What do you think would be the proper way to deal with trolls in public rooms

[Krankbert]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ZeroX4:

 

• I would kick any1 for just doing something i consider stupid or just for fun

Talking to people on this forum really feels as if Warframe is the only game they ever played. It's most obvious when talking about nerfs, but the way a votekick function keeps being discussed as if it was some novel unproven idea is a close second.

[0_The_F00l]

3 hours ago, Keiyadan said:

the more custom the matchmakeing gets it would be less likly to find any groups the simple solution to the problem would be put in some effort to find people in the game that you want to play with or agree to use specific items but if you go in random you get random

the more you have to filter your teammates by yourself the more you likely rember the ones that are fun to play with

That depends on the type of filtering and prioritisation. If it's an exclusive filter then yeah the pool would be small (still infinitely more likely than solo though) if it's an inclusive filter with priority it would be having a fair chance to pair you.

I also don't have infinite time to wait for someone in recruit chat and keep pasting "looking for fun group that is trying to do something similar to me" repeatedly, I would rather set my preferences up and let other people join me or let me join them as I keep playing the game.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Simple solution, play solo.

You can expect a PUB match to play how you want to play. Make a pre-made group if it bothers you that much.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-09-06 at 6:21 AM, Fallen77 said:

you just expect people to at least do the very minimum not to be a pain to play with, but not in this game !

The thing is man this is a solo oriented game. The problem is there’s three other solo players on the same tilset. Unless every Warframe power gets reworked to be co-op nothings gonna fix this Reoccurring situation.

[RazerXPrime]

Best way to go about it is either play solo or accept the fact that there's other players that do their own thing.

If someone actively trolls, which sometimes is kind of hard to check. I mean, I wouldn't call an electric mote in a sortie defense as someone mentioned "actively trolling". But people are full of their own way of playing that they can't be arsed to accept how others play the game. If you can't handle how others play the game, the most civil thing is to leave and not bother those people with your ethics. But someone who actively trolls can be reported. Although I probably wouldn't do it unless it really hampers the game. Like make it nearly impossible to complete the mission for instance.

I like the insane rant here from the guy who's afraid of drunk people. Need more of that.

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The thing is man this is a solo oriented game. The problem is there’s three other solo players on the same tilset. Unless every Warframe power gets reworked to be co-op nothings gonna fix this Reoccurring situation.

This might be beneficial or detrimental to the experience. If you actively have to work together this improves the fun for premades a lot, but with randoms this is probably just going to make matters worse. At least now you can solo the mission if the others goof around. I don't play with randoms often, but when I do I choose to solo the mission. Can't depend on others to do certain things.

I've played League of Legends for many many years. Compared to that game, this game has no trolls.

[Fallen77]

il y a 1 minute, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 a dit :

The thing is man this is a solo oriented game. The problem is there’s three other solo players on the same tilset. Unless every Warframe power gets reworked to be co-op nothings gonna fix this Reoccurring situation.

We play together and we have the ability to impact each other's progress, so I don't care how you wanna qualify this game, we should still expect random people to not screw us. And we should certainly not be excusing sheety behaviour that very much impact us on the sole basis that the coop aspect is lighter than in other games.

Your argument is just an empty cop out to excuse the worst that this community has to offer.

And do you think that people say this is a solo game because the coop aspect is light, or because so many people have been driven away from pugs by those sheety behaviour that we keep excusing for some nonsense reason ? I'd bet the latter is the bigger factor here.

Because outside of a few outlier cases, going solo is nothing but a net deficit, not exactly what I'd call a solo oriented game.

If only we had any limited way to police ourselves, maybe we could make pugs a bit more livable. But none of this is gonna happen as long as people come up with nonsense excuse after nonsense excuse in favor of the scum of the scum of this community.

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, Krankbert said:

Talking to people on this forum really feels as if Warframe is the only game they ever played. It's most obvious when talking about nerfs, but the way a votekick function keeps being discussed as if it was some novel unproven idea is a close second.

I mean i abused it in all games that i played that had it so i just described that how i would do exact same thing in warframe as in other games

Its like dislike button on youtube its not there for fun its there for us to actually use it

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Fallen77 said:

We play together and we have the ability to impact each other's progress, so I don't care how you wanna qualify this game, we should still expect random people to not screw us.

Why?

Why should you/we expect other people to follow our unspoken rules?

I think you have a lot to learn about the world if you really think you should expect other random humans to dance to your tune.

Most of what is brought up here is not even bad behavior, it is literally full of complaints from control freaks that think the pixels on the screen should act like NPCs that get the complaining players more rewards, faster.

A bad player is not a troll. A player that uses powers you don't like is not a troll. A player learning teh ropes and hitting powers that don't help get more rewards is not a troll.

There are always going to be people that do not want to play games the way you do, ignore them and move on with life, there is nothing else to do.

Any system added will simply move the focus of the control freak rage to another aspect of others they are unable to control.

Even if the game encouraged teaming more, there will always be people who want to play in a manner that does not agree with the control freaks that actually believe they are 'helping' by dictating these unspoken rules.

People have argued over this topic in every multiplayer game I have encountered in my 30+ years of gaming.

It cannot be fixed with code. Human behavior is not something a gaming group for a single game will ever change so that everyone plays a game the same way.

It has nothing to do with a cop-out and everything to do with accepting that not everyone lives life the same way, especially when one is looking to use any 'slight' they perceive as 'trolling'.

[ZeroX4]

5 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Why?

Why should you/we expect other people to follow our unspoken rules?

I think you have a lot to learn about the world if you really think you should expect other random humans to dance to your tune.

Most of what is brought up here is not even bad behavior, it is literally full of complaints from control freaks that think the pixels on the screen should act like NPCs that get the complaining players more rewards, faster.

A bad player is not a troll. A player that uses powers you don't like is not a troll. A player learning teh ropes and hitting powers that don't help get more rewards is not a troll.

There are always going to be people that do not want to play games the way you do, ignore them and move on with life, there is nothing else to do.

Any system added will simply move the focus of the control freak rage to another aspect of others they are unable to control.

Even if the game encouraged teaming more, there will always be people who want to play in a manner that does not agree with the control freaks that actually believe they are 'helping' by dictating these unspoken rules.

People have argued over this topic in every multiplayer game I have encountered in my 30+ years of gaming.

It cannot be fixed with code. Human behavior is not something a gaming group for a single game will ever change so that everyone plays a game the same way.

It has nothing to do with a cop-out and everything to do with accepting that not everyone lives life the same way, especially when one is looking to use any 'slight' they perceive as 'trolling'.

Why so few ppl understands this?
 

17 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

We play together and we have the ability to impact each other's progress, so I don't care how you wanna qualify this game, we should still expect random people to not screw us. And we should certainly not be excusing sheety behaviour that very much impact us on the sole basis that the coop aspect is lighter than in other games.

Your argument is just an empty cop out to excuse the worst that this community has to offer.

And do you think that people say this is a solo game because the coop aspect is light, or because so many people have been driven away from pugs by those sheety behaviour that we keep excusing for some nonsense reason ? I'd bet the latter is the bigger factor here.

Because outside of a few outlier cases, going solo is nothing but a net deficit, not exactly what I'd call a solo oriented game.

If only we had any limited way to police ourselves, maybe we could make pugs a bit more livable. But none of this is gonna happen as long as people come up with nonsense excuse after nonsense excuse in favor of the scum of the scum of this community.

Whenever there is radiation hazard on sortie i dont care what mission objective is i dont care do i play with someone i know or do my squad mates are MR1 or L1
My objective is to kill them i can carry mission alone even while killing them constantly and my squad mates can report me for that i fully understand it
But imagine how stupid they would look reporting me for using functionality that game provides me with?

Like i bet most common response from support would be "What? You didnt read its radiation hazard before starting mission? You want to tell us you went to a mission not being prepared?"

And what you and ppl like you asks here is
A - For ppl like me not to kill others just because you feel like it
B - For other to help your squad to finish the mission instead of killing you all

How about maybe just maybe i have also some expectations?
A - Whenever you are in my LoS in radiation hazard you die as fast as possible
B - Report me for using in game function that game allows me to use and cry like a baby

What you can expect something from other players and i dont?
I know it never happen but my eternal dream since i encountered it on sortie is to have radiation hazard on every single mission i join

So can we all have some expectations from other players or is it reserved to ppl that think they are only ones with that right since well they say so?

Would you really wish giving some rights to others and at the same time expecting something from them?
Because seems ppl like you did not really think it trough

Its like on this forum look how friendly place it would be if we could limit some users ability to post?
But then would we expect them to behave like we want them or are we restrict them to our needs?

Imagine if we would have down vote system where we could down vote stupid posts to the point forum user would not be able to post something for a week
Imagine your posts getting that kind of attention since it would need to apply to everyone on this forum

Wouldnt it be cool?

I would for sure subscribe to you just to prove to you how cool of a system it can be ;)

[Fallen77]

il y a 4 minutes, Zimzala a dit :

Why?

Why should you/we expect other people to follow our unspoken rules?

I think you have a lot to learn about the world if you really think you should expect other random humans to dance to your tune.

Most of what is brought up here is not even bad behavior, it is literally full of complaints from control freaks that think the pixels on the screen should act like NPCs that get the complaining players more rewards, faster.

A bad player is not a troll. A player that uses powers you don't like is not a troll. A player learning teh ropes and hitting powers that don't help get more rewards is not a troll.

There are always going to be people that do not want to play games the way you do, ignore them and move on with life, there is nothing else to do.

Any system added will simply move the focus of the control freak rage to another aspect of others they are unable to control.

Even if the game encouraged teaming more, there will always be people who want to play in a manner that does not agree with the control freaks that actually believe they are 'helping' by dictating these unspoken rules.

People have argued over this topic in every multiplayer game I have encountered in my 30+ years of gaming.

It cannot be fixed with code. Human behavior is not something a gaming group for a single game will ever change so that everyone plays a game the same way.

It has nothing to do with a cop-out and everything to do with accepting that not everyone lives life the same way, especially when one is looking to use any 'slight' they perceive as 'trolling'.

Have I talked about punishing a wisp because of an electric mote or something ?

Yeah, that's what I thought, not at all. 

I assumed that it would have been clear that by "sheety behaviour" and such, I was talking about ACTUAL trolls, leechers, afk, all that kind of good stuff that people just excuse and tell you to leave and go recruit, effectively telling you that you are punished for the existence of those people. And as long as we keep excusing them, DE is never gonna give us countermeasures against them.

Would be easy, a once per player and per day kickvote that requires unanimity from all other squadmates. Sure, a noob or two might get kicked from a mission they had no business being in here and there, but we could also kick every single problem player ourselves, instead of relying on a report system that's never gonna accumulate many enough reports in several lifetimes.

And let's be clear, there's being limbo in hydron, and being limbo in hydron. One is a poor noob that might get some flak, but the other is a full on troll, and we are completely defenseless against that. Don't get me wrong, I will abort regardless, but that specifically is on me. I will put every single electric mote wisp that refuses to switch into a host migration if I get the chance, but that's completely remote from my point in this thread.

There are idiots on both sides of the fence, so yes, many people call out troll and whatever else for no reason, it is a thing. But reading you, it feels like problem players don't exist at all, when they very much do, a lot. And that's what I'm advocating against.

[Nira]

If they're obnoxious, they go on the ignore list.

If they're persistently and deliberately impacting others' gameplay in a negative fashion they get reported and ignored.

Works for me!

[Fallen77]

il y a 2 minutes, ZeroX4 a dit :

Why so few ppl understands this?
 

Whenever there is radiation hazard on sortie i dont care what mission objective is i dont care do i play with someone i know or do my squad mates are MR1 or L1
My objective is to kill them i can carry mission alone even while killing them constantly and my squad mates can report me for that i fully understand it
But imagine how stupid they would look reporting me for using functionality that game provides me with?

Like i bet most common response from support would be "What? You didnt read its radiation hazard before starting mission? You want to tell us you went to a mission not being prepared?"

And what you and ppl like you asks here is
A - For ppl like me not to kill others just because you feel like it
B - For other to help your squad to finish the mission instead of killing you all

How about maybe just maybe i have also some expectations?
A - Whenever you are in my LoS in radiation hazard you die as fast as possible
B - Report me for using in game function that game allows me to use and cry like a baby

What you can expect something from other players and i dont?
I know it never happen but my eternal dream since i encountered it on sortie is to have radiation hazard on every single mission i join

So can we all have some expectations from other players or is it reserved to ppl that think they are only ones with that right since well they say so?

Would you really wish giving some rights to others and at the same time expecting something from them?
Because seems ppl like you did not really think it trough

Its like on this forum look how friendly place it would be if we could limit some users ability to post?
But then would we expect them to behave like we want them or are we restrict them to our needs?

Imagine if we would have down vote system where we could down vote stupid posts to the point forum user would not be able to post something for a week
Imagine your posts getting that kind of attention since it would need to apply to everyone on this forum

Wouldnt it be cool?

I would for sure subscribe to you just to prove to you how cool of a system it can be ;)

You're talking nonsense again, you might want to use your brain a tad more.

In many games, there is friendly fire by default, but if you go out of your way to teamkill, you will get banned, end of discussion. This was an extremely idiotic argument.

For the forum, you will get banned if you talk out of line, that's it, it wouldn't be a novelty, and I'm asking for the same principle in game. And we had sortof a downvote system here before. You couldn't get banned for it, but that would have shown you the errors of your way.

You're getting the short version because I've clearly seen how you handle every thread you join, and I'm not wasting any more time on someone that only wish to throw buzz words and half arsed arguments in the hope of getting a reaction.

[NotGustavoM]

Randoms are called randoms for a reason -- don't expect any sort of teamwork. With that said... you either stop playing with randoms and get into a dojo or deal with it.

[Zimzala]

45 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

There are idiots on both sides of the fence, so yes, many people call out troll and whatever else for no reason, it is a thing. But reading you, it feels like problem players don't exist at all, when they very much do, a lot. And that's what I'm advocating against.

I never implied, ever, that these players do not exist, I cannot fathom how you could read what I wrote that badly, TBH.

The reality is that they do exist, will continue to exist, and that no game code will ever prevent them from interacting with other players in an effective manner, because human nature is the issue, not game code.

ANY system can and will be gamed by bad actors, even a vote kick system with limits, etc.

If you encounter a player with whom you do not want to play, move on, that's the only real option.

Game makers have been trying unsuccessfully to deal with players that actively troll other players since these games have existed, no one has found a magic button. If you really, really think you can create that magic button, I am sure you could make bank by providing the implementation of said magic button to many SaaS games.

You can tilt these windmills until the heat death of the universe, but unless you find a way to fundamentally change human nature, you are going to have to deal with people that choose to play games differently than you do.

[Fallen77]

à l’instant, Zimzala a dit :

I never implied, ever, that these players do not exist, I cannot fathom how you could read what I wrote that badly, TBH.

The reality is that they do exist, will continue to exist, and that no game code will ever prevent them from interacting with other players in an effective manner, because human nature is the issue, not game code.

ANY system can and will be gamed by bad actors, even a vote kick system with limits, etc.

If you encounter a player with whom you do not want to play, move on, that's the only real option.

Game makers have been trying unsuccessfully to deal with players that actively troll other players since these games have existed, no one has found a magic button. If you really, really think you can create that magic button, I am sure you could make bank by providing the implementation of said magic button to many SaaS games.

You can tilt these windmills until the heat death of the universe, but unless you find a way to fundamentally change human nature, you are going to have to deal with people that choose to play games differently than you do.

I'm just gonna say this, because you seem half decent.

Reset : I was never talking about "people that don't play the way I do". And I did not mean to imply that you said trolls don't exist, it's just that it's all you were talking about, which couldn't have been further away from what I was talking about.

Now, trolls and co. Yes, like in countless other games, you can give tools to the players to deal with them. They would still exist, but they would be kicked out. You may not like those systems, but they work a hell lot better than just giving up and leaving free reign to the troublemakers.

The system I'm suggesting is very tough to abuse, even in the hands of trolls, the people using it for wrong reasons would have a very limited power, and abusive use could be tracked down and punished as well. 

And to make it triply clear, as long as they're not being willingly disruptive, I don't care about people playing in weird ways, that never was what I wanted to deal with. THERE and only there, if I dislike someone else's playstyle, I will leave and leave it at that, because only there does it make sense for me to be "punished".

But when it's an ACTUAL troll/afk/leech, then it doesn't make any sense to be punished just to avoid a troublemaker.

And if people like you would stop advocating for being docile and leaving such behaviours unchecked, we might make the game better. And if you can't understand that, then I trully have nothing to add, you're beyond any form of reason that I could comprehend.

[Zimzala]

3 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

And if people like you would stop advocating for being docile and leaving such behaviours unchecked, we might make the game better. And if you can't understand that, then I trully have nothing to add, you're beyond any form of reason that I could comprehend.

What I am saying is that none of the current tools SaaS games have implemented solves the problem.

Therefore, where is the ROI in implementing a system or multiple layers of systems?

It's not about being docile, that's testosterone talking IMO.

It's about understanding the limits of game code to impact human nature.

This game does not give a lot of tools to avoid players, I totally agree, but I would prefer a much, much more straightforward solution that does not allow people to game others - a better ignore list.

If we could just ignore other users, not just in chat, but a real ignore that prevents further teaming, I would actually join random groups.

The only option one has as a human is to use the tools available to ignore people with whom you do not want to play - for whatever reason.

We will not change these people, they have existed since there have been people, there is no game code that can change their behavior, it is wired into the human condition, so just ignore them.

If you really think you can change fundamental human nature, go get your Nobel Peace Prize with your ideas.

[Skaleek]

9 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

No it's not.

100% is. Anonymous people will always do what they want to do and you are powerless to do anything but accept it, or change your situation. You're deluded if you think otherwise. The only thing that can change is by adding incentives to do the "right" thing, but even then, some people just want to see the world burn.

[Quimoth]

Your focus should always be on things you CAN control.

You can't control the guy who is trolling.

You shouldn't be allowed to kick, this will only introduce more types of trolling.

You can always leave the squad.

The only sensible implementation I've seen in a long time is to further extend upon the squad system open-worlds use. One should be able to leave a squad without aborting the mission.

This would then probably be subject to outcries to allow for better host-migrations and squad building in general and if anything this is some far future music that we might see after cross-platform is in a stable state (or perhaps as part of the cross-platform patch in order to combat stability issues and what not)

TL;DR;

You can only control your own actions, so stop being frustrated by those that you think are working against you and make your own move. (leave the squad)

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, vanaukas said:

I'm saying this because if someone plays stonned, doesn't mean it won't perfom well in a game or anything, all depends on the user and the consumption rate of that user.

Though that isnt what I'm talking about. I'm talking about stoned people that actually act as if they are stoned and the performace of them takes a dive. People react differently to things, but I'm talking about actually stoned and drunk people, not "what if?" cases. I for instance can perform fully functional when I'm on pain medication morphine substances, I just dont feel it at all. I have relatives and friends that cant even get out of bed with the same dose in their body. The worst part for me after morphine is that my stumache acts like I've eaten a full cart of imodium.

My point from my first post which the other guy also completely missed is that it is about people under the influence to the point where they negatively impact those they play with and waste their time. I dont care if someone pots or drinks if they can control it, I care when they cant and it impacts others. It isnt an attack on alcohol or drug usage overall. Heck I've known people that have walked and talked normaly while their blood alcohol level has been so high they should have really been dead because they've been on a lenghty bender and increased their tolerance. And I know people that get drunk as skunks from a few high alcohol beers or a few glasses of wine.

[Xantelian]

On 2021-09-06 at 12:21 PM, Fallen77 said:

Imagine this in a moba : "don't be a bully, if xxkevinxx wants to be a fourth dps and dive the towers before a single creep gets there, it's his god given right and you shouldn't ever say anything about it !"

Except you are conveniently brushing aside one important detail. This isn't a competitive PvP game. It's a PvE horde shooter. It's not even comparable. 

[Krankbert]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Xantelian:

Except you are conveniently brushing aside one important detail. This isn't a competitive PvP game. It's a PvE horde shooter. It's not even comparable. 

What's the difference?

[Joezone619]

An interesting problem. Sure the support team has a guide to handle it but with how many players the cross-save,crossplay, mobile game update will bring it, its fair to say they may get overloaded and might be woefully unprepared for that. We saw what happened on the tennocon relay when the games CURRENT player count tried to join and it crashed.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb ZeroX4:

Just so you understand
Game Mode is called DEFENSE and i think that is biggest lie of warframe right after crossfire mission types
It should be called defensive extermination

You see if you bring limbo into def and you hide target from enemies (which means you are at 100% defense efficiency) you wont win because real objective is to exterminate enemies while defending the target

Now imagine me coming to fed as mesa and time of a round is determined by how fast enemies can reach my bullets
And there comes you with your shock mote which is staggering (in most cases) enemies trough walls/floors and so we waste more time on a round which could last like idk 30 sec less? Yeah its not much but consider at least 5 rounds for single defense mission and consider you are not doing 1 defense mission per day
Now do you get whats the core problem here?

Another example is vauban i love vauban i wont lie but if i see one spaming vortex on def mission that just kills it for me and i quit squad
And trust me you are lucky if you get vauban which kills enemies stuck in walls by his vortex and well only owner of that vauban with vortex can see damage taken by enemies so if you dont use level map you most likely will spent more time looking where enemies got stuck in the 1st place

And if you still dont understand the problem well then maybe after you will make defense mission for 1000x time maybe you start to value your time more
Its not like i or any1 else need to rush everything we just want to play the game do different mission complete one objective and move to next one and not waste our time when we know it can be done faster
And if you dont feel like that yet just keep playing trust me at some point you will

I completely understand that people have the need to max/minimize on a 3 hour SE mission or whatever, but honestly, if I choose Wisp on a 5 wave defense mission, you will waste more time finding a new group. But I think I will test that with my clanmates. Thanks for the hint.

[ZeroX4]

4 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

I completely understand that people have the need to max/minimize on a 3 hour SE mission or whatever, but honestly, if I choose Wisp on a 5 wave defense mission, you will waste more time finding a new group. But I think I will test that with my clanmates. Thanks for the hint.

Find someone with baruuk with this build which is awesome for SP def


And go with that person and 2 other random ppl that will most likely run around map
Even with short range on your wisp remember if player already have shock mote on him self it have set range anyway and can stagger enemies that are far away from reach of damage dealer

Im not offending you here just trying to explain
That is the problem with players we have in warframe
They only see their point of view and from that we have most of our problems here
I wish for you that you never will need to experience that 1st hand

[(PSN)AbyssalGladious]

8 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

 

• I would kick any1 for just doing something i consider stupid or just for fun

kicking people is can be used as a troll it self like say
you have a night wave challenge to stay in a survival for 30 minutes and then at the 29:50 mark you just get kicked for existing 
many people in warframe would do that i mean there are people that have booted me for selling ingis wraith for 5p so yeah anything is possible