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Primed Sure Footed as a Login reward and where it is placed.


Farron.
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     I have played the game on and off for MANY years. Obviously since beta. I tend to spend most of my time on the game bingeing 30ish hours of gameplay over one or two weekends every month or so. Even having played on and off since the Beta I have yet to accumulate 200 days logged in but have over 50 days of played time (steam). Being the casual MR22 metaslave with 100 weapons waiting for weapon slots in my foundry I am, I look at the login reward locked mods like Primed Fury/Shred/Vigor being that nice minor increase to power but something I feel like I can definitely live without. Things like these mods don't hold me back from doing hours long steel path farms for fun or making meme builds to plague parties with. They are just minor increases to already good mods.

     Insert Primed Surefooted into the mix, one of the most undervalued mods by new players but loved by veterans and hardcore players. In the current Firestorm and AOE grouping meta this mod is a guaranteed exilus slot on every warframe. AOE weapons are widely used due to ammo efficiency and damage output needed for higher end content. For example without Prime Sure Footed you could shoot an enemy on the other side of the room and still get knocked down in normal indoor missions. People say Handspring/ Un-primed Sure Footed are ways to cope with it and while it is very doable in lower tier content makes the gameplay still feel incredibly poor. 100% is 100% and not 60% and Handspring still locks you in animation and if you get knocked down or animation locked when you shouldn't be in the Steel Path you are most likely dead. Not saying the knockdowns and knockbacks need to be removed or looked at but to be more available to be played around for newer players or players like me who can't log in every day.

     While I believe login rewards are important to have and it is good to have things that give player power as incentive and a gift for those who play often. I just think that Primed Sure Footed's effects on raw gameplay mechanics is too strong to be locked at something like 400 days. The mod is basically a requirement to use 1/5 of the guns in the game at a high level and is almost a requirement to feel relevant in the Steel Path. Like, I cannot understate the difference of how different things are with the mod verses any competing mod.

     I just feel like 400 days is too steep for people who start the game wanting to use all the cool explodey guns that all of the streamers and content creators are using to find out they cant do that without landing on their butt every other time they shoot until they play the game for 400 days. Even for players like me who are at an "end game" level of content without the 400 login days feel like I cannot use a large portion of the warframe arsenal to its fullest and in large it is because if this mod. I want to play this super late game content because I find it to rewarding and enjoyable but find my fun in the game locked behind being on my butt and such a large time gate. But, I guess there is always melee still.

Current gameplay: 4 hours into mission. Helminth ensnare/airburst > move in for primers > swap secondary primer for Condition Overload > swap melee (Thrown/Gunblade) primer for Condition Overload >Run away> swap AOE Primary > Shoot from across the room > Butt > Dead.

I know things like this are not needed to finish the star chart and steel path but my enjoyment comes from increasing difficulty in longer missions and it is the whole reason I try to make stronger and stronger builds. TFW even founders have login problems.

     

    

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I do agree that Primed Sure Footed is a problematic reward because it is a total game changer with regard to the current Meta.

Locking something so overpowered behind login rewards is a really asinine design choice and should be corrected. Either by returning self-damage to the table or by moving Primed Sure Footed to Baro and some other Primed Mod to a login reward.

 

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You mentioned a band-aid solution, but Power Drift and Sure Footed would be 90%. However that takes up two mod slots which some builds can't make that sacrifice. 

Regardless I do agree with 400 days is a bit steep. Previously I might have said the mod was nothing... until DE gave us self knockdown 😡 which is another complaint in itself.

 

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I'm sure that when DE changed Self-Damage into Self-Stagger

they completely forgot about Primed Sure Footed at the time and didn't realize it would completely nullify any drawbacks to blowing things up point blank.

 

but given its status as a Long Time Investment Login Reward, they are reluctant to nerf it for fear of pissing off all the players who "earned" it.

 

making it easily available earlier, or instantly via Baro/Simaris/Etc, would likely undermine the main reason they aren't nerfing it.

so If we assume my Cynical theory is correct, it is better for you to just Wait to get it; lest we All lose it.

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If anything

rather than make Primed Sure Footed more available

I'd like to see AoE weapons adjusted to make it less Needed.

 

tone down the radius for self stagger? maybe some kind of forgivness mechanic where the stagger is drastically reduced if the projectile hit a wall or Friendly Tenno, and wasn't intentionally into a Grineer's face?

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I’m mildly surprised to hear that the current stagger mechanic is considered such a detriment to blasting oneself with an AoE weapon. I’d have to agree that it makes me not want to explode myself (can get me shredded if I’m not careful as it knocks me out of my flow), but I was rather under the impression that it simply did not work to prevent players from blasting themselves in the face

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Primed Sure Footed is a meta prime mod IMO in the way it helps the mechanics tremendously in high level gameplays. Yet it doesn’t provide any direct damage or strength  increases.  I think it’s really fair to lock this reward hundreds of days away and that just makes it that much more valuable. Do you still remember how valuable Primed Chamber and few other items were? Now they are cheap as chips after the supply has been increased by a factor of 5000 or more. 

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I just got mine. I've only been playing around a year and a half or something.

Sounds like the incentive works fine:

You quit off and on for years while I played steadily. I should be rewarded for staying with the game and you shouldn't until you can do what me and others players did.

Edit: more than a year but you get the point.

Edited by (PSN)Madurai-Prime
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" I just feel like 400 days is too steep for people who start the game wanting to use all the cool explodey guns that all of the streamers and content creators are using to find out they cant do that without landing on their butt every other time they shoot until they play the game for 400 days"

There's multiple ways to avoid stagger.....

Nezha

Revenant

Titanias 1 on helminth.

The 2nd helminth ability that does the same as Titanias 1.

Regular sure footed and power drift gives 90%

Gauss 2.

And I'm sure there's a couple more I'm forgetting.

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     Thing is while yes I infrequent the game I cant log in every day like some people. I have a life and a job that takes me away from something I enjoy to do in my off time. I am not saying that Login Rewards are a problem but it is the scale at which specifically Primed Sure Footed alone changes how you play the game in this current meta and then it ALSO being locked behind login rewards. Like I said in the parent post things like Primed Vigor/Shred/Fury while they are good mods do not change on how you interact with the base game mechanics. Its place should be something that doesn't interfere with how you play the game but a power boost still. Something like Primed Stretch or something. It doesn't make or break the game and still gives a very good bonus to something that is already mostly fine on warframes like it is in the case of Primed Vigor/Shred/Fury. 

     I know there are bandaid fixes like running Sure Footed and Power Drift for 90%, but that is 2 mods and not one. It is 90% and not 100%. That is a one in ten chance to fall down and die in late Steel Path Survival/Disruption endurance runs.

     Things like Titania's 1 ability only works on duration frames and is taking up a Helminth ability that would otherwise be used on Airburst/Ensnare in most cases so its not worth it at all. Atlas is innately immune to knockdowns and Revenants ability however is a great workaround seeing as how if his Mesmer Skin falls off you die anyway. Same with Nezha and Gauss but require you to play those specific frames. Only thing is that all of these that are tied to abilities can be nullified by enemies whereas Primed Surefooted is just one mod slot and cannot be nullified.

     The only way to truly deal with it and retain flexibility in the choice of warframe is Primed Sure Footed and BIG copium with Handspring. Primed Sure Footed is too powerful to be locked behind login rewards. Some people said similar things about Primed Chamber but it was literally only really useful on the Vectis Prime with a -Magsize riven at the time. Everyone wanted it so they could hunt eidolons and now you can one shot an eidolon part with most weapons in the game so what did it even matter? It is only expensive platinum wise because because of rarity not the power of the mod nowadays. 

    To point, things that change how you interact with the base game mechanics should not be locked behind login rewards. I just do not see the problem at all in lowering it in days needed or moving it to Baro and replacing it with something less meta-defining and still giving players who met the requirements have this other thing. Because I will still play out the next 221 days falling on my but EVERY time I shoot and deal with it. It is just frustrating to sit here and have to wait a year and a half to be able to use 1/5th of the games arsenal to its intended fullest capacity.

Edited by Farron.
P3 Clarification on last sentence
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On 2021-09-15 at 6:16 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

but given its status as a Long Time Investment Login Reward, they are reluctant to nerf it for fear of pissing off all the players who "earned" it.

Didn't stop them from Nerfing the Zenistar.... So they may aswell just do it... ,😈 

On 2021-09-15 at 6:23 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

If anything

rather than make Primed Sure Footed more available

I'd like to see AoE weapons adjusted to make it less Needed.

It's what I want more than Anything 💔

On 2021-09-15 at 7:14 AM, (NSW)Greybones said:

but I was rather under the impression that it simply did not work to prevent players from blasting themselves in the face

Apparently it did.... I too am also surprised by how many people wanted to Avoid this.

On 2021-09-15 at 7:42 AM, George_PPS said:

Primed Sure Footed is a meta prime mod IMO in the way it helps the mechanics tremendously in high level gameplays. Yet it doesn’t provide any direct damage or strength  increases.  I think it’s really fair to lock this reward hundreds of days away and that just makes it that much more valuable. Do you still remember how valuable Primed Chamber and few other items were? Now they are cheap as chips after the supply has been increased by a factor of 5000 or more. 

Normally I would disagree... But since it has an Alternative in the Form of Handspring I guess it's fine.... But only for this Instance.... I feel differently about Primed Vigor, Shred and Fury...

49 minutes ago, Farron. said:

 I am not saying that Login Rewards are a problem

If you won't then I will 😁 !!!

51 minutes ago, Farron. said:

 

     I know there are bandaid fixes like running Sure Footed and Power Drift for 90%, but that is 2 mods and not one. It is 90% and not 100%. That is a one in ten chance to fall down and die in late Steel Path Survival/Disruption endurance runs.

The more Practical Alternative is Handspring.... It simple speeds up the Knock Down Animation so that it matches Primed Sure Footed's Stagger Duration....  

 I do believe there is one important Difference though.... Primed Sure Footed also minimises any Displacement that would have been caused by a Knock Down while Handspring Does Not... 

58 minutes ago, Farron. said:

Some people said similar things about Primed Chamber but it was literally only really useful on the Vectis Prime with a -Magsize riven at the time.

Actually I heard that even then that specific build still wasn't Optimal.... I don't have Primed Chamber so I don't know...

 

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I think Pumpkin Spice Frappuccino needs a nerf, and I'm willing to take the heat for my opinion. 

I think it should only protect you from ENEMY knockdown, NOT self stagger. 

There. Now maybe people won't whinge about not having it so damn much. 

And for the record I think primed mods should be entirely removed from the reward pool for login rewards and replaced with something else. It's a bad way to lock people out of gameplay. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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8 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

And for the record I think primed mods should be entirely removed from the reward pool for login rewards and replaced with something else. It's a bad way to lock people out of gameplay. 

+1

 

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3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

 

+2 

Does Google+ even exist anymore? I actually don't know.. but yh, I agree, though i never drank a pumpkin spice frappuccino.. idk, not my thing. 

I used to work at Starbucks like a decade ago, and I just can't shake it. No matter how many times I see PSF, I will just think of those vile frozen smoothies. Pumpkin Spice is bad enough, but put it in a coffee smoothie... blugh. 

On topic though, I am convinced the vast majority of people who are clamoring for PSF RIGHT NOW, want it to remove the self stagger. I think we have reached the point of no drawback at all to explosive weapons, and maybe that needs to change. 

If people are worried about getting knocked down by enemies, Silence is subsumable for every frame now, and literally turns off like, I think basically all the enemy knockdown abilities lol. I know I don't run PSF on my regular Silence Ash build, and since I started using Silence I honestly cannot remember getting knocked down or pulled... 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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Have they changed primed surefooted since its release? Mines sitting there completely untouched since its "avoidance" locked you into an uninterruptible animation of you dodging  longer than actually just getting yourself up with handspring. Had the thing for years now and handsprings always done just fine at keeping me back on my feet and fighting even with my sporelacer knocking my ass out frequently. 

That said if they are planning on moving primed surefooted out of the log in rewards i hope theyre going to retroactively give those of us who actually did the log in grind something for devaluing our time like that. Fairly sure at the time of release we needed 800 days logged in for it.  

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On 2021-09-15 at 12:16 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I'm sure that when DE changed Self-Damage into Self-Stagger

they completely forgot about Primed Sure Footed at the time and didn't realize it would completely nullify any drawbacks to blowing things up point blank.

That was the same update it got buffed to resist staggers and to not use the blocking animation when resisting a knockdown, so no, I doubt they forgot about it.

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6 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

"Give compensation for those who did the login grind.."

You're joking right?

I dont think it's bad practice to give something back when you decrease the value of something in game. Warframe is very bad at that and seeing people walking about with things that took upwards of 2 years to obtain being handed out like candy would yes, be devaluing it to everyone who did the grind to obtain it. I never said it had to be something of equal value, or even of the power creepy sort. They gave shoulder sigal cosmetics when raids were removed, why not a lil glyph, or sigal, or hecc even a peculiar mod that staggers you even more than usual. 

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41 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

I dont think it's bad practice to give something back when you decrease the value of something in game.

Although I agree with this in General... I disagree with it in this specific case because really want a reward for Attendance ? I don't think games should get into the Habbit of Rewarding something so Unimaginative and Non-Engaging...

45 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Warframe is very bad at that and seeing people walking about with things that took upwards of 2 years to obtain being handed out like candy would yes, be devaluing it to everyone who did the grind to obtain it. I never said it had to be something of equal value, or even of the power creepy sort. They gave shoulder sigal cosmetics when raids were removed, why not a lil glyph, or sigal, or hecc even a peculiar mod that staggers you even more than usual. 

How About a Stug ?  😁

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Sure Footed and its primed version should only protect us against knockdowns inflicted by enemies.

Self knockdown is the only thing that *tries* to balance aoe weapons after self damage was removed, however it fails in such task simply because prime sure footed exists and negates its impact, leading to the current mindless aoe fiesta with no drawbacks.

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1 hour ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Sure Footed and its primed version should only protect us against knockdowns inflicted by enemies.

Self knockdown is the only thing that *tries* to balance aoe weapons after self damage was removed, however it fails in such task simply because prime sure footed exists and negates its impact, leading to the current mindless aoe fiesta with no drawbacks.

Exactly.

And if they made that change, it would still be a useful mod, but it would not feel so meta, and people would not be so upset it is locked behind log in days. Nobody is making these threads about Primed Shred because it isn't meta. But PSF IS meta, solely because it protects against self knockdown. So people keep making these threads and will continue to do so as long as it remains meta. 

Someone who is waiting on log in days and is worried about enemy knockdown can just slot in Subsumed Silence and shut down all enemy knockdown abilities, so its not like they NEED IT right now. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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