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Can nyx get a rework pls


Siva503
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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There's many facets and communities in games. Some people also communicate and plan missions....and do what's called "making a static (group)" or making a "premade". They can go into their own groups completely separated from the public match world.

So how do you know how tens of thousands of people are playing and what they want?

And keep in mind that sometimes it doesn't matter what most people want every time. Most people didn't want the bramma nerfed. It's almost like some players can be flawed and have biased opinions about what every tool in the game should be for.

 

obviously some people will make premade groups but I imagine that most of the people playing warframe will inevitably have to play a mission on their own or with randoms and having a ranking for warframes to use while solo would be super helpful.
also yeah, most people didn't want to bramma nerfed but it was overused and when something is just objectively the best thing to use in most situations, it needs to get knocked down a bit so other things can be used and not trail so far behind that its ridiculous. its the same coin with Nyx but on the opposite side, Nyx is very underused, and she has pretty much no situations where she is the best thing to use, so a small buff would push her in the right direction. I don't see why Nyx shouldn't be buffed, she's underused and I figured a rework would spice her up a bit but even just a buff would be good for her. The Nyx mains get a nice bonus and the play rate of an underused warframe goes up a bit, it wouldn't shatter the game or ruin the meta and changing a couple of numbers around is pretty much what the devs do for a living.

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3 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

obviously some people will make premade groups but I imagine that most of the people playing warframe will inevitably have to play a mission on their own or with randoms and having a ranking for warframes to use while solo would be super helpful.
also yeah, most people didn't want to bramma nerfed but it was overused and when something is just objectively the best thing to use in most situations, it needs to get knocked down a bit so other things can be used and not trail so far behind that its ridiculous. its the same coin with Nyx but on the opposite side, Nyx is very underused, and she has pretty much no situations where she is the best thing to use, so a small buff would push her in the right direction. I don't see why Nyx shouldn't be buffed, she's underused and I figured a rework would spice her up a bit but even just a buff would be good for her. The Nyx mains get a nice bonus and the play rate of an underused warframe goes up a bit, it wouldn't shatter the game or ruin the meta and changing a couple of numbers around is pretty much what the devs do for a living.

This is a pretty sensible response, my dude.

I think the real problem here is the best solutions for "make this mission easy" fall onto only a small handful of frames. Frames with incredible DPS output potential tend to outclass all the others. If a frame doesn't output big damage numbers then it isn't popular, and if it isn't popular people think it is bad. Nyx is simply not a bad frame, she just doesn't compete with the big guns (xaku, octavia, saryn, mesa etc.) because her playstyle is not about big damage. She has some great abilities but she gets outclassed simply because people migrate to the big damage number frames.

Thing is, Nyx can at least clear Steel Path missions without much issue. Frames like Hydroid and Yareli struggle more than Nyx because their ability-sets are sub-par across the board. And I hate to say that because Hydroid is one of my favorite frames but he just sucks ever since they nerfed corrosive status. Prior to the corrosive nerf he was at least viable as an armor-stripping warframe.

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14 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

You can sustain absorb with energy orbs refills, Iron Skin has to break to be refreshed. They're not the same thing.

Couldn't you also say that with ehp then? And Rhino's most popular augment allows him to to just that. (But personally I wasn't comparing them)

17 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

A Nyx parked on top of an excavator, or a defense objective can be quite helpful.

Because the few places that has the potential to actually be used, not only is she massively outclassed, but there's no need. That's why despite how powerful some defensive frames are like Limbo, people don't regularly use him. Because you either don't need that level of defense, or just simply DPSing keeps the mission going. 

Even then, frames have access to stuff like Gloom, Shooting Gallery, etc... as a side thought to their DPS.

 

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14 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This is a pretty sensible response, my dude.

I think the real problem here is the best solutions for "make this mission easy" fall onto only a small handful of frames. Frames with incredible DPS output potential tend to outclass all the others. If a frame doesn't output big damage numbers then it isn't popular, and if it isn't popular people think it is bad. Nyx is simply not a bad frame, she just doesn't compete with the big guns (xaku, octavia, saryn, mesa etc.) because her playstyle is not about big damage. She has some great abilities but she gets outclassed simply because people migrate to the big damage number frames.

Thing is, Nyx can at least clear Steel Path missions without much issue. Frames like Hydroid and Yareli struggle more than Nyx because their ability-sets are sub-par across the board. And I hate to say that because Hydroid is one of my favorite frames but he just sucks ever since they nerfed corrosive status. Prior to the corrosive nerf he was at least viable as an armor-stripping warframe.

honestly the whole reason I want Nyx to get a buff is because I really like revenant and I noticed that Nyx had similar abilities and I was hoping that her first ability would give you a crazy strong ally but it ended up doing pretty much nothing but taking aggro. Hydroid and Yareli just have horribly clunky kits to work with and honestly Yareli is gonna be a really tough one to fix up and even if they do make her good it'll still be a loooooong time till I get her just because her quest is k-drive based. Hydroid at least has a decent aesthetic to work around and has room for options in terms of a full kit rework and everything. Nyx isn't in dire need of a rework like they are but a buff would be nice, I get really bored of using nezha just because D.E doesn't want to touch up on any of the "unpopular" frames

and I get that I could just bite the bullet and use Nyx despite her not being the greatest frame but I have really funky time constraints as of recent and I can't really afford to spend a lot of time on steel path missions. My time gets taken at really random points so any mission longer than 30 minutes straight is pushing it, I play Nyx when I get the chance but I wish she was able to keep up with some of the A and B tier frames

Edited by Siva503
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2 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Couldn't you also say that with ehp then? And Rhino's most popular augment allows him to to just that. (But personally I wasn't comparing them)

You still have to refresh the ability. Absorb doesn't necessarily need to be refreshed. Granted, at the same levels of content Iron Skin probably doesn't need refreshed that often... But the thing is, Iron skin is still a self-protection ability while Absorb can be used to protect others as well. This is the main point I'm trying to make.

3 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Because the few places that has the potential to actually be used, not only is she massively outclassed, but there's no need. That's why despite how powerful some defensive frames are like Limbo, people don't regularly use him. Because you either don't need that level of defense, or just simply DPSing keeps the mission going. 

Even then, frames have access to stuff like Gloom, Shooting Gallery, etc... as a side thought to their DPS.

You're certainly not wrong but as far as CC goes, Nyx is not massively outclassed as far as I'm concerned. Fact is, Chaos is really useful as is Psychic Bolts and Absorb. There are certainly better options but that doesn't mean Nyx is not perfectly viable and useful in these situations. But yeah, especially now that Helminth exists the CC-heavy frames are less popular because the meta is "big numbers is best". This is probably exacerbated by the fact that people are gauging utility on whether or not they can clear Steel Path quickly/efficiently. 

Also... Shooting Gallery is something I use on my Nyx because if you're going to CC, you might as well CC all the way... ;) (stun from psychic bolts, jammed guns from shooting gallery, distraction from chaos, distraction from mind control... nothing quite like completely shutting down enemies).

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4 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

honestly the whole reason I want Nyx to get a buff is because I really like revenant and I noticed that Nyx had similar abilities and I was hoping that her first ability would give you a crazy strong ally but it ended up doing pretty much nothing but taking aggro. Hydroid and Yareli just have horribly clunky kits to work with and honestly Yareli is gonna be a really tough one to fix up and even if they do make her good it'll still be a loooooong time till I get her just because her quest is k-drive based. Hydroid at least has a decent aesthetic to work around and has room for options in terms of a full kit rework and everything. Nyx isn't in dire need of a rework like they are but a buff would be nice, I get really bored of using nezha just because D.E doesn't want to touch up on any of the "unpopular" frames

To be fair.. DE doesn't want to touch up any of the old frames as far as we've been told recently. 

Would any of us say no to seeing frames we like improved? I doubt it. Are we going to see any improvements? Not very likely. At least not until after New War if/when DE decide to improve current content instead of puking out half-cocked new content every 3 months that needs the proceeding 3 months of hot fixes to get it "not broken" enough for them to call it good. And of course there are outliers to this (poor grendel) that haven't even had that bandaid set of hotfixes.

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6 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

I agree with @Leqesai The reality is warframe reworks lately to DE have not been making more people play the frame. they also lose money every time a rework is thought of. ( these are DE's words from the tennocon 2021 Q n A stream. not mines. ) Its a let down that DE is so discounted from their own community. its hard for me to pity them. They truly dont care for any of the old frames everyone is begging for reworks. Nyx got a half ass rework in 2018 and they never looked back on it.  i used to play this game for hours. now reasons like this im playing for barely even 5 mins or at all. Warframe is a success. why bother getting better when you make so much cash from selling wisp skins. God, i wish halo infinite was here. 

 

 

man thats depressing, if they spent more time polishing up the game instead of pushing out random drops of content it'd definitely be a more enjoyable experience but unfortunately pushing out reworks doesn't get them money like making a frame for the whales to buy on launch

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Just now, Siva503 said:

man thats depressing, if they spent more time polishing up the game instead of pushing out random drops of content it'd definitely be a more enjoyable experience but unfortunately pushing out reworks doesn't get them money like making a frame for the whales to buy on launch

Except it totally could if they would do a better job of planning and timing skin releases.  Hydroid has a gorgeous deluxe skin.  I'll buy the whole bundle when he gets a rework.  I know I'm just one person, but I can't imagine I'm completely alone on this.

 

Wukong's rework was really well timed.  It dropped just before his prime, and his deluxe skin arrived right around then too.  For Hydroid, that's not really an option anymore, which sucks.  But he could still get a rework that just so happens to drop right before his unvaulting.

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1 minute ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Except it totally could if they would do a better job of planning and timing skin releases.  Hydroid has a gorgeous deluxe skin.  I'll buy the whole bundle when he gets a rework.  I know I'm just one person, but I can't imagine I'm completely alone on this.

 

Wukong's rework was really well timed.  It dropped just before his prime, and his deluxe skin arrived right around then too.  For Hydroid, that's not really an option anymore, which sucks.  But he could still get a rework that just so happens to drop right before his unvaulting.

You're right on. DE could make a bunch off of reworks if they did consistent reworks/updates to frames whenever prime access goes live (and also prime vault). Also, if they release deluxe skins. I think they used to do this a bit but they've stopped. 

Unfortunately DE is showing us more and more that Warframe is no longer a passion project. Early on it really appeared to be a passion project, that the devs were passionate about making things work but as time went on this has really shifted. Who knows why.. Maybe it has something to do with the Tencent aquisition, maybe it has to do with players being too hard on the Devs when things don't work the way we want/hope. Who knows.... but I'm likely not going to be buying prime access anymore because I can't support the current development trends.

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15 minutes ago, Siva503 said:

man thats depressing, if they spent more time polishing up the game instead of pushing out random drops of content it'd definitely be a more enjoyable experience but unfortunately pushing out reworks doesn't get them money like making a frame for the whales to buy on launch

As long as the money is rolling in I don't think they care about whether or not the game is actually good.

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5 hours ago, Siva503 said:

yeah but theres a bit of a difference between skill gap and the frame just sucking lol

I think it's bad to rework complete kits and I'll explain my point of view: reworks seem exhausting for developers as the content pool is growing month after month. I believe that any frame/weapon/system can be given a new satisfactory boost mod in correction. Domineering frames are in a good place, if DE wants to reduce them it needs to create new enemies against spam strategies or specific abilities.

I support your point of view here and am curious to see the future of the prime vault.
[irony]Hi, I'm a newbie and I'm going to buy a powerful Nyx Prime pack[/irony]

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Nyx is OP at the moment. Can go hours in steel path survival with her massive cc. I put ecplise on her 1 for a damage output bonus and use her 2 to strip 100% armour, her 3 for big cc. Then only use her 4 if I have gotten in a sticky situation and need my shields back.

10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

What you've explained is exactly what makes Trinity and Oberon both C-tier frames.

Oberon can't be one-shot if you put on Phoenix Renewal

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9 hours ago, moostar95 said:

The reality is warframe reworks lately to DE have not been making more people play the frame.

Have you seen Wukong's usage stats recently? The stupid little stuff they do like add a charge mechanic to Vauban's 1 does nothing, of course. But when a frame actually gets a rework (mainly when Pablo is the one to do it), that frame's usage skyrockets. Look at Nezha, Wukong, etc... even Zephyr. Those multiple half-assed changes to her kit before did nothing, and then Pablo got a hold of her and now she feels great. You may not see her a lot because she's not a DPS frame, but I'm sure you see her a lot more than you used to.

And if a rework sucks, of course it has to the potential to not be profitable; Because no one is going to buy them from the market, rush them with plat, buy their skins etc... But the same goes if you make a new frame that sucks (Yareli).

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Wow, people really don’t want Nyx to be better.

That’s actually extremely disappointing.

We shouldn’t be settling with substandard frames in the game. We should be pushing DE to do better.

Just because Nyx technically “works” doesn’t mean her kit isn’t extremely slow and outperformed by literally every other frame. Simply tying Her cheap 100% armor strip with a Corinth prime is not enough of an argument that she’s good.

Needing to fling yourself around with a melee weapon to move while tanking is not good when literally every other tank frame can literally just walk.

Having a CC ability that literally just comes down to being a Field of View reduction is not good.

Having an AI companion that’s more interested in walking around than shooting people is not good.

A 5 target armor strip is not enough to call Nyx good.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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18 hours ago, Siva503 said:

Her first ability (Mind control) is a joke it pretty much lobotomizes an enemy of your choosing, they don't really shoot or do anything most of the time because its code hasn't been updated since 2014.
Her second ability (Psychic bolts) is alright, but in a viral + slash meta its not very useful, we already ignore defenses and its not worth building around so I can run pure damage instead of viral + slash
Her third ability's (Chaos) cast time is just slightly too long for me to want to actually use it but that's personal preference so I don't really count it as a reason, but its practically pocket radiation which is fine but seriously revenant's first ability makes chaos and mind control look like trash in comparison because his ability actually works and spreads on its own without an augment
Her fourth ability (Absorb) is pretty much just a health gate, once again an ability outshined by revenant because Mesmer skin is a much better defensive ability that actually combo's into revenant's kit

Her passive (enemies are 20% less accurate when targeting Nyx) isn't a game changer by any means, you pretty much never notice it and there's no real way to build around it or work with it.

While I agree to an extent. I don't believe that Nyx is outright trash. I feel she's just different in terms of how she plays and that is due to the fact that her kit has little to no synergy. She fits a theme, but the theme being mind control, and the enemy AI being dumb as bricks doesn't play incredibly well. Don't get me wrong, I think revenant is a lot of fun to play, and (he's my 2nd most played frame at the moment) his kit works together very well, but I am not going to label her as trash. I've used her all the way to level capped enemies, and can that can be done very easily, as she has an ability that makes her immortal.

Your conclusion with her first ability and her kit overall is pretty spot on. It doesn't have a ton of synergy with her kit. Her first ability is my least favorite ability in the game. It does not work well. Players that have played enough of the game knows to just avoid casting it, as it is more trouble to deal with the mind controlled unit that it is to cast it. The mob offers such little damage, there's no point in investing any effort into it. Any of the AI controlled units tend to be just clunky and not that great to use, like atlas' rumblers. I don't mind Khora's cat (not saying it's amazing, i usually subsume it), it at least offers your team some guaranteed buffs that you can control. While if we wanted enemy buffs and debuffs, we need to find an eximus and mind control it. To be honest, i'm not even sure what all the eximus buffs and debuffs are.

I disagree with your statement about her 2nd ability, Psychic bolts. While, yes, slash and viral is very strong at the moment against general clear. I think if that were the case, we can generally just run anything with a glaive prime, and some grouping ability. But I don't believe that's the point you're trying to make. I think the idea of building completely around the skill is misguided. Psychic bolts doesn't really need to be built around, as you can achieve 100% armour strip with a single intensify slotted in, it can be cast one handed, and just spammed since the energy cost is relatively low. It also has a massive range built in by default. It doesn't need to be built around, it just works as long as you don't run negative power str (125% to be exact). For a skill that has very little investment, and spammable, If you are building for chaos, you can still work with 100% power str and 80% armour strip innate on a level 4 psychic bolt. i think it's better than just "alright".

Her 4th ability has some quirks. I think it's fair to say that if you're looking for synergy in the ability with the rest of her kit, you're not going to find it. In that regards, it's not as good as mesmer skin. However, I don't think it is a health gate. When I think Health gate, i think nidus' passive. If i'm misunderstanding you, please elaborate. I don't believe it is outright worthless though. It grants immortality while it is channeled, and in most cases, if you're running the augment, it's just going to stay on forever. I usually just move around in operator when I need to reposition, or use melee combos to move like Blind Justice's first block attack. It's not a bad ability, but for an ability that, by default, welds you in place without the augment, and with the augment moves you incredibly slowly, it just does not fit into the current fast pace of the game. I don't think anyone uses the ability anymore without the augment. I would like to see this work like it does with the augment by default. Then have the augment allow you to move around at normal speed, and bullet jump and stuff, but at a heavier penalty to energy consumption. I think it's still a good ability for what it is, just nothing amazing, and doesn't fit into the current style everyone plays WF.

Her passive is ok. Pair it up with the sly vulpaphila's 20% evasion, and it's useful to an extent. It's not great, but it's not terrible. I don't think it really even matters if you build around her 4, when you don't have an opportunity to take any damage at all.

I agree that her kit doesn't have a lot of synergy, and her abilities don't really work that great together. For what she has, she can still handle all the content in the game without much effort. So I disagree to the extent that she is 'trash'. Would I like to see a rework? Yea, it would be nice to see some more synergy in her kit.

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb Leqesai:

Well on that note we'll just agree to disagree. Nyx being on the bottom is simply wrong. She has the same kit that she has always had and she was, for quite a while considered top tier. You should remember this considering you've been playing since 2014. 

it doesnt matter because thats in the very distant past. the game is in a totally different state. arguing about what was years ago for a small time as if it was something that still applies makes hardly any sense when the competition and state of the game is very very very different.

defend nyx's kit, block suggestions for improvement, whatever....i mean were suggesting to ruin her because shes so broken OP so ur totally right to defend her from us. /s

  

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)GearsMatrix301:

Wow, people really don’t want Nyx to be better.

That’s actually extremely disappointing.

i know right. i cant make sense of this logic either. but lets follow the mindset of blaming players: were just bad, we cant comprehend the insanity that is her kit so it is the "we" and not nyx...

big yikes.

Edited by Xydeth
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5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Have you seen Wukong's usage stats recently? The stupid little stuff they do like add a charge mechanic to Vauban's 1 does nothing, of course. But when a frame actually gets a rework (mainly when Pablo is the one to do it), that frame's usage skyrockets. Look at Nezha, Wukong, etc... even Zephyr. Those multiple half-assed changes to her kit before did nothing, and then Pablo got a hold of her and now she feels great. You may not see her a lot because she's not a DPS frame, but I'm sure you see her a lot more than you used to.

And if a rework sucks, of course it has to the potential to not be profitable; Because no one is going to buy them from the market, rush them with plat, buy their skins etc... But the same goes if you make a new frame that sucks (Yareli).

Ironically, the changes to zephyr have made her a really powerful dps frame. The increased pull range on her tornado coupled eith the bonus crit when she is airborne make for massive damage output potential. I would say at this point in the game very few frames can output as much damage as zephyr. 

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33 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

it doesnt matter because thats in the very distant past. the game is in a totally different state. arguing about what was years ago for a small time as if it was something that still applies makes hardly any sense when the competition and state of the game is very very very different.

defend nyx's kit, block suggestions for improvement, whatever....i mean were suggesting to ruin her because shes so broken OP so ur totally right to defend her from us. /s

  

i know right. i cant make sense of this logic either. but lets follow the mindset of blaming players: were just bad, we cant comprehend the insanity that is her kit so it is the "we" and not nyx...

big yikes.

Just to be clear. I am not suggesting nyx not be improved, i am saying she isnt bottom of the barrel with yareli.

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Not intending to get off-topic here, but this comes to mind;

On 2020-12-09 at 8:03 AM, [DE]Helen said:

WARFRAME ABILITY CHANGES:
The first group in our “touch all Warframes” list! We aim to give each Warframe a little quality of life touch up and not laser focus on one Warframe at a time.

 

I don't believe there's ever been a second group. Although TNW is still being developed, so that might not be until after the multiple weekend boosters are over (Those'll be for several more weekends into October too). I would hope that some more Frames such as Hydroid, Yareli (If her current stat-buffs are all she's getting for now), or other Frames could be gathered up for some QoL additions and changes (Which could include invertible toggles depending on the ability). Of course those are just some hypothetical examples if & when DE does another "touch all Warframes" update.

 

 

It has been some time since I last used Nyx, but I would like to work on finishing my build for her in the near future. I'm not sure what sort of improvements she'd get in the event she got included in a second group, but more QoL is always nice :)

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3 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Ironically, the changes to zephyr have made her a really powerful dps frame.

She's got really good damage, but she doesn't have the coverage or the mobility that the long list of DPS frames in front of her have. On a max range build, if she has line-of-sight on anything within 25m, it's instantly vaporized as soon as Airburst pulls it. But that's only 25m in comparison to the 50m a lot of DPS frames have... and she's stationary. She's good, but I wouldn't call her a DPS in the majority of the game.

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28 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

She's got really good damage, but she doesn't have the coverage or the mobility that the long list of DPS frames in front of her have. On a max range build, if she has line-of-sight on anything within 25m, it's instantly vaporized as soon as Airburst pulls it. But that's only 25m in comparison to the 50m a lot of DPS frames have... and she's stationary. She's good, but I wouldn't call her a DPS in the majority of the game.

Thing is, tornados can be created beyond line of sight. And if you're using explosives that violate line of sight you can kill enemies from beyond walls that restrict other frames. 

I'm not saying she is the best DPS frame. I'm saying she has damage output potential that is incredibly high. Her killing potential is certainly comparable to Mesa and Mesa is a pretty popular DPS frame. There's a reason Zephyr is (or at least was) at the top of the ESO leaderboards.

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4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Thing is, tornados can be created beyond line of sight.

Oh I know, but then her range is really quite short. And Airburst goes through walls, but it can't pull enemies through them. So I just brought up LoS to talk about her best case scenario.

4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

There's a reason Zephyr is (or at least was) at the top of the ESO leaderboards.

Makes sense, as even before melee 3.0 (if you got the right tiles) Khora could out DPS frames like Saryn. But as soon as one was bigger than a single room, she fell right back behind again.

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