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What do you think would be the proper way to deal with trolls in public rooms


AzureScion
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From many other interesting discussion threads I've gathered the general consensus is that players should not dictate how others play in a public room, because Warframe is ultimately not a "co-op" game, it's playing solo with 3 other people. Okay, so I will not tell others to not play a certain frames anymore or play how I want them to be anymore. 

But how about the people who actively (whether intentionally or not) halt the game or ruin the fun for other people? Say, a Limbo with max range and duration keeping his cataclysm up on a defense mission, or a +300% strength Slowva on a Hydron leveling run. Or maybe the people who always kill their teammates by spamming their explosives while having a rad proc on. What should I do with these people? I probably can tell them to stop doing that but what if they reply with, "I play however I want"?

Similar situation happened to me earlier, a Limbo was keeping his cataclysm + stasis on the entire time on a Hydron XP run and keeps banishing other people. I assumed the guy didn't know what he was doing, so I told them as politely as I can to stop. Well, he didn't actually say "I play however I want" or whatnot, but he didn't even say a single thing. Didn't respond, didn't stop his banish-cataclysm fun in there. Ultimately I just left the match because I couldn't handle this guy anymore, but this is honestly more of a band-aid solution to me than else.

 

What do you think?

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Just now, Genitive said:

I would do what is written in the support page. Take screenshots and make a ticket with explanation of what was going on in mission.

Ah darn I wish I had known this sooner. Forgot to take a screenshot but well, he was a lower MR player so I'll let him figure things on his own. Still forgivable I suppose.

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Just now, (PSN)drpunk-yo said:

I leave the squad.

Wisp dropping electric motes in a sortie defense, I'm out of there.

No fuss. No whining. Just gone. Onto the next.

Seems like the only logical solution I can think of. 

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In ESO there is a designated leader of the group, that person can initiate a kick of anyone else in the group, and the others in the group vote on kicking the other person.  The groups are 4 people just like here in Warframe, the person who is being voted out does not get a vote and does not know it's happening.

And then poof they are out.

I would love to see something like this in Warframe, it's almost always one person who is being difficult or a troll that should be kicked.  Unfortunately, people may use this to arbitrarily kick people who don't play as they want them to, for example, if you don't stab your lich the others might kick you for not doing so.  But it might be better than nothing at all.

I really enjoy for the most part, the Warframe community, it's a far less toxic environment than many other games, and is known for this fact.  But even still, there are people who behave in such a way as to make the experience miserable and not enjoyable at all.  We as players should have some method to police ourselves.  If we did, then I feel that since there are so many good people who play Warframe, the bad ones would be dealt with and learn quickly that their bad behavior isn't going to be tolerated.

Here is to wishing...

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il y a une heure, AzureScion a dit :

From many other interesting discussion threads I've gathered the general consensus is that players should not dictate how others play in a public room

Yes, and I despise this consensus.

Anything from small inconveniences to huge PITA, people will either say "just leave" or "what ? You don't spend half an hour in recruit chat before every single hydron run ? Then it's on you."

Which is perfectly ridiculous. Sure you can abort the instant you see a limbo in hydron or a bad build in tridolon, but there's only so many instances where this can be done, and by leaving midgame you're the only one being punished.

Other than that, in most other games, you just expect people to at least do the very minimum not to be a pain to play with, but not in this game ! People must be free to do whatever they want, no matter how insufferable they are to the team, because that make sense. What even is common sense and decency right ?

Imagine this in a moba : "don't be a bully, if xxkevinxx wants to be a fourth dps and dive the towers before a single creep gets there, it's his god given right and you shouldn't ever say anything about it !"

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1 hour ago, AzureScion said:

From many other interesting discussion threads I've gathered the general consensus is that players should not dictate how others play in a public room, because Warframe is ultimately not a "co-op" game, it's playing solo with 3 other people. Okay, so I will not tell others to not play a certain frames anymore or play how I want them to be anymore. 

But how about the people who actively (whether intentionally or not) halt the game or ruin the fun for other people? Say, a Limbo with max range and duration keeping his cataclysm up on a defense mission, or a +300% strength Slowva on a Hydron leveling run. Or maybe the people who always kill their teammates by spamming their explosives while having a rad proc on. What should I do with these people? I probably can tell them to stop doing that but what if they reply with, "I play however I want"?

Similar situation happened to me earlier, a Limbo was keeping his cataclysm + stasis on the entire time on a Hydron XP run and keeps banishing other people. I assumed the guy didn't know what he was doing, so I told them as politely as I can to stop. Well, he didn't actually say "I play however I want" or whatnot, but he didn't even say a single thing. Didn't respond, didn't stop his banish-cataclysm fun in there. Ultimately I just left the match because I couldn't handle this guy anymore, but this is honestly more of a band-aid solution to me than else.

 

What do you think?

I give you real life example of the core problem and the solution

I dont drink alcohol i dont like ppl that are under influence of alcohol
I wont refuse any1 right to drink alcohol or get/be drunk

But i dont want to meet that kind of ppl
I wont go to bar owner and tell him "yo there, care to ban entry for any1 that care to drink alcohol?"

I just wont go to that kind of place where i could meet such ppl

I would gather friends that dont drink and go idk BBQ with them instead of going to the bar

So i never understood ppl like you
You have option to leave if someone is behaving like idiot or when you see frame you dont like for example its frost and his snow globe on defense for me i see it i just quit

And then ppl like you ask to some way of punishing other players for playing in as you call it public room

What prevents you from forming your pre made squad?
If i dont give a F**** i just go with whatever squad i get if i dont wanna see certain ppl/frames i make pre made squad ensuring everyone know what to do

But when you go public its kinda FFA so whats the problem?

Did you ever wonder maybe you bring something to your squad other players dont like? Care to give them means to report you and get you punished for that?

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7 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

I give you real life example of the core problem and the solution

I dont drink alcohol i dont like ppl that are under influence of alcohol
I wont refuse any1 right to drink alcohol or get/be drunk

But i dont want to meet that kind of ppl
I wont go to bar owner and tell him "yo there, care to ban entry for any1 that care to drink alcohol?"

I just wont go to that kind of place where i could meet such ppl

I would gather friends that dont drink and go idk BBQ with them instead of going to the bar

So i never understood ppl like you
You have option to leave if someone is behaving like idiot or when you see frame you dont like for example its frost and his snow globe on defense for me i see it i just quit

And then ppl like you ask to some way of punishing other players for playing in as you call it public room

What prevents you from forming your pre made squad?
If i dont give a F**** i just go with whatever squad i get if i dont wanna see certain ppl/frames i make pre made squad ensuring everyone know what to do

But when you go public its kinda FFA so whats the problem?

Did you ever wonder maybe you bring something to your squad other players dont like? Care to give them means to report you and get you punished for that?

Jeez so aggressive... Chill the hell out man, I meant for this to be a civil discussion. Are you perhaps one of the people who actively trolls people out? Do you feel called out?

In fact I probably shouldn't bother with you at all, you seem to be overly aggressive in every discussion you participated in.

Oh and it must be such a joy to have 3 other friends who would follow you around everywhere you go like they're your personal maid or something.

And to make it clear, I wasn't asking for an option to punish people via majority voting. I was asking what people would do if faced with similar situation. So cool your head down a bit before joining in any discussion next time cause you're just making things more intense than they should be.

 

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22 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Yes, and I despise this consensus.

Anything from small inconveniences to huge PITA, people will either say "just leave" or "what ? You don't spend half an hour in recruit chat before every single hydron run ? Then it's on you."

Which is perfectly ridiculous. Sure you can abort the instant you see a limbo in hydron or a bad build in tridolon, but there's only so many instances where this can be done, and by leaving midgame you're the only one being punished.

Other than that, in most other games, you just expect people to at least do the very minimum not to be a pain to play with, but not in this game ! People must be free to do whatever they want, no matter how insufferable they are to the team, because that make sense. What even is common sense and decency right ?

Imagine this in a moba : "don't be a bully, if xxkevinxx wants to be a fourth dps and dive the towers before a single creep gets there, it's his god given right and you shouldn't ever say anything about it !"

Yeah but when it comes to MOBA it's usually a heavy coop-driven game while in Warframe it's just 4 people who just happen to be doing the same mission together. There is little to no incentive to play teamwork in Warframe because everything is either too easy to be cooperative or too hard that cooperative play doesn't even work. 

But even then I expect common sense in Warframe too, or at least being considerate with others. I don't care what other people bring into the fight as long as they work but when they start to actively harm other players' experience, that's where it gets downhill fast. 

Unfortunately leaving seems to be the only logical solution at this point, but it is as you said, you're the only one who gets punished for leaving, with the trolling guy receiving little to no punishment at all and will probably continue being an annoyance to the next group of people.

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2 hours ago, AzureScion said:

But how about the people who actively (whether intentionally or not) halt the game or ruin the fun for other people? Say, a Limbo with max range and duration keeping his cataclysm up on a defense mission, or a +300% strength Slowva on a Hydron leveling run. Or maybe the people who always kill their teammates by spamming their explosives while having a rad proc on. What should I do with these people? I probably can tell them to stop doing that but what if they reply with, "I play however I want"?

limbo max range? play saryn/mesa if map doesnt have much walls Slowva?  play aoe weapons Rad procs? nezha

There are specific, very specific missions where you not have escape for this, like eidolon hunts when your wisp/trinity have the lures , but for 99% of the game you can carry the game alone even if your teammate have negative iq and he's playing "against" the mission. Anyways like you said you can quit. But i really recomemnd you if you are going to farm affinity for something, get your gear to actually farm affinity and not depend in your squad, i saw many people using 0 formas warframe, primary,secondary,melee weapons and they finish killing 10 enemies in 10 mins, you should not be waiting for leeching exp because takes more time for you. As example i did many, many hydron runs and in that time i used amprex 

Warframe its not ready for vote kick, the community its not ready, its easily trolleabe being 3friend+1random. And looking the average age of the community, no big no.

In the other hand i really think vote pause should be a thing in this game, specially for endurance 

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you know the worst troll? joining an endless relics with some guys and speak only *****. wave 15 they choose to stay in the def mission then last second switch to leave. I can solo wave 15-20 easy but that's not what I joined the squad for. Also joining pub murmurs survival then there is always this one wukong guy who stabs his lich then just abandons. Like WTF?

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il y a 41 minutes, ZeroX4 a dit :

I give you real life example of the core problem and the solution

I dont drink alcohol i dont like ppl that are under influence of alcohol
I wont refuse any1 right to drink alcohol or get/be drunk

But i dont want to meet that kind of ppl
I wont go to bar owner and tell him "yo there, care to ban entry for any1 that care to drink alcohol?"

I just wont go to that kind of place where i could meet such ppl

I would gather friends that dont drink and go idk BBQ with them instead of going to the bar

So i never understood ppl like you
You have option to leave if someone is behaving like idiot or when you see frame you dont like for example its frost and his snow globe on defense for me i see it i just quit

And then ppl like you ask to some way of punishing other players for playing in as you call it public room

What prevents you from forming your pre made squad?
If i dont give a F**** i just go with whatever squad i get if i dont wanna see certain ppl/frames i make pre made squad ensuring everyone know what to do

But when you go public its kinda FFA so whats the problem?

Did you ever wonder maybe you bring something to your squad other players dont like? Care to give them means to report you and get you punished for that?

Ok, but if we take your example, we don't have any other bar in town, no bbq, no nothing, that is simply the only place you can go to have fun. So when you get annoyed by drunk Bob for the third time this evening, do you just sit calmly "oh well, it is what it is, I'm just gonna stay put and suffer this guy and not say a thing" ?

Back to the game, no, your "solutions" don't solve anything. 

Leaving ? Outside of the very few times where it's possible to bail at the start, when you're instead faced with the fact halfway through the game, what do you do ? Leave and get punished because of a troll, while that same troll is left perfectly fine to continue his bs ?

And what prevents me from forming a premade ? Oh I don't know, let's review what should be painfully obvious : I don't want to spend half my game time staring at recruit chat, I want to use the functionnality that allows me to start a game quickly. And it's not like if making a premade gives you any guarantee not to end up with idiots all the same. This argument is such a cop out.

Why wouldn't it be natural to expect people not to misbehave in pugs ? Why must everyone always defend the absolute scum of this game ? Why couldn't we have a way to punish those that turn pug into a ffa to begin with ?

Like in your bar example, you can sit idle and endure someone else's nonsense, or speak up against it and work toward making things better. All you people only contribute to making pugs a sheetshow, by constantly excusing what should be looked down upon.

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2 hours ago, AzureScion said:

From many other interesting discussion threads I've gathered the general consensus is that players should not dictate how others play in a public room, because Warframe is ultimately not a "co-op" game, it's playing solo with 3 other people. Okay, so I will not tell others to not play a certain frames anymore or play how I want them to be anymore. 

But how about the people who actively (whether intentionally or not) halt the game or ruin the fun for other people? Say, a Limbo with max range and duration keeping his cataclysm up on a defense mission, or a +300% strength Slowva on a Hydron leveling run. Or maybe the people who always kill their teammates by spamming their explosives while having a rad proc on. What should I do with these people? I probably can tell them to stop doing that but what if they reply with, "I play however I want"?

Similar situation happened to me earlier, a Limbo was keeping his cataclysm + stasis on the entire time on a Hydron XP run and keeps banishing other people. I assumed the guy didn't know what he was doing, so I told them as politely as I can to stop. Well, he didn't actually say "I play however I want" or whatnot, but he didn't even say a single thing. Didn't respond, didn't stop his banish-cataclysm fun in there. Ultimately I just left the match because I couldn't handle this guy anymore, but this is honestly more of a band-aid solution to me than else.

 

What do you think?

While I believe people should have the freedom to embrace a variety of playstyles, I don't quite agree with "letting them do what they want", because I do not quite agree with the sentiment that a co-op pub game is four players players playing solo in every sense. There are most definitely lines to bee drawn, They are blurry at times, but they are there. Extreme examples would be a player joining the Eidlon Cull mission and then going off to constantly get captures (interrupting the flow of the mission) or even just sit in the corner of the map, or a Loki constantly teleporting allies to disorientate them or keep them away from objectives.  It is very rare for it to happen, but if it does, I'd first attempt to communicate with the player and inform them what they are doing is beyond the line, as they may not realize it. Should that not work, I report for griefing in-game - these players are griefing and need to be kept in check to maintain the general good-natured spirit the Warframe community has.

For cases where lines are more blurry, the support ticket + visual evidence may be the better way to go. 

You can ignore it and leave, but that just means it is someone else's problem instead of it being addressed. 

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Depends on the situation and context. Often I will just default to being friendly and helpful, in case the other person is new or unsure. or maybe even having a bad day. Uf they have a negative reaction to that, I'll usually have a apathetic/neutral response, then finish the round and then leave. I don't really get bothered much personally, and usually if there is an in game behaviour they are trying to troll with, I know an in game solution. However if they are bothering or harassing other players, I will usually address the victim/support them, check on them, and defuse the situation that way. If the harassment is bad enough I might consider recording the moment and reporting the player, but I have never had to do that.

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Given the 3 examples I would do nothing, well possibly leave. But I would never ever report them since I'd have no factual proof of them actually doing this with the intent to harm, which in return would lead to a false report, racking up negative points for me instead. If done enough time actions would then be taken against me.

Everything comes down to what the player is used to on their own, which is why I bring frames that can circumvent these types of things in those rare moments I join public games. Sure it sucks on Hydron when it happens, but remember that it is a leveling place, so frame knowledge about whatever frame they take to 30 isnt really a focus for most. You have to consider that alot of people also think that defensive frames should be played defensively and thinks that it is actually beneficial to their group members. 

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I only see players learning the game mechanics, and a lot of bodies to revive.

Most of the time, a player will state "I'm learning this X, sorry." in chat. Never had one of these "toxic" players people keep going on about. It's either a learning experience, or we're having too much fun.

I must have a different mindset. Give off good vibes. Or, something. 

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3 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

In ESO there is a designated leader of the group, that person can initiate a kick of anyone else in the group, and the others in the group vote on kicking the other person.  The groups are 4 people just like here in Warframe, the person who is being voted out does not get a vote and does not know it's happening.

And then poof they are out.

I would love to see something like this in Warframe

this would lead to way, way more trolling than the current system, if only because that would be an avenue for trolling that would be available in every single mission regardless of setups as opposed to the current state of only an incredibly minor subset of overlapping conditions even giving the chance for one player to very mildly negatively interfere with another

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52 minutes ago, ebrl said:

this would lead to way, way more trolling than the current system, if only because that would be an avenue for trolling that would be available in every single mission regardless of setups as opposed to the current state of only an incredibly minor subset of overlapping conditions even giving the chance for one player to very mildly negatively interfere with another

It takes at least 2 votes to kick someone, so two people would need to agree before hand to kick one person, and only one person can be kicked per vote.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not common in ESO for that to be a method of trolling, and Warframe is a far better community of players than ESO, so I doubt it would hardly happen at all.

The number of times you are exposed to players that are toxic or trolling is relevant to how often you play.  I didn't play for 2+ years in in all that time, I never met one toxic player.  I came back and played a little bit each week, and only met a few toxic players.  Now that I am injured and not able to work, I have been playing more, and have encountered a surprising number of toxic players or people who are trying to troll.

People can already troll in every single mission, the chances that they would use a method of kicking someone from the group when it requires at least one other vote are minimal, very.  I feel this would be a far better way to deal with those people who behave in an inappropriate way, and far better to allow the player base to police themselves.  As it stands now, the person trolling often gets into a verbal altercation with others, and that certainly isn't working at all.  I don't want to play in that type of environment, others don't either.  Kicking the offending player is a better option and perhaps, if people know if they are trolling or being toxic they will be kicked, they might behave.

The absolute best option is if DE had the required people to police everything themselves, and perm ban anyone who is purposefully being toxic.  Not that I want that, but if we are being honest this would be the best way to deal with nasty little trolls and immature people being toxic.  =)

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the easyest fix for this is playing with people that you searched for instead of randoms or just use workarounds for limbos bubble kill with abilitys they are not blocked by the rift
but since you where leveling i guess you wanted other to kill because of exp share guess you need someone that would do that for you in cases like that
spaming explosivs with rad procs how often does that happen realy or do you not read sortie modifiers like Radiationhazard
and a slow nova is not even all that bad it slows the mission down but thats it
i am more worried about people who behave like a dead brick and do next to nothing

i see it as more fun not to try to reach the most efficent way to do stuff because as soon you are there everything that is slower is only annoying because you constanly think it could go faster

well there would be a hard fix to make you search for teammates again and find people worth playing with by removeing the matchmakeing system

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My theory is people troll in the game because they don't have an outlet for it. So I had the idea of turning trolling into a game mode. Its called Co-op vs Player controlled environment. You have a regular squad of 4 co-op players vs another player that's controlling the enemies and traps that can activate on a tile set. Mobile Defense too predictable? Try the game mode. Imagine plopping a radiation cloud on top of a Mesa defending a terminal. I bet that'll spice up the mission.

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3 hours ago, AzureScion said:

Jeez so aggressive... Chill the hell out man, I meant for this to be a civil discussion. Are you perhaps one of the people who actively trolls people out? Do you feel called out?

In fact I probably shouldn't bother with you at all, you seem to be overly aggressive in every discussion you participated in.

Oh and it must be such a joy to have 3 other friends who would follow you around everywhere you go like they're your personal maid or something.

And to make it clear, I wasn't asking for an option to punish people via majority voting. I was asking what people would do if faced with similar situation. So cool your head down a bit before joining in any discussion next time cause you're just making things more intense than they should be.

 

Guy needs a drink lmao.

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3 hours ago, AzureScion said:

Jeez so aggressive... Chill the hell out man, I meant for this to be a civil discussion. Are you perhaps one of the people who actively trolls people out? Do you feel called out?

In fact I probably shouldn't bother with you at all, you seem to be overly aggressive in every discussion you participated in.

Oh and it must be such a joy to have 3 other friends who would follow you around everywhere you go like they're your personal maid or something.

And to make it clear, I wasn't asking for an option to punish people via majority voting. I was asking what people would do if faced with similar situation. So cool your head down a bit before joining in any discussion next time cause you're just making things more intense than they should be.

 

Sad you cant meet me in real life you would be surprised how calm i am
Idk where you get impression i am aggressive but well you are free to feel that way

I am solo clan owner/member and i can find 3 random ppl which will do in a mission exactly what i expect them to do yet you all ppl with clan even friends in this game cant?

I just fail to see any reason for ppl like you to have problem to begin with

I have like +/- 20 ppl online on my friend list and i dont even talk to them most they are ppl i helped the other day
Yet i dont have problem and you and likes of you have friends here use discord have clans and you guys actually talk with each other and puff you have problem making proper squad?

Im not trying to attack here you or any1 i just fail to see any excuse for you or any1 else to demand or expect to ppl behave in PUBLIC/random squad to do what you wish them to do and that was whole point of my post

 

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Ok, but if we take your example, we don't have any other bar in town, no bbq, no nothing, that is simply the only place you can go to have fun. So when you get annoyed by drunk Bob for the third time this evening, do you just sit calmly "oh well, it is what it is, I'm just gonna stay put and suffer this guy and not say a thing" ?

Back to the game, no, your "solutions" don't solve anything. 

Leaving ? Outside of the very few times where it's possible to bail at the start, when you're instead faced with the fact halfway through the game, what do you do ? Leave and get punished because of a troll, while that same troll is left perfectly fine to continue his bs ?

And what prevents me from forming a premade ? Oh I don't know, let's review what should be painfully obvious : I don't want to spend half my game time staring at recruit chat, I want to use the functionnality that allows me to start a game quickly. And it's not like if making a premade gives you any guarantee not to end up with idiots all the same. This argument is such a cop out.

Why wouldn't it be natural to expect people not to misbehave in pugs ? Why must everyone always defend the absolute scum of this game ? Why couldn't we have a way to punish those that turn pug into a ffa to begin with ?

Like in your bar example, you can sit idle and endure someone else's nonsense, or speak up against it and work toward making things better. All you people only contribute to making pugs a sheetshow, by constantly excusing what should be looked down upon.

Dont try not to turn things around

Its not only 1 bar in town
Its many BARs  in town where who you bring determines what kind of party you will have

You basically expect to go to random bar meet random ppl and all behave like you wish them to thats the same problem OP have

I dont go to a mission i am not prepared to do by myself if you go to a mission counting on your squad then you failed at the preparations

Imagine me going to eidolons as chroma only with idk BO MK1 and expecting random ppl in my squad to actually have good sniper rifle with decent riven
Wouldnt that sound stupid if i come cry here that my squad mates should be punished because they came unprepared? Well i was i did bring chroma to buff them

And neither me nor any1 else in this forum will defend idiots trust me we are far from it
We just dont want to idiots to have means of punishing others like constantly returning topic of kick vote
I would not go to ranom squad without 1 friend who would prevent so A hole from kicking me out of the mission just because he feels like it
Even better then i would kick any idiot that brings slow nova wisp with shock mote inaros or frost with snow globe to defense
Just because they would waste my time which could be done faster if they would not be there

We are going to get recruit table or whatever it will be at maroo bazar where you can list your clan is recruiting and then someone interest will contact you and you can decide do you want that person in your clan or no
Imagine if it was that any1 seeing that your clan is recruiting could join it at will
Where
1 You listed your clan at your own will
2 You know any1 could join it even idiot
And you come here complaining idiots are joining your clan and system is faulty demanding a better system
Yeah better system would be nice but imagine how stupid u would look for using what we have knowing it flaws and crying about it

Maybe if you spent more times playing the game and not making posts on forum you would understand more

And i would not go for long mission with random ppl where i would expect my squad to do something that requires brain
So there is your answer

We can talk and argue all day and get nothing out of it

Now imagine there is kick vote in game
Would you wish to land in random squad with me or ppl like me? I would kick you from my squad just for not understanding basic idea behind why we should not have means to punish others even if you would be properly prepared for mission

And you talk about better system that dont put us in squads with ppl that misbehave? Plz explain how that system would work and how it would filter idiots? I mean before they could be classified as idiots before they took any action that would indicate that

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