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Looks like it's time to tone down slash and viral


TheArmchairThinker
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Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

But then again isn’t the purpose to make it not as strong so I can have “challenge”?

my brain be hurt.

Usually what I tend to do is take a thing out for a spin at its core power level, see how far I get, and then figure out what I want to add. Starting from the start works pretty well, and it takes a few tries before I'm like "There's just no way I'm making it through this fight without something changed".

Starting from the end and working backwards doesn't work so well, I find. That's just me though

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Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Usually what I tend to do is take a thing out for a spin at its core power level, see how far I get, and then figure out what I want to add. Starting from the start works pretty well, and it takes a few tries before I'm like "There's just no way I'm making it through this fight without something changed".

Starting from the end and working backwards doesn't work so well, I find. That's just me though

But mods are the main difference… I don’t start from the end and work backward. I run a level 20 grineer rescue mission with my new frame/weapon see how it works, abort, put mods in and go to hydron….. no wait sorry like I said my brain be hurt so that was the wrong order.

 

Correction: But mods are the main difference… I don’t start from the end and work backward. I run a hydron with my new frame/weapon see how it works, max it out, then re-run hydron at max rank to test its full potential, abort, then mod it and catalyst if I like it.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

But mods are the main difference… I don’t start from the end and work backward. I run a level 20 grineer rescue mission with my new frame/weapon see how it works, abort, put mods in and go to hydron….. no wait sorry like I said my brain be hurt so that was the wrong order.

 

Correction: But mods are the main difference… I don’t start from the end and work backward. I run a hydron with my new frame/weapon see how it works, max it out, then re-run hydron at max rank to test its full potential, abort, then mod it and catalyst if I like it.

Mods are the main difference. Our equipment doesn't get intrinsically stronger except Warframes, and even then a level 30 Warframe won't need survival mods at Hydron

edit: I'm pretty sure a level 30 Warframe won't need mods at all, but don't quote me on that

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
are, not only
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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Mods are the main difference. Our equipment doesn't get intrinsically stronger except Warframes, and even then a level 30 Warframe won't need survival mods at Hydron

Exactly, so you could just look at the stats and shoot the gun once and then create a build, because a build makes any gun string…. Not again….

string…molesse

PLEASE*

String

STRONG!

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Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Exactly, so you could just look at the stats and shoot the gun once and then create a build, because a build makes any gun string…. Not again….

string…molesse

PLEASE*

String

STRONG!

That's correct. And a player can make the build overpowered or underpowered or however-powered a player wants. Modless is technically a core build, but trying to say that on the Warframe forums is a crime punishable by death.

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Exactly, so you could just look at the stats and shoot the gun once and then create a build, because a build makes any gun string…. Not again….

string…molesse

PLEASE*

String

STRONG!

We don't even need to equip damage mods for some content. If there's something else I'd rather equip, I'm equipping that instead

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8 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Punchrough is a waste of mod space, I got less recoil and more ammo from arcane merciless, I got status from that corrupted vor mods.,,

hm i could replace the fire rate mods for status or critical delay like my Ignis wraith build…

Two base damage mods plus merciless and four mods for viral and yet you consider replacing fire rate with critical delay or more status?

It's like a mix of limited dps but no utility like @(NSW)Greybones is suggesting.

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6 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Two base damage mods plus merciless and four mods for viral and yet you consider replacing fire rate with critical delay or more status?

It's like a mix of limited dps but no utility like @(NSW)Greybones is suggesting.

Can a gun have utility? A gun is meant to kill. Status, crit and some damage are the best if you want to kill.

punch through is a waste of mod space, really it is.

3 mods for viral actually, and I didn’t go primed and I wouldn’t even if I could.

if you want utility guns tell me how to make my gun more focused on utility. What mods exactly should I add or replace?

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14 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

That's correct. And a player can make the build overpowered or underpowered or however-powered a player wants. Modless is technically a core build, but trying to say that on the Warframe forums is a crime punishable by death.

How, lol.

 

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

We don't even need to equip damage mods for some content. If there's something else I'd rather equip, I'm equipping that instead

I equip damage because 80% of this game involves killing and damage helps doing that. I don’t LIKE it but it’s most of the game… I might try getting a fulmin see how it works.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Can a gun have utility? A gun is meant to kill. Status, crit and some damage are the best if you want to kill.

punch through is a waste of mod space, really it is.

3 mods for viral actually, and I didn’t go primed and I wouldn’t even if I could.

if you want utility guns tell me how to make my gun more focused on utility. What mods exactly should I add or replace?

I'd certainly hope your gun is killing, otherwise you're gonna need to up its damage with mods.

Exilus mods are good utilities. Increased stability, increased accuracy, increased weapon swap speed (really comes in handy when switching between two weapons configured for two different resistances). Game doesn't stop us from equipping multiple Exilus mods, it just gives us a slot that we can put one into if the rest of our gun is full of other mods

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I'd certainly hope your gun is killing, otherwise you're gonna need to up its damage with mods.

Exilus mods are good utilities. Increased stability, increased accuracy, increased weapon swap speed (really comes in handy when switching between two weapons configured for two different resistances). Game doesn't stop us from equipping multiple Exilus mods, it just gives us a slot that we can put one into if the rest of our gun is full of other mods

Ambassador does well if I go max, without Harrow Ignis Wraith shreds anything under level 200, which Harrow shreds anything below 400/450. I use Eximus mods and usually use ammo mutations but Ignis wraith doesn’t need it, and sadly I don’t have that many good Eximus mods…. STOP REPLACING MY EXIMUS WITH EXILUS AUTOCORRECT! EXIMUS ISN’T EVEN A REAL WORD!

oh my goodddd..

exilus

Edited by (PSN)Reaper330011
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Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

How is punishable by death

Look around at this community. Modless? Get outta here with that crazy talk; everything must have mods equipped, and they must be the powerful stuff.

Nothing gets a chance to stand on its own merits before we get our hands all over the piece of equipment and start assuming that it needs to instantly kill or be immortal.

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Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Look around at this community. Modless? Get outta here with that crazy talk; everything must have mods equipped, and they must be the powerful stuff.

Nothing gets a chance to stand on its own merits before we get our hands all over the piece of equipment and start assuming that it needs to instantly kill or be immortal.

Lol

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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Look around at this community. Modless? Get outta here with that crazy talk; everything must have mods equipped, and they must be the powerful stuff.

Nothing gets a chance to stand on its own merits before we get our hands all over the piece of equipment and start assuming that it needs to instantly kill or be immortal.

It’s a bad mentality but… 😂 

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Ambassador does well if I go max, without Harrow Ignis Wraith shreds anything under level 200, which Harrow shreds anything below 400/450. I use Eximus mods and usually use ammo mutations but Ignis wraith doesn’t need it, and sadly I don’t have that many good Eximus mods…. STOP REPLACING MY EXIMUS WITH EXILUS AUTOCORRECT! EXIMUS ISN’T EVEN A REAL WORD!

oh my goodddd..

exilus

I feel you about the lack of Exilus mods, though it's pretty rare that I don't have them equipped whenever possible. I'm all for the idea of DE introducing a lot more utility or weird options when we simply don't need all the damage mods

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I feel you about the lack of Exilus mods, though it's pretty rare that I don't have them equipped whenever possible. I'm all for the idea of DE introducing a lot more utility or weird options when we simply don't need all the damage mods

Also it’s hard to find exilus adapters too but in general I haven’t got even ONE good exilus mods excluding ammo mutations.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Also it’s hard to find exilus adapters too but in general I haven’t got even ONE good exilus mods excluding ammo mutations.

I expect the answer is to search for some, but if there's simply nothing that you have that catches your eye, don't feel pressured to fill up that piece of equipment (Warframe or Weapon) if it just won't get you what you're looking for. I've done a Pavlov spy with a hammer equipped only with Berserker Fury and a bunch of capacity leftover just because I simply didn't feel like any of the other options at the time (and because I thought it'd be kind of funny to get more and more angry the more and more I killed).

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5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I expect the answer is to search for some, but if there's simply nothing that you have that catches your eye, don't feel pressured to fill up that piece of equipment (Warframe or Weapon) if it just won't get you what you're looking for. I've done a Pavlov spy with a hammer equipped only with Berserker Fury and a bunch of capacity leftover just because I simply didn't feel like any of the other options at the time (and because I thought it'd be kind of funny to get more and more angry the more and more I killed).

Wat. Lol. Anyway the only exilus I find interesting on weapons are mutations. On frames I have a lot that I find interesting but I feel like they could at more useful exilus mods.

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So I'm confused here...

 

... The solution that's being suggested is to purposefully gimp yourself or your build to "seek a challenge"? I mean, I guess that works for some people, but that's like telling a max level character in an MMO to go equip low-tier gear and try to do content in it. Also, and just follow me on this one... A lot of people like to show off the stuff they worked for in game. People like showing off their Brammas, their Zarrs, their riven-infused Glaive Primes, etc. I'm a bit skeptical that a vast majority of people would just accept the whole "Challenge exists in the game, just gimp yourself and there you go!". That's counter-intuitive to growth for the game.

 

As players grow in power, developers add content to challenge said players. Players collect more power, cycle continues. That's... how a long life multiplayer game generally works. It's not unreasonable to ask for actual end game content to be added that does no affect the base star chart, that doesn't involve infusing "challenge" back into the game by either the Developer nerfing us into oblivion, or the player gimping themselves on purpose to find said challenge.

 

If removing galvanized mods, gun arcanes, trying sub-optimal loadouts is your thing to chase a challenge, more power to you. I think that's personally a lame cop-out and a refusal of the devs to acknowledge that they are 100% flummoxed on how to add a true end game to Warframe. That's not the player's fault. 

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33 minutes ago, x570Belmont said:

So I'm confused here...

 

... The solution that's being suggested is to purposefully gimp yourself or your build to "seek a challenge"? I mean, I guess that works for some people, but that's like telling a max level character in an MMO to go equip low-tier gear and try to do content in it. Also, and just follow me on this one... A lot of people like to show off the stuff they worked for in game. People like showing off their Brammas, their Zarrs, their riven-infused Glaive Primes, etc. I'm a bit skeptical that a vast majority of people would just accept the whole "Challenge exists in the game, just gimp yourself and there you go!". That's counter-intuitive to growth for the game.

 

As players grow in power, developers add content to challenge said players. Players collect more power, cycle continues. That's... how a long life multiplayer game generally works. It's not unreasonable to ask for actual end game content to be added that does no affect the base star chart, that doesn't involve infusing "challenge" back into the game by either the Developer nerfing us into oblivion, or the player gimping themselves on purpose to find said challenge.

 

If removing galvanized mods, gun arcanes, trying sub-optimal loadouts is your thing to chase a challenge, more power to you. I think that's personally a lame cop-out and a refusal of the devs to acknowledge that they are 100% flummoxed on how to add a true end game to Warframe. That's not the player's fault. 

I mean you could also be bored and demand that, after 8 years of Warframe’s progression not matching standard progression systems, they now start following traditional level systems, so that you can feel like showing off how powerful you are but also how not-powerful you are because the fight you’re choosing is treating you like you don’t even have those precious stat-increase mods on

People are already kind of showing off tremendous power, so throw a tickmark on that one. Usually such tremendous power has merit because it’s relatively tremendous, not because it makes a fight hard

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🤔 y’know what, @x570Belmont? I’ll throw my hat into the ring alongside yours; just don’t expect me to really defend it actually, it may be fun to defend it. Let's see how far I can push it

I think they should give the option to make the most powerful build we can create into just enough to scrape through and “Mission complete” that bad boy. Make it a real fight. A real real fight. None of this turning off the game nonsense, let’s do better AI and harder-hitting attacks and higher-healthed enemies.

What do you want to see? Let’s add it to the pile

edit: This needs to be an option across the rest of the Star Chart. I bet people who are looking for things from the Star Chart will be delighted to use the option. A simple “Hard Mode” sounds good

double edit: They really need to up the power of some of our abilities for this. Warframes like [weak frame] are going to be straight up destroyed by something that [what's the most powerful Frame?] can handle

triple edit: Hmm. Increased spawnrates or no? We got AoE meta going on right now, so how do we fix that. Maybe with precision requirements. For most of the fight or some of the fight? Well, if someone brings an AoE weapon, it could automatically not spawn precision-requiring enemies

extra edit: Oh wait, you had the idea of scaling abilities. The idea being that we can take any ability anywhere, yah? And if we want to make the ability more powerful, we throw on an Intensify, because the standard ability scale isn’t quite cutting it. 🤔 So we make Volt’s 1 powerful enough to rely on for constant kills? That means Intensify is now a mandatory mod

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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I’m your Devil’s Advocate, @x570Belmont, here to question your ideas to better refine them into a solid, answer-providing solution. Let’s do this! I’m eager to solve this blasted years-long conundrum

edit: You got like a… topic or something I can have a look-through? This is a big discussion

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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