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Wouldn't be better if Shadows of the Dead and Desecrate merged into one ability, while giving Nekros a more versatile utility ability?


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i don't hate nekros because he doesn't deal damage, quite the contrary, i LOVE warframes that have utility/gimmicks/support abilities that don't do damage or aren't straight up damage reduction.

However, i compared Desecrate to all other looting abilities, and noticed that all of them do something else besides looting. (with their loot augments if they have one) 

tentacle swarm: CC and some damage

Strangledom: CC and damage

Petrify: CC and scans enemies 

Prowl: Invisibility, headshot multiplier.

all Desecrate does is looting, it's also a passive just the cast time then forget it.

shouldn't it do something else? 

MAYBE merge Shadow of the Dead and desecrate together and make a new ability for nekros? i don't know, like Astral projection or something like it

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Isn't there a negative interaction between Shadows and Oberon's heal that eats away the Oberon's energy like Grendel at a Corpus buffet? I imagine being able to turn off Shadows would be a good thing.

I suppose it could be possible to merge the two into a tap-hold function, but aren't Nekros's 1 and 2 both pretty "meh"? If we want to give him something more interesting, those seem like more worthwhile targets.

Plus, given Desecrate is pretty much "the ability you always have on", I'm not sure it really should have more attached to it. You'd probably need some practical limit with Shadows, like having to recast Desecrate to get more shadows, and that goes against the "always on" nature of the Desecrate portion. Same goes for most other additions to it. That it's low-profile is what makes it fitting to be an "activate and forget" ability. Changing that doesn't seem beneficial.

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37 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Isn't there a negative interaction between Shadows and Oberon's heal that eats away the Oberon's energy like Grendel at a Corpus buffet? I imagine being able to turn off Shadows would be a good thing.

They could always just...remove that interaction entirely.

It isn't like healing Nekros' Shadows is some gamebreaking combo or anything, I have no idea how they still haven't just made an exception to anything summoned by Nekros for Renewal.

It brings literally nothing to the table.

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Um yes, If you add more to a kit there will be more on that kit. You’re correct.

 

However, I don’t think these changes are necessary.

There’s also the fact that shadows and desecrate don’t play nice with each other. Desecrate is for farming, shadows fills up spawn slots and slows down your farm. This change would upset a large portion of Nekros players.

Edited by _R_o_g_u_e_
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No thanks. I purposefully build Nekros without SotD because it spreads enemies out too much, and the shadows aren't worth babysitting. 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

i don't know, like Astral projection or something like it

So Sevagoth?

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I really don't see SotD or desecrate close enough mechanically to replace each other as an ability.

But I could see "souls/shadows" as an active resource for nekros he could use, that is fueled by his other abilities (similar to sevagoth/nidus) 

But that would change the core nekros too much. So I don't thinks it viable.

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Nekros has some problems, but merging Shadows of the Dead and Desecrate wouldn't solve them.

For starters, Shadows of the Dead affects enemy spawn rates.  You can kind of think about a given area as having a ceiling for the maximum capacity of how many mobiles will be around at a given time.  Shadows of the Dead count toward that.

Desecrate/Despoil isn't just a decent looting skill, it's a solid Support skill.  It keeps health orbs coming in, energy, and ammo.

The weakest part of Nekros is probably Soul Punch, and Helminth has made it so we can swap something more useful into that slot.

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Desecrate is the only looting ability that lets you kill enemies with anything and without afflicting them with something else first. Making it the only "set and forget" one of the bunch.

But I'd say it should be merged with Terrify and rework it back to the original "Terror Totem" concept. Something like multiple totems he can place that mark enemies to drop extra loot and fear them after remaining in range of it. Could even give it a hold-toggle where it's the same effect but centralized on him and having a periodic fear would also help his Shield of Shadows build and general survivability (especially for a health cost with Despoil).

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2 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

So Sevagoth?

well the idea i had in mind was a stealth version of Astral projection, where he can't be touched or seen, he can roam around in his Astral form as he pleases but he can't interact with anything.

However he can materialize his body at his Astral form's location when he comes near 3 or more enemies.

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You're forgetting the health orb drops, which as far as I'm aware is exclusive to Desecrate (and with Despoil, it becomes the only loot power to be guaranteed to be both self-sustaining and constantly active regardless of energy drain effects).

Not saying I wouldn't love to see changes made to his kit. Altering Shadows of the Dead to work more like his Prime trailer (a passive aura that infects and reanimates corpses as zombies) would be pretty cool, and could be pretty powerful if the resulting horde's melee attacks scaled off of your melee mods.

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What would really help Nekros is if the damage of the shadows would scale to a level where they can actually hurt enemies.

But to do it properly it might need a full rework of the ability to make it more like the Necromancer of other games, with an auto recast of shadows, plus damage buffs to them from using other abilities.

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Nekros is near top of my list of frames that needs a rework. 

His kit feels too dependent on augments. I have yet to find a build that I actually enjoy playing because after I put on augments there is very little room left for a balanced build. You end up gimping and ignoring half your kit building for the other two abilities (desecrate/shadows). 

His casting speed is also terrible but that doesn't matter because desecrate is basically a toggle on/off passive and the only time you cast is shadows if they die. I just find him boring to play but I guess I've always liked playing magic using casters with some crowd control in most games. 

I don't have to like every frame and there are plenty of other options I just want to like the token necromancer. 

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personally I just want his Shadows to be deadlier, and maybe with an ability to command them. don't get me wrong, they're great for drawing agro, but that's about it. IMO it wouldn't hurt for them to have a damage boost that scales more with Nekros' weapon damage or power strength so that shadows can actually kill things. I'm not worried about it being an AFK ability since the shadows decay over time even if they don't take damage, and higher level enemies can pose a real threat to shadows if Nekros doesn't recast the ability. I don't see why he couldn't have his augments made into his base ability, since 99% of Nekros players use them, and let the augments do something else: a few ideas.

- new Desecrate Augment: Life after Death- picking up health orbs from desecrate refills a % of  each Shadow's health.

- new Shadows augment: Shadows of the Damned - instead of enemy clones, Nekros summons up to 3 vengeful spirit shadows, which actively seek out and attack enemies in melee: while you can only have 3 of these shadows, they are considerably more powerful and aggressive than ordinary shadows. if killed, the Spirits will explode and deal damage to surrounding enemies.

- I'd also replace Terrify with Fatal Strike: when activated the next shot or melee attack Nekros performs deals a substantial amount of damage and also opens the enemy to a finisher if they survive. our death themed frame should have an ability that dooms one target to a certain death. 

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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9 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

shadows fills up spawn slots and slows down your farm

 

8 hours ago, (PSN)Hooligonzo said:

Shadows of the Dead affects enemy spawn rates

unless Reb is lying, "SotD affecting spawn slots" is a very old meme.

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Desecrate and Shadows of the Dead are two totally different abilities that have nothing to do with each other.  This feels like saying that Iron Skin and Roar should be the same ability.

In regards to "other loot abilities have other functionality as well", every other loot ability requires an Augment mod to work; the base ability doesn't do anything loot-related.  With the exception of Ivara, who slowly loots one enemy at a time manually, as opposed to covering a massive area like Nekros.

I'm gonna say no to this.  Nekros still has the most powerful and accessible looting ability in the game, and in no way needs a buff.

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