Galvanized Aptitude/Savvy/Shot not applying to certain weapons [Investigating]

[Josh486]

It will never change, sorry. That’s the only reasonable answer I can give you and it’s very evident from their “fix” of galvanized aptitude that there’s no way or it’s just too much effort for galvanized aptitude to work on projectiles. This mod was very clearly intended to work for everything, but just like condition overload on glaives, this mod just never worked on explosions/projectiles correctly and it never will. There’s something janky in the code that’s clearly preventing this from happening, and it’s been like this for years, DE just seized the moment of people using AOE a bunch and said that it was always meant to be this way

[CrimsonKestrel]

Posting my first comment here so that this issue gets more attention.

Building and testing weapons in SP is my favorite thing to do in this game by far, and these mods only working on a portion of weapons is really disappointing.

Also, these mods don't affect radial attacks (similar to condition overload). This is totally fine if intended, but isn't documented anywhere in-game. As a result there are tons of people walking around with galvanized aptitude on their kuva bramma not understanding that it's only buffing the arrow's direct hit and not the blast. 

While we're looking at galvanized mods, can the galvanized scope/crosshairs mods be changed to only decay one stack at a time instead of all at once? This would match the behavior of the other galvanized mods. Me and the other 3 players that still mod for headshots on steel path would really appreciate the QoL.

[Daffan]

3 hours ago, Josh486 said:

It will never change, sorry. That’s the only reasonable answer I can give you and it’s very evident from their “fix” of galvanized aptitude that there’s no way or it’s just too much effort for galvanized aptitude to work on projectiles. This mod was very clearly intended to work for everything, but just like condition overload on glaives, this mod just never worked on explosions/projectiles correctly and it never will. There’s something janky in the code that’s clearly preventing this from happening, and it’s been like this for years, DE just seized the moment of people using AOE a bunch and said that it was always meant to be this way

ok now write this post again except make it relative to projectiles not aoe

 

 

[Tiltskillet]

34 minutes ago, CrimsonKestrel said:

Also, these mods don't affect radial attacks (similar to condition overload). This is totally fine if intended, but isn't documented anywhere in-game.

The extent of the documentation is that they added the word "direct" to the mod cards in front of "damage".  It would be better if it was more clear.  "Non-AoE damage" for example.  That's leaving aside the whole projectile issue, of course.

Not sure what you mean about CO.  All melee attacks other than finishers are radial. Is there a bug there I haven't heard of?  Or maybe you're thinking of the melee projectile attacks, like glaives and quassus, I think none of which work with CO.

The rest is deep offtopic, and mostly me wanking, but...

1 hour ago, CrimsonKestrel said:

While we're looking at galvanized mods, can the galvanized scope/crosshairs mods be changed to only decay one stack at a time instead of all at once?

What's going on with the galvanized crit mods is more complicated.  I never would have grasped it without reading the wiki and even that wasn't enough. I still had to look at it in the simulacrum for quite a while.   But I think this is correct:

Each buff stack has its own timer.   Yes, right away, this is different and worse than the other Galvanized timers.  But in the normal course of things they shouldn't all decay at once.  What makes this seem like it happens is that the buff timer only shows the most recent stack, and the number of stacks shown on the UI only updates when they increase.  So it looks like we're losing them all at once, but we've been steadily losing them in the background before that.  And this is also why it's easy to get a headshot kill and plenty of time left on the buff and have the number of stacks stay the same or decrease:  if the condition is met, the counter is updating to the correct number.  (But only temporarily, lol.)

Which is all a very blah blah blah way of saying I agree with your point.  They should function like the other galvanized buffs, which work just fine in the UI.  They really  should get longer timers than the other mods, given that they require non-bleed/heat/toxin dot headshot kills rather than just any kind of kill, direct or not.  Instead of the shortest timers with the worst and most incomprehensible behavior.

 

[Josh486]

1 minute ago, Daffan said:

ok now write this post again except make it relative to projectiles not aoe

 

 

It is? It’s kind of obvious to tell from the fact that a bunch of projectiles are janky as hell with gundition overload. Same with glaives and condition overload bouncing not working properly. Try to seem sassy and cool or whatever the hell but it still applies

[Daffan]

11 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

It is? It’s kind of obvious to tell from the fact that a bunch of projectiles are janky as hell with gundition overload. Same with glaives and condition overload bouncing not working properly. Try to seem sassy and cool or whatever the hell but it still applies

The last part of your novel in particular

[(PSN)isbergen]

AOE explosions, I can understand, but most projectile non-AOE weapons, that's really bad. Every single non-AOE bow is in the "worthless" category, yet Arca Plasmor works (projectile)? Why? Just doesn't make any sense.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Josh486 said:

It will never change, sorry. That’s the only reasonable answer I can give you and it’s very evident from their “fix” of galvanized aptitude that there’s no way or it’s just too much effort for galvanized aptitude to work on projectiles. This mod was very clearly intended to work for everything, but just like condition overload on glaives, this mod just never worked on explosions/projectiles correctly and it never will. There’s something janky in the code that’s clearly preventing this from happening, and it’s been like this for years, DE just seized the moment of people using AOE a bunch and said that it was always meant to be this way

 

You're right though, that it's easy to imagine it working out that way. Particularly if  enough people  not only won't hold them accountable, but try to discourage other people from doing so. 

[nslay]

I just think that if it doesn't work for classical examples of projectile weapons like Boltor (and it doesn't)... that should be good motivation to fix these mods.

Someone said Arca Plasmor... that's small potatoes. Galvanized Savvy works correctly for Exergis. Exergis is like the last projectile weapon that needs Galvanized Savvy! Are you kidding me?!

[Josh486]

14 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

 

You're right though, that it's easy to imagine it working out that way. Particularly if  enough people  not only won't hold them accountable, but try to discourage other people from doing so. 

I just doubt it, glaives have been screwed since they’ve existed and I’ve given up hope that this thing will ever be fixed 

[Josh486]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

I just think that if it doesn't work for classical examples of projectile weapons like Boltor (and it doesn't)... that should be good motivation to fix these mods.

Someone said Arca Plasmor... that's small potatoes. Galvanized Savvy works correctly for Exergis. Exergis is like the last projectile weapon that needs Galvanized Savvy! Are you kidding me?!

Funny thing is, gundition overload on all arca plasmor type projectiles is actually overpowered, as for some reason the damage buff counts as a multiplier for the arca plasmor family of weapons and the quellor alt fire for some god forsaken reason

[nslay]

1 minute ago, Josh486 said:

Funny thing is, gundition overload on all arca plasmor type projectiles is actually overpowered, as for some reason the damage buff counts as a multiplier for the arca plasmor family of weapons and the quellor alt fire for some god forsaken reason

But you would think Boltor would be one of the test weapon for these mods... It's just one of those classical projectile weapons. It's like Braton for hitscan...

I don't know, maybe DE just uses Arca Plasmor, Exergis and a few other popular weapons and they only tested/tweaked these to work.

[Skaleek]

Beyond ridiculous that we as players have to resort to spreadsheets to document DE's failures and keep track of it. What's more, we have to "live with it" because DE can't fix their code? Big oof. They came out and released a statement on aoe weapons not being affected but couldnt come out and say hey guys, we know this is bugged and we are/aren't planning on fixing it. Gotta love it.

[CrimsonKestrel]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Not sure what you mean about CO.  All melee attacks other than finishers are radial. Is there a bug there I haven't heard of?  Or maybe you're thinking of the melee projectile attacks, like glaives and quassus, I think none of which work with CO.

yes, I mean melee projectile AoE. For example: it works on glaives directly impacting an enemy, but not the resulting explosion.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Josh486 said:

Funny thing is, gundition overload on all arca plasmor type projectiles is actually overpowered, as for some reason the damage buff counts as a multiplier for the arca plasmor family of weapons and the quellor alt fire for some god forsaken reason

Well, as the meme goes, get some more content creators abusing it and the usual "Don't tell DE" posts on the forums and maybe that's what gets this addressed.  There's already some noise about this.   I've pre-emptively avoided  gundition mods on some weapons  like Nataruk and Exergis, and steeled myself for it getting nerfed on others like Battacor and Quellor.

 

[L3512]

On 2022-01-24 at 8:08 AM, QuestWasTaken said:

I personally didn't notice the change, and either way it's still extremely confusing.

What I was trying to point out was that in almost five months DE haven't fix it.

Look at this.

Update 30.9 (2021-11-11)

• Changed the description of Galvanized Aptitude to better reflect its current function (which clarifies that area of effect damage is not included)
  • ... BUT WAIT! We want to explain why because it’s very important to us that everyone understands where we are coming from with our current design mindset. AoE Weapons are the dominant ones by every usage metric. We see this day after day. Having this bonus apply to the AoE instance felt dangerously close to a myopic choice concerning powering up player Arsenals that simply do not need it. This mod never worked on AoE, and the description now explains that to avoid confusion. We understand those seeking a different outcome will disagree with this choice, but ultimately we are not willing to further bolster AoE at this time. This is due to the increasing difficulty in creating content that serves to challenge the Tenno.

Hotfix 30.5.5 (2021-07-29)

• Fixed Galvanized Mods offering increased damage from Status on target not reliably working on numerous weapons.

Update 30.5 (2021-07-06)

• Introduced.

 

 

 

They tried to fix it but seem to give up after three months and explain it with AOE.

[ReddyDisco]

On 2022-01-23 at 11:17 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Good.   Unfortunately it sometimes seems like Content Creator attention is what motivates DE to move things up their priority list or at least tell us what's going on.

Course is clear then, take our bug reports and give them to content creators so DE takes notice and fixes, the whole bug report section in forum is a big sham anyway

[Pinegulf]

Has anyone verified the numbers? (Or subset of them.)

[nslay]

11 minutes ago, Pinegulf said:

Has anyone verified the numbers? (Or subset of them.)

I tried Boltor Prime and Exergis. The math is way off (smaller numbers than advertised) for the Boltor but functions correctly for the Exergis.

[Josh486]

1 hour ago, Pinegulf said:

Has anyone verified the numbers? (Or subset of them.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jFIcb4W_KeZ5glapDLgFasmcOt8tp_lcpId82UQSv2c/htmlview#gid=1640665966

[(PSN)thowed]

Does it work correctly with the tigris series?  Just wanna confirm because its not on the list.

[Josh486]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)thowed said:

Does it work correctly with the tigris series?  Just wanna confirm because its not on the list.

All hitscan weapons work properly with the exception of the 6 guns listed at the end

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, Pinegulf said:

Has anyone verified the numbers? (Or subset of them.)

You mean the spreadsheet numbers?  @(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom is the author, or one of the authors, so maybe they'll chime in.

Personally I've only directly tested a few.  Ignis Wraith, Nataruk, Sporothrix, and Harpak.  And then Grinlok as control weapon to verify how things are -supposed- to work.  There are a few more like Basmu and Battacor I haven't tested but the damage gain felt wonky, and this seemed to be confirmed by the spreadsheet.  

Ignis wasn't on the list, being a hitscan weapon.  But I was curious about it since it's got a weird AoE component.    Gaptitude definitely works well, although it occurs to me now that my test would only have determined that and not whether it was working too well.  

I had a better test for the rest of these, and they  all line up roughly with the spreadsheet.  I say "roughly" because I wasn't trying to pin down exact numbers, only whether the mod was working better or worse than it should relative to the average hitscan weapon. 

Nataruk:  Gaptitude is way too effective on the charged shots, and not nearly effective enough on the quick shots.

Sporothrix: works much more poorly than it should.

Harpak: Gaptitude works very poorly on the primary fire.  On the altfire I confirmed that the damage bonus doesn't apply, period.

FWIW, my test setup ended up being a head-to-head with two builds.  On one, I'd put Amalgam Serration and Heavy Caliber: 320% base damage.  And on the other Amalgam Serration and Gaptitude: what should be 315% base damage with two aptitude stacks and two status effects.  I'd make sure everything else was identical, and I'd use an Atomos modded for radiation and cold for a primer.   If Gaptitude is working correctly at 2 stacks on a properly primed target, it will get just barely smaller damage popups as the other build (normalizing for crits).

I'm sure there's easier and much more precise ways to do it, especially for someone who is better at math than I am.  But it's not hard either, if you're looking to doublecheck numbers yourself.

[Turboameeba]

Galvanized status mods have been broken for looooong time.. Being as important mods as they are, WHY havent they been fixed? It has become a common joke, and every single player knows about it as well... So Digital Extremes absolutely knows about it, but for some reason refuses to fix it.. Why? Getting super frustrated playing with things I have paid real money for, but then not able to get full potential from them with mods that would absolutely make the build tick in a special way.. This is getting on my nerves, and I am not the only one. People even post youtube rants about it, and all kinds of videos showing how broken they are. PLEASE fix them. It should't be that much to ask for few mods

Galvanized Aptitude and those Direct Damage Status chance mods

[(PSN)SWISS-ROLLIN]

Please fix this DE.