Loki update/refresh.

[Velaethia]

I know Loki has a group of people that love him and despite not liking him in the past I've grown a bit of admiration of him more recently. I believe previously I suggested a radical rework but I don't think he actually needs that anymore. But he feels old. I don't think he's had much changes since the Beta and you can tell. Older warframes have gotten refreshed or reworks that are older Loki is still sitting back pretty with a toolkit from 2012. 

Best bet to not upset anyone who currently loves his current incarnation is just give hit kit a modern twist.

Decoy: This ability is so dated especially compared to the modern AI we see for spectres. The Wukong clone is a good example. While I don't think it needs to be identical to Wukong's clone I think it could certainly use some refinements. Mostly an update on the graphics, have it do actual damage, and make it a bit of a damage sponge so it can take more than a few hits. Augment should be baseline and get a new augment. My suggestion for an Augment is letting us have multiple out at a time. That could also make a good baseline change to seperate it more from celestial twin.

Invisibility: My main thing would be increase the base duration but more importantly allow us to recast it while it's up so we don't have even a moment visible. I suggest making the augment baeline and replaced with an augment that gives him a damage bonus or perhaps a finisher bonus at least while invisible. 

Switch Teleport: The augment should be baseline and grant you invulnerability whenever you use it. Reduced duration to like 3 seconds. An augment that causes it to deal damage/preform a finisher on the target. 

Disarm: Augment should be baseline and the whole ability should get better visuals rather than just a simple spin. Doesn't have to be super flashy but something more than what it is. A new augment could make it an aura you apply to yourself for a duration that applies the effect automatically to enemies in a range.

Passive: Give him infinite wall hanging why not. 60 seconds is already a long time. Maybe make him take reduced damage while wall climbing, or some buff. 

These are some super basic ideas if anyone who mains Loki has any better ones I'd love to hear them,

[Rojo_Es_Lardo]

Honestly my idea was just let him take two subsumed abilities, the trickster got up to copying everyone else's moves, let him be a toolkit frame that people have different loadouts for different playstyles

 

[Tyreaus]

On 2021-09-13 at 9:46 PM, Velaethia said:

Decoy: This ability is so dated especially compared to the modern AI we see for spectres. The Wukong clone is a good example. While I don't think it needs to be identical to Wukong's clone I think it could certainly use some refinements. Mostly an update on the graphics, have it do actual damage, and make it a bit of a damage sponge so it can take more than a few hits. Augment should be baseline and get a new augment. My suggestion for an Augment is letting us have multiple out at a time. That could also make a good baseline change to seperate it more from celestial twin.

Decoy being able to deal damage, and being stationary, is probably enough to both buff it and differentiate it from Celestial Twin.

One idea may be to have two Decoy variants on a tap / hold function: one is invulnerable but deals no damage (as current), and one is vulnerable but can deal damage. That can make the former a more reliable sync with Switch Teleport, and an effective CC compared to the DPS option of the other (that might blow up, given it's pretty healthy base duration).

On 2021-09-13 at 9:46 PM, Velaethia said:

Invisibility: My main thing would be increase the base duration but more importantly allow us to recast it while it's up so we don't have even a moment visible. I suggest making the augment baeline and replaced with an augment that gives him a damage bonus or perhaps a finisher bonus at least while invisible. 

I'm not sure it really needs to be touched that much. The duration feels fine - even with a build that gets a good bit of range (100%+) and max efficiency, I can have Invis go for ~25 seconds. Automatic suppression might not always be desired (noise levels can help kite enemies, which can be good for SP Survival missions), so the augment is a good toggle on that. And cloaking in general is hecka powerful in Warframe, so a damage boost doesn't seem necessary here.

On 2021-09-13 at 9:46 PM, Velaethia said:

Switch Teleport: The augment should be baseline and grant you invulnerability whenever you use it. Reduced duration to like 3 seconds. An augment that causes it to deal damage/preform a finisher on the target. 

I could see the augment being a baseline part - it isn't super useful but given we're already able to teleport allies and we'd almost never want to do that on purpose (mucking with other players generally is bad), we may as well give that function some benefit. I don't think dealing damage with Switch Teleport is really Loki's thing (it's literally Ash's). I'd rather it do something like blinding enemies in the vicinity the player teleports to. That could feed off duration, too, so that Teleport doesn't flop so hard just because you build for duration for Invis.

On 2021-09-13 at 9:46 PM, Velaethia said:

Disarm: Augment should be baseline and the whole ability should get better visuals rather than just a simple spin. Doesn't have to be super flashy but something more than what it is. A new augment could make it an aura you apply to yourself for a duration that applies the effect automatically to enemies in a range.

Some extra light effects could be nice, but the spin is - though a bit on the slow side - a decently active animation. It may need a touch-up on pacing, especially on the wind-up, but that's about all.

Besides baseline Irradiating Disarm being a good idea, especially since it feeds off duration, one tweak I'd suggest is armour and shield stripping (the shield part borrowed wholesale from Conclave). That and giving enemies the equivalent of 10 Rad procs would probably make it a decently deadly ability. And the enemy damage bonus can be tweaked as needed, too)

[Aldain]

I'll say the same thing I always say.

Make Switch Teleport a hold cast on Decoy and give him a new 3rd ability.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

On 2021-09-14 at 6:46 AM, Velaethia said:

have it do actual damage

it's a holographic decoy, it's not supposed to deal damage, it's supposed to trick enemies or something like that

also your idea beats the main Quirk of Loki not needing strength, so yeah 0/10

On 2021-09-14 at 6:46 AM, Velaethia said:

My main thing would be increase the base duration but more importantly allow us to recast it while it's up so we don't have even a moment visible. I suggest making the augment baeline and replaced with an augment that gives him a damage bonus or perhaps a finisher bonus at least while invisible. 

why? this is just a pointless buff, why do you need him to be 100% invisible? it's just a lazy buff idea with no actual thought behind it 0/10

also Loki shouldn't be a damage dealing frame, and Loki gets stealth finishers passively while invis,  so -2/10

On 2021-09-14 at 6:46 AM, Velaethia said:

and grant you invulnerability whenever you use it.

Why would they make an augment that makes Loki invulnerable when you want him to be invis 100% of the time? Awful idea.

 

sorry OP but i don't think these Updates are well thought out, they're all evidence to the extreme powercreep we have become, everyone wants damage reduction, invisibility invulnerability, damage all at once, and enough is never enough for you guys.

[LuckyCharm]

Decoy really just needs to agro enemies properly, if any other frames are visible decoy barely agros anything. It also needs to be invulnerable as even with an hp buff it has no armor or shields or anything so its basically an infested runner. 

Switch teleport i dont often use but i would like a hold cast that swaps you with your decoy even if not in decoy line of sight. That way you can cast it, run off, do what you need to to annoy enemies then swap back from where you ran to

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

8 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

to be invulnerable as even with an hp buff it has no armor or shields or anything so its basically an infested runner. 

you guys, the thing you need to understand is it's a HOLOGRAPHIC decoy, it's not necessarily durable or have any type of survivability.

it's supposed to be a...well, a Decoy to fool enemies, once they touch or try to harm it, the Decoy's integrity weakens and then disappears. just like most interpretations of holograms in media 

[LuckyCharm]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

you guys, the thing you need to understand is it's a HOLOGRAPHIC decoy, it's not necessarily durable or have any type of survivability.

it's supposed to be a...well, a Decoy to fool enemies, once they touch or try to harm it, the Decoy's integrity weakens and then disappears. just like most interpretations of holograms in media 

You need to remember its a HOLOGRAPHIC decoy, it shouldn't even be getting hit and bullets should be travelling through it like its not there because it's just a hologram.  It should indeed be invulnerable and just on a duration because its essentially not even supposed to be getting hit, even if its drawing enemy fire at it like a decoy. 

[Mu_Gera]

best thing they could do for decoy is definitely making it tankier, also making it copy your weapon. it would basically end up as stationary wukongs clone but decoy is such an outdated ability that it wouldn't matter.