Feedback: Ghoul Saw

[zuraja]

Double post please remove.

[Skaleek]

On 2021-09-10 at 1:40 PM, Rawbeard said:

it's not an excuse, it's a pattern.

Bingo!

[(PSN)waddie]

On 2021-09-11 at 2:06 AM, skullkid558 said:

>Attack speed of 1
>Slow AF swings

I guess the speed-o-meter was aimed at the circular-saw's edge itself, rather than the weapon.

Attack speed is relative to the weapon category. 1.0 means it’s average for an assault saw, but an average assault saw is much slower than an average dagger.

[Druach]

Yeah, the ghoulsaw is cool. I mean its like taking an oversized concrete saw into battle, but it doesn't hit like a giant-brutal-sawblade-of-death, even though it looks and sounds like a giant-brutal-sawblade-of-death. BTW kudos to the sound team, this thing sounds awesome.

I'm ok with it being awkward and slow, I mean its a giant saw, of course it should be like that. But, in return this thing should hit like a truck. The slowness and awkwardness need to be a tradeoff, but currently there is nothing we get in return for the slowness and awkwardness (aside from the cool factor).

So maybe clean up the stance (its kinda janky tbh) and buff the damage (raw damage and/or crit stats) to sky high levels to the point that the awkwardness is worth dealing with. Re-doing an entire stance may not be in the cards right now, but it needs something to make the tradeoff seem worth it.

[(XBOX)maledicus GER]

Am 10.9.2021 um 22:23 schrieb LillyRaccune:

StartMenu> Options> Display> toggle "Weapon Elemental FX"

or reduce the Effects Intensity slider on the same page of the display options.

I tried it - doesn't work. The said toggle option is just to toggle corrosive/fire/virus (etc) visual effects on the weapons themselves on/off.

[LillyRaccune]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)maledicus GER said:

I tried it - doesn't work. The said toggle option is just to toggle corrosive/fire/virus (etc) visual effects on the weapons themselves on/off.

Thanks for trying. Sorry it didn't work.

[Famecans]

more damage = bandaid

why not fix the garbage they have become primed, most melee classes will have a primed version and should be excellent in animation, increase base damage in a single weapon doesn't solve future of the same class.

New Tonfas Prime has a good future
New Glaive Prime has a good future
New Gunblade Prime has a good future

This is not a problem of Ghoul Saw, this is a problem in most of melee stance/animation, looks to Ninkondi Prime; Silva e Aegis Primed; Dual Kamas Primed...

 

[XaoGarrent]

On 2021-09-09 at 10:24 PM, KVenom said:

Yeah, but how many months or even years are we gonna have to wait for that variant?

We've still got no variants for the Jat Kitag or the Javlok for that matter, and those are old, old weapons.

This is before getting into the fact that the Shiv probably outperforms this thing in some regards, and that's an MR 5 weapon that's also status based (status focused melee weapons are almost universally bad in the current game).

It can work, but it needs a lot of support from your frame and pet, which greatly limits where and how you can use it.

[Doraz_]

Simple solutions:

 

"Ghoulish Fuel Mechanic"

 

Ghoul saw overheats as you attack EVEN WHEN not HITTING anything!!!

 

Exlecially, while you do the riding combo, you fuel/overheat meter/buff increases drammatically.

 

When you heavy attack, the weapon catches fire and "BRUMS" like an old car or farming vehicle (Scott's car anyone xD) gaining a flat base crit chance and crit damage!

 

This mifht just retain the ghoul slowness, that wven if people don't like it, it does maje the weapon feel unique.

 

Alternatively, make it work on Combo Count instead ... but that is so boring i'm almost putting myself asleep.

 

Coding required ... very little  ... maximu value, as the weapon will be forever unique and has a place in every Tenno's Arsenal.

 

[Andele3025]

On 2021-09-11 at 6:32 PM, (PSN)DidacoJack said:

• PLEASE remove the forced movement on no movement input and let the attack be completely free movement (like the first 2 attacks of Cutting Thrice in Wise Razor stance, for example). That way it would be easier to approach the enemy by buffering two attacks and then plan on the successive attacks to use (just an example).

All forward combos should be (as initially promised in the melee 2.9998 preview devstream) full free movement.
All dashes should have keyboard steer (as a ok amount used to have and as slide attack still partially has).

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2021-09-11 at 5:14 AM, Rawbeard said:

wait... wait a minute. wait. just wait!

are you telling us a gimmick weapon in Warframe is actually kinda bad?

MIND. BLOWN!

nice, my exact thought, a pure gimmick weapon, it seems DE put everything into its animations rather than any kind of performance as a weapon.

[DrBorris]

Rictus' Wraith (current forward combo) feels like a single target DPS attack, but requires you to walk forward past a target. Ghoul Rush (current neutral combo) has you do sweeping attacks, meaning you will hit everything around you but then be stuck in place.

This... makes no sense. The forward combo of a stance should be the one with sweeping strikes because you are probably wanting to swipe through groups of enemies. The only time you would want to stop moving is if you run into a single tough enemy, where you would want to more directly apply damage to them. And if you do want AoE damage without moving, that is what the neutral block combo (Reciprocator) does. The neutral combo is entirely redundant as it stands.

The staff stance Clashing Forrest has the smart version of this. The neutral combo (Resolute Flurry) has you twirl the weapon in front of you, the forward combo (Skyward Limb) is sweeping strikes.

 

Ghoulsaw has other problems. The base attack speed of the Rictus' Wraith is horrible (the multipliers wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have the longest combo durations in the game) and the stats for Ghoulsaw are also just plain bad. This isn't about that, this is about the stance combos making sense and being consistent with the trends set by past stances.

[KVenom]

В 10.09.2021 в 12:36, Kainosh сказал:

Don't have the saw yet.....  Does it multihit like Cavaliere?

I'm disappointed if it doesn't.   Saws are for continuous damage.

It only does on few certain combos, and you apparently gotta MASH for it. It is as disapointing, as it sounds.

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

To borrow a friend's wording: Ghoulsaw is "aggressively fine". Details below, includes Butcher's Revelry stance feedback.

Stance Animations:
I like that they feel appropriately hefty, but the post-swing recovery time could be trimmed back for better flow. It feels perfect what what you're doing: swinging an oversized table saw around, and it's not designed for that, so the balance would be all weird and wrong. Primed Fury solves it being fairly slow, so I don't mind the base speed all that much.

Stance Moveset:
I love the Guard+Forward, it's just so satisfying to ride a saw into your enemies, the Neutral combo is fine (the previously mentioned recovery time kinda works against it, but it's overall fine), and the Neutral Guard is incredibly fun/satisfying. That said, the Forward combo is very lackluster, I'm fine with the first move being "rev the engine and walk forward", but not the entirety of the combo being that on repeat.
I think adding some animations to replace the other 3 movements in the Forward combo would bring it up to the other combos.

Weapon Design:
No strong opinions here, it's a saw big enough to ride that looks Grineer. Which is exactly what it is.
That said, the Accent colour doesn't seem to do anything, I hovered over all manner of bright colours and didn't see a difference.

Weapon Stats:
While I've not settled on how I'm modding this, the good status, high Slash are nice. Crit... exists on this thing, but it's nothing to write home about. Again, it seems fine.

So again, Ghoulsaw is "fine", it's not great, it's not terrible, it's "fine". At least from where I'm standing.

[chaotea]

Remember that its probably designed to be 'fine' Its draw is that its a unique weapon atm. Later down the line they'll release another one which will have good stats, that'll be the draw for that one.

[HannaHxHaru]

Am 10.9.2021 um 19:14 schrieb Rawbeard:

wait... wait a minute. wait. just wait!

are you telling us a gimmick weapon in Warframe is actually kinda bad?

MIND. BLOWN!

That's a dumb mentality, just because its a gimmick doesnt mean the devs dont have to put in any effort, in both stance and weapon.

 

 

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, HannaHxHaru said:

That's a dumb mentality, just because its a gimmick doesnt mean the devs dont have to put in any effort, in both stance and weapon.

First of all I think Rawbeard was being facetious.

Second, DE regularly adds gimmicky stuff that either doesn't work very well or is wildly unbalanced. Rawbeard was poking fun at the fact that Ghoulsaw being pretty crappy is fairly run of the mill given DE's track record when it comes to adding this kind of stuff to Warframe.

I agree that they should put in more effort, but we're at what? 8 years of them doing stuff like this a few times a year? We'll probably see a small buff to the stance/stats soonish but if we don't then we likely won't see it touched until they decide to add in another stance/weapon in this new category (a year(s) from now).

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

So, got a Saw played with it, here's what I have add to the conversation on "tweaking it "

-1. Range increase 3.0

-2. i frames on heavy attack

-3. Double Rip n,ride range to 50m

-4. Give use the ability to manualy slam Rip n, ride on comand

-5. Tune up Rip n, ride's movement control ( especially on pc, im om Xbox but what I've seen on youtube look like tank control's )

-6. Swap Ghoul rush with Rip n,ride. I for one think this would improve the stance and make it easier to use

-7. Ghoul rush should have a "meter" basically it would look like a revese charging bow, based at your retical* that deplets when Ghoul rush is active, and you have to rev it to keep it going

 

All in all, I love are new War saw weapon class and hope it gets the love and attention it deserves 🤞😊💗

[Salvator_Dracerta]

18 hours ago, chaotea said:

Remember that its probably designed to be 'fine' Its draw is that its a unique weapon atm. Later down the line they'll release another one which will have good stats, that'll be the draw for that one.

Like when they release Tatsu with a bruh two-handed nikana stance animations and then release Pennant which is obviously only for heavy attack build? I hope not. Better fix it and make it better right now

[Salvator_Dracerta]

On 2021-09-11 at 12:40 AM, Rawbeard said:

it's not an excuse, it's a pattern.

Yeah. I can see it since Tatsu. Cool weapon with noob stance.

And then here comes Pennant which is only for heavy attack bruh

[DrivaMain]

The overall stance animation needs to be sped up slightly. The biggest offender is the "Gap Closer" animation.. like come on DE I get it, that small pause where you about to drop the SAW is cool and all, but it's not very practical and once the animation finishes, the enemy already moved outside of range.

[chaotea]

5 hours ago, Salvator_Dracerta said:

Better fix it and make it better right now

It doesnt need to be top tier though. Its a fairly low level event to get it from.

[Verreater]

vor einer Stunde schrieb chaotea:

It doesnt need to be top tier though. Its a fairly low level event to get it from.

Oh it doesn't need to be top tier, it just needs to not be nearly completely worthless.

The stance needs some serious fixing, because even the release of an Assault Saw with good stats won't fix the stance being the worst in the game by far unless it literally has 900 base attack in addition to good crit and status stats.

[(PSN)taz_speedy]

yeah dumped four forma on it and it's still bad, tried a heavy attack setup and it's worse than the regular setup.

lets just go full miter, give it 50% base status - it's a SAW; they *are* going to bleed. on that note: don't get slash procs often enough due to the puncture and impact being so high, why? again, it's a SAW. like bruh come on.

[skullkid558]

> Make the 'Assault Saw' weapon class 'Alarming', a unique feature among melee weapons and a minor balancing tool.

> Give the Ghoul Saw more ticks per attack to offset its low combo multiplier -which is on par with far faster melee weapons- and make better use of status-stuffing enemies. This should be the norm for Assault Saws going forward.

> Let players ride the saw by holding the melee key -after using the alt-attack- till they release. No reason not to, you can't leap and such with the saw unlike a hovering boogie-board and the attack itself is weak.

> Allow the player to hold the melee key to keep revving the saw in front of them while walking, rather than having them tap it repeatedly. This is a massive QoL fix with minimal work required and would be faithful to the original vision of the weapon as per what was shown initially.

> Swap the conditions for the neutral melee and walking melee. Holding a saw down on an enemy right in front of you, while walking you swing it wide to strike more foes... It just makes far more sense.

 

 

Done, weapon fixed.