Are rework suggestions/requests worth posting?

[ImWithDerp]

Apparently DE said something to the effect of reworks not being worth the effort. Was this really said and if so is it worth suggesting/requesting reworks if that is DE's stance on reworks?

For what it's worth I do hope that reworks are still possible as that encourages me to spend money on cosmetics for frames even if the frame is mechanically out of date or underperforming. To give a couple of examples. Frost and Hydroid have some great cosmetics that I would happily buy if they were in a better state.

[LillyRaccune]

7 minutes ago, ImWithDerp said:

is it worth suggesting/requesting reworks

Yes. Post away! It will just be a while before they are acted upon.

If I remember correctly, DE_Pablo said to DE_Megan during a stream, something to the effect of: "We aren't planning and won't be investing time into warframe reworks for the immediate future". And ultimately it sounded like, 'yes they are necessary--but we're busy'.

I could be wrong, but that was my take away from the conversation. I don't even remember which stream it was. Maybe someone else will bring an exact quote?

[(PSN)WeekEnd4Ever]

hace 16 minutos, LillyRaccune dijo:

Yes. Post away! It will just be a while before they are acted upon.

If I remember correctly, DE_Pablo said to DE_Megan during a stream, something to the effect of: "We aren't planning and won't be investing time into warframe reworks for the immediate future". And ultimately it sounded like, 'yes they are necessary--but we're busy'.

I could be wrong, but that was my take away from the conversation. I don't even remember which stream it was. Maybe someone else will bring an exact quote?

It was at Tennocon this year.

[(NSW)Greybones]

I’ve always been under the impression that what we suggest on here may get heard and may get used, even if it’s in the vaguest way, like “This ability looks like this instead of this”.

It’s always hard to tell because they’re not exactly going to post in the topic with “Hey, we like your idea”, but hope springs eternal, and maybe something got read. Maybe a rework suggestion gets turned into a new Warframe, who knows.

Respectfully post away, I say. But cautiously temper expectations

[T-Shark69]

1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

If I remember correctly, DE_Pablo said to DE_Megan during a stream, something to the effect of: "We aren't planning and won't be investing time into warframe reworks for the immediate future". And ultimately it sounded like, 'yes they are necessary--but we're busy'.

At least small tweaks to make current abilities better aren't off the table. Case in point the recent cahnge to Zephyr's 2 that made it a mini Vauban 4.

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Apparently DE said something to the effect of reworks not being worth the effort.

Not quite. They said that in effect the staff that work on reworks are the same people who make new content.

So in order to justify doing reworks, it has to be a more valueable use of time than making something new. Both in terms of gameplay and financially.

[quxier]

You should post it. It's nice way to practice your language skills.

 

To be more serious, if it's not something new I wouldn't bother. They don't even fix some bugs that "new content" has. I wonder if they even read stuffs. Look at Holokeys changes.

[PsiWarp]

Post away. They are busy with New War which means before that is done there aren't any plans to do frame reworks.

Remembering the time before Helminth was introduced in Deimos, DE said that it isn't and won't be used as an excuse to not rework frames in the future.

[(PSN)thegarada]

Lack of balance is the reason why I rarely play WF anymore. About a year ago DE admitted that many frames had issues, as was indicated by statistics of skill subsititue and frame usage. DE made tiny changes to 8 frames and then called it a day.
 

And this extends to many things. DE introduces half baked stuff, which is fine, since it is free. But then makes little to no changes to fix it. And over years this accumulated. The core gameplay is not getting the attention it deserves. When I started to play the game, it felt like fun chaos ball. But now, it feels like a chore, due to lack of attention and some updates that made it worse. 

[ImWithDerp]

Thanks all, so I guess rework discussions could at least let us stew some ideas until DE are more free to attempt reworks, or maybe even pick up some ideas for new frames, depending on future priorities

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I think they can be annoying, but they are also useful and needed. Because I think DE just looks at all the reworks and basically says "Out of these 100 Ash rework threads, 80% of people asked for this specific bladestorm change."

So enough people asking for the same thing over time might make a difference. 

People should still try to be realistic though, and stop trying to add aoe armor strips and nukes to everything.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it won't cost you anything, but given that DE confirmed there won't be any reworks for a while, it might been seen as a waste of time. I'm hoping that maybe someone at DE has at least scrawled a rough list of fraems that need reworking and some basic ideas for after they are finished Developing New War. once that major update is out of the way, there should be ample opportunity for a rework to one of the older frames. 

[Tesseract7777]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I think they can be annoying, but they are also useful and needed. Because I think DE just looks at all the reworks and basically says "Out of these 100 Ash rework threads, 80% of people asked for this specific bladestorm change."

So enough people asking for the same thing over time might make a difference. 

People should still try to be realistic though, and stop trying to add aoe armor strips and nukes to everything.

I think realism should also extend to not basically suggesting entirely new powers. 

Too many people's idea of a rework/revisit is to basically create a new frame. Some of those ideas get rolled into new frames, but it is just a really bad use of resources to bog down the animation teams time with changes that require a ton of work from them. 

I think if more people suggested frame changes that didn't require a bunch of huge structural changes to the frames abilities, people would have more success getting an idea successfully implemented. 

People need to get creative and suggest how we can fix frames "under the hood" so to speak, with animation being involved as little to none as possible. 

[0_The_F00l]

You could suggest it, but honestly , I don't think DE really cares about individual warframes being effective.

They are more concerned about it being adequate enough that some players buy/build it and invest some forma/potatoes/cosmetics in it. Doesn't matter if you then never use it.

So frames that are at the absolute bottom and no one bothers to build or invest in it would probably have a higher probability of a rework.

But at the same time they can't actually make it so effective that no one bothers with the other frames ,case in point wukong, I feel that wukong rework kinda made them very concerned for any future rework ideas. Why work on new frames if there is no profit to be made ?

[Hypernaut1]

All I want is for Mesa's Ballistic Battery to be uncapped and charge passively. I've been asking for years and it seems like such a simple change. 

Someone's it seems like they don't read feedback, but then they'll make a change based on feedback. Who knows. They do what they want.

[SteveCutler]

No feedback is worth posting. DE won't care nor listen.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

19 hours ago, chaotea said:

Not quite. They said that in effect the staff that work on reworks are the same people who make new content.

So in order to justify doing reworks, it has to be a more valueable use of time than making something new. Both in terms of gameplay and financially.

In Many, more successful companies

they separate the staff into dedicated teams for both new expansions, as well as maintenance/rebalancing and bug fixes, etc....

So there doesn't need to be a conflict between QA and Fresh Hype Money.

And the resulting polish and quality is what makes them AAA studios as opposed to DE...

 

was really hoping the Tencent buyout could have brought some more staff in so they could do that kind of reorganization... its a shame

 

[Keiyadan]

i would say post it but not expect to see the change soon i mean how long the community asked for a universal vacuum mod till it finaly became a thing but if you dont ask for it other players cant post feedback to the idea and then maybe if it is a lot of aktivity DE maybe notice it

i mean my exp is at the moment i try to change a sertain thing not a big deal for many people and it would be most likely an easy fix but i already at a stage where i find i so unlikely to change that i only mention it if i encounter it to keep track of how often it happens
i most likely thing the fastest way to get it done to get a job at DE and do it myself but that is unlikely to happen

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

All I want is for Mesa's Ballistic Battery to be uncapped and charge passively. I've been asking for years and it seems like such a simple change. 

Me too. I want it to be a toggle and drain energy on proc.

[vanaukas]

Yes, but nothing guarantees that they will agree with you: Do it, nothing to lose if you were already considering doing it

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

All I want is for Mesa's Ballistic Battery to be uncapped and charge passively. I've been asking for years and it seems like such a simple change. 

Someone's it seems like they don't read feedback, but then they'll make a change based on feedback. Who knows. They do what they want.

Mesa’s power budget is capped. She’s popular, strong and working as intended. If you want something on Mesa buffed, something else needs to be nerfed, because like I said, her budget is capped.

50% of her power budget is sitting in her 4th.

 

To uncap her 1 and make the changes you want, would result in the ability being multitudes better than it was before. And that’s just not tenable on a frame who’s power budget is already capped.

 

”I’ve been asking for  for years, it seems like such a simple change.” Yeah so, the complexity isn’t the issue. Letting something scale up infinitely is easy. The difficult part is being intelligent enough to not do that.

If we applied your change to Mesa, she would have;

S tier survivability, in the form of her 95% damage reduction, and her crowd control keeping enemies locked down.

S tier wave clear from her ultimate, able to compete directly with Nuke weapons such as Bramma.

Then, S tier single target damage, with a 1st ability that costs 25 energy being able to scale up infinitely.

She would immediately be the strongest frame in the game. She would trivialise boss encounters, would see nothing but 4 Mesa Eidolon hunts etc etc.

 

So yeah, wouldn’t hold my breath were I you.

[ReddyDisco]

If a rework will make DE more buck than new content then they consider, otherwise its "we'll do it when we have the time"

[chaotea]

3 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

In Many, more successful companies

they separate the staff into dedicated teams for both new expansions, as well as maintenance/rebalancing and bug fixes, etc....

was really hoping the Tencent buyout could have brought some more staff in so they could do that kind of reorganization... its a shame

 

Different work ethic.

These are either paid games like WoW or Destiny, (where the vast majority of their income comes from sales, so having new players join is far more valueable as each is a definate sourse of income rather than a possible sourse like warframes), or Update less often with larger DLC packs which cost more or some underhanded payed content like loot boxes in which they can get large amounts of money from players with relitivly little effort from the designers.

For warframe, rehashing old content doesnt generate any, or very little revinue, so its a net loss. Its worth it if its a significant improvement to the game. But otherwise its not going to work out.

3 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

And the resulting polish and quality is what makes them AAA studios as opposed to DE...

Remember that few games are on the scale of warframes content. Warframe maintains an increadable level of quality considdering how often its updated.

Remember: Cyberpunk was delayed for over a year and still released a broken mess. Watched a GDC conference where a developer mentioned the issue in games is that everything is interconnected. You make one change to the game and it can break 2 or 3 unrelated sytems in sometimes surprising ways.

Another good example of Warframes brand of quality is this: Destiny 2 recently got into a similar position as Warframe. They had expanded the game with so much content that they could no longer continue to develop new content and keep polishing and mainting old content while maintaining thier desired level of quality. Unwilling to comprimise on the quality of exiting content, not wishing to take the risk this might degrade, they decided that producing new content was more important. To this end they cut 60% of the locations from the game, as well as numerous other aspects of content. To put this in context of the user: If you bought Destiny 2 on day one of release, you can no longer access the content you paid for.

DE has chosen, for better or worse, not to do this. If you've paid for something, DE will not remove it from the game. They have decided to repect the players investments in the game (not entirely selfless as people are more willing to spend if they know its a long term investment). The downside to this is that as the game gets bigger and bigger, the amount of people needed to fix the game will grow. This means that while DE will grow as a company, most of the work is under the hood.

 

In summery, the only way Warframe will realistically recieve the AAA pass you desire would be if they scrapped the game and made "Warframe 2". But this would most likely also invalidate every investement made to the current game and stop any further development to it.

[trst]

Considering most of the changes the game has ever gotten, and continue to get, are based out of feedback of course you should be posting it if you have it.

It might be bad and not as thought out as you think or it might be something that others would want to rally behind. Either way so long as you structure it well and provide more info than "x bad go change it" then it's worth posting.

 

And just for those who pretend that DE "never" takes feedback just looking at 30.7 alone we got the Ghoul Saw (only exists because players asked for it), more Yareli buffs (DE has no obligation to change her as she'll sell on aesthetics alone), Holokey acquisition buffs (it's not the exact change players asked for but it's still an improvement to a systems players complained about), Ambassador parts relocated (players complained about this since it released), and a number of grind reductions like Kuva Lich Thralls and Harrow (regular complaints).

[quxier]

12 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think realism should also extend to not basically suggesting entirely new powers. 

Too many people's idea of a rework/revisit is to basically create a new frame. Some of those ideas get rolled into new frames, but it is just a really bad use of resources to bog down the animation teams time with changes that require a ton of work from them. 

I think if more people suggested frame changes that didn't require a bunch of huge structural changes to the frames abilities, people would have more success getting an idea successfully implemented. 

People need to get creative and suggest how we can fix frames "under the hood" so to speak, with animation being involved as little to none as possible. 

If a frame requires simple change then I guess it's good enough. Simple more damage or different damage type will be enough to "fix" them.

However some frames require more than those simple changes. Many frames has something "broken" that requires a lot of work.

2 hours ago, trst said:

(it's not the exact change players asked for but it's still an improvement to a systems players complained about)

If player do 10 runs and get 0 Holokeys then it's not improvement AT ALL. I've got lucky to get 40ish holos and buy Exec with decent element - electricity. I don't feel like doing it again. People that get 0s on many runs won't touch Storms either.