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Minor Tweaks for huge gameplay improvements


Zippidydoda
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Don't take this the wrong way, I love this game.  Over 1500 hours clocked on Steam.  But it's so close to being so much better.  Here's some ideas DE...


Archwing:
    - Make more mods. Make it more difficult.  As it stands now, i have 4 mods in my archwing and they aren't even maxed, and i'm clearing "Steel Path" archwing maps.
    - Improve the level design.  Stop with the endless narrow corridors we have to fly through.  Just give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our archwing stuff.

Railjack:
    - Railjack upgrades should've compounded. Meaning, we should've had to grind 3 MK I pieces to build one MK II, and 3 MK II to build one MK III. Add some grind to this!
    - Similar to archwing. Make more mods. Make it more difficult. Improve the level design. Give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our railjack stuff.

Necramech:
    - Same as above. More mods. More difficulty.  Why not have defense missions on normal tiles specifically for them?  I get why you wouldn't want to allow us to use them everywhere in the current state.  But it would be so easy to have a defense mission with Necramechs.  Tweak the stats of the mobs and allow us to use our Necramechs.

"Endgame":
    - Make abitrations/Steel path have better progression.  Add a lot more rewards to the vendors for these game modes. Why not add a bunch of prime mods to the table for 400 vitus essence? Give us a grind that's rewarding.  I feel like i have no more rewards in these game modes after very little time spent in them. Why?  All that's needed is a grind that's rewarding.
    - Add a farmable "sortie" random mission with Steel path difficulty like arbitration's.  Add rewards that benefit those who chose to sit in it for 30 minutes.

The sad part is, most of these changes are tweaks a programmer could implement in a weekend. And it would give me hundreds more hours of fun. 

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Arch wing isn't hard, but nobody likes Archwing anyway. Nobody, or at least not many, will agree with adding more Archeing stuff. Prime mods in SP as rewards would destroy the prices for it and make them not worth selling. Not like they care, that's just a personal gripe.  You mention a dev can do all this in a weekend...no they can't. You're not a dev, so you have no idea the amount of would go into something like this. DE has other things on their plate atm anyway, like the new war. I realize these are ideas, but you make it sound like Devs can do anything at a moments notice for this game. That's just not true.

Edited by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario
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3 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Arch wing isn't hard, but nobody likes Archwing anyway. Nobody, or at least not many, will agree with adding more Archeing stuff. Prime mods in SP as rewards would destroy the prices for it and make them not worth selling. Not like they care, that's just a personal gripe.  You mention a dev can do all this in a weekend...no they can't. You're not a dev, so you have no idea the amount of would go into something like this. DE has other things on their plate atm anyway, like the new war.

I'm a nobody who also dislikes Archwing, but as i see it that's because the maps suck and the mods/weapons grind is nonexistent.  So i don't follow your logic.

 

As for "destroying" the prices of prime mods, i never said give them away like candy.  I'm perfectly fine with a primed mods costing me the equivalent of 10-20 hours of grind to buy just one.  The market prices will always be based on the effort required to obtain them.  So i don't follow your logic here as well. 

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27 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Archwing:
    - Make more mods. Make it more difficult.  As it stands now, i have 4 mods in my archwing and they aren't even maxed, and i'm clearing "Steel Path" archwing maps.
    - Improve the level design.  Stop with the endless narrow corridors we have to fly through.  Just give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our archwing stuff.

They talked about Archwing missions being completely removed, & only used along with Railjack with modular archwings

 

29 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Railjack:
    - Railjack upgrades should've compounded. Meaning, we should've had to grind 3 MK I pieces to build one MK II, and 3 MK II to build one MK III. Add some grind to this!
    - Similar to archwing. Make more mods. Make it more difficult. Improve the level design. Give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our railjack stuff.

Some people got batsh*t crazy when they were told the Railjack could be forma'd, so I don't think they will agree with your ideas

Plus, the amount of drops is faster than how it was before. Your idea would make getting MKIII weapons even faster

 

31 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Necramech:
    - Same as above. More mods. More difficulty.  Why not have defense missions on normal tiles specifically for them?  I get why you wouldn't want to allow us to use them everywhere in the current state.  But it would be so easy to have a defense mission with Necramechs.  Tweak the stats of the mobs and allow us to use our Necramechs.

Necramechs will supposedly have a more important role during TNW, they will most likely be more expanded upon with it

 

33 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Why not add a bunch of prime mods to the table for 400 vitus essence?

Do you realise the vast majority of players gets about 4 of them per mission, on top of the missions themselves not being appreciated by a lot of us, that's a big no for me

 

36 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

The sad part is, most of these changes are tweaks a programmer could implement in a weekend. And it would give me hundreds more hours of fun. 

Yes, you. Thing is, you may or may not have noticed, but there are other players other than you with different views on the system

 

You think these are obviously good changes, while someone else might think they are ridiculous

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45 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Archwing:
    - Make more mods. Make it more difficult.  As it stands now, i have 4 mods in my archwing and they aren't even maxed, and i'm clearing "Steel Path" archwing maps.

Archwing isn't true 'steel path', Salacia in Neptue has lvl 77-82 whereas the other nodes have lvl 129-131, Archwing missions had the same modifiers and lvls as other sp nodes but that made them impossible to do with archwing weapons so they were nerfed few weeks after.

49 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

Why not add a bunch of prime mods to the table for 400 vitus essence?

49136765.jpg

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54 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

I'm a nobody who also dislikes Archwing, but as i see it that's because the maps suck and the mods/weapons grind is nonexistent.  So i don't follow your logic.

 

As for "destroying" the prices of prime mods, i never said give them away like candy.  I'm perfectly fine with a primed mods costing me the equivalent of 10-20 hours of grind to buy just one.  The market prices will always be based on the effort required to obtain them.  So i don't follow your logic here as well. 

What I mean is, I'm aware that they wont be given away like candy...but it doesnt matter. The price will plummet if you so much as give a feasible farm for such expensive mods. People are already sitting on hundreds, possibly thousands of SE, and you still think that won't make prices drop for said mods? Like I said it's a personal gripe, but you can't ignore that. For Archwing...again, its archwing. Very few people actually care about it besides faster travel speeds in open worlds. Not many people want more added to a system people already feel lukewarm about.

Edited by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario
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Archwing is in Limbo as the last plan DE had for it was to axe the mode entirely and fold all of Archwing into Railjack. But as it stands Archwing has no purpose other than enabling the slingshot and being a taxi. Adding Archwing content isn't going to solve all the failings of it.

Why add more grind to Railjack when it already has the random stat rolls + fusion system? I'll give you a +1 for RJ based endless but it wouldn't justify adding more mods nor reasons to put more forma into one.

Orphix missions already exist more or less as a semi-endless mode for Mechs. But mech content is also in limbo as they put themselves into a corner by making them too strong for regular content. They've already caused issues for Lich/Sister fights as their DR calculation had to consider using mechs vs them.

How is absurd levels of grind supposed to be rewarding? And just as you already exhausted the various shops you'll just exhaust new rewards and go back to asking for more.

 

Literally not a single thing mentioned here is a "tweak" nor could a programmer implement any of them over a weekend. You're talking about large scale additions and entire system reworks, most of which would take months to make and put out.

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41 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Missed the part where I said not many, because not everyone likes it. The people who do like it are so small in number compared to those who criticize it.

I think its more complicated than we all assume
I like archwing I dont like bumping into everything every other second in claustrophobic maps
I like concept of archwing design and combat i dont like missions we have for archwing
I like archwing weapons how they look how they feel i dont like how limited we are in using them while at the same time i dont like how few of them we have
I like archwing on open worlds i dont like that i cant use archgun there well unless im riding necramech eee logic?
I like underwater archwing its cool idea i would beg tyl regor to let me join his forces just to blow up whole uranus (underwater archwing + open words? Let that sink in for a moment)

Even as you say most ppl dont like archwing i bet most ppl could stand behind what i wrote above

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31 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

What I mean is, I'm aware that they wont be given away like candy...but it doesnt matter. The price will plummet if you so much as give a feasible farm for such expensive mods. People are already sitting on hundreds, possibly thousands of SE, and you still think that won't make prices drop for said mods? Like I said it's a personal gripe, but you can't ignore that. For Archwing...again, its archwing. Very few people actually care about it besides faster travel speeds in open worlds. Not many people want more added to a system people already feel lukewarm about.

You're simply stating a very specific and easily overcome hurdle.  How does that refute my entire macro level design philosophy for tweaking the endgame rewards for grinding?  And why focus purely on my example of primed mods.  The items added to the store could be forma, rare resources, cosmetics, weapons, etc etc.  Add a lot of things. 

 

As for Archwing - I'm your average gamer and i see potential in archwing.  And you don't so some reason...  Not sure how to respond to that.

 

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52 minutes ago, Zippidydoda said:

You're simply stating a very specific and easily overcome hurdle.  How does that refute my entire macro level design philosophy for tweaking the endgame rewards for grinding?  And why focus purely on my example of primed mods.  The items added to the store could be forma, rare resources, cosmetics, weapons, etc etc.  Add a lot of things. 

 

As for Archwing - I'm your average gamer and i see potential in archwing.  And you don't so some reason...  Not sure how to respond to that.

 

I thought the only example you had was primed mods, in which case, my bad for interpreting that poorly. Archwing is just a matter of taste. I don't like it, you and some others do, its whatever. Different taste for different people.

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57 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

I think its more complicated than we all assume
I like archwing I dont like bumping into everything every other second in claustrophobic maps
I like concept of archwing design and combat i dont like missions we have for archwing
I like archwing weapons how they look how they feel i dont like how limited we are in using them while at the same time i dont like how few of them we have
I like archwing on open worlds i dont like that i cant use archgun there well unless im riding necramech eee logic?
I like underwater archwing its cool idea i would beg tyl regor to let me join his forces just to blow up whole uranus (underwater archwing + open words? Let that sink in for a moment)

Even as you say most ppl dont like archwing i bet most ppl could stand behind what i wrote above

Alot of what you said, I do agree with actually. Those are all the reasons I dont like it personally, and it's probably the exact same for alot of people.

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3 hours ago, Zippidydoda said:

 

"Endgame":
    - Make abitrations/Steel path have better progression.  Add a lot more rewards to the vendors for these game modes. Why not add a bunch of prime mods to the table for 400 vitus essence? Give us a grind that's rewarding.  I feel like i have no more rewards in these game modes after very little time spent in them. Why?  All that's needed is a grind that's rewarding.
    

I probably agree most with this. I like those modes but at this point I just find myself grinding for kuva, relic packs for new prime releases, and the occasional riven. 
 

I’d even be happy if they added a new color palette where you had to grind out each color and make some duo tone or some sort of special gimmick for a few of them. That’s my dream 😊

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i like more options in general, the base gameplay is solid and satisfying, we just need variations and different places to get rewards. i think this game should do away with if you want x you have to go to y and do z and move more in the get x tokens to give a vendor and choose from a wide variety of loot.

if i only want to play survival missions for example i should have a way to eventually get the loot i want even if that specific mission type or node doesn't reward you with that loot item directly.

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7 hours ago, Zippidydoda said:

Archwing:
    - Make more mods. Make it more difficult.  As it stands now, i have 4 mods in my archwing and they aren't even maxed, and i'm clearing "Steel Path" archwing maps.
    - Improve the level design.  Stop with the endless narrow corridors we have to fly through.  Just give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our archwing stuff.

I can definitely get behind this, but since Railjack, Archwing has only ever really been used as a means to get between the Railjack and the objective tiles (ships, missile platforms etc.): even long before then, hardly anybody bothered with Archwing, and DE weren't going to invest in a mode that they believe won't see much in the way of returns. (I know Lunaro exists but the difference there is DE genuinely thought it would become popular, and it didn't). 

because of that, We've been stuck with mostly basic mods on All archgear, but now that Archwings are useable in open worlds, and Archguns can be heavy weapons and used on Necramechs, it's time to revisit the kit. DE already planned to solve *some* of the Archwing issues by making them modular and *hopefully* buff their abilities, but Archguns need love too, and Archmelee weapons are just.. woeful, to say the least. the wisest time to rework it all is ASAP whilst there is still only a small pool of items that need to be tweaked.

7 hours ago, Zippidydoda said:

Railjack upgrades should've compounded. Meaning, we should've had to grind 3 MK I pieces to build one MK II, and 3 MK II to build one MK III. Add some grind to this!
    - Similar to archwing. Make more mods. Make it more difficult. Improve the level design. Give us an open map defense mission with endless waves and scaling mobs. Give us a reason to forma our railjack stuff.

they probably should have drawn out the Railjack upgrade progression in hindsight, but I'm thankful they didn't: the game has enough grind already, and unless you were willing to brave Archwing vs fighters - which isn't fun btw - you still had to get enough Mk I gear to make your ship strong enough for missions dropping Mk II gear, and then again to move from Mk II to Mk III. we didn't have AI crew back then either, so your choices were to either run around like a headless chicken doing everything yourself, spend howerver long in recruit chat, or risk a public groups and pray to jesus you don't get a squad of incompetent buffoons.

I do want to see new Railjack stuff in New War though, let us strap some Sentient-style cannons on our ships! or give us the Tempestarii's cannons!

7 hours ago, Zippidydoda said:

Necramech:
    - Same as above. More mods. More difficulty.  Why not have defense missions on normal tiles specifically for them?  I get why you wouldn't want to allow us to use them everywhere in the current state.  But it would be so easy to have a defense mission with Necramechs.  Tweak the stats of the mobs and allow us to use our Necramechs.

Necramechs actually got surprisingly decent mod variety almost out of the gate. as for modes designed for them, I can tell you now that it would just be bullet sponge hell, anything less could be steamrolled with Arquebex, and given the DR changes given to Liches, Sisters and now Hemocytes, it's pretty clear DE are doing everything they can to prevent Voidrig from facerolling missions. the only cool scenario I can think of with the mechs would be a Sentient Boss fight that uses Orphixes, or the Mechs allowing us a direct confrontation with Eidolons without needing to go through the phases and just defeating them with brute force. 

this is also why DE aren't mentioning Necramechs in Normal missions: it's not goign to happen, they just won't mention it at all and hope we forget. it's been swept under the rug. 

7 hours ago, Zippidydoda said:

Endgame":
    - Make abitrations/Steel path have better progression.  Add a lot more rewards to the vendors for these game modes. Why not add a bunch of prime mods to the table for 400 vitus essence? Give us a grind that's rewarding.  I feel like i have no more rewards in these game modes after very little time spent in them. Why?  All that's needed is a grind that's rewarding.
    - Add a farmable "sortie" random mission with Steel path difficulty like arbitration's.  Add rewards that benefit those who chose to sit in it for 30 minutes.

oof at the cost of those mods. it's 20 Vitus essence for the incredibly strong Galvanized mods, for 400 essence I'd want a mod that gives me Arquebex in all weapon slots lol.

you keep mentioning "grind that's rewarding", but I think you're failing to see that rewards are rather subjective: what's valuable to you might be something I have an abundance of. plus DE try to cater more and more to the casual players these days, hence why there aren't scaling rewards for endless runs, and few grinds that can't just be skipped with plat and/or trading.

overall I agree with a lot of the things you want, but I wouldn't bother with the fallacy of "endgame content". better Archwing, Railjack and Necramech content I'd definitely be up for, thoguh not every player will agree with me on that one lol.

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16 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

oof at the cost of those mods. it's 20 Vitus essence for the incredibly strong Galvanized mods, for 400 essence I'd want a mod that gives me Arquebex in all weapon slots lol.

I went extreme with those numbers just to make sure no one can say i just want free stuff lol.  But to be clear, if it takes me 5-7 hours of grind to get one primed mod, that's ok with me.  However many SE or Vitus that takes. 

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The suggestion is cool but are just not practical at "all", instead of getting primed mods from arbitrations.

What about more galvanised mods?

And the fact that you want it to be harder and make it more grindeer.(what is the word for it?)

But I understand that you want to have something to do with the game.

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