affinity and drops when I roam.

But if you don't want it, oh well? Until something changes I guess you'll continue to get nothing.

7 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

and you then resorted to insults.

What insults? I called you mad, and said that you're complaining. Which you're doing. But please do quote me if you feel that I've insulted you in some way.

Meanwhile not only have you insulted me personally multiple times, you've also called the players you're looking down on selfish, leeching, behaving like "chickens with their head cut off", "bad players", lazy, entitled, and undeserving. I think it's pretty clear who's resorted to insults.

On 2021-09-05 at 2:10 AM, Nexeroff said:

It's like you are a child that does not yet understand their boundaries, or language fully.  I can imagine you saying that in the youngest, most bratty way I imaginable, lol.  It's actually funny.

7 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

grow up and start behaving like an adult instead of a small child so often spoiled they feel deserving of things they are not.

[Nexeroff]

11 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And yet as you've explained in just about all of your posts on this thread, there are still people behaving in the ways that upset you. Clearly it's not working "best" when this issue is so prevalent that you're writing essays about how horrible people keep behaving and how selfish and undeserving they are.

I cannot believe I have to explain this to you.  Best does not mean perfect, there is no perfect.  This is the best solution to people running off playing selfishly.  They still do it, but many do not because of the Affinity reward of XP.  So it's the best option.

I used to make the Nicoderm patch, Nicotine is absolutely deadly if you get just one drop on your skin, I had to wear an enclosed suit with a hose that piped air in from the wall while working with liquid nicotine, it's that bad.  So I had to seriously think about what I was doing, why I was doing it and how it was beneficial in any way.  It's because for some people the Nicotine patch was the best option, better to quit than to continue smoking.  In some cases it's the best option.

So while you might continue over and over to nitpick that it's not a perfect option, I will re-iterate, it's the best option.  Giving people a reward for something they did not earn, which is what you are suggesting, encourages more leaching and running off not contributing to the group.  So when you compare your option with what is currently in place, the current system is far, far better, it's the best option.

Hope that clears up what it seems you were struggling really hard to understand.

16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

He says, working against his own self interests. Buddy. Friend. My good pal. Sweetheart.

I don't want your Affinity or drops when I roam.

I want you to have my Affinity and drops when I roam.

But if you don't want it, oh well? Until something changes I guess you'll continue to get nothing.

Please, don't call me your sweetheart, that's a little creepy

You do not get my affinity, nor anyone else's affinity, the only affinity you get is your affinity.  I'll explain this once again so you might understand, since again it seems you are struggling to understand what affinity is.

Affinity = reward for playing as a team player, not as an individual player.  If you play within a specific range of other people, you get a reward that is your reward alone, that reward is called "affinity".  I did not give you my reward, you didn't get my reward instead of me getting my reward.  As a matter of fact, the only thing your affinity reward has to do with me, is that you get it if you stay close to me, and I kill stuff and you do not get it if you don't stay close to me and that harms you.  I am past the point of needing an affinity reward, but even still I watch that range so that I might help others with their reward, and help them otherwise as well, and receive buffs by doing so which although I don't need them, they are nice to get.

When you roam, as you do now, you are not benefiting anyone in any way, you are actually playing against them.  When you play out of range, you split the spawns, so people proc their mods, their arcanes, their frames less often if it is based on kills.  If you want the loot that drops from other peoples kills, then stay closer rather than running off.  When people like you behave as you suggest you do, I just ignore them, I might laugh at how they are playing, hurting themselves for whatever reason they might have running off alone.  I might assume they are selfish, self centered, only care about their game play or that they are also a leach only looking to avoid combat or to run away from it long enough for others to complete the mission so they get the benefit of doing so.  There is nothing good about people who run off like you describe.  If that is your intent, then why not play solo?  When my intent is to farm something, or look for something I have enough respect for my fellow players to queue alone and do it solo.  People who expect others to complete a mission while they do whatever they are doing instead, are selfish and do not deserve any XP reward at all, and thus they do not receive any reward.

So you would have people believe that running off not contributing to the group effort is you not being selfish and wanting them to get drops and an xp reward even though you are not contributing to any of that?  Splitting enemy spawns slows down the mission no matter have fast you run around, it causes all kinds of issues for everyone playing.  It's just plain silly really, childish, selfish and a lot of other things, it makes no logical sense at all.  As I have exhaustively pointed out, and will point out again, you are wrong.

27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

What insults? I called you mad, and said that you're complaining. Which you're doing. But please do quote me if you feel that I've insulted you in some way.

Meanwhile not only have you insulted me personally multiple times, you've also called the players you're looking down on selfish, leeching, behaving like "chickens with their head cut off", "bad players", lazy, entitled, and undeserving. I think it's pretty clear who's resorted to insults.

Insults would be if I said something not true with the intent to harm, I did not say these things to harm, they are true.  So thus not insults.

Insult means:  speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.

Calling someone mad, or claiming they are complaining when not, those are disrespectful, untrue, verbal abuse, etc.  That is what you have done, you are insulting with intent and purpose.

You do sound like a spoiled child that wants something they are not deserving of.  I am not sure how else to explain it.  You want an affinity reward without earning it.  You want something that is a reward you do not deserve if you do not play as the reward intends you to play.  Affinity isn't anything you are entitled to, like XP when you kill something, affinity is your reward for meeting the requirements of a reward, period.  You are not taking anyone's affinity, you earn your own if you comply with the requirements of that reward.

Think about what affinity is instead of insisting it's something it is not.  Again, it seems you do not understand well, the words you use or the meaning of those words.,  That seems to me, literally, that you do not understand what you are saying or talking about, that you need to learn more before you post.  That's not me trying to insult you, that is actually how you seem to me to be, and I am saying it.  You sound this way in the way you present yourself.  And you insist on continuing to sound this way, how else am I suppose to describe what you are doing?  There is nothing nice I can say, it's that bad, so I'm left to describe what you are doing, how you present yourself, in the kindest possible way, and even still you claim it an insult.

I don't feel you understand what you are suggesting at all, nor do I feel you understand what has been explained to you, at all.  Either that, or you are stubbornly insisting that you are right when you know for a fact you are wrong.  What else can it possibly be?

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

This is the best solution to people running off playing selfishly.  They still do it, but many do not because of the Affinity reward of XP.  So it's the best option.

It's the best solution, even though people still run off? I think we could strive for "better". A better solution to people running off and "playing selfishly" would be be to make that beneficial to the rest of the team.

4 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

you are not benefiting anyone in any way

So the mechanics should be changed so that I can benefit them.

9 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

I did not say these things to harm, they are true.  So thus not insults.

Odd flex but ok.

[Nexeroff]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

It's the best solution, even though people still run off? I think we could strive for "better". A better solution to people running off and "playing selfishly" would be be to make that beneficial to the rest of the team.

So the mechanics should be changed so that I can benefit them.

Odd flex but ok.

You are just trying too hard to be right, I get it, you want more than anything to be right even when it's obvious you are not.

What would be a better option?  By removing range you negate the reward itself so there would be no affinity at all.  So remove affinity, what would be a better option to encourage people to play closer to others?  You have not mentioned anything better, affinity range remains the best current option.

What you are suggesting and the OP is suggesting is something else totally different.  The range associated with affinity is specifically a reward.  If you remove the reward you remove affinity and there is no extra XP you gain as a reward.  That's what affinity is, extra XP you earn by playing as a team player.  Not xp you have earned by running off playing solo in a team effort.  So tell us, right here, what would be better?

You are suggesting changing all these other different mechanics just so you can earn what is a reward for doing something specific, without doing anything to earn the reward?

You see how crazy that is right?  "change the game so I can earn more xp without doing anything to earn more XP because I want to play as a solo player in a group effort"  Yeah, you sound like a spoiled child that doesn't know any better.  That's the truth, you sound as if you just don't understand but want more more more without earning it.  Not going to happen anyway, you would get further kicking rocks.

[PublikDomain]

9 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

You are suggesting changing all these other different mechanics just so you can earn what is a reward for doing something specific

Once again, this isn't about me getting a reward. This is about you getting the rewards you're so mad about "selfish" players taking away.

3 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

What would be a better option?  By removing range you negate the reward itself so there would be no affinity at all.  So remove affinity, what would be a better option to encourage people to play closer to others?  You have not mentioned anything better, affinity range remains the best current option.

Well, I don't think players need to be encouraged to play closer to others in the first place. Maybe that's the difference.

Warframe is an easy game where every player is their own one-man army. The only time you need another player is to open a buddy door or if you're constantly getting downed, but if you get downed then you have four revives per mission, plus two more with Arcanes, plus whatever you might get from your companion. And players that still find themselves getting downed should, as you've put it in your own words, "git gud" and tag along with someone else. It's not my job to follow you around in case you get downed, if you need my help it's your job to follow me. Or, these players should head to extraction because they're clearly in over their heads.

Plus, playing too close together results in negative effects like this:

Which IMO is far more detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. I'm not gonna sit around and sing kumbaya with you, I'm gonna roam and find somewhere where I can play without stealing all of your kills and leaving you with nothing to do. And when I give you some space so we can both play the game, I take away Affinity and spawns and drops and that's not good.

16 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

What you are suggesting and the OP is suggesting is something else totally different.  The range associated with affinity is specifically a reward.  If you remove the reward you remove affinity and there is no extra XP you gain as a reward.  That's what affinity is, extra XP you earn by playing as a team player.  Not xp you have earned by running off playing solo in a team effort.  So tell us, right here, what would be better?

What would be better is letting me be a team player in the next room over, getting you the extra Affinity and drops I will otherwise continue to take away. Crazy, right?

[Nexeroff]

8 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Once again, this isn't about me getting a reward. This is about you getting the rewards you're so mad about "selfish" players taking away.

Selfish players can continue being selfish players, they are harming themselves as well and I don't mind.  I have said this repeatedly, over and over.  I don't mind at all if selfish players play selfishly.  Again, I am past the point of needing affinity, I have no weapons or frames to train I am maxed out.  As well, I do all the hardest content solo so it's not like I need buffs or anything from them.  As I repeatedly stated, it's nice to have them but I certainly don't need them.  If you play unselfishly, as a team player in range so you can help the team effort, then you are rewarded by doing so.  You running off and playing solo in a team effort doesn't do anyone good.  If you are behaving this way currently, then you don't really care about benefiting anyone with any kills or resources that might drop for you, or their needs for procing their gear, etc.  So why would this be your intent otherwise?  You make no sense, none at all, you are trying way way too hard and it's obvious.  I mean, really, it's actually laughable.

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Well, I don't think players need to be encouraged to play closer to others in the first place. Maybe that's the difference.

Warframe is an easy game where every player is their own one-man army. The only time you need another player is to open a buddy door or if you're constantly getting downed, but if you get downed then you have four revives per mission, plus two more with Arcanes, plus whatever you might get from your companion. And players that still find themselves getting downed should, as you've put it in your own words, "git gud" and tag along with someone else. It's not my job to follow you around in case you get downed, if you need my help it's your job to follow me. Or, these players should head to extraction because they're clearly in over their heads.

Warframe is an MMO, a social game, a game where you can play solo if that's your choice.  I have suggested this, since playing with other people is not something you seem to enjoy or like to do, why not just simply play solo and all your bothersome issues are resolved?  It seems the only reason you might choose to play in any group would be to benefit from them by getting that extra reward XP for playing in a group.  If that isn't true, if you really honestly don't want it as you claim and if you honestly see the game as being so easy you don't need to play in a group, and if you just want to run off doing your own thing anyway, why play in a group?  Why not just play solo?  That's the best solution to your own gripes as I see it, you don't like playing with others, you don't like contributing to the group effort, you don't think other people need your help so why bother playing in any team effort.

You make no sense, and are trying too hard to justify a stance in this discussion that is null and void.  You add no value simply because you are trying too hard to argue a point that has no value.  I don't know if you realize this fact or not, but I suggest you ponder further so that you might realize.  It's all very laughable, I can't tell if you really honestly believe any of what you are saying, if you are just trying overly hard to be right, or if you I dunno have something else going on that prevents you from logically reasoning through this.  You do keep insisting things about me that are not true, so I have to wonder if maybe there isn't something else more serious going on with you personally.

18 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which IMO is far more detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. I'm not gonna sit around and sing kumbaya with you, I'm gonna roam and find somewhere where I can play without stealing all of your kills and leaving you with nothing to do. And when I give you some space so we can both play the game, I take away Affinity and spawns and drops and that's not good.

Well lets be honest, you couldn't steel all of anyone's kills.  You are running off because you don't want to contribute to a group effort, a team effort in an MMO intended for that very thing.  You want to play solo in a group, really amounts to just leaching the way I see it.  You don't want to benefit anyone in any way because, you prefer to play selfishly.  That's your thing, it cannot be justified, it cannot be reasoned, you do it for you not anyone else and seemingly, you think you can twist what you claim to mean something it cannot and argue to receive a reward you wouldn't deserve.

It's all laughable

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

I don't mind at all if selfish players play selfishly.

Seems to me that you mind quite a lot.