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(Eidolon) Pub Groups - Be the Better Tenno


Whibbs
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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Zergmaster999 said:

Also doesn't help that some players setting up a pre-made tricap squad have some notable requirements (max vs or unairu wisp, meta frames and weapons, and at least 100 or 200 caps minimum).

I've no doubt the difficulties of finding a pre-made in recruitment chat. All I was aiming to get across was that one bully can't expect someone like myself to play how they want me to in a random pub group where the skills of others is unknown, playstyle is unknown, and so many other factors.

That's honestly the main thing of a pub group in any online game. It is impossible to determine how skilled a random group is going to be, it's impossible for everyone to be on the exact same page unless it's talked out before the mission is officially started, and it's 100% selfish to assume that even just one person will forsake their way of play and methods of efficiency to appease someone else. To add any form of bullying or harassment on top of that... well, I've already said all I can on that and I just hope that particular portion of all this has made it's point to everyone reading.

It really just comes down to if someone wants the "perfect" group, then their best bet is recruitment chat. If it just isn't working out, then I don't know what to say because a pub group isn't guaranteed, not even a little. While some are saying people like myself should, essentially, "get good," it can also be said to them. Why else would they forsake recruitment chat? If some pre-mades are having very specific and difficult requirements, and they can't meet those requirements...? Foot -> mouth.

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1 hour ago, Whibbs said:

Unfortunately I know that all too well. It's like that with any online game. "Knock out the weak, the competition" and it all goes their way, right? Sure, but I doubt that's what DE wants for Warframe. Aside from a lot of monetary reasons and certainly other things as well, a bad player community is a large reason why many games can die out. Nobody wants to play a game where other players attack them for how they play. It's a turn-off and it's not like there's any other good games out there nowadays, Imo.

What really scares me is the Developers willingness to just let these things happen...you would think they would take it more seriously but nope.... It's like they want players to quit 😱 !!!

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Just now, Lutesque said:

What really scares me is the Developers willingness to just let these things happen...you would think they would take it more seriously but nope.... It's like they want players to quit 😱 !!!

Well, the unfortunate truth behind that is the same with any game. There are only so many... staff members (?) that can keep an eye on things, and considering Warframe (since that's what we're referencing, but definitely not limited to) is a free-to-play game... I can't really say whether they can afford to hire X amount of staff to moderate such a large player base, but the same can be said for any game, obviously.

I think that a lot of online games would benefit more from what an older game I played somewhat had going on. I can't remember the name of it, but I specifically remember that a LOT of key phrases simply couldn't be said in chat. Be it whispers, public chats, whatever the case. Certain abbreviations like "kys," phrases similar to "you suck, get good," etc. etc. Not exact examples, but that's a general idea of what I mean. Basically a chat system that filtered a multitude of... uhh... rude language (for lack of better wording) and just outright blocked it. Sure there's profanity filters, but obviously a curse word isn't always used in a hateful context, so. Granted that system that the game had going was far from perfect and honestly made chatting difficult at times because it would block weird stuff.

IMO though, I feel like the best option would be to just have some DE people play the game and monitor chats physically, rather than with a bot. Shift every 4-6 hours, and generally just be there in case someone needs immediate action, rather than waiting for support. They would serve more as someone who can dish out temporary chat bans, while also being able to escalate to support if needed for more severe cases.

Being able to see previous chats would be nice too. I'm not a big fan of squad chat disappearing after I leave the squad. I also think Q&A chat should be available anywhere you go, in case a newer player who's playing solo gets confused mid-mission and doesn't know what to do, or having dojo questions and having to return to the Orbiter to ask them lol. But that's a different topic xD. Although it would help the case if both parties could preview past chat logs during a reporting process in-game like I've suggested. It's an idea at least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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"Play the way I want to play" then hunt voms on your own. What you're doing is equivalent to mining or fishing during an open world mission, you're shafting your team because YOU want more resources. This is super selfish and if someone calls you out on it idk why you can't understand why. People don't really take kindly to leeches not playing the objective so they personally can get more resources. Technically it's a playstyle but leeches are despised in every game and you unfortunately don't get to also demand people to not be upset by it. People in 2021, the year of our lord are really talking about leeching as a legitimate playstyle.

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I agree with those people who complain about Vom core collecting after the Eidolon is dead. After all, it's not like there's a button that would disconnect them from the squad so they can extract immediately and save their precious time.

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Pubs are pubs. You get what you get. If someone isn't doing it right or playing badly or messing around or doesn't know what they are doing too bad. It's pubs. You wanna super speed nuke the room kill everything in one shot don't break any containers leave when I'm ready group you make your own. You get what you get in pubs. 

 

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6 hours ago, Whibbs said:

So what you're saying is, even though a player might be new to the game and recently just opened up the ability to start hunting Eidolons, on the off chance that they don't have/don't know what an archwing is, they shouldn't be allowed to try new content?

If a player does not have a archwing, they do not have their operator unlocked either and no should not be out doing eidolon's even though DE made the dumb mistake of not locking them behind the quils

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both sides are at fault.

players need to be less entitled, and at the same time, you also can't expect them to be OK with carrying people 100% of the time. people who are doing Eidolons for the rewards more than the thrill of the hunt are bound to get narky at others from time to time, and they will usually take it out on players who are not as well equipped or experienced. they shouldn't be that way, it's very toxic, but that's human nature for you.

it's fine to not be an incredibly skilled Eidolon hunter that can tricap 3 times a night, but those who aren't should also be aware that in a public match, there is a substantially high chance of landing in a group with one of these people, and they may be less tolerant. you can save both yourself and them from getting all worked up by focusing on solo or premade groups, until you reach a point where you can truly hold your own no matter what anyone else is doing; even then,. people might still call you out for whatever reason, but again: human nature just doing it's thing.

nobody likes toxic people, but since there's no kick system, the best thing to do is report them and move on. 

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10 hours ago, Whibbs said:

I'm not super huge into Eidolon hunting, but I dabble from time to time. Don't have a great amp, but it's decent enough that I can at least solo 2, maaaybe 3, Eidolons in one night cycle (definitely not Tridolons >.>).  Got a pretty decent Rubico that helps me speed it up though so it is what it is, I don't complain. Heck, I'm not even max rank with the Quills yet lol. However, my issue is how can some people join a pub group, practically solo the whole thing in a few short minutes with having done 90%+ damage, then complain that everyone else is either "not contributing enough" or "needs to hurry up"?

Don't complain that someone is "too slow" returning to Cetus at the end of a hunt if you're the one that wanted to join a pub group. If it's such an issue, join a clan, find some friends, and run pre-made groups. Those of you that whine because they're not doing what you want and staying behind to kill and loot Vomvalysts for that little extra standing, just stop. That one minute wait time before it pulls in remaining group members is not going to kill you (that's why it's there!), especially when you're already killing Eidolons 100x faster than the whole rest of the group put together.

I've had groups where some people might not even have an archwing launcher, but decided to try out Eidolon hunting because it was new to them. If those types of people are going to get harassed as well, what's to keep them playing the game if they have to deal with those of you that can't wait a measly minute.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand not wanting to sit in recruit chat (waiting around in generally anything, really) for a speedy group of people so you can get as many Tridolons done as possible before night ends, but c'mon, don't complain about waiting 1 minute for someone who's still trying to rank up Quills and doesn't know any better. I've had this happen to me a couple times, and I see it happen to at least one person - in almost every pub group I'm in - who's running a little late.

A general rule of thumb: just because you might be fast at something, know more than someone else, or are generally better than another, doesn't mean you should be a bully to them because they don't meet your expectations. I don't agree with the whole "don't expect much from a pub" crud either, but there's a pretty fine line between helping someone that's falling behind (or suggesting a few tips to maybe speed them up) and just harassing them because you're impatient.

Lose the entitled attitudes and just play the game, don't be a jerk to others unless you want to pay their internet bill cause I'm pretty sure you'd rather not get reported and take the chance of getting banned from chat, or worse. I'll just say, I've seen enough of it and I'm going to start reporting those of you that choose to bully others. It's against the rules, some of you still decide to do it, and there's consequences. Normally I wouldn't react like this, but enough is enough; some of you are plenty old enough to know better. However, if you'd rather pretend otherwise, I'll gladly receive donations for my internet bill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Welcome to the most sweaty, toxic, tryhard part of the game.

 

Efficiency might be the difference between getting 3 arcanes in one night cycle or getting 9.

So there are always going to be super sweaty tryhard salt licks that will completely come unglued if you dont have the most sweaty tryhard meta hugging optimal loadouts possible.

 

This is why i dont play eidolons at all.

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4 hours ago, ThePunkyReason said:

"Play the way I want to play" then hunt voms on your own. What you're doing is equivalent to mining or fishing during an open world mission, you're shafting your team because YOU want more resources. This is super selfish and if someone calls you out on it idk why you can't understand why. People don't really take kindly to leeches not playing the objective so they personally can get more resources. Technically it's a playstyle but leeches are despised in every game and you unfortunately don't get to also demand people to not be upset by it. People in 2021, the year of our lord are really talking about leeching as a legitimate playstyle.

I disagree. Mining or fishing during an open world mission requires going out of your way to find those things. Considering the Vomvalysts are quite literally right where the Eidolon is at/died, I wouldn't say that it is selfish. In fact, I would say that it's selfish to assume that everyone has to play how others think they should, just because they feel that it's more "efficient." I've already stated numerous times that, for me, it is much more efficient to collect the Intact Cores at the end of an Eidolon hunt than it is to do it in a solo, free roam because I am saving much more time on my part by not having to hunt more than one Eidolon each when I don't want to. Just because there are those out there that regard it as a waste of time, doesn't mean that it is. As I've said before, I have plenty of the resources required that a couple Intact Cores extra each day at the end of an Eidolon hunt inevitably saves me from having to hunt more than I have to each week because I can craft extra Exceptional Cores, and furthermore save time for other content that I want to play.

I am not an intentional leech. If a random player that has a overly superior advantage over others in a pub group decides they want to rush through Eidolon hunts because they're too lazy to deal with recruitment chat for a premade group, they have zero right to harass me or anyone like me because of our methods of gameplay. Pub groups are completely random and no amount of complaining and whining is ever going to excuse or warrant the harassment. I am perfectly capable of understanding why someone might get upset that I'm wasting a single minute of their oh-so precious time, but it still does not warrant harassment. If you've failed to understand the point of my original post, then perhaps you are also part of the issue. One minute is not going to kill anyone, just because some people believe that their methods are best, doesn't mean it is best for everyone. They chose a public group, they're choosing to live with the consequences of not knowing what sort of group they'll join. I will not sacrifice my time and enjoyment to save someone a measly minute of time who decided to be lazy.

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11 hours ago, Whibbs said:

Those of you that whine because they're not doing what you want and staying behind to kill and loot Vomvalysts for that little extra standing, just stop.

The goal in public matchmade bounties [missions in general] is to have 4 people that consented to doing said bounties [or mission objective]. No where are people agreeing to standing around while someone does something other than the established goal.

This isn't any different to going to a fissure, and then wasting everyone's time opening every crate on the map, and getting upset when someone complaints you're wasting their time.

If someone wants to do something other than the agreed upon mission goal, then it's actually them that needs to be "the better Tenno" and find people that want to do the same, or do so on their own.

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Just now, Yamazuki said:

The goal in public matchmade bounties [missions in general] is to have 4 people that consented to doing said bounties [or mission objective]. No where are people agreeing to standing around while someone does something other than the established goal.

This isn't any different to going to a fissure, and then wasting everyone's time opening every crate on the map, and getting upset when someone complaints you're wasting their time.

If someone wants to do something other than the agreed upon mission goal, then it's actually them that needs to be "the better Tenno" and find people that want to do the same, or do so on their own.

As I've said to others, I can completely understand being upset when your time is wasted. But this is exactly why there is a 1-minute countdown at the end of missions. 60 seconds is not going to kill anyone, it is a game, and absolutely NONE of it warrants, defends, or excuses harassment in any way, shape or form.

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Just now, Whibbs said:

As I've said to others, I can completely understand being upset when your time is wasted. But this is exactly why there is a 1-minute countdown at the end of missions. 60 seconds is not going to kill anyone, it is a game, and absolutely NONE of it warrants, defends, or excuses harassment in any way, shape or form.

The 60 second timer doesn't warrant, defend, or excuse the deliberate wasting of everyone's time in any way, shape or form.

Intentionally wasting the time of random people is just as disrespectful as "harassment".

You, or anyone, isn't going to die by extracting when the agreed upon goal has been met, either.

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A lot of you are failing to see that if I just wanted Intact Cores, then maybe I would go out free-roaming solo. The idea that I choose to Eidolon hunt instead is because I can get the standing, the loot from an Eidolon, AND a few Intact Cores from the Vomvalysts all at one time. I will not throw away 60 seconds of a chance to grab a few extra Intact Cores solely because others feel I'm wasting their precious time.

I'm selfish? Hah! Some of you may expect me to throw away what I want just to meet your needs, but don't hold your breath. I am not going to add an extra 5, 10 or even 15 minutes of my gameplay to something that I shouldn't have had to do just because some of you think it's a waste of your time. You chose a randomly generated, public group and you're choosing to comply with the fact that there may or may not be others in your group that don't play exactly how you want them to. If you don't like it, go to recruitment chat. If that's not an option, then suck it up or solo them yourselves like you're suggesting I do. Personally, I save a few extra minutes doing Eidolon hunts in pub groups, but that does not mean I can't solo them if I wanted to. I'd rather save a few extra minutes that way and later enjoy doing something else. End of story.

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3 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

The 60 second timer doesn't warrant, defend, or excuse the deliberate wasting of everyone's time in any way, shape or form.

Intentionally wasting the time of random people is just as disrespectful as "harassment".

You, or anyone, isn't going to die by extracting when the agreed upon goal has been met, either.

Disrespect - showing a lack of respect or courtesy; impolite

It's a two way streak, and in joining a public group, anything within the limits/rules of the game goes. Just because an objective has been completed, does not mean I can not spend the last minute I have to shorten my overall farming by a much greater amount of time, just to appease someone else. People join pub groups all the time where up to 3 others might be 100% new to Eidolon hunting, and that 4th person is more than welcome to leave if that doesn't appeal to them, but they know the risks when they choose public groups. If they want a no-risk group, then go to recruitment chat.

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3 minutes ago, Whibbs said:

Disrespect - showing a lack of respect or courtesy; impolite

It's a two way streak, and in joining a public group, anything within the limits/rules of the game goes. Just because an objective has been completed, does not mean I can not spend the last minute I have to shorten my overall farming by a much greater amount of time, just to appease someone else. People join pub groups all the time where up to 3 others might be 100% new to Eidolon hunting, and that 4th person is more than welcome to leave if that doesn't appeal to them, but they know the risks when they choose public groups. If they want a no-risk group, then go to recruitment chat.

"Can" and "Should" aren't the same. You can waste everyone's time, but you shouldn't. Contrary to what you might think, if enough people made an issue over the fact you're actually doing what you're doing purely out of your own enjoyment, you wouldn't be around for long. People have been permanently suspended from Warframe for less.

It's also silly to compare your intentional decision to make every group you run into wait for you to someone that lacks experience with any given content. The other person is actually trying their best to waste as little time as possible, with some even have anxiety over the fact they're likely not contributing; where as you're just using randoms to save your own time, while intentionally wasting theirs. You plainly state you value your time, but are upset about the fact other people value their time.

Not really surprised the thread was more or less a troll to begin with. Almost every single time a thread is shaped in a "I care about new people" narrative, it's just someone trolling.

Have fun, and you should work on being better at trolling.

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11 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Killing voms afterwards is pretty useless, the amount of standing the cores give is laughable. There is a big difference between just not being as fast as someone else to the extraction point and intentionally wasting time.

First thing first, it's a public session where you can't expect people to play your way. Those who want to get voms for extra standing while going back is okay for public

11 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Tridolons is designed for far more experienced players than those who dont even know what the archwing launcher is

 

11 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

If you dont have an archwing launcher you have no place in tridolon hunts. Come back once you've progressed a little bit more in the game.

Again, it's public. Having an archwing launcher or doesn't doesn't decide who has a place in eidolon hunt or not. If you want to do tridolon efficiently you use recruiting chat, not joining public.

And the OP is referring to eidolon Teralyst (Terry), not tridolon

11 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

This sounds like you're just trying to bait people into saying something reportable by intentionally being slow.

If you dont want to get carried and called out for it, upgrade your gear.

once again, it's public session, not a premade squad

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18 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

"Can" and "Should" aren't the same. You can waste everyone's time, but you shouldn't. Contrary to what you might think, if enough people made an issue over the fact you're actually doing what you're doing purely out of your own enjoyment, you wouldn't be around for long. People have been permanently suspended from Warframe for less.

No where did I ever state that I'm "doing what I'm doing purely out of my own enjoyment." I have stated time and time again that it is not okay to harass or bully someone for choosing to make the most out of a single run of anything just because it isn't going how you want it to. If I choose to enter a public group to save some time without the worry of rushing then I have that right, but no one has the right to harass because they're too lazy to find a pre-made group that will run content how they want it to.

 

24 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

It's also silly to compare your intentional decision to make every group you run into wait for you to someone that lacks experience with any given content. The other person is actually trying their best to waste as little time as possible, with some even have anxiety over the fact they're likely not contributing; where as you're just using randoms to save your own time, while intentionally wasting theirs. You plainly state you value your time, but are upset about the fact other people value their time.

Not really surprised the thread was more or less a troll to begin with. Almost every single time a thread is shaped in a "I care about new people" narrative, it's just someone trolling.

Have fun, and you should work on being better at trolling.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, you're entitled to your beliefs and opinions but the fact of the matter is that harassment and bullying is never okay, and just because someone isn't god-tier like another, does not mean any of it is allowed. Kindly take your decisions to defend those who want to harass others and do it elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

@Whibbs

For you OP, remember there's a "leave squad" option if they're complaining and try setting your matchmaking to invite only or solo. Those people don't worth bothering

The idea is that I shouldn't have to play solo just to avoid being harassed because I want to save some time. Those that do the harassing because they feel their time is being wasted when they're the ones that decided to join a pub group, well, that's the issue. Others are calling me selfish for wasting a minute of someone else's time, but I'd say its pretty selfish to expect me to waste 10 minutes of my time to save one minute of theirs.

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12 hours ago, Whibbs said:

'This is how Pubs should behave, anyone behaving differently than I say is wrong, and they're the ones who should make their own squad not me!'

Pubs are free for all's. You're free to be slow, they're free to yell at you for it, and you're free to ignore them and/or yell back. 

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Just now, -Augustus- said:

Pubs are free for all's. You're free to be slow, they're free to yell at you for it, and you're free to ignore them and/or yell back. 

Sure, yell and complain away. Despite what others believe, I'm not intentionally trying to waste others time, I simply want to make the most of mine just as much as they do.

I've been back to the game for barely 2 months and I've made more progress towards bettering myself in these 2 months than for the entire length of time my account has been here. I'm constantly and eagerly trying to make it so I don't have to deal with crap. I'd rather solo everything, but clearly I'm not 100% there yet and it's ignorant for anyone to believe that they were able to right from the start either.

All I know is, I'm tired of the debating. Harassment is wrong. No one has the right to dictate how someone else should play, and if you want to whine about it then have at it, but don't insult, harass and bully each other over it.

The extraction timer was implemented for a reason. Pub groups are not guaranteed. Recruitment chat is a thing for those of you who expect perfection. End of discussion from me, do with the post as you all see fit, I've made my point.

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