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Opinions on Trinity? (V.S other support frames)


Grizzmoe
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I love Trinity, she is an amazing support as well as a tank all in all, you cant go wrong with her. 

I still have mixed feelings about "Well of life" since it seems kind of useless if you want to heal your team since her 4th ability does the same thing but faster and better without the extra steps however after recent changes to well of life it's good for tanking damage I guess(?)

Overall, when you join a game does it make you happy to see Trinity? Or do you think there are better support frames you would rather see in your game?

Edited by Harvenger76
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12 minutes ago, Harvenger76 said:

Overall, when you join a game does it make you happy to see Trinity?

Not in ESO, that's for sure. 99% of the time, that's just a pure (0 kills) leech.

Furthermore, her support functions are somewhat useless to me nowadays
that I'm generally self-sufficient in regards to Health and Energy thanks to Operator and Arcanes.

Someone who does their best to play as a mix of support and frontline tanking damage dealer gets a thumbs up from me though.

I still think she needs buffs / changes, her 1 is of course silly and in general I find her base durations to be unacceptable.

One thing that'd make me play her SO much more would be Link getting turned into a "conditional drain" type,
i.e. it draining Energy only while linked to enemies, allowing Energy gains while active (whether linked up or not),
plus certainly not least, not being an ability you have to recast every friggin' TWELVE seconds at base, argh.

Like seriously, the base durations of Blessing and Link were ~okay back in the day when (Warframe was a different game and)
they gave 100% invincibility / allowed map nuking and all that fun stuff (RIP infinite range heals),
but nowadays any Frame shipping with those values would just get laughed at.

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I think Trinity is outdated. Every frame has access to many methods of self-healing that are very fast and safe. (generally much faster and more reliable than depending on a Trinity teammate noticing that your health is low). The same is true for energy restore via Zenurik, Arcane Energize, Pizzas... which makes energy vampire basically only good for teams of newer players lacking those items/progression.

You're right that Trinity in today's Warframe basically becomes a mini-support (periodically prevents other players needing to remember to regen their own energy & health) while being primarily a tank by using Link & Blessing for damage reduction.

Unfortunately, the duration of the damage reduction buffs from Link & Blessing are both super low compared to similar damage reduction abilities on other frames. So if you want to play a tank-style build then Trinity is a bad choice since you end up needing to micromanage two separate short timers, instead of a single long one (or even no timer managing at all).

There's an upcoming augment for Trinity that will increase her weapon damage output, but I doubt it will help since all mobs are trash mobs and all players have AOE that wipes the room.

TLDR: I think her popularity is low because her entire support kit has been copied in Arcanes & Focus schools so she's just become unnecessary as a team player and her tank style requires micromanaging far beyond other frames' tank setups.

Edited by Sevek7
Cleaned up grammar
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I think she needs work, especially now that the days of needing an EV Trinity are pretty much over.  But other than abject newbies that would have been lacking in contribution in any frame, I can't say I've ever seen one where they weren't a worthy addition to the team.  You can nuke that much harder with someone casting EV, and random heals are always nice.

Then again, I also don't mind seeing a Nyx in harder content since they can seriously take the heat off a squad.  Many others will get all whiny about seeing someone in a Nyx or a frame that isn't the absolute meta for a given section of content.  I also don't tend to mind what anyone else is using unless they are in a frame that you have to play around, like a bad Frost, Limbo or someone bringing a Slowva to a mission like Hydron.

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I find Trinity's kit 100% worthless with how many ways we have to manage energy and health while "tank" frames are also outdated due to DR mods and shield gating. Plus the other frames that can heal offer other utilities that are far more useful.

And even when she was THE meta frame Well of Life was worthless. She was really only used for Energy Vampire and Blessing while Link was only relevant for the Link nuke build.

 

As for seeing one if my squad she's become the "unicorn" of the game to me as I've seen more Excalibur Primes than Trinities. And while I don't care what frames my squads have she's definitely the most interesting to encounter just for her rarity.

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Must agree with the others that Trinity does seem to have become a relic of the past.

Even in the "old times" I never found Well of Life useful considering how quickly warframes tend to die IF they lose health at all. Her 4th was much better for that in panic situations. In fact they should just change it into a passive regeneration or orher type of aura, perhaps increasing max hp. 

Energy vampire used to be amazing but nowdays theres so many other ways to get energy I don't typically struggle with it anymore. Havent felt like needing Trinitys energy in years. 

Suppose her 3rd and 4th still have their uses but in the more specialized builds they tend to cancel each other in effectiveness. 

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as others have said, she's not bad, just outdated; a lot of frames were made to be self sufficient because very few people actually volunteer to take a Support role. considering arcanes like Magus Repair and Arcane Energize exist, I think an entire frame themed around health/energy restore is kind of redundant. IMO they'd need to change Trinity's entire kit to be more offensive, and just have her healing and energy regen as bonuses. 

I doubt that would please the few hardcore trinity fans left, but I genuinely don't see another way of making her viable other than turning her into yet another frame that does a bit of everything.

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6 hours ago, Harvenger76 said:

Overall, when you join a game does it make you happy to see Trinity? Or do you think there are better support frames you would rather see in your game?

Armor strip, Tank, One-Shot potential and free heals, shields and energy? Duh.
1 is the Helminth slot, its not very good compared to her 4.
 

6 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Not in ESO, that's for sure. 99% of the time, that's just a pure (0 kills) leech.

Trin is meta in Eso to feed Nukers with energy, not to kill. 
 

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2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Armor strip, Tank, One-Shot potential and free heals, shields and energy? Duh.

The way you put that makes it seem as if building for all of that at once was actually possible,
when it's just not (e.g. tanking needs +Duration while EV kill setups need minimum Duration).

Furthermore, when you pump your Strength high enough for 100% Armor removal (223%, plus a Mod slot for the Augment),
that cuts into your leftover modding options somewhat severely, you're gonna have to sacrifice something.

2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Trin is meta in Eso to feed Nukers with energy, not to kill. 

As was mentioned, not just by me but also others, that Energy source is often just not needed,
and are you seriously trying to defend ZERO kills in a game mode all about killing lotsa enemies fast?

Like, I'm not talking about when someone struggles to find enemies to kill because the rest of the Squad nukes them instantly,
I'm talking about people who simply stand around, maybe tossing out an EV now and then, and that's literally all they do,
just so they don't "waste" Affinity by actually contributing to the mission in a meaningful matter.

... which is just so nonsensical anyway, if you kill some enemies in ESO they'll simply get replaced by fresh enemies,
you don't lose anything and everyone (else) just gets all the more Affinity for it.

lol </rant>

Edited by NinjaZeku
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To me it just feels like trinity overall is a very good support... if warframe was a different game.

Sure, a trinity will always be useful through energy generation and DR, but the all reactive healing doesn't really work in this game. You generally don't have time to react when somebody starts being in need of heals.

I'd much rather have a constant heal on me like wisp or oberon. But even still, I, and many others I can only imagine, always build my frames so that I can stay alive through most situations solely on my own.

So at this point I would argue that healer frames as a all are not really needed for players, I would only ever bring a healer to maintain an objectiv alive.

Don't get me wrong, I'll never complain that I have a healer in my squad, but maybe don't go in with the mindset of "I'm gonna be a forever healer in this game", because you might feel limited real quickly.

Or maybe you won't, and if so... have fun !

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1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

The way you put that makes it seem as if building for all of that at once was actually possible,

Not my intent. Just listed the pros.

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

and are you seriously trying to defend ZERO kills

Nope. i just assumed you were using a hyperbole.

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

As was mentioned, not just by me but also others, that Energy source is often just not needed,

It depends. ESO and Index for instance starve you for energy. SP has pads on cooldown. Energize and Zenurik also limit you in arcane and focus change.

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

lol </rant>

K

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She's certainly nowhere near as necessary in squads as she used to be, but as a solo frame she still has a good amount going for her. Not needing Grace or Energize gives her more options for arcane selection, and her tankiness combined with Abating Link makes her a good SP frame. So, is she still effective? Definitely. Does she need a rework? Definitely.

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15 hours ago, Harvenger76 said:

I love Trinity, she is an amazing support as well as a tank all in all, you cant go wrong with her. 

I still have mixed feelings about "Well of life" since it seems kind of useless if you want to heal your team since her 4th ability does the same thing but faster and better without the extra steps however after recent changes to well of life it's good for tanking damage I guess(?)

Overall, when you join a game does it make you happy to see Trinity? Or do you think there are better support frames you would rather see in your game?

I personally play Trinity in the near-totality of content just so that I can feel like I'm helping other players directly by topping up their health and Energy. I also swapped out Well of Life for Roar with a similar intent, so that I can also apply damage and DR buffs. When I hear the telltale healing sound and see there's another Trinity on my team, it makes me happy to see her, even if she's not necessarily going to turn the game around, as it feels good IMO to feel like someone on your team's helping you.

I do very much agree with the assessment as well: Trinity is known for being a support (not that players these days need her utility, necessarily), but it's less well known that she's also one of the most self-reliant frames in the game if built right, as she can become incredibly tanky while constantly replenishing her own resources. Well of Life is her biggest weak point, however, as it's redundant next to her 4. I would support reworking the ability into something else, along with some other modifications to her kit to make her flow better: Trinity's an old frame, and while I personally like playing her and have built her to not be too stressful to play, her kit has low durations and can lend itself to boring, spammy gameplay, which I suspect is partly why she's such a rare sight in missions.

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@Butterfly85 I've mained Protea since her release and I have to agree that she definitely feels like she can do Trinity's job all the while being more fun to play, especially since I have both arcane energies & pulse equipped and there is always the benefit of unlimited archgun ammo.

It only gets worse once you toss Repair dispensary in the mix. Considering how much of a utility sentinels & moas are, the ability to revive them as many times as you want is probably one of the best supportive abilities in the game.

Edited by Harvenger76
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18 hours ago, Harvenger76 said:

Or do you think there are better support frames you would rather see in your game?

Don't players just support themselves these days ? 

I mean the only thing I want is Parkour Velocity and Reload Speed... and very few frames offer that kind of Support :( !

 

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In the long run, every good build is self sufficient for energy and survival, nobody is building their frame to function if one of the oldest frames joins their group, and an organized group is going to focus on offensive advancement.

Even before wisp, there were very few instances where I might want a trinity in team. Dead foes are safer than healing, disabled foes are safer than healing, when survival fails, death happens too fast for a savior ability to recover you, trinity would have to revive recently killed allies as an ability, or add an auto resurrect as an augment to well of life. 

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb BahamutKaiser:

In the long run, every good build is self sufficient for energy and survival, nobody is building their frame to function if one of the oldest frames joins their group, and an organized group is going to focus on offensive advancement.

Even before wisp, there were very few instances where I might want a trinity in team. Dead foes are safer than healing, disabled foes are safer than healing, when survival fails, death happens too fast for a savior ability to recover you, trinity would have to revive recently killed allies as an ability, or add an auto resurrect as an augment to well of life. 

this.

with the introduction of wisp and her reservoirs every other supportive frame with healing, mainly trinity and oberon since garuda is hardly used for that, has gotten yet another slap straight up into their face but even before especially trinity had only niche uses.

trinity is a bless bot at this point and its nice to have her energy vamp but thats it. reservoires just offer so much more than her whole kit despite a 75% dmg reduction for everyone not being too bad. pure support frames just dont fit the game, especially nowadays considering the many ways to sustain independent of frame-choice.

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23 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

As was mentioned, not just by me but also others, that Energy source is often just not needed,
and are you seriously trying to defend ZERO kills in a game mode all about killing lotsa enemies fast?

I don't really have an opinion on this matter. I think ESO is really easy... even AOE weapons can take you through 8 rounds now. Frames and team comps haven't mattered much for ESO for some time now.

Now then... if there's a nuker in ESO, whether you're trying or not, you're going to get nearly no kills. It's really hard to compete with some nuke frames. That Trinity could try and maybe get hundreds of kills in 8 rounds, versus 3000-4000 kills from nuke frame in 8 rounds.

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19 minutes ago, nslay said:

Now then... if there's a nuker in ESO, whether you're trying or not, you're going to get nearly no kills. It's really hard to compete with some nuke frames. That Trinity could try and maybe get hundreds of kills in 8 rounds, versus 3000-4000 kills from nuke frame in 8 rounds.

Hundreds of kills would most certainly be better than (again, literally, no exaggeration) zero.

Also, an easy solution would be everyone bringing a nuke Frame :P

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Thanks to the power available in the game there is very little needed for self sustain , gone is the day of the trinity ,ironic as it is supposed to represent the three pillars of tank , dps and support , and so each frame can do it all. 

So pure support frames are kinda moot at this moment. So will I be happy if I see a trinity ? Not any more or less than any other support frame honestly.

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