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I think The New War might not be as emotional as DE and players may want it to be.


Joezone619
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5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

*I'm in this comment and I don't like it* :tongue:

But seriously though, that's pretty much the truth. 

Anyone who likes the lore, even if I wouldn't put myself in the echelon of some lore hounds, just wants more story and to get some updates and see where we are going next.

We know there probably will be some gameplay updates and additions too, but even those who would prefer that are mostly expecting more story. It is a story update, and the lore-hounds will take anything. They just want more story, they aren't going to be fussed what it is. Leave it a bit open for speculation and voila, you have a satisfied lore community. 

The impression I have, which could be totally wrong, is characters like lotus, teshin and clem and a few others are really beloved characters the community... that hasn't done anything since 2018?

Seems an odd choice to me not to milk it, I mean that's the point out here I figured, to give the customers what they want.

Even if they had to resort to budget versions at times, smaller cutscenes or even just a voice over, it just seems really strange to me to have characters in high demand and then let them sit on the sideline for so long.

Dating back to morrowind they added supplemental deep lore via straight up text for people who wanted to get really into it, which is to say the market and the demand is there, the interest in it.

 

The lore to me is kind of like the oblivion gates.

You get this urgent message you have to go do some world ending quest but then you can just go lollygag and ignore it. How important can it be.

How much does it matter to the game and the in-universe if it's just a cutscene lying on a shelf.

To me in a video game Player One is the main character and their interaction with the interface is the story.

So for instance if your GF is really stoned and you talked her into playing GTA for the first time, preferably Vice City, not the consolized versions IV and V, have her go in blind and experience hilarious situations and reactions, then that's the story.

I know elon musk is super paranoid about robots and AI taking over, as an example of someone who probably shouldn't smoke, but I grew up on windows blue screens and 'escort missions'.

Can't take bots seriously, AI, cutscenes and voice over are a joke to me. Like if I watch a movie trailer it literally makes me laugh at how generic and flat it is.

I can't stop picturing the facial expressions of the actor or I will mimic it and laugh at what my face muscles have to do to reproduce.

Or sit there and go "cue dramatic sound bit" where I don't think it's possible to much further removed from "immersion" than I am.

 

People on the other hand I find much more interesting to the point I almost only play co-op games. People are always surprising you, being creative, unpredictable and hilarious, sometimes even on purpose.

In a video game the player is running the show so the whole industry concept of "errand boy" missions is simply outdated and primitive.

Then AI needs to move to a whole other galaxy to be able to stimulate the human brain vs AI... for me to get into it.

 

Think about it, most if not all games, chess, boxing, football, the very first thing, the fundamental concept is being able to predict the opponent and then improvise, bluff and throw them off at the same time.

Which ties directly into "playing", which is where the human brain is so extremely badass, because we can improvise, create entirely new situations or outcomes we haven't been coded with.

What happens if you don't know what to do about an obstacle you never saw before, you play with it - which is where curiosity and adventure comes in, fun.

When I watch a cutscene, first I am removed from taking an active part - even though I am 'the user' /tron 1982, and the outcome is determined, and, it has no impact on the game.

Where is the play in that, the problem solving, engagement, creativity and interaction. To me it's dead pixels on a screen.

So I would actually say video games are in the dark ages, tragic how simplistic, repetitive, predictable, static and formulaic they are.

The bar for "fun" has to be, I mean, we haven't even gotten on the bus, to get to the airport to take a plane to the foot of mount everest of where we should go.

 

Anyway it's an interesting topic, I don't know if lore people would say I just don't have any imagination lol.

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1 minute ago, Reitrix said:

You dont have to have played it to see what they've done. 
But I'll save you the effort of looking.
Every expansion introduces an entirely new progression system that gets deleted at the end of said expansion to make way for a new progression system in the latest expansion. 
AKA, Blizzard Logic = spend hundreds of work hours building systems with the specific intent to delete it later.

Hmm, well at least I can see the thought behind it, even if it's still stupid in the end

 

Making new systems means people won't get bored since they'll always have new stuff to learn & experiment with; but then others may found it frustrating to have to forget everything they learned so far just to learn it again, & that over & over

So yeah, dumb idea on their part

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1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

No more cetus

You see... now plague star is going live but once it is gone, PoE will return to normal. So I presume New War is something like that.

As per your thread title, you mean those responses in Twitch during the demo? I find that those people only existed in Twitch where they cheer etc when DE show new stuffs... but the outside of Twitch, the forum etc all are different people who will complain etc the same thing those people in Twitch cheered about.

So don't get too emotional yourself. When New War is out, just enjoy it. As if you are with the game long enough, you won't bother about what emotion n stuff cos you will have seen what's all they can do... resulted in only playing the game when new update is out, no feeling, emotion, hype etc. 

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3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Potential Spoilers Ahead

 

Its clear from the 30minute demo, that cetus and potentially all free roam area's, will be overrun and lost. And i don't mean as in "No more cetus", i mean as in under sentient control, a shift of faction control. I can't speak for others, but i don't really care about cetus or the other free roams at all. What i was hoping would happen, is that they'd be expanded upon in the future after they were released, instead it seems DE has genuinely abandoned them. There are still countless bounty bugs and softlocks, and even issues with the orb mother fights still.

Essentially what needed to happen IMO is that the free roam area's needed to be reworked, added to, expanded upon. One main reason i don't go to any of these places is due to the bounty system, and how it handles the rewards. It offers a random assortment of rewards that the player may be interested in, from lenses, to endo and credits, to kuva. But in most cases for credits, endo, and kuva, there just isn't nearly enough rewarded. Simply put, i don't think the bounty reward system is good enough to warrant not choosing your reward/having influence over it in some fashion.

But back to my point, i don't think players are as emotionally attached to cetus, and the other free roams as DE thinks. They've waited so long to make the new war, and haven't touched the free roams since they're releases for so long, the feeling has really dulled down for me. I'm hoping DE can make the new war as good as myself and many others want it to be, but i don't think they know their player base enough to actually do it, especially given they've ignored the majority of feedback on recent updates, its clear they've grown out of touch.

 

TLDR: I'm worried about The New War, and DE's ability to satisfy their player base, after waiting so long to make it.

 

But that's just my opinions/worries, I'd like to hear what other people are thinking about the new war. Or what they like/dislike about the free roam areas.

I don't think DE will rework the open world areas. I think it'll be one and done and we move on. Although, I do think doing something like having the sentient invasion run until, say, players hit a certain threshold in how many sentients they've defeated would be a great idea. Not just in the open world areas, but the entire starchart itself. But that's just me.

I want the story to be good and fun. If it's great then I'll be happy, if it has a great story and is fun to play I'll be happier.

 

2 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Are players all that emotionally invested in Warframe from a lore standpoint in the first place? I feel like most people care about, say, Baro insofar as he gives stuff. And even if stuff is rerouted, I doubt they'll close off things outright. If Konzu were to kick the bucket tomorrow, I don't think we'd be all that miffed.

Personally, the big intrigue I have for the New War has nothing to do with Cetus or even the Tenno and everything to do with the Sentient. There's a lot of intrigue around their social structure, why they're attacking now, even what they're like outside of warfare. They were made for terraforming, not military, after all. Do they play a game of IRL Minecraft back in Tau? (Legit, I want a Sentient open world, just to see what their world is like)

 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I can't speak for everyone else but I sure as hell am not invested in Warframe's lore. It is an absolute mish-mash of ideas and quite frankly I find the story the weakest part of Warframe. 

 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

This is why I just don't care about Warframe's lore anymore.

DE has proven time and time again that they just throw random stuff together in this game. Retconning lore to fit new stuff, making weird design choices, not fixing polishing bugs etc.... Warframe is just a big pile of random ideas and it is pretty obvious from the lore that this isn't going to change anytime soon. All of the major bosses, characters etc. are isolated. The Kuva queens? Done and done in one mission never to be heard from again. Stalker? Irrelevant. Kela de Thame? Irrelevant. etc. etc.

You get little tiny bits of lore related stuff sprinkled randomly through missions but outside of the isolated story missions this stuff ends up being the same tired lines of dialogue over and over again. I honestly don't understand why any of us take this stuff seriously whatsoever. Warframe's story is like fan fiction of its own material.

The unfortunate thing about all of this is DE has, at their disposal, a game that can have a great story with characters. The backstory is there, things they can build off of and provide something great. Heck, something even fantastic. With what DE has done, there is potential to build something fantastic. Unfortunately, as is the case with Warframe, the potential is not met. I agree DE come up with things they like and add it in regardless of whether more can be done with it. It sucks because the game has potential. It sucks even more when one realizes that potential will be squandered.

Edited by (PSN)DoctorWho_90250
added the word "with" at the end of the third to last sentence.
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2 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Ah yes, DE invested hundreds of work time on all of those systems that we invested time in so it can be completely destroyed later, never to be seen/played again

 

WTF kind of logic is that?

FF14 did it as well, but because they had to. The game that launched was terrible and it needed to be reworked...so the new studio head literally had the game destroyed...and used it to build the story off of. They even made a cutscene that played when the servers went offline.

This is it! When FF14 1.0 died.
 

This became a significant event in the game and it remains significant in regards to lore and story .

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lol no need to "worry" about anything.

it won't be The Last Of Us. just like every other missions it will be go to yellow waypoint and kill stuff there. rinse and repeat until you get reward.

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Last Tennocon was the least informative showcase they've ever had. I STILL don't know what they were showing us. 

Apparently it's so game changing, that they can't even hint at what it means for Warframe or it will spoil it. 

I don't care about emotions, I just want it to be worth the wait. And the secrecy. 

 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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You guys saw the first 30m of a quest and are making big assumptions. What if some mysterious force of magic wielding children in battle suits repels the invasion and business goes back to normal? Just a hypothetical.

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The content DE decided to make doesn't satisfy MEEEE, MYYYY feedback was no acted upon, so I'm gonna be a doomsayer and proclaim that DE doesn't listen to the community, and that the new war might end up bad if it doesn't become the crazy unviable hodgepodge of ideas that IIIII have.

DE listens to us, they're among the studios that do it the most. They just don't implement every single stupid idea that are thrown out on the forum.

You have completely unreasonnable and missplaced expectations.

"Players aren't attached to cetus" speak for yourself.

You don't go there because "the rewards are not good enough to warrant not having influence over it" .. yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense. If that is really what puts you off, then you should better leave the game, because that kind of rng is everywhere in this game and, most of the time, worst than bounties.

Can't forget to remind every two sentences that it's your opinion too, wouldn't want to go out without that shield.

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12 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

I'd like to hear what other people are thinking about the new war. Or what they like/dislike about the free roam areas.

I have a feeling that since newer players will continue to join - probably in droves - post New-War, DE's easiest solution would be to make the New War affected Starchart a third separate option like Steel path. that way, newer players and those who still need resources from current tilesets can get it, while the rest of us can run the post-war version of the Tileset that would be inhabited by Sentients and have a totally different landscape. the benefit is that after completing New War's quest, anyone would be able to switch between the way the system used to be, and the way the system is now.

as for the quest being emotional.. I kind of doubt it, at least for myself. I honestly don't really like/care much for Lotus as a character and would be fine with her being gone, but I doubt reb would ever give up her role in-game, or that the devs would kill her off as it would mean re-writing a LOT of mission dialogue. logically, it's clear Lotus isn't going anywhere, and since there's no risk of losing the character, there's no reason to be worried about their fate. 

let's just wait and see what New War brings.

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15 hours ago, Leqesai said:

This is why I just don't care about Warframe's lore anymore.

DE has proven time and time again that they just throw random stuff together in this game. Retconning lore to fit new stuff, making weird design choices, not fixing polishing bugs etc.... Warframe is just a big pile of random ideas and it is pretty obvious from the lore that this isn't going to change anytime soon. All of the major bosses, characters etc. are isolated. The Kuva queens? Done and done in one mission never to be heard from again. Stalker? Irrelevant. Kela de Thame? Irrelevant. etc. etc.

You get little tiny bits of lore related stuff sprinkled randomly through missions but outside of the isolated story missions this stuff ends up being the same tired lines of dialogue over and over again. I honestly don't understand why any of us take this stuff seriously whatsoever. Warframe's story is like fan fiction of its own material.

They've made some steps towards fixing that, but really only with current content, as it were.

Compare the Entrati to the Solaris. The Entrati are certainly a 'new' idea, and a new sub-faction of an existing group. However, their existence was not only foreshadowed by Parvos, but they make sense. They're a family of Orokin, Father refers to meeting Ballas once or twice, and they use typical Orokin technology, albeit clearly with a slightly macabre edge to make them stand out. They're not the best exampe of integrating a new group into an existing world, but steps are clearly taken to make them seem like a natural extension The Solaris weren't ever really foreshadowed with how the Corpus worked, they don't really exist in the rest of the setting, they use a substantially different artstyle to other Corpus, and even Little Duck, a character established to have spent a long time in Cetus, had no established relationships outside of Fortuna when she dropped in. Most Fortuna citizens still only exist within Fortuna to this day - same for the Ostrons.

This is not dissimilar to how DE had basically no interest in a larger canon storyline for some time, and after they did, made little effort to integrate the old lore into the newer, more established storyline. The classic example being Patient Zero being unlocked after the Second Dream, despite occuring before. DE is honestly pretty bloody good at writing compelling stories and worldbuilding in my opinion, but it's like how they're also pretty bloody good at making a really compelling video game with strong mechanics - they can but they won't update the foundations of that experience to let that work shine.

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Personally I dont think there will be much long lasting impact. I can see a potential of a new mission node being available from the PoE star chart marker after completion of new war or accessible through a bounty in cetus/bounty boards in the plains. 

We wont get a silly WoW rebuilding outcome, since this just isnt an MMO, nor is the game set up with a quest system similar to WoW either. WoW could rebuild their world since they'd revamp all content to fit the new world, with new quests in the rebuilt zones that served the same purpose as the old. In WF we have a personal story that we follow, so changing PoE for instance would break old lore and toss around chronology. So PoE needs to be kept intact so people that have and havent done new war can still go there whenever for the pre-new war activities. Anything else would lead to spoilers etc.

It wouldnt really be logical to change PoE just because the new war starts, since it all really only happens to a single tenno. So if a new tenno completes Vor's Prize and then just heads out to PoE, it would make no sense if the plains are changed into a new war or post- new war setting, because that tenno still isnt that far in his/her timeline. For that tenno the the attack of the sentients might still be years away.

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i just want something new, i dont care if it will be "emotional" or "stupid" or whatever, i just want something to break up the current grind of the game.

bringing back old events dos not count and where is the advertised squad link that was promised outside that one failed event?

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I'm interested in it just to see if it's because of that quest taking so long that we have poor "big" updates with rushed core features in them or halfed assed content.
Or if it's just what's DE wants now.

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14 hours ago, Soy77 said:

lol no need to "worry" about anything.

it won't be The Last Of Us. just like every other missions it will be go to yellow waypoint and kill stuff there. rinse and repeat until you get reward.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

These worries seem to be largely based on some very large assumptions.

Maybe just stop thinking about the New War and play it when it arrives.

So these two answers sum up my outlook on this fairly well.

I do not understand why people choose to worry over and build hype over things they cannot control or have little actionable information about in a video game.

I understand players like to invest themselves emotionally in the stories and characters within these games, I just don't truly understand why because of how my brain is wired.

This kind of speculation in some attempt to feel bad about things before they are even live in a video game truly baffles me. There are enough real life things in my world for me to worry over, spending this kind of emotional currency on the changes in a video game is simply something I do not understand.

I prefer to just wait and see what a game maker creates and play it, or not, as it suits me.

Why build negative hype? What purpose does it serve?

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On 2021-09-14 at 6:58 PM, Joezone619 said:

Its clear from the 30minute demo, that cetus and potentially all free roam area's, will be overrun and lost. And i don't mean as in "No more cetus", i mean as in under sentient control, a shift of faction control. 

Its probably more then that, likely every planet in the Origin System will be effected. Its an invasion. What the New War could be is a change to the entire Star Chart with the lore of the main line quest. Something like how the Lichs/Sisters take over a system when we engage with them where we (the tenno) could have to clear out the areas invaded. 

Like a real war. They have said they want to create a "war" environment so Im hoping thats kinda how it goes. 

On 2021-09-14 at 6:58 PM, Joezone619 said:

TLDR: I'm worried about The New War, and DE's ability to satisfy their player base, after waiting so long to make it.

HAHAHA. Read the forums. Theres always a percentage of the playerbase that's basically only happy, when they are sad.  They wont satisfy everyone. And this playerbase loves to whine. I just hope that this update gets us closer to Planes of Duvri because I personally really want to see my Operator become an adult. 

And to take that even further. Id love to head to the Tao system, I hope that's where we eventually go. 

Edited by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim
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