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making the ghoulsaw fun and functional.


TheKurtiStryke
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Adding more damage? increasing multiplier numbers? increasing status or critical chance/damage?

 

nope, nope and still nope.

 

Call me crazy, but i like the ghoulsaw( even in it's current state), it's fun to use and "quite satisfying  to wield", the damage?, the damage it's ok(personal opinion), it could be better, but...it is what it is(still good thou)

The real problem for the ghoulsaw, is the attack speed and the range, the stance itself isn't that bad, but it's a bit inconvinient(due to such low attack speed and short range).

Hek, i had to put primed fury+quickering+gladiator vice to soften that clunkyness and make bearable the slowness( i know, there are frames that can increase the attack speed, but that's not the point).

 

so, increasing a bit the attack speed alongside witht he range, would be a good start.

can you please De?

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Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

Melee was never as OP as your generalization skills. Maybe you need to be nerfed.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

Agreed, I've seen Sabuuchi's video on it, & I don't know how, but he couldn't even kill a lvl 100 Heavy Gunner

 

It's a little slow even with Berserker & Quickening, but it kills just fine, how the f*ck are you people building your weapons?

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19 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

I'm always against powercreep but even I think it does too little damage for its speed. And it's stance does have the lowest damage multipliers on top of having very few multi hits.

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20 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

People are judging items based on Steel path now. So there will be endless whining until every new item can turn steel path into a star chart mission. They expect the same exact ttk. 

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20 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

dude, check my profile, i never complained about the melee damage before or after the nerf(to be honese, i almost never use melee weapons)....i just said that the slow attack speed and low ranage are annoying for this weapon...i'm not expecting the ghoulsaw to oneshot enemies above level 4000, i just think that the attack speed and range are bad.

 

 

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I think if it could do lots of rapid ticks of damage at once with each hit, instead of just one, it's damage output would be much better without needing to buff it's stats: it IS a rotating blade after all, so it's going to keep causing damage every moment it's in the target's flesh, cutting it away. you could think of it as working like multishot or Beam weapons: instead of dealing 700 damage on hit for example, it would tick 5 times as the saw cuts through the enemy, dealing 700 damage with each tick.

that plus the additional damage from slash procs, combo multipliers and other mods taken into account should easily put the Ghoulsaw on Par with other melee weapons IMO.

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3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

 

The Ghoulsaw itself being weak is not an issue,but the stance being weak is a problem because it's going to hinder all the future Assault Saws they release.

It's reasonable to want it buffed.

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The main thing, I think, that would need to be done is the same thing behind all the balance issues in the game.

For DE to re-evaluate what's supposed to be useful in the game, and make steps for things other than the best area-clearing tools to be considered valuable. There's nothing wrong with a big saw that's useful for taking out big targets but not crowds, were there any big targets that actually warrent special attention.

 

(Although, yes, I have seen some of the maths behind the stance, and I'll admit, even my 'the game's balance is way more messed up than just X topic' stance doesn't justify it in this case)

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OK, I just levelled it to 30, and whilst I still agree that they under-damage, especially for its speed. 

But...

 

Good gravy, it feels good to be using a weapon that plays like a WEAPON, not another means of accruing meaningless skinner-box points like far too many other weapons are in Warframe. It's a heavy weapon, and unlike the great swords, it actually feels like a heavy weapon. Cumbersome if improperly used, but having huge attack windows. It 100% needs to hit harder to really sell that, but I am so glad that this weapon takes up the player's full body. I'm a strong believer that freedom of movement on melee weapons should be limited to the 'lighter' melee weapons for the purpose of distinguishing them from larger, heavier weapons, and facilitating more  impressive and meaningful animations.

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I think the ghoulsaw gets undeserved flak, partly because it was hyped up and teased for years and the low stats. Its MR7, its not gonna be amazing or hold a candle to the top melees, its a source of dumbfun which it delivers.....but i have one problem with it, the standing E combo has an unneeded delay before the attack can begin again which kinda kills the flow imo

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Most melee stances in the game are garbage in general, this is no exception. Dumb fun is one thing, but can a gigantic videogame chainsaw be semi-viable like it is in almost everything else? Do we seriously need to show some footage from Gears of War or Madworld? We tote around archguns without too much issue, why is this thing the exception. Not even Arm Cannons come with downsides quite like this. After 3-4 years worth of waiting, a slow, clumsily sluggish weapon is the last thing players need after the attack speed nerf!

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15 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

People are judging items based on Steel path now. So there will be endless whining until every new item can turn steel path into a star chart mission. They expect the same exact ttk. 

its not so much that it cant kill, there are plenty of cool weapons that have that issue.

thats that its the slowest weapon in the game, and deals less damage than a whole bunch of weapons faster than it.

ontop of that its a status weapon that cant relyably stack status effects becouse its very slow.

its fine if its not the best weapon in the game, but if you're gonna have a really slow and cool weapon it really should hit HARD.

 

becouse its just no fun when i take like 3 seconds to saw a grineer in half, and then someone rushes by with a toothpick and slashes 3 of em down just passing by.

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34 minutes ago, Cybercobra2 said:

its not so much that it cant kill, there are plenty of cool weapons that have that issue.

thats that its the slowest weapon in the game, and deals less damage than a whole bunch of weapons faster than it.

ontop of that its a status weapon that cant relyably stack status effects becouse its very slow.

its fine if its not the best weapon in the game, but if you're gonna have a really slow and cool weapon it really should hit HARD.

 

becouse its just no fun when i take like 3 seconds to saw a grineer in half, and then someone rushes by with a toothpick and slashes 3 of em down just passing by.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Strike

And some other ways are listed here:

 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Speed

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16 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Warframe community: "oh man melee so OP, someone needs to do something about this."

Warframe community: "I can't kill with melee."

So what is it? 

Are the players just not aware of how to do damage (most likely) or is it actually weak? Or is it just common sense that it's an event weapon that's not meant to be the next kronen prime? 

Because apparently, wanting a single melee weapon to be usable equates to wanting the entirety of melee weapons to be able to casually one-shot enemies on the Steel Path. Nuance? Never heard of her.

Personally, my issue with the Ghoulsaw is that its stance is clunky: the combos have awful damage multipliers when compared to other stances, but that could be fixed easily enough by speeding up the animations, as suggested by the OP, or just increasing the numbers. The bigger issue, in my opinion, and one not entirely based on balance, is that the weapon's biggest selling points are held back by awfully contrived animations: the weapon would normally lend itself perfectly to holding down the attack button to saw enemies continuously, but instead we have to basically whack enemies repeatedly with it. The riding animation on the gapcloser looks really cool... for about half a second, after which point we're forced to get off the ride and end in an underwhelming slam attack. These animations should not be finite; we should be able to saw enemies for as long as we want, and ride the saw as long as we feel like it as well. Neither would make the weapon overpowered by any stretch either, it'd just make it more fun.

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49 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Because apparently, wanting a single melee weapon to be usable equates to wanting the entirety of melee weapons to be able to casually one-shot enemies on the Steel Path. Nuance? Never heard of her.

Personally, my issue with the Ghoulsaw is that its stance is clunky: the combos have awful damage multipliers when compared to other stances, but that could be fixed easily enough by speeding up the animations, as suggested by the OP, or just increasing the numbers. The bigger issue, in my opinion, and one not entirely based on balance, is that the weapon's biggest selling points are held back by awfully contrived animations: the weapon would normally lend itself perfectly to holding down the attack button to saw enemies continuously, but instead we have to basically whack enemies repeatedly with it. The riding animation on the gapcloser looks really cool... for about half a second, after which point we're forced to get off the ride and end in an underwhelming slam attack. These animations should not be finite; we should be able to saw enemies for as long as we want, and ride the saw as long as we feel like it as well. Neither would make the weapon overpowered by any stretch either, it'd just make it more fun.

Not my problem, that's on the youtubers and whoever else bombarded DE with nerf melee rhetoric.

Just like the people complaining about their riven dispos lowering over time now got us instant 0.5s. 

And if you can't understand why an infinite riding combo would never be implemented, you're beyond help. Hope your fantasy comes true one day. I'll bet plat it won't but that's just my opinion.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Not my problem, that's on the youtubers and whoever else bombarded DE with nerf melee rhetoric.

Just like the people complaining about their riven dispos lowering over time now got us instant 0.5s. 

You did decide to make your problem though when you chose to make absurd generalizations based on the moronic assumption that the playerbase is some sort of hive mind, rather than the collection of people with different opinions that it truly is. Whining against some imaginary enemy may sure be good for farming easy upvotes from people who also thrive on negativity, but it certainly doesn't make for intelligent discourse.

16 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

And if you can't understand why an infinite riding combo would never be implemented, you're beyond help. Hope your fantasy comes true one day. I'll bet plat it won't but that's just my opinion.

I'm actually curious as to what you find so overpowered with the idea. I've played this game for thousands of hours, and it only took me a few seconds to observe that I could get anywhere I wanted far more easily by just bullet jumping, compared to riding around on that saw even if it were always-on. What would be so bad with an infinite riding combo, pray tell?

Edited by Teridax68
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16 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

You did decide to make your problem though when you chose to make absurd generalizations based on the moronic assumption that the playerbase is some sort of hive mind, rather than the collection of people with different opinions that it truly is. Whining against some imaginary enemy may sure be good for farming easy upvotes from people who also thrive on negativity, but it certainly doesn't make for intelligent discourse.

I'm actually curious as to what you find so overpowered with the idea. I've played this game for thousands of hours, and it only took me a few seconds to observe that I could get anywhere I wanted far more easily by just bullet jumping, compared to riding around on that saw even if it were always-on. What would be so bad with an infinite riding combo, pray tell?

Probably for the same reason the hammer and heavy sword stances don't allow infinite spinning.

And using "fun" isn't a valid reason to do whatever you want, either. 

I can say "buff saryn, she's a dps frame and it would be more fun."

But that sounds kinda silly now, doesn't it?

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Probably for the same reason the hammer and heavy sword stances don't allow infinite spinning.

And using "fun" isn't a valid reason to do whatever you want, either. 

Infinite spinning isn't a mobility move, though, it's a powerful radial damage move. Riding on the ghoulsaw, by contrast, is crap for damage but okay for mobility, which is why an infinite riding combo would be firmly within "just for fun" territory. Comparing the two just because there's some sort of spinning involved there somewhere makes about as much sense as calling a skyscraper a beach just because it contains some form of sand.

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I can say "buff saryn, she's a dps frame and it would be more fun."

But that sounds kinda silly now, doesn't it?

Not entirely, if you chose to buff her in an aspect that didn't make her even more of a DPS monster (which would make her less fun for most people involved, as is already the case). Again, this is why nuance is important, and why you should probably learn to actually talk with people, instead of mocking everything and everyone without exercising any actual critical thinking.

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