Galvanized Aptitude/Savvy/Shot not applying to certain weapons [Investigating]

[Berzerkules]

Got a link for that spreadsheet?

DE isn't known for providing useful information.

[Quest]

I just saw that as well and I'm pretty confused about the whole thing. I wish someone could just provide a general rule of thumb for what it will and won't work on.

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

Got a link for that spreadsheet?

Here ya go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jFIcb4W_KeZ5glapDLgFasmcOt8tp_lcpId82UQSv2c/edit#gid=754139342

[Berzerkules]

2 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I just saw that as well and I'm pretty confused about the whole thing. I wish someone could just provide a general rule of thumb for what it will and won't work on.

Here ya go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jFIcb4W_KeZ5glapDLgFasmcOt8tp_lcpId82UQSv2c/edit#gid=754139342

Awesome ty

[L3512]

17 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I just saw that as well and I'm pretty confused about the whole thing. I wish someone could just provide a general rule of thumb for what it will and won't work on.

It's absolute batS#&$, the only rule of thumb here is to check a spreadsheet if you want to use these mods.

[Lutesque]

19 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I wish someone could just provide a general rule of thumb for what it will and won't work on.

Doesn't Work on AoEs...

Does and Doesn't Work on Projectile Based Weapons..

Alwayz works on Hitscan Weapons... 👍

[Quest]

3 minutes ago, L3512 said:

It's absolute batS#&$, the only rule of thumb here is to check a spreadsheet if you want to use these mods.

I guess, but I shouldn't need to look at a spreadsheet to know whether or not a mod will function correctly.

I have the same issue with Firestorm, although to a lesser extent.

Spoiler

Why would the game let me put a mod on equipment that isn't allowed to benefit from it?

[L3512]

7 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I guess, but I shouldn't need to look at a spreadsheet to know whether or not a mod will function correctly.

I have the same issue with Firestorm, although to a lesser extent.

  Reveal hidden contents

Why would the game let me put a mod on equipment that isn't allowed to benefit from it?

Last time DE looked at these mods.

Update 30.9 https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1286070-update-3090-prime-resurgence/(2021-11-11)

• Changed the description of Galvanized Aptitude to better reflect its current function (which clarifies that area of effect damage is not included)

[Krankbert]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb QuestWasTaken:

Why would the game let me put a mod on equipment that isn't allowed to benefit from it?

Bad QA and indolence, like a lot of things in the game. These mods aren't just "Condition Overload for ranged weapons" in concept, they're bug-for-bug the same mechanic that has been this way for years, it has just been less noticable because there's fewer melee weapons with projectiles.

[Tiltskillet]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Zeljamin said:

I thought these were fixed, but apparently they are only partially fixed.

There was no fix at all.  There was an announcement that they weren't going to affect the AoE components of weapons and the addition of the word "direct" in front of "damage" in the mod descriptions.

Here's the explanation:

On 2021-11-11 at 5:33 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Changed the description of Galvanized Aptitude to better reflect its current function (which clarifies that area of effect damage is not included)

• ... BUT WAIT! We want to explain why because it’s very important to us that everyone understands where we are coming from with our current design mindset. AoE Weapons are the dominant ones by every usage metric. We see this day after day. Having this bonus apply to the AoE instance felt dangerously close to a myopic choice concerning powering up player Arsenals that simply do not need it. This mod never worked on AoE, and the description now explains that to avoid confusion. We understand those seeking a different outcome will disagree with this choice, but ultimately we are not willing to further bolster AoE at this time. This is due to the increasing difficulty in creating content that serves to challenge the Tenno.   

But they haven't fixed or even mentioned the huge number of weapons (mostly non-AoE, mostly projectile) that aren't working correctly with these mods.

[Tiltskillet]

 

8 hours ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I just saw that as well and I'm pretty confused about the whole thing. I wish someone could just provide a general rule of thumb for what it will and won't work on.

I guess the rule of thumb, such as it is, is to assume projectile weapon don't work or work poorly with the damage bonus component of the  mods.  But there are lots of exceptions, including some hitscan weapons, and some projectile weapons where the mods work better than they should, and some weapons haven't been tested yet.

But really, you just have to look at the spreadsheet, which is just freaking sad.

7 hours ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I have the same issue with Firestorm, although to a lesser extent.

Yeah, but I think"to a lesser extent" is putting it really mildly.    It sucks that we can fit mods like Firestorm (and Terminal Velocity and Cautious Shot and...) on weapons where they don't do anything.  It's shoddy design at best.  But a player who knows very little about the game can figure out intuitively which weapons Firestorm would be great on 95% of the time.  There are a handful of radial damage weapons where it doesn't work as one might expect, but it's far, far from the situation with the Galv status damage mods.

[Redfeather75]

That youtube video I saw yesterday and now I seen 2 topics on here about it. It's becoming a hot topic.

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, Redfeather75 said:

That youtube video I saw yesterday and now I seen 2 topics on here about it. It's becoming a hot topic.

Good.   Unfortunately it sometimes seems like Content Creator attention is what motivates DE to move things up their priority list or at least tell us what's going on.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

It's weird that AoE damage wouldn't be affected, since a lot of Status-emphasizing gear has an AoE component.

[Tiltskillet]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Hooligonzo said:

It's weird that AoE damage wouldn't be affected, since a lot of Status-emphasizing gear has an AoE component.

That part of it is an intentional choice by DE.  The reason given  that they"... are not willing to further bolster AoE at this time. This is due to the increasing difficulty in creating content that serves to challenge the Tenno."    If one reads between the lines, it might be closer to "We goofed and a few AoE weapons are easily crushing almost everything we throw your way already and don't need a buff."

If you just mean that it's weird intuitively and aside from what's meta, then yeah, it's weird.

[Daffan]

bring  out mod so that viral/slash dominance  is not as boring anymore

forget to make it work

oops

[Quest]

12 hours ago, L3512 said:

Last time DE looked at these mods.

Update 30.9 https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1286070-update-3090-prime-resurgence/(2021-11-11)

• Changed the description of Galvanized Aptitude to better reflect its current function (which clarifies that area of effect damage is not included)

I personally didn't notice the change, and either way it's still extremely confusing.

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, but I think"to a lesser extent" is putting it really mildly.    It sucks that we can fit mods like Firestorm (and Terminal Velocity and Cautious Shot and...) on weapons where they don't do anything.  It's shoddy design at best.  But a player who knows very little about the game can figure out intuitively which weapons Firestorm would be great on 95% of the time.  There are a handful of radial damage weapons where it doesn't work as one might expect, but it's far, far from the situation with the Galv status damage mods.

You're right, I think I only wrote "to a lesser extent" because Firestorm has existed for a while and I'm just used to checking that list on the wiki to know if it will or won't work on something. However, it should still be changed.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

13 hours ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I guess, but I shouldn't need to look at a spreadsheet to know whether or not a mod will function correctly.

I have the same issue with Firestorm, although to a lesser extent.

  Reveal hidden contents

Why would the game let me put a mod on equipment that isn't allowed to benefit from it?

So they originally had firestorm only applicable to certain weapons, usually classified as launcher types, but this actually excluded other AoE weapons. As such they made it available to all weapons, even if it has no value. Part of the game knowledge is being able to read the weapon stats and see “oh this mod doesnt affect anything” 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

2 hours ago, Daffan said:

bring  out mod so that viral/slash dominance  is not as boring anymore

forget to make it work

oops

Tbf, these mods were never designed to make viral/slash less dominant. They were designed to bring ranged weapons up to par with melee, and in general they did. If anything they allow weapons with viral/slash to be even better due to the increasing multishot/crit values

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

So they originally had firestorm only applicable to certain weapons, usually classified as launcher types, but this actually excluded other AoE weapons. As such they made it available to all weapons, even if it has no value.

That was a two steps forward, one-and-a-half steps back solution.  They could have merely expanded it to the weapons where it made sense, rather than expanding it to  all weapons whether it made sense or not.   I can guess at possible reasons.   But as a player "unpolished" is the nicest word I can use for the result.

22 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Part of the game knowledge is being able to read the weapon stats and see “oh this mod doesnt affect anything” 

Unfortunately part of the game knowledge is being able to know when to ignore weapon stats and instead look at the wiki and see that Firestorm doesn't work on AoE weapons like Opticor and Shedu.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

28 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That was a two steps forward, one-and-a-half steps back solution.  They could have merely expanded it to the weapons where it made sense, rather than expanding it to  all weapons whether it made sense or not.   I can guess at possible reasons.   But as a player "unpolished" is the nicest word I can use for the result.

I can definitely agree with the term usage. It was a catchall change, that I think as a whole works, but obviously isnt perfect

28 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Unfortunately part of the game knowledge is being able to know when to ignore weapon stats and instead look at the wiki and see that Firestorm doesn't work on AoE weapons like Opticor and Shedu.

I wasnt aware of some of the weapons that were unaffected (honestly forgot the opticor was technically AoE tbh), but I could've sworn it worked on the shedu, which is a gun I do use regularly. Guess Ina have to do some testing later tonight after work. 

[Verreater]

and that would be ridiculously overpowered

[(XBOX)Zeljamin]

13 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

That youtube video I saw yesterday and now I seen 2 topics on here about it. It's becoming a hot topic.

Yay! Hopefully it will be seen by more people and the information will begin to bother them as well. If enough people question/complain about this BS than maybe something will change!

[(XBOX)Zeljamin]

14 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There was no fix at all.  There was an announcement that they weren't going to affect the AoE components of weapons and the addition of the word "direct" in front of "damage" in the mod descriptions.

Here's the explanation:

But they haven't fixed or even mentioned the huge number of weapons (mostly non-AoE, mostly projectile) that aren't working correctly with these mods.

Well crap. That is genuinely awful. I thought there was a hitscan weapon problem and that lead to this new problem being found out next. If all they did is just change the text than that is a straight wtf.

[Gileadan]

I don't have enough of a clue to take accurate measurements, but I did spend some time with the Sporothrix (projectile based status sniper) this weekend and there was no noticeable difference between shooting a status free mob in the face vs one that was covered in status effects from both the gun and a Helstrum equipped sentinel, so.... yeah.

[Redfeather75]

It might not be seen, but I wanted to point out that path of exile has a system that shows what support gems work on what skill gems. It might be helpful if mods did that too. Hover over a mod and you can see a list of weapons it can be used on. I don't know. Right now I see why people are bothered since working to get something and then seeing it doesn't work happens here and there and adds up to aggravate.