Can nyx get a rework pls

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb Leqesai:

Keep up the comedy, man. Some funny stuff here. Nyx is a solid C-tier frame, just like Ash.

sorry, but the only true comedy here is you saying nyx and ash are on the same level. i never said ash is top tier. its just that nyx is the absolute bottom so if ash is c tier to u then nyx is at least d tier.

 

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Leqesai:

Arguments have already been presented to you. I suggest going back up, reading them again and evaluating your perspective a little more objectively.

maybe u do that urself instead of coming up with responses that make no sense unless u didnt really read everything.

good night.

[Siva503]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Chaos fully shuts down all auras of eximus units, ancients etc.
Psychic Bolts fully removes defenses (only one other frame does this and that frame cannot do what chaos does)
Mind Control can steal eximus auras and apply them to you/the team (mind controlled ancients for example give you 90% additional damage reduction)
Absorb literally makes a god-mode bubble that no other frame is able to replicate.

You may not understand how to play the frame effectively, or have some kind of weird bias against Nyx, but you really should learn the frame better. If you had more experience with her I don't think you'd ever make such a silly statement as, "She needs to be able to do something special."

Revenant can also steal eximus auras and it can steal a whole ton of them instead of just one at a time. Slash goes through defenses entirely, don't even need to use energy for it. Also Absorb is pretty much just a worse iron skin since its slows you down and the energy blast thing it does is a joke most of the time 

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Siva503 said:

Slash goes through defenses entirely

Wrong. Slash goes through armor. it does not go through shields.

2 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

Absorb is pretty much just a worse iron skin

No... Absorb is an area god mode. You use it to defend objectives... this is not how iron skin works at all. It also has no health pool that can be depleted.

 

3 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

sorry, but the only true comedy here is you saying nyx and ash are on the same level. i never said ash is top tier. its just that nyx is the absolute bottom so if ash is c tier to u then nyx is at least d tier.

Well on that note we'll just agree to disagree. Nyx being on the bottom is simply wrong. She has the same kit that she has always had and she was, for quite a while considered top tier. You should remember this considering you've been playing since 2014. 

[Siva503]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Wrong. Slash goes through armor. it does not go through shields.

No... Absorb is an area god mode. You use it to defend objectives... this is not how iron skin works at all. It also has no health pool that can be depleted.

Absorb's health pool is your energy pool. Your energy pool goes down faster when you're getting shot and also based on the damage being done to you.
I personally feel like shields aren't a big enough of an issue to really matter but in the cases where they are its probably better to bring Xaku instead.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

Revenant can also steal eximus auras and it can steal a whole ton of them instead of just one at a time. Slash goes through defenses entirely, don't even need to use energy for it. Also Absorb is pretty much just a worse iron skin since its slows you down and the energy blast thing it does is a joke most of the time 

I'm not sure why you're hung up on what other frames can do. 

There's almost 50 frames now and more on the way. Your premises are false. This means the things you think matter to you personally in the game don't matter to anyone else except you.

"Inaros has a lot of HP, why not give all frames more HP?"

"Why not give every frame spores huh?"

"Why does trinity exist when we have magus repair?"

It doesn't matter. This is a game for everyone to play anyway they want. 

Look at the past few reworks: they were adjustments and whatever they do or don't do isn't gonna be what you want.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

sorry, but the only true comedy here is you saying nyx and ash are on the same level. i never said ash is top tier. its just that nyx is the absolute bottom so if ash is c tier to u then nyx is at least d tier.

 

maybe u do that urself instead of coming up with responses that make no sense unless u didnt really read everything.

good night.

Another true comedy is watching people actually think frames are tiered or rated. 

 

[Siva503]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm not sure why you're hung up on what other frames can do. 

There's almost 50 frames now and more on the way. Your premises are false. This means the things you think matter to you personally in the game don't matter to anyone else except you.

"Inaros has a lot of HP, why not give all frames more HP?"

"Why not give every frame spores huh?"

"Why does trinity exist when we have magus repair?"

It doesn't matter. This is a game for everyone to play anyway they want. 

Look at the past few reworks: they were adjustments and whatever they do or don't do isn't gonna be what you want.

You've completely misunderstood my point. I want the exact opposite of what you're saying. I want every frame to have one good area where they do the best in; regardless of how niche, like Oberon having massive healing in small areas so he's good at eidolon hunts where everyone is just surrounding the eidolon, or protea being amazing at holding down points in solo missions. Nyx doesn't have an area where she does amazing, I have absolutely no reason to play her besides being to lazy to pick a better frame

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, Siva503 said:

You've completely misunderstood my point. I want the exact opposite of what you're saying. I want every frame to have one good area where they do the best in; regardless of how niche, like Oberon having massive healing in small areas so he's good at eidolon hunts where everyone is just surrounding the eidolon, or protea being amazing at holding down points in solo missions. Nyx doesn't have an area where she does amazing, I have absolutely no reason to play her besides being to lazy to pick a better frame

"Nyx doesn't have an area where she does amazing"

Like I said: it's the player behind the frame.

You just admitted you don't know basic Nyx utility. This is a you problem and I hope you are able to learn more of the game one day.

[Siva503]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"Nyx doesn't have an area where she does amazing"

Like I said: it's the player behind the frame.

You just admitted you don't know basic Nyx utility. This is a you problem and I hope you are able to learn more of the game one day.

I can't even begin to describe the lack of logic behind your response. In essence you've tried to say "I win you're bad"  which is an absolutely terrible argument which is honestly pretty fitting for a PlayStation account.
idk how to tell you that I've definitely played Nyx enough to know that there are much better frames for any given activity. I'd recommend trying new frames.
I'd also recommend losing the ego, chances are that you're an average player with no real reason to be talking the way you are

[Leqesai]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Another true comedy is watching people actually think frames are tiered or rated. 

 

I mean don't we all have a sort of internal favorites list? We might not think of it in terms of "tiers" but I think comparative analysis is a pretty general human function. Using the vernacular "tier" is pretty commonplace within the hierarchy of comparative analysis, much the same way people say things get a "1 out of 5" or a "1 out of 10". 

If talking about things through concepts of tiers/rankings is inappropriate do you think there is a more productive approach?

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

idk how to tell you that I've definitely played Nyx enough to know that there are much better frames for any given activity. I'd recommend trying new frames.

Considering you have erroneously explained how slash damage works, and compared absorb to iron skin I'd wager you need a bit more time with Nyx, my friend.

[Siva503]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Considering you have erroneously explained how slash damage works, and compared absorb to iron skin I'd wager you need a bit more time with Nyx, my friend.

man you didn't know that Nyx's absorb drained more energy based on damage taken, I had no clue what you needed explained

[sunderthefirmament]

9 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

You've completely misunderstood my point. I want the exact opposite of what you're saying. I want every frame to have one good area where they do the best in; regardless of how niche, like Oberon having massive healing in small areas so he's good at eidolon hunts where everyone is just surrounding the eidolon, or protea being amazing at holding down points in solo missions. Nyx doesn't have an area where she does amazing, I have absolutely no reason to play her besides being to lazy to pick a better frame

I will say that Nyx's 1 and 4 are a little clunky.  The 1 is flat out bad, and the 4 is only worth using with an augment (or a really weird old specter exploit strategy that I never bothered to try).  And as good as her 2 is, it's a little awkward with the targeting.  So I wouldn't mind her getting some updates.  However, with Pablo saying that reworks are just not a priority, I've tempered my hopes and am only focusing on the absolute bottom of the barrel: Yareli and Hydroid.

 

Nyx performs well in a lot of content, though I don't bring her everywhere.  Her kit shines against beefy, steel path and steel path adjacent enemies, particularly when they might also present a threat and shutting them down makes sense.  I like her on open world bounties, on Steel Path mobile defense, and the odd interception where I don't play Nova.

 

Instead of a full rework, I think having mind controlled (1) enemies deal % based damage to chaos-ed (3) or bolted (2) targets might make Nyx a bit more appealing, while also preventing other frames from biting off of her through the Helminth.  People keep begging for a true pet frame.  Maybe give Nyx's pet some DPS beyond its underwhelming augment.  But again, I would rather have more deserving frames get some attention here.

 

[Siva503]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I mean don't we all have a sort of internal favorites list? We might not think of it in terms of "tiers" but I think comparative analysis is a pretty general human function. Using the vernacular "tier" is pretty commonplace within the hierarchy of comparative analysis, much the same way people say things get a "1 out of 5" or a "1 out of 10". 

If talking about things through concepts of tiers/rankings is inappropriate do you think there is a more productive approach?

I checked that guys forum posts and he's pretty much a D.E slave, I'm pretty certain the only reason he doesn't like the 'tier lists' and whatnot is because it implies bad frames.

[Leqesai]

6 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

man you didn't know that Nyx's absorb drained more energy based on damage taken, I had no clue what you needed explained

What are you talking about... Nothing about my response had anything to do with how absorb's energy drain works. I never said anything about energy drain. If you are going to respond at least do so with content relevant to the response you're quoting. If you believe I was talking about energy drain then you are mistaken. I was talking about the functional use of Iron Skin compared to Absorb. They serve very different purposes. One protects yourself and one protects yourself and anything within its radius. 

[Siva503]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

What are you talking about... Nothing about my response had anything to do with how absorb's energy drain works. I never said anything about energy drain. If you are going to respond at least do so with content relevant to the response you're quoting. If you believe I was talking about energy drain then you are mistaken. I was talking about the functional use of Iron Skin compared to Absorb. They serve very different purposes. One protects yourself and one protects yourself and anything within its radius. 

with the augment, the radius it protects is practically the same as rhino's hitbox, and you brought up how iron skin has a health bar while absorbs didn't and I explained that technically it does, if absorb just slowly drained energy then it would be a different story but it drains faster based on damage taken, which is similar to a health bar.

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Chaos fully shuts down all auras of eximus units

It does not. Eximus auras may now affect their allies, but you still get your energy drained, ass knocked down, etc... 

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Psychic Bolts fully removes defenses (only one other frame does this and that frame cannot do what chaos does)

Except shield strip doesn't really matter, so there are plenty of frames that rival her for this position (especially since if you really wanted, you can equip any frame with Seeking Shuriken). 

And Xaku, the frame you're talking about, literally has an ability that is the same as Chaos... but it's 10x better.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Absorb literally makes a god-mode bubble that no other frame is able to replicate.

Because why would frames want to copy a barely relevant ability, when they can just have better ones like Mesmer Skin?

Your later point about its ability to protect more than just your frame isn't relevant in practice.

Quote

It also has no health pool that can be depleted.

Yeah, it's called your energy bar.

Quote

or a really weird old specter exploit strategy that I never bothered to try

@sunderthefirmament that was a bug, and it was fixed a few months ago.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I mean don't we all have a sort of internal favorites list? We might not think of it in terms of "tiers" but I think comparative analysis is a pretty general human function. Using the vernacular "tier" is pretty commonplace within the hierarchy of comparative analysis, much the same way people say things get a "1 out of 5" or a "1 out of 10". 

If talking about things through concepts of tiers/rankings is inappropriate do you think there is a more productive approach?

Based on the last reworks, it seems possible DE is reading a lot of feedback and picking some of the most agreed upon requests. This is why I've said in the past that frost and hydroid and Nyx and a couple others would be line next for a "rework". Because the ash, chroma and zephyr stuff was all over the place beforehand.

But for ranking: the humans that play this game need to try to realize they're not in a competition. It's literally a team based PVE with classic MMO elements. 

This is why Trinity doesn't nuke and everyone accepts this. Trinity isn't meant to nuke, it's common sense, correct? 

People should be arguing about the best combinations, synergies, and permutations 2 or 3 frames together can make. All the frames can benefit a team, even Gauss who people call a "selfish frame". 

Sortie Ambulas is hard as a new person right? "Gee, Octavias 4 gives a good weapon boost based on surrounding noise, and Rhinos roar also is a great weapon and ability boost. If I use Nezhas chakram on ambulas and shoot it with octavia and rhinos buff, that robot should die pretty fast so we can hack it."

But I get it, it's more fun and less thinky to just be tribal and race to make frames out do each other.

[Siva503]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Based on the last reworks, it seems possible DE is reading a lot of feedback and picking some of the most agreed upon requests. This is why I've said in the past that frost and hydroid and Nyx and a couple others would be line next for a "rework". Because the ash, chroma and zephyr stuff was all over the place beforehand.

But for ranking: the humans that play this game need to try to realize they're not in a competition. It's literally a team based PVE with classic MMO elements. 

This is why Trinity doesn't nuke and everyone accepts this. Trinity isn't meant to nuke, it's common sense, correct? 

People should be arguing about the best combinations, synergies, and permutations 2 or 3 frames together can make. All the frames can benefit a team, even Gauss who people call a "selfish frame". 

Sortie Ambulas is hard as a new person right? "Gee, Octavias 4 gives a good weapon boost based on surrounding noise, and Rhinos roar also is a great weapon and ability boost. If I use Nezhas chakram on ambulas and shoot it with octavia and rhinos buff, that robot should die pretty fast so we can hack it."

But I get it, it's more fun and less thinky to just be tribal and race to make frames out do each other.

most people tend to play the game solo or with randoms so usually they'll find whatever frame can do the most on its own and just run that. What good does running oberon do if you match up with a hildryn? you're better off picking a warframe that can function well on its own instead of finding some god combo and trying to convince a group of randoms to follow your strategy and hoping they have the frames + builds you want them to use

also for Ambulas id say bring a high damage stropha build to kill the thing, then a frame to keep it locked down while the timer runs down.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What are you talking about... Nothing about my response had anything to do with how absorb's energy drain works. I never said anything about energy drain. If you are going to respond at least do so with content relevant to the response you're quoting. If you believe I was talking about energy drain then you are mistaken. I was talking about the functional use of Iron Skin compared to Absorb. They serve very different purposes. One protects yourself and one protects yourself and anything within its radius. 

To be fair, you did express yourself in a way that implied you didn't know that Absorb has an effective health pool.

52 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

No... Absorb is an area god mode. You use it to defend objectives... this is not how iron skin works at all. It also has no health pool that can be depleted.

All in all though, I'd say Nyx is in the same boat as Banshee - she's got some good stuff going for her, some nifty tricks and whatnot, but she's got some rough edges that could really use with some polish. While Banshee's niche is more powerful (Sonar stacking), Nyx is more well rounded (several layers of don't-shoot-me, armor stripping but only for key targets, instant "oh sh*t" button).

(Speaking of nothing, fun fact: Did you know Absorb comes with a damage buff when deactivated? It's one of those things I imagine most people forget, because it's pretty forgettable at 8s base duration, or until the ability is used again. Making that buff more significant and lasting would really give Nyx some shine, no rework needed.)

[Leqesai]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Based on the last reworks, it seems possible DE is reading a lot of feedback and picking some of the most agreed upon requests. This is why I've said in the past that frost and hydroid and Nyx and a couple others would be line next for a "rework". Because the ash, chroma and zephyr stuff was all over the place beforehand.

But for ranking: the humans that play this game need to try to realize they're not in a competition. It's literally a team based PVE with classic MMO elements. 

This is why Trinity doesn't nuke and everyone accepts this. Trinity isn't meant to nuke, it's common sense, correct? 

People should be arguing about the best combinations, synergies, and permutations 2 or 3 frames together can make. All the frames can benefit a team, even Gauss who people call a "selfish frame". 

Sortie Ambulas is hard as a new person right? "Gee, Octavias 4 gives a good weapon boost based on surrounding noise, and Rhinos roar also is a great weapon and ability boost. If I use Nezhas chakram on ambulas and shoot it with octavia and rhinos buff, that robot should die pretty fast so we can hack it."

But I get it, it's more fun and less thinky to just be tribal and race to make frames out do each other.

Some good points made here, though I think some of the issues with specific frames is more to do with whether or not that frame is able to stand on its own. Frames like Yareli are simply bad. Frames like Nyx are not. Though I do agree with most of what you're saying. 

21 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Yeah, it's called your energy bar.

I get what you're saying but come on, dude. Energy functions differently and you know it. You can sustain absorb with energy orbs refills, Iron Skin has to break to be refreshed. They're not the same thing. 

21 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Because why would frames want to copy a barely relevant ability, when they can just have better ones like Mesmer Skin?

Your later point about its ability to protect more than just your frame isn't relevant in practice.

I fail to see how Absorb being used to protect objectives is not relevant. A Nyx parked on top of an excavator, or a defense objective can be quite helpful. Building Absorb for max range + efficiency works very well. Also, Absorb with Electromagnetic Shielding can also be helpful in giving an extra bit of damage reduction to nearby teammates (small 12m aura but helpful when doing defense missions. Though to be fair we are so powerful nowadays this sort of thing really isn't needed).

21 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

It does not. Eximus auras may now affect their allies, but you still get your energy drained, ass knocked down, etc... 

Yeah I apologize this was incorrect. It does not shut down eximus it applies their aura to everything in range (including enemies). I was thinking about how it shuts down ancient healer auras (healers only heal themselves) and did not realize regular eximus units don't get shut down in a similar way.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Just now, Siva503 said:

most people tend to play the game solo or with randoms so usually they'll find whatever frame can do the most on its own and just run that. What good does running oberon do if you match up with a hildryn? you're better off picking a warframe that can function well on its own instead of finding some god combo and trying to convince a group of randoms to follow your strategy and hoping they have the frames + builds you want them to use

There's many facets and communities in games. Some people also communicate and plan missions....and do what's called "making a static (group)" or making a "premade". They can go into their own groups completely separated from the public match world.

So how do you know how tens of thousands of people are playing and what they want?

And keep in mind that sometimes it doesn't matter what most people want every time. Most people didn't want the bramma nerfed. It's almost like some players can be flawed and have biased opinions about what every tool in the game should be for.

 

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

To be fair, you did express yourself in a way that implied you didn't know that Absorb has an effective health pool.

Oh, well if that was how I came across then I apologize. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

 

And you were close. It's psychic bolts:

"Auras disabled by Psychic Bolts include the Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, Toxic Ancient, and the defensive auras of Infested Eximus units."

[Leqesai]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

And you were close. It's psychic bolts:

"Auras disabled by Psychic Bolts include the Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, Toxic Ancient, and the defensive auras of Infested Eximus units."

Well good to know I'm not totally crazy. But that's more of a happy coincidence than anything else. I was just confused about chaos in my original response.