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Eidolon Hunts Being Locked to Day/Night Cycle needs to Go!


Reaver_X
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So, after several years now, and many Nightwave's, theres been one consistant thing between a lot of the nightwave missions for me. I have absolutely no problem doing the exploiter or Profit taker Missions, because i can literally just jump in and do it any time,

 

Eidolons though, i have to wait for a certain time to do it in, and its only a 1 hour window which makes things much more annoying than they should be, its a huge inconvenience and tbh is the reason i end up skipping those challenges altogether.

There is no beneficial reason to keep it like this when you could just as easily make it so that there is a way to enter and instanced version of the plains where it stays night, and you would just talk to Konzu and ask to "Wait till nighttime" or something to that effect.

And i don't wanna hear any BS about people being able to farm the eidolons too much because theres no time limit on the Orb spiders and theres no issue there, and so what if Eidolons have arcanes and the exploiters don't, Scarlet Spear basically invalidates all of that anyway and is pretty much where i got all my arcanes thus far from because eidolon hunting is such a pain in the arse.

I would love to want to do more eidolon stuff but this really is a major turn off, Consider changing it DE, i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who feels this way.

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7 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

So, after several years now, and many Nightwave's, theres been one consistant thing between a lot of the nightwave missions for me. I have absolutely no problem doing the exploiter or Profit taker Missions, because i can literally just jump in and do it any time,

 

Eidolons though, i have to wait for a certain time to do it in, and its only a 1 hour window which makes things much more annoying than they should be, its a huge inconvenience and tbh is the reason i end up skipping those challenges altogether.

There is no beneficial reason to keep it like this when you could just as easily make it so that there is a way to enter and instanced version of the plains where it stays night, and you would just talk to Konzu and ask to "Wait till nighttime" or something to that effect.

And i don't wanna hear any BS about people being able to farm the eidolons too much because theres no time limit on the Orb spiders and theres no issue there, and so what if Eidolons have arcanes and the exploiters don't, Scarlet Spear basically invalidates all of that anyway and is pretty much where i got all my arcanes thus far from because eidolon hunting is such a pain in the arse.

I would love to want to do more eidolon stuff but this really is a major turn off, Consider changing it DE, i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who feels this way.

I am not into warframe lore i dont even know if im aware of 5% of the lore behind warframe
But am i wrong understanding eidolons spawning at day would be against lore?

Anyway i do believe whatever is the case best option would be to have bounty which always start at night and let you fight eidolons
But then someone would come here crying that having bounty locked all the time at night makes no sense and should go away
 

GL on your journey

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It's also, to the best of my memory, the only major thing locked to a certain time frame. All of the other grand bosses are accessible at any point in the day, even the Orphix missions, and the Murex raids were limited with some downtime - yet that was changed so that they became always available. Quite literally, Eidolons are lagging behind in this sense.

Plus I've read posts from a number of Eidolon hunters who explicitly want this change, because they want to do Eidolons more. I think the people who might be against this are in a minute minority. (And probably already left once Orphix missions became a major thing and expanded access to Arcanes)

Edited by Tyreaus
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Well, i agree that its annoying that Eidolons are only around at Nighttime,

because we can not chose to hunt them when we want to but when the game decides we have to 🙄

And if you are really unlucky with the times you are able to play, you might never get the option to actually farm them...

 

At the same time, i like the theme, and the switch on the Plains between Day and Night with the sirens and all is pretty cool.

Thats the reason why i suggested adding different Eidolons which are around at Daytime.

 

Before the Ropalolyst has become this pretty boring Starchart Boss, i made the request to integrate it in the Plains of Eidolon at Daytime.

In my concept, it would still be optional until you engage it because it would be hovering over the oceans, so it wouldnt disrupt normal gameplay.

I know no one cares about this concept, but i would still love to see it added^^

That way, the Plains and the bosses keep their flavour, but we could always farm the arcanes and other rewards tied to them.

 

Spoiler

Call of the Condrocs - The Aerolyst

 

General Thoughts:

  • the Aerolyst spawns at Daytime above the ocean either on the West- or Eastside (random)
  • that way he will fill the empty spot when you cant hunt the other Eidolons
  • Fighting heavily relies on Archwings and their mechanics
  • multiple stages, final stage on the ground
  • he has shielding mechanics, but you wont need the Operator to kill him

 

1st Phase:

  • at first, the Aerolyst is travelling slowly above one of the oceans, the team has to find him (should be easy^^)
  • at this time, he is invulnerable to normal damage
  • he is guarded by multiple, strong condrocs that are vulnerable to gunfire
  • while he is travelling, we have to kill the condrocs first (which also have some sort of melee attacks)
  • when we start to kill them, the Aerolyst gets more active and starts ranged attacks - you can avoid them with certain Archwing-abilities like Ameshes bubble, Itzals Penumbra and so on when you get targeted by one of his attacks
  • if we are way too slow at killing the condrocs, the Aerolyst can call for support
  • when we have killed all condrocs that are protecting him, the 2nd phase starts

 

2nd Phase:

  • now that we have killed all Condrocs, the Aerolyst starts to "get nervous" and we go on a Pursuit
  • he will be able to fly a bit faster and will travel towards the Plains so he is above land now
  • he is still invulnerable to gunfire
  • on top of his body there will be one spot that one of the players have to mount onto him, this will look like this:
  • you have to follow him - aim at the spot (somewhere on his neck) - leave your Archwing and press X when you are in reach of this spot to mount it
  • (i imagine this to be really fun - one of the things i like when travelling in OrbVallis/PoE is to leave the Archwing high up in the air and then use my momentum to land as precise as possible to the next objective - which works surprisingly well btw 😛)
  • in this phase there will be coming a few condrocs to his help, but not too many so its annoying and they will not protect the Aerolyst from getting mounted, we cannot fall back into phase 1

 

3rd Phase:

  • now is the time where the Aerolyst can finally be damaged on weakspots with normal weapons
  • the one player that mounted him might have to perform multiple hacks on a console that is placed on the collar of the Aerolyst
  • while he is succesfully hacking (or doing another form of "mini-game"), the Aerolyst can be damaged
  • all other players have to shot the weakspots
  • the Aerolyst is stationary in this phase!
  • he will launch strong ranged attacks and maybe AoE-attacks like the Eidolons
  • once again, the team can avoid taking damage with Archwing-abilities
  • once we have damaged all weakspots (maybe both wings, the tail and his jaw or something), the last stage starts

 

4th and final phase:

  • after damaging all his weakspots, the Aerolyst will fall to the ground
  • he can now be damaged just like Eidolons in their final stage
  • he still will have some strong attacks to prevent getting killed
  • because it is daytime, some grineer might appear alongside some more condrocs that get called for support
  • done, we have killed our first Aerolyst 😉

 

Final Thoughts:

I imagine this to be a fun bossfight that gives the Archwings a new purpose.

Also, some mechanics like the mounting of the Aerolyst might sound "weird" at first because its not like anything else we have in bossfights right now, but like i said, i have a lot of fun using my momentum to fly trough the air to land precisly on certain spots and this will be just like that, but with a reason to do so.

And lastly, this bossfight will not be dominated by endless AoE-attacks and kockbacks/staggers, we can counter all attacks by simply using our Abilities.

 

Let me know what you think of it 🙂

 

Edited by DreisterDino
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I understand the whole lore thing and all, but gameplay trumps lore for a lot of reasons. Take fast travel in games, most people don't want to travel the full distance in real time every time they need to go to that place to do something beacuse it'd get very tedious very fast, regardless if its more "realistic" or "makes sense"........Otherwise you end up with Death Stranding 🤣, where majority of the game is you walking.

eidolons are unique enough in how you fight and handle them, i disagree strongly with keeping them locked behind the day/night cycle.

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An instanced version of the plains seems a reasonable request. It doesn’t hurt anyone, is completely opt-in, and day/night still happens as per usual. There’s just something about the spirit of the request that rubs me the wrong way.

Hrm. Wanting the game to make it easier because things are an inconvenience feels like “Well, where does it end?”, and so I can’t in good faith support this idea, because it feels like I’d be enabling the Efficiency-is-king kool-aid. If anything I’d like to see more things like the day/night cycle of Eidolons; it makes them feel a little special and gives a sense of “Alright, night is falling, time to hunt”, which wouldn’t be a feeling if I could just grab a bounty from Konzu

edit: 🤔 Maybe it does hurt people by making it easier to burn out

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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9 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

An instanced version of the plains seems a reasonable request. It doesn’t hurt anyone, is completely opt-in, and day/night happens as per usual. There’s just something about the spirit of the request that rubs me the wrong way.

Hrm. Wanting the game to make it easier because things are an inconvenience feels like “Well, where does it end?”, and so I can’t in good faith support this idea, because it feels like I’d be enabling the Efficiency-is-king kool-aid. If anything I’d like to see more things like the day/night cycle of Eidolons; it makes them feel a little special and gives a sense of “Alright, night is falling, time to hunt”, which wouldn’t be a feeling if I could just grab a bounty from Konzu

what do you mean where does it end? its already been done!? with like plenty other bosses

and i already explained why 5x3's or whatever isnt an issue because you can literally play scarlet spear till your sick of it and get all the arcanes you want anyway.

its not just about Nightwave either, i used to play eidolons just for the heck of it, but it was always such a hassle that i gave up on it, mostly due to the limitation of the day/night cycle and how i'd have to make sure i'd have a group who knew what they were doing all done during that window.

the way i see it, they can either consider these changes, and potentially get more people doing eidolons, or leave it the way it is, and thus me and others will continue to ignore them. what does DE want for their game?

Edited by Reaver_X
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20 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

(time limit imposes pressure to complete full cycle of eidolons)

Does it though?  I try to solo as much stuff as I can, partly because I don't want to risk being dead weight and want to test the water by myself before getting into a group.  I can almost solo capture all three, a bit of tweaking of my build and some more practice and I probably could.  With one other player who has a basic idea of what needs to be done I can fairly comfortably capture all three.  I know that experienced, full squads can do multiple runs of all three in one night time period, some up to 5 times.  By now there's enough information available to the community that anyone who cares to do it can find out how and with a squad and with reasonable kit should be able to fairly comfortably capture all three.  The only people under pressure will be under sized or solo squads who need to deal the same amount of damage with less weapons and less buffs yet the same amount of time available.

 

Personally, I think DE needs to make the Eidolons more accessible, be it a bounty that can be started at any time or a bounty that can only start at night but lasts as long as needed or a way to skip straight to the one you want to farm.  Events that have offered Arcanes on demand have allowed me to acquire the ones I actually think I'd regularly use.  Maxing the others would be mostly for completions sake and Eidolons are too awkward to bother with for that.  The only other thing I'd want from them is Riven Transmuters but I'm not so desperate for Rivens as to bother even for them.

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2 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

what do you mean where does it end? its already been done!? with like plenty other bosses

and i already explained why 5x3's or whatever isnt an issue because you can literally play scarlet spear till your sick of it and get all the arcanes you want anyway.

its not just about Nightwave either, i used to play eidolons just for the heck of it, but it was always such a hassle that i gave up on it, mostly due to the limitation of the day/night cycle and how i'd have to make sure i'd have a group who knew what they were doing all done during that window.

the way i see it, they can either consider these changes, and potentially get more people doing eidolons, or leave it the way it is, and thus me and others will continue to ignore them. what does DE want for their game?

Scarlet spear isn't here.....it was a one time event that was awhile ago....

If you mean orphix, you need a decent team with necramechs and it's much easier to prepare volt or trinity for eidolons than it is to get a necramech and possibly a RJ and unlock RJ nodes.

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2 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

what do you mean where does it end? its already been done!? with like plenty other bosses

and i already explained why 5x3's or whatever isnt an issue because you can literally play scarlet spear till your sick of it and get all the arcanes you want anyway.

its not just about Nightwave either, i used to play eidolons just for the heck of it, but it was always such a hassle that i gave up on it, mostly due to the limitation of the day/night cycle and how i'd have to make sure i'd have a group who knew what they were doing all done during that window.

the way i see it, they can either consider these changes, and potentially get more people doing eidolons, or leave it the way it is, and thus me and others will continue to ignore them. what does DE want for they're game?

I can only imagine what other bosses would be like if DE didn’t have to worry about inconveniencing the grinders. I wonder if the day/night cycles of other places don’t feel as vastly different to each other because of the complaints of players saying things are time-gated. I would love for Deimos and Orb to have strongly distinctive cycles, but they don’t, and I’m left wondering why.

I get that it’s a hassle, but that’s sort of the point. I will be blunt; I’m coming from a perspective of “A bit of considered inconvenience is fine, since it helps make things feel a little special”, and that extends to Eidolons. Basically extends to the entire game since we don’t have immediate access to everything. 🤔 I guess it just means I have a higher tolerance/am in a better position (if you are simply unable to ever do Eidolons, you have my sympathy, and I may consider getting behind your suggestion).

I thought Scarlet Spear came and went? You make it sound like it’s accessible right now.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Scarlet spear isn't here.....it was a one time event that was awhile ago....

If you mean orphix, you need a decent team with necramechs and it's much easier to prepare volt or trinity for eidolons than it is to get a necramech and possibly a RJ and unlock RJ nodes.

 

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I can only imagine what other bosses would be like if DE didn’t have to worry about inconveniencing the grinders. I wonder if the day/night cycles of other places don’t feel as vastly different to each other because of the complaints of players saying things are time-gated. I would love for Deimos and Orb to have strongly distinctive cycles, but they don’t, and I’m left wondering why.

I get that it’s a hassle, but that’s sort of the point. I will be blunt; I’m coming from a perspective of “A bit of considered inconvenience is fine, since it helps make things feel a little special”, and that extends to Eidolons. Basically extends to the entire game since we don’t have immediate access to everything. 🤔 I guess it just means I have a higher tolerance/am in a better position (if you are simply unable to ever do Eidolons, you have my sympathy, and I may consider getting behind your suggestion).

I thought Scarlet Spear came and went? You make it sound like it’s accessible right now.

As far as i know, scarlet spear is a recurring event now, i dunno how new some of you are, but we've had it twice now, no reason to assume it will not come back again

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47 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

DE keep it the way it is. It makes sense with the lore and it makes sense given the gameplay (time limit imposes pressure to complete full cycle of eidolons).

If games actually followed lore for game design, they would be worse off. Gameplay generally takes precedence over lore for a reason.

If a time limit was necessary, you can have one without tying it to day/night cycle. Selecting the bounty puts you in a night instance of PoE that then has a timer until it shifts to day.

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6 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

 

As far as i know, scarlet spear is a recurring event now, i dunno how new some of you are, but we've had it twice now, no reason to assume it will not come back again

Hrm. As far as I know, there was that one case last year that I missed (was very much looking forward to it, but reasons happened).

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possible compromise idea:

- Players can spawn Eidolons in the daytime themselves by creating a special gear item: Eidolon Offering it requires a Forma, some Kuva,  several Exceptional Cores, and Eidolon shards, and to be placed on the Altar in the middle of Gara Toht Lake. this will force a Teralyst to appear in the day time. Gantulyust and Hydrolyst can be summoned using the same method after the Teralyst is killed or captured. 

I'm fine with being able to summon in the day, but it shouldn't be cheap: it should be something you only do when pressed for time and willing to give up a few of your valuable resources; the Kuva makes sense as that's actually what the Eidolons were after anyway, so if nothing else, Kuva could be used to summon them.

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1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

DE keep it the way it is. It makes sense with the lore and it makes sense given the gameplay (time limit imposes pressure to complete full cycle of eidolons).

 

36 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's probably a bit more complicated than just opening the flood gates and letting people do 5x3s all day everyday.

These are pretty easy problem to solve. You make an instanced bounty that always creates a nighttime instance of the plains. You make the mission timed to 1 hour with forced extraction (with everything you've collected up to that point saved) at the end of the time limit.  You have optional extraction prior to that for people who need/want to leave before the time limit is up. You could even go a step further and make it so playing that bounty and killing/capturing at least teralyst puts the bounty (join and host) on cooldown for you for X amount of time if you need to limit the amount of 5x3's per day.

Edit: this would necessitate having a way to start an addtional cycle of eidolons without resetting to cetus but frankly I think it would be better to not have a cooldown on the bounty at all and just open the floodgates for eidolon hunts and arcanes. The only people that benefit from the restrictions are market barons and people chasing anything that will make them feel their epeen is bigger.

Edited by Drasiel
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1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hrm. As far as I know, there was that one case last year that I missed (was very much looking forward to it, but reasons happened).

OP is probably assuming OV and SS are the same.... even though they aren't the same. Their only similarities is the Sentient theme, but that's all they had in common.

OV was an event that required Necramechs for the purpose of driving people into buying them as they were added to the market. Previously there was no reason to even bother getting one yourself other than for completion sake. The event structure was also different from both Ground/Condrix and Space/Murex variants of SS. I liked SS, but disliked OV.

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4 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

OP is probably assuming OV and SS are the same.... even though they aren't the same. Their only similarities is the Sentient theme, but that's all they had in common.

OV was an event that required Necramechs for the purpose of driving people into buying them as they were added to the market. Previously there was no reason to even bother getting one yourself other than for completion sake. The event structure was also different from both Ground/Condrix and Space/Murex variants of SS. I liked SS, but disliked OV.

Ah. Seems understandable if it’s being based off appearances

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30 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's probably a bit more complicated than just opening the flood gates and letting people do 5x3s all day everyday.

 

More like endlessX3, what could possibly go wrong?

People intensively farm in Warframe for more or less one thing, Plat.

If arcane supply goes through the roof the price crashes, making the endlessX3 a bad plat farm and most people stop doing it.

There is probably still a margin there for super optimized groups (sounds toxin right?) or people OK with making a small amount of plat for a large effort.

The current system that is time gated means after something like 4 years hunts are still pretty popular.

 

24 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

scarlet spear is a recurring event now, i dunno how new some of you are, but we've had it twice now

 

That S#&$show only happened once.

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19 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

 

These are pretty easy problem to solve. You make an instanced bounty that always creates a nighttime instance of the plains. You make the mission timed to 1 hour with forced extraction (with everything you've collected up to that point saved) at the end of the time limit.  You have optional extraction prior to that for people who need/want to leave before the time limit is up. You could even go a step further and make it so playing that bounty and killing/capturing at least teralyst puts the bounty (join and host) on cooldown for you for X amount of time if you need to limit the amount of 5x3's per day.

Edit: this would necessitate having a way to start an addtional cycle of eidolons without resetting to cetus but frankly I think it would be better to not have a cooldown on the bounty at all and just open the floodgates for eidolon hunts and arcanes. The only people that benefit from the restrictions are market barons and people chasing anything that will make them feel their epeen is bigger.

This is a very good solution. I am 100% in support of a timed bounty. This is the kind of big brain solutions that DE should pay attention to.

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23 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

As far as i know, scarlet spear is a recurring event now, i dunno how new some of you are, but we've had it twice now, no reason to assume it will not come back again

When Operatiion: Scarlet Spear event started, DE suggested the event would return. Eight months later when DE announced Operation: Orphix Venom, DE made it clear that Scarlet Spear would not be making a come back :sadcry:

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32 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Scarlet spear isn't here.....it was a one time event that was awhile ago....

If you mean orphix, you need a decent team with necramechs and it's much easier to prepare volt or trinity for eidolons than it is to get a necramech and possibly a RJ and unlock RJ nodes.

 

Drop tables are diluted with junk as well.

With three C rotations per hour and chances as low as 1.41% for the rarest arcanes I don't think anyone even does these missions.

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1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

When Operatiion: Scarlet Spear event started, DE suggested the event would return. Eight months later when DE announced Operation: Orphix Venom, DE made it clear that Scarlet Spear would not be making a come back :sadcry:

Yep and it is a shame because I really liked the interactive mission thing. Really really bummed out that they ended up ditching that idea.

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