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I still don't understand how they justify having "bundle only" items and no discount if you already own the skin.


(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan
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This is such a greedy business practice.  There's one dagger skin and only two dual sword skins and they are both bundle only.  There's just zero reason to not be able to purchase them separately, and zero reason to not let someone who has a deluxe skin not get a discount on the bundle it comes in.

Perfect example so that I can inb4 all the people about to come in with a "lol just plan ahead and get the bundle if you think you'll ever want what it comes with."

Someone bought be the Excal Zato skin.  Yet I can't get the items in the bundle unless I pay for a skin I already own.

Outside of greed there is no reason for it to be like this.  There are weapon skins I would spend plat on that are bundled with warframe skins I would never use.  I shouldn't have to buy a bunch of stuff just to get one thing I want, just like I shouldn't have to buy something I already own just to get something I want that only comes with it.

The fact that this has been requested so very many times over the years and they still did that atrocious lich bundle only speaks to how much they don't care and how much greedier they're going to continue to get.

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Me with Hunhow's Gift. I want the Pakal chest plate. I don't want anything else in the bundle. Because of this, I refuse to pay 516p (even though I can buy it) for 1 piece of armor. It's just a waste of plat at that point.

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I think bundle-only items are a scummy practice, but it makes money, and that's why they don't do discounts.


Long story short, if they allow you to buy the 1 exclusive item without buying the full bundle (what discount would do) they are losing money.

Do you think anybody wanted all the items in highest tier supporter bundle? No! Most people wanted 1 or 2 items from the highest tier bundle. DE knew that and that's why they put them in highest tier bundle, rather than selling them for 100plat (3-10$). Making people buy things they don't want is how a lot of companies make money.

Now you understand.... and if you still don't

Baruk is great example of this. His bundle is 565 plat and he has 1 exclusive item, 2 plat skins and 2 booster.

Prices of stuff you can get for free:

  • Baruuk - 325
  • Helm Skin - 75
  • Weapon - 150

This adds up to 550 plat. Even if you adjust for bundle discounts for individual, that means player who only wants that exclusive item will play 200-300 plat instead of 565.

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1 hour ago, Jitsuryoku said:

bundle-only items are a scummy practice, but it makes money

Which is greedy.  It's absolutely greedy.

 

1 hour ago, Jitsuryoku said:

Long story short, if they allow you to buy the 1 exclusive item without buying the full bundle (what discount would do) they are losing money.

They are losing out on plat purchases from people like me and the first comment that would have spent some plat and are now spending none.

 

1 hour ago, Jitsuryoku said:

Now you understand

You didn't state anything new.  There's no reason to be condescending about it.  I am saying I see no justification for this behavior.  It's in the title.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Which is greedy.  It's absolutely greedy.

 

They are losing out on plat purchases from people like me and the first comment that would have spent some plat and are now spending none.

 

You didn't state anything new.  There's no reason to be condescending about it.  I am saying I see no justification for this behavior.  It's in the title.

Don't take it personally, but it takes 5-6 players like you to make up for 1 full pack sale and they still want to tip at least one of those 5-6 players to buying the back. Numbers show that small number of whales generate a lot more cash than a horde of free players. It's slightly different in Warframe scenario, because free players buying plat stuff from cash store, means somebody paid for it, but still.

As for being condescending that was not my intention. Your title starts with "I still don't understand how they justify...". If you mean that literally, then I got your answer. If you didn't, then you're going into not so constructive, throwing shade at somebody, territory and you should teach others about conversation etiquette. 

Edited by Jitsuryoku
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4 hours ago, Hello said:

Me with Hunhow's Gift. I want the Pakal chest plate. I don't want anything else in the bundle. Because of this, I refuse to pay 516p (even though I can buy it) for 1 piece of armor. It's just a waste of plat at that point.

I bought that pack after making War. Still haven't replaced broken war and boy did I regret building war. A discount would have made it a far easier purchase for me. There's also a couple deluxe bundles I bought the skin forgetting about the bundle and didn't realise until too late. I'd love some kind of discount system, but I'd understand if they didn't do it. I've only seen one game I can think of that did this (For Honor) and it motivated me to spend more money knowing I wasn't losing value from my purchase by earning things in game. 

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 🤔 I hesitate to immediately cry “Greed”, but it would be nice if already-owned stuff was considered when purchasing bundles. Destiny 2 had something like that and I thought it was pretty neat and considerate

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
typo
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5 hours ago, Hello said:

Me with Hunhow's Gift. I want the Pakal chest plate. I don't want anything else in the bundle. Because of this, I refuse to pay 516p (even though I can buy it) for 1 piece of armor. It's just a waste of plat at that point.

+1 And I want Sarpa skin from Titania bundle. Afair you can buy everything separately except that skin... I'm not gonna pay for stupid skin few hundred plats.

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On 2021-09-12 at 7:47 AM, Jitsuryoku said:

Don't take it personally, but it takes 5-6 players like you to make up for 1 full pack sale and they still want to tip at least one of those 5-6 players to buying the back. Numbers show that small number of whales generate a lot more cash than a horde of free players. It's slightly different in Warframe scenario, because free players buying plat stuff from cash store, means somebody paid for it, but still.

As for being condescending that was not my intention. Your title starts with "I still don't understand how they justify...". If you mean that literally, then I got your answer. If you didn't, then you're going into not so constructive, throwing shade at somebody, territory and you should teach others about conversation etiquette. 

Not only is what you're talking about still very greedy behavior, but it also still doesn't explain any kind of logical reasoning behind putting a discount on a bundle if the skin is already owned.  Other than the extreme greed involved with the idea that they want you to pay for the skin twice if you decide you want something from the bundle later or get a skin as a gift, there is nothing that supports that behavior.  

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Too much math would be involved. How would you determine what the discount should be if you buy a skin(s) separate from the bundle? You can't discount the full price of the skin or skins since bundles tend to be lower priced than the items separate prices combined.

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10 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Too much math would be involved. How would you determine what the discount should be if you buy a skin(s) separate from the bundle? You can't discount the full price of the skin or skins since bundles tend to be lower priced than the items separate prices combined.

If the owned skin is 325 plat separate, and 210 plat in the bundle, the bundle should be 210 plat cheaper. That's not too much math.
DE must have prices even for bundle only items and also calculated bundle discounts. They can't be that amateur they just randomly set bundle prices without knowing the discount rates.

Please stop defending a greedy market act with the argument that they can't calculate the discount.

Edited by sitfesz
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10 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Not only is what you're talking about still very greedy behavior, but it also still doesn't explain any kind of logical reasoning behind putting a discount on a bundle if the skin is already owned.  Other than the extreme greed involved with the idea that they want you to pay for the skin twice if you decide you want something from the bundle later or get a skin as a gift, there is nothing that supports that behavior.  

 

Yes, DE's logic and 'justification' is just that they are Greedy.

I agree, that's the only reason I can see why things are done that way.

 

Clearly this practice bothers you, but let me ask: outside of Judeo-Christian belief systems labeling it a 'sin', is Greed Wrong?

 

 

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If Warframe is f2p game without any p2w mechanic then you cant call DE greedy over a piece of cosmetic. If some thing is bundle only  then just buy whole bundle without crying if you want it so much, in the end platinum is free also.

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20 hours ago, sitfesz said:

If the owned skin is 325 plat separate, and 210 plat in the bundle, the bundle should be 210 plat cheaper. That's not too much math.
DE must have prices even for bundle only items and also calculated bundle discounts. They can't be that amateur they just randomly set bundle prices without knowing the discount rates.

Please stop defending a greedy market act with the argument that they can't calculate the discount.

Support will correct the "mistake" of purchasing just a skin and turn it into a bundle once.  They did this for me one time, so I'm SOL now.  They knew during the request that I purchased the skin with a coupon, so when I purchased the bundle they refunded me exactly what I paid for the skin with the coupon.  I was completely fine with this, even though I think console coupons should be usable on bundled to at least some degree, but it proves that they know exactly what you paid for something and can do that math with ease.

As for the rest of you...  Defending greed is honestly what I've come to expect out of a lot of people in gaming these days.  There's a reason that devs have gotten so much worse.  There's a reason companies like EA got to where they are.

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On 2021-09-12 at 3:50 AM, Jitsuryoku said:

I think bundle-only items are a scummy practice, but it makes money, and that's why they don't do discounts.


Long story short, if they allow you to buy the 1 exclusive item without buying the full bundle (what discount would do) they are losing money.

Do you think anybody wanted all the items in highest tier supporter bundle? No! Most people wanted 1 or 2 items from the highest tier bundle. DE knew that and that's why they put them in highest tier bundle, rather than selling them for 100plat (3-10$). Making people buy things they don't want is how a lot of companies make money.

Now you understand.... and if you still don't

Baruk is great example of this. His bundle is 565 plat and he has 1 exclusive item, 2 plat skins and 2 booster.

Prices of stuff you can get for free:

  • Baruuk - 325
  • Helm Skin - 75
  • Weapon - 150

This adds up to 550 plat. Even if you adjust for bundle discounts for individual, that means player who only wants that exclusive item will play 200-300 plat instead of 565.

The counter argument is that $20 gets you 375p, and thus 565 is gonna cost you somewhere in the ballpark of $30-40 if you don't trade for it. By making a pack of something that only takes time to get that out of reach to the average player, they're basically guaranteeing that item won't sell. Especially since bundles can't be discounted on console. Especially a frame like Baruuk that, while cool, doesn't really have a niche that isn't filled by any other frame, and is only now starting to get a fanbase after two and a half years in the game. I don't understand who would actually spend 75p on helmets when they regularly rotate in and out of Nightwave, and the requirements for Cobra & Crane are really low. Outside of the 2 Argon, you could probably accidentally farm that in two sets on Hydron, if that. The only thing you can't buy in that bundle is the mandala, which is kind of odd.

So I guess the real question is "Is that bundle worth it?" And my answer is "probably not, unless you really want that mandala." I only got Baruuk when I had a 75% off coupon, and I think the hat looks stupid, so it made way more sense to buy him for 83p rather than get a bunch of goofy cosmetics for 565p. But if I want that mandala, for whatever reason, I'm stuck raising close to $35 worth of Digital Extremes Funbuxx, either by spending real money or sitting in trade chat or WFM and hoping I have something someone wants to buy for a reasonable price, and I'm stuck getting two boosters I don't need with it as part of the cost. I think it's easier just to live without, but it does look cool, and if DE would just sell it for like 75p, I would probably get it (after clearing my wishlist).

I'll never understand why people are okay with being forced to buy digital things in bundles from huge publishers. And don't tell me DE is a tiny studio. A tiny studio with over 300 employees, the largest free-to-play co-op shooter in the world that actually out-earns some larger games with 2020 revenue of $74.1m USD. I love this game, but that doesn't mean I love every aspect of how it's monetized.

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23 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Well..   people are buying it.... Regardless of how Greedy DE I would blame the Consumer for encouraging this crap buy paying for it...

My dad was a pioneer in IT, and I asked him why spam boxes were constantly filled. His explanation was simple: "People keep clicking on spam, and the spammers keep making money." Same reason garbage bundles are offered with a fun little trinket. Some people collect them and are willing to pay that sweet riven market cash on 'em.

Always remember, you're not the target demographic if you only buy the Esteem/Jade etc. bundles, or only buy a Warframe with platinum if you have a coupon. F2P games survive on the guys who see dropping $150+ every two weeks (or less) as a drop in the bucket. Meanwhile, I'm the kind of person who spends a week researching everything about a game before I pick it up, even if it's 75% off. That said, I'm pretty sure I never want to know just how much money I've spent on this game since 2013.

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On 2021-09-12 at 12:21 AM, Hello said:

I refuse to pay 516p (even though I can buy it) for 1 piece of armor.

That's how I feel about the Kuva lich hunter pack, I want the armor bits but don't care about the requiem mods and whatever. But its still an 800p bundle and because of that I'll never buy it.

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