Can nyx get a rework pls

[Siva503]

Nyx is pretty much trash at this point, there are so many frames and the game has power creeped her into worst frame status.
Her first ability (Mind control) is a joke it pretty much lobotomizes an enemy of your choosing, they don't really shoot or do anything most of the time because its code hasn't been updated since 2014.
Her second ability (Psychic bolts) is alright, but in a viral + slash meta its not very useful, we already ignore defenses and its not worth building around so I can run pure damage instead of viral + slash
Her third ability's (Chaos) cast time is just slightly too long for me to want to actually use it but that's personal preference so I don't really count it as a reason, but its practically pocket radiation which is fine but seriously revenant's first ability makes chaos and mind control look like trash in comparison because his ability actually works and spreads on its own without an augment
Her fourth ability (Absorb) is pretty much just a health gate, once again an ability outshined by revenant because Mesmer skin is a much better defensive ability that actually combo's into revenant's kit

Her passive (enemies are 20% less accurate when targeting Nyx) isn't a game changer by any means, you pretty much never notice it and there's no real way to build around it or work with it.

Nyx is mostly just a worse off revenant, which is kind of depressing since she has so much more CC potential. She's still fun to play in my opinion because she doesn't insta clear the map and she isn't completely invincible but also she's not squishy really. Nyx is the only frame I've played that benefits from playing with real skill and finesse and while I'd Love a buff or rework on her, I'd like it done in a way that doesn't suck her into meta. Building on her battlefield control aspects would be awesome because Chaos isn't carrying as hard as it needs to, and maybe something to scale her damage up a little bit since we don't typically build for high strength on her so we can't really helminth on a damage ability and make it work well

As it stands Nyx is seen as a quick mastery grab and for weapons and companions that would be fine but for an entire warframe it feels pretty sucky especially since we have to wait 3 and a half days to make her. She could definitely use some changes because revenant can pretty much do everything Nyx can but better; its fine to have niche frames preform better in their area of niche than other frames but to have a frame just blatantly be better than another in every way isn't good. I already know some people are gonna point out that revenant doesn't instantly remove all defenses but I'm not gonna lie that's about all she's got going for her and dooming her to Psychic bolts is a fate worse than Loki 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Players are trash, which makes any frame look like trash.

Most people agree her 1 could use some updating, but every frame isn't meant to be used by everyone.

[Siva503]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Players are trash, which makes any frame look like trash.

Most people agree her 1 could use some updating, but every frame isn't meant to be used by everyone.

yeah but theres a bit of a difference between skill gap and the frame just sucking lol

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Siva503 said:

yeah but theres a bit of a difference between skill gap and the frame just sucking lol

Considering Nyx's kit hasn't changed much in years, and at one point she was considered top tier I would say "the frame just sucking" is pretty irrelevant. Nyx is a solid frame but her kit is overshadowed by the super-powered reworks that were done to Saryn, Ember, Xaku etc. 

Nyx is perfectly viable in Steel Path. If you're going to complain about a frame pick one that is actually bad. Nyx having a somewhat boring kit does not mean she is bad... her CC is very strong, her ability to fully strip armor+shields is very strong, her ability to pull agro with her 1 is useful, and her 4 (with augment) is extremely effective defense. 

[Xolgys]

there are a lot of frames in need of a rework right now, or at least a meaningful update and that has nothing to do with "player skill".

excusing poorly aged frames/things and meaningless changes in the past by blaming players is the easiest way to make things worse as time goes by. ignoring standing issues doesnt solve them.

i think instead of releasing new frames so very often some time should be invested to improve the poorly aged frames that are in dire need of help right now. valkyr getting a new deluxe would be a chance to help her too, just to name one other example.

[Siva503]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Considering Nyx's kit hasn't changed much in years, and at one point she was considered top tier I would say "the frame just sucking" is pretty irrelevant. Nyx is a solid frame but her kit is overshadowed by the super-powered reworks that were done to Saryn, Ember, Xaku etc. 

Nyx is perfectly viable in Steel Path. If you're going to complain about a frame pick one that is actually bad. Nyx having a somewhat boring kit does not mean she is bad... her CC is very strong, her ability to fully strip armor+shields is very strong, her ability to pull agro with her 1 is useful, and her 4 (with augment) is extremely effective defense. 

tbh every frame is viable in steel path, I need an actual reason to pick them though. Also being a top tier pick years ago doesn't really hold up as an argument because things change over time and something thats good around 6-7 years ago most likely won't be good still if left unchanged. As for complaining about frames that are actually bad, I literally can't think of a frame worse off than nyx

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 hour ago, Siva503 said:

Nyx is pretty much trash at this point, 

Funny, I've seen oodles of people saying she's in a decent spot, especially for SP. This sounds like a you problem.

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

tbh every frame is viable in steel path, I need an actual reason to pick them though. Also being a top tier pick years ago doesn't really hold up as an argument because things change over time and something thats good around 6-7 years ago most likely won't be good still if left unchanged. As for complaining about frames that are actually bad, I literally can't think of a frame worse off than nyx

If you can't think of a frame worse than nyx then I dunno what to tell you. I mean, without question yareli is worse. And off the top of my head, Hydroid is worse, Banshee is worse (though sonar is excellent), Trinity is about on-par IMO, Oberon is about on-par, Atlas is on-par, Ash is on-par, Frost is on-par or worse. 

[Siva503]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Skippy575 said:

Funny, I've seen oodles of people saying she's in a decent spot, especially for SP. This sounds like a you problem.

I've also seen 'oodles' of people say that there's no real point in playing her because there isn't a thing she does that another frame does better.

[Leqesai]

Just now, Siva503 said:

I've also seen 'oodles' of people say that there's no real point in playing her because there isn't a thing she does that another frame does better.

She strips armor+shields better than other frames but okay. The only frame that does full armor+shield strip better is Xaku.

[Xolgys]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Leqesai:

She strips armor+shields better than other frames but okay. The only frame that does full armor+shield strip better is Xaku.

and its absolutely meaningless due to how it works and is limited. we also melt lvl 300+ SP enemies and its more important to stay alive and group enemies up/keep killspeed up.

theres no real argument to be made about it just because it can trivialize enemies defenses when we can delete them either way. its the same issue with her 4: why potentially drain ur own energy faster than u can blink when there are enough ways to survive independent of frame choice.

[Siva503]

Just now, Leqesai said:

If you can't think of a frame worse than nyx then I dunno what to tell you. I mean, without question yareli is worse. And off the top of my head, Hydroid is worse, Banshee is worse (though sonar is excellent), Trinity is about on-par IMO, Oberon is about on-par, Atlas is on-par, Ash is on-par, Frost is on-par or worse. 

true, I forgot about yareli, honestly they just need to replace her entirely, idk how they could fix that nightmare of a frame. and yeah hydroid and banshee def need something, but we're still talking bottom of the barrel here. Nyx is behind them in line but still near the front without a doubt

[Siva503]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

She strips armor+shields better than other frames but okay. The only frame that does full armor+shield strip better is Xaku.

ya kinda proved my point in the same comment with this one. Nyx's shining ability to strip armor and shields is once again outshined by another frame. 

[Xolgys]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Leqesai:

If you can't think of a frame worse than nyx then I dunno what to tell you. I mean, without question yareli is worse. And off the top of my head, Hydroid is worse, Banshee is worse (though sonar is excellent), Trinity is about on-par IMO, Oberon is about on-par, Atlas is on-par, Ash is on-par, Frost is on-par or worse. 

ash is in a better and more relevant spot than all of them and especially than who he was compared with for a long time: loki

ash is no way close to the level at which u would say he could use a rework/update. his build options and access to invis are quite good and the damage and scaling of blade storm make him a great melee/invis frame.  hes certainly in a better spot than all the frames u mentioned. the only buff i could think of would be a bit more duration on his invis since all it means is pressing the button more or less often and mana cost.

[Siva503]

8 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

If you can't think of a frame worse than nyx then I dunno what to tell you. I mean, without question yareli is worse. And off the top of my head, Hydroid is worse, Banshee is worse (though sonar is excellent), Trinity is about on-par IMO, Oberon is about on-par, Atlas is on-par, Ash is on-par, Frost is on-par or worse. 

also Trinity and Oberon are doing pretty good rn I'd say. Atlas can run a stat stick build and be really good, Ash can also stat stick to be pretty good. Frost is in a rough spot but you can still build him to be extremely useful, but I would like to see a couple of his abilities changed.

[Xolgys]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Siva503:

also Trinity and Oberon are doing pretty good rn I'd say. Atlas can run a stat stick build and be really good, Ash can also stat stick to be pretty good. Frost is in a rough spot but you can still build him to be extremely useful, but I would like to see a couple of his abilities changed.

sadly i have to disagree here.

because Wisp.

reservoires alone does a better job than trinity and oberon and thats just her 1.

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

ash is in a better and more relevant spot than all of them and especially than who he was compared with for a long time: loki

ash is no way close to the level at which u would say he could use a rework/update. his build options and access to invis are quite good and the damage and scaling of blade storm make him a great melee/invis frame.  hes certainly in a better spot than all the frames u mentioned. the only buff i could think of would be a bit more duration on his invis since all it means is pressing the button more or less often and mana cost.

I didn't say Ash needs a rework. I like Ash but to say he is better/stronger than Nyx is silly. They are both strong frames but they're pretty much on-par IMO. They're not an exact comparison though because ash is a damage + stealth frame and Nyx is a debuff + CC frame. Ash is better solo but Nyx is much more useful on a team. Especially since the weapon meta has grown to the point where any frame can pretty much nuke everything without thinking.

 

7 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

ya kinda proved my point in the same comment with this one. Nyx's shining ability to strip armor and shields is once again outshined by another frame. 

No... The fact that only Xaku (who is one of the strongest frames in the game) is able to strip armor+shields better than Nyx is absolutely not reinforcing your idea that Nyx is a bad frame... 

[Siva503]

Just now, Xydeth said:

sadly i have to disagree here.

because Wisp

idk I've seen oberon have wayyyyy stronger healing. Trinity has really good energy generation so I feel like they both go off in their own directions to make them different from wisp

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

also Trinity and Oberon are doing pretty good rn I'd say. Atlas can run a stat stick build and be really good, Ash can also stat stick to be pretty good. Frost is in a rough spot but you can still build him to be extremely useful, but I would like to see a couple of his abilities changed.

[Siva503]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

No... The fact that only Xaku (who is one of the strongest frames in the game) is able to strip armor+shields better than Nyx is absolutely not reinforcing your idea that Nyx is a bad frame... 

I mean she needs to be able to do something special or I'd just pick a more relevant frame. There's no real point in holding on to Nyx if I can just have Xaku instead. If she was cheaper to build, like not needing an augment for her 4 then it'd be reasonable to take her over xaku for newer players. 

[Siva503]

5 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

good argument 

[Xolgys]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Leqesai:

I didn't say Ash needs a rework. I like Ash but to say he is better/stronger than Nyx is silly. They are both strong frames but they're pretty much on-par IMO.

 

i hope this is a joke. if u really think that then i really wonder why i even started discussing here.

i mean...a frame that can cause mass death without allowing the enemy to even answer it outside of nullies hardly compares to a frame that can stay alive a bit with CC and her 4 thats also a hindrance in quite many situations and has 2-3 arguably totally useless abilities at some point and a passive thats not better at all.

explain to me how ash compares to that ? ash does not even need a weapon for the majority of the content. use nyx without a weapon in a game about mass slaughter. there are surely other frames which need a weapon, but they offer things, meaningful and good things to complement the loadout. nyx's one good ability still has downsides. it could be great and meaningfu, but the way it works its just not too relevant to be an argument since with other frames u can still melt enemies SP surv after an hour and more. chaos also could be great but as a pure CC ability its mostly a hindrance. if nyx was as good as u try to make her then why is there nothing where u could say "THIS is a job for nyx". there is no situation where u wouldnt be better off with another frame.

i would even take yareli or hydroid over nyx right now. yes, yareli.

  

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Siva503:

idk I've seen oberon have wayyyyy stronger healing. Trinity has really good energy generation so I feel like they both go off in their own directions to make them different from wisp

we have plenty means to refill energy. its overrated even though nice to have. u have to remember though: wisp 1 overall does a better job healing allies, CCing and also speeding up than oberon and trinity and thats just her 1. its only her 1 that kinda makes oberon's and trinity's kit nearly irrelevant.

[Leqesai]

Just now, Siva503 said:

good argument 

Arguments have already been presented to you. I suggest going back up, reading them again and evaluating your perspective a little more objectively.

 

1 minute ago, Siva503 said:

I mean she needs to be able to do something special or I'd just pick a more relevant frame. There's no real point in holding on to Nyx if I can just have Xaku instead.

Chaos fully shuts down all auras of eximus units, ancients etc.
Psychic Bolts fully removes defenses (only one other frame does this and that frame cannot do what chaos does)
Mind Control can steal eximus auras and apply them to you/the team (mind controlled ancients for example give you 90% additional damage reduction)
Absorb literally makes a god-mode bubble that no other frame is able to replicate.

You may not understand how to play the frame effectively, or have some kind of weird bias against Nyx, but you really should learn the frame better. If you had more experience with her I don't think you'd ever make such a silly statement as, "She needs to be able to do something special."

1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

i hope this is a joke. if u really think that then i really wonder why i even started discussing here.

i mean...a frame that can cause mass death without allowing the enemy to even answer it outside of nullies hardly compares to a frame that can stay alive a bit with CC and her 4 thats also a hindrance in quite many situations and has 2-3 arguably totally useless abilities at some point and a passive thats not better at all.

explain to me how ash compares to that ? ash does not even need a weapon for the majority of the content. use nyx without a weapon in a game about mass slaughter. there are surely other frames which need a weapon, but they offer things, meaningful and good things to complement the loadout. nyx's one good ability still has downsides. it could be great and meaningfu, but the way it works its just not too relevant to be an argument since with other frames u can still melt enemies SP surv after an hour and more. chaos also could be great but as a pure CC ability its mostly a hindrance. if nyx was as good as u try to make her then why is there nothing where u could say "THIS is a job for nyx". there is no situation where u wouldnt be better off with another frame.

i would even take yareli or hydroid over nyx right now. yes, yareli.

You're funny, my dude.

You seem to be under the false impression that I am saying Nyx is top tier or something. I am saying she is not bottom tier. Ash is also not top tier. If you think he is then great, good for you, but that simply isn't the case. Bladestorm is a great damage dealing ability but it is very clunky. The reason you rarely see Ash players is because he is only mediocre when it comes to most of his kit. 3/4 of Ash's abilities are "meh". He is on the same tier as Nyx. You may not believe this because, from your repsonse, it appears that you judge frames based only on their big number capabilities. And to this I'm surely not going to convince you Nyx is better than you imagine, but to say she is worse than Yareli or Hydroid is absolutely hilarious. 

Keep up the comedy, man. Some funny stuff here. Nyx is a solid C-tier frame, just like Ash.

[Siva503]

5 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

we have plenty means to refill energy. its overrated even though nice to have. u have to remember though: wisp 1 overall does a better job healing allies, CCing and also speeding up than oberon and trinity and thats just her 1. its only her 1 that kinda makes oberon's and trinity's kit nearly irrelevant.

yeah, true, trinity refilling energy would be a bonus for new players if she wasn't a *@##$ to get, I still feel like oberon has his spot because his healing is really top tier unless you get fully one-shot but yeah, trinity is really lacking.

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

yeah, true, trinity refilling energy would be a bonus for new players if she wasn't a *@##$ to get, I still feel like oberon has his spot because his healing is really top tier unless you get fully one-shot but yeah, trinity is really lacking.

What you've explained is exactly what makes Trinity and Oberon both C-tier frames.