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DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated


iPathos
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Right, I'm pushed to doing this because I am sick to death of DE either ignoring entirely, or refusing to respond, expand on, detail, acknowledge, or in any way interact with the community outside of their own very limited stream response. Sure, they have a lot of "community streams" happening, but the actual responses given to any real concerns during those is little to none on  a good day. I'm tired, I'm annoyed, I'm frustrated and I'm entirely sure they can do better. This has nothing to do with company acquisition behind the scenes - that happens with any game studio. This is longer-standing than that.

You used to be known as the devs who stood out because of how much you listened to the players, how much you really considered their input into your game and their feedback around not just what went in, but also what was an idea.

I understand that COVID-19 has been a barrier in many more ways than one, but this started before that even came onto the scene - it's only gotten that much worse since it did. I love Warframe, if I didn't I wouldn't have spent 4500+ hours in-mission and well over 12000 hours in total otherwise. If I didn't, I wouldn't have applied for the Guide of the Lotus position when it was known that you needed someone from the Oceanic region. I don't regret my input and time dedication because of that, but it does it make me question your own choices as we stand here.

 

The fact you even have bug report forums with a proper format is a huge boon, some of us have spent years asking you to fix those bugs with that exact format ad-infinitum. But here we are, with the bugs still in the game and with (in almost every case) no response. Please, both now and when you can act properly without having to worry about quarantine or social distancing, try to go back to why we loved you as developers in the first place. It's a sad story to even try to look at things as they are, it honestly depresses me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Also, as an aside; the Warframe Community Discord has never lost love for the game. We want to try contribute how we can to the community as a whole and to try to improve the game as best we see. Please, please, PLEASE; respond to people. It is not a good look and it makes us ever more frustrated as we await acknowledgement while reporting things that to many are very obvious.

As a few examples;

  • Voidrig's helmet spinning incorrectly with any other helmet than its default
  • Amalgam Furax Body Count behaving incorrectly because of the changes made with "Melee 3.0"
  • Many multiples of out-of-bounds areas being issues even though said areas are not out of bounds (such as several doors in the new corpus gas city tileset - they reset you for no reason with no preamble)
  • The current issue with Pathocyst dealing half of the damage it should when using Heavy Attacks.
  • Nidus Prime not counting for Invigorations (I am aware this may have been fixed with today's hotfix, I do not have Nidus Prime so I cannot confirm this from my own experience even so. The point is that it was still broken even after the first "fix".)
  • Merulina simply not allowing movement through multiple tilesets because of vertical issues where you "bonk your head", let alone the fact it should be moddable.
  • Expanded buff icons (only specific ones) for no reason
  • The issue with Buzlok and the Tenet Diplos's homing shots being almost incapable of hitting some enemies because they orbit endlessly til they time out.

There is a plethora of things that need to be acknowledged, if not at the very least told "Yes we're fixing it".
Talk to us. Let us know. Be the devs that let us fall in love with your creation, because as of late it just makes many of us angry about what you've become.

 

Edit: It seems I wasn't clear enough in my wording here - something I've attempted to clarify in later posts and in topic title changes. It's more communication from the team that I'm asking for here. I'm not asking for every bug report and every suggestion to be answered, be it in short or in detailed form; just...more than what we see as things stand. If that's not doable, please let us know. If there's no way to streamline the bug reporting process (like the later mentions of similar systems to the Minecraft Bug Tracker or Reddit Flair to make categorization or understanding simpler), then I may just have to live with the fact.

For those saying the mention of the Community Discord doesn't matter or that they don't care - that's fine, that's your opinion. I mention it because of the level of immersion in the discontent of players that is experienced there often. It's important to give my perspective on the matter because it gives context as to the reasoning. I have also never claimed to know anything about game design/development, let alone being any kind of expert on the matter; I say these things as I see them and as I am told of them.

Please ensure you check the whole thread before responding further, as without that you are only getting an incomplete picture of what I'm trying to get across here.

Edited by iPathos
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Very passionate. Weirdly personal. Game’s not designed by the players.   Many players don’t want to play the game unless it’s designed by them. 

Here’s hoping DE’ll fix those bugs and respond soon

edit: 🤔 I wonder if they’ll talk more once the New War has dropped

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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1 hour ago, iPathos said:

You used to be known as the devs who stood out because of how much you listened to the players, how much you really considered their input into your game and their feedback around not just what went in, but also what was an idea.

<snip>

There is a plethora of things that need to be acknowledged, if not at the very least told "Yes we're fixing it".
Talk to us. Let us know. Be the devs that let us fall in love with your creation, because as of late it just makes many of us angry about what you've become.

Years ago talking to a sales rep for IBM we were discussing the fact that IBM hadn't updated DB2 (IBM's database engine) for an IBM operating system called AIX in years...

The sales rep leaned in and whispered "Do you hear us screaming at you?" then smiled and walked away...making it clear IBM had no plans to update DB2 for AIX.

Replacing terms in that statement we get:

Years ago talking to a DE dev we were discussing the fact that DE hadn't updated <insert any long time bug> for Warframe...

*waiting for DE to lean in and whisper to the player community*

While DE may actually have plans to fix/update some of these bugs...DE is certainly screaming at the player base...

 

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1 hour ago, iPathos said:

Right, I'm pushed to doing this because I am sick to death of DE either ignoring entirely, or refusing to respond, expand on, detail, acknowledge, or in any way interact with the community outside of their own very limited stream response.

This rough because in my experience, and I have been playing since year 2,DE is a developer who braced the ideas of community all this years to develop Warframe and make it what it is today. Community was a big part of Warframes development and I really haven't seen that in any other game, not even close.

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vor 57 Minuten schrieb yarl5000:

I mean they already took care of that one, which is why reading the patch notes is important. 

reading is one thing but some problems shown that if it is written in the notes it does not mean it is entirly fixed some of the progress seems more like we tryed something maybe it should be fixed if not we require feedback kinda thing
for now im only after the realy bad things like gamebreaking things because that what most need fixing anyways

well but it is true that mentions of fixes maybe not work but at least it makes clear they try working on that thing what could be considered communication not a one that is ideal but something at least

Edited by Keiyadan
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17 hours ago, iPathos said:

Amalgam Furax Body Count behaving incorrectly because of the changes made with "Melee 3.0"

As someone who's made a thread on this I can attest to the futility of the endeavor. I've been active on the forums and game for a long time I can definitely say communication has broken down near the point of non existence. Getting a few soft ball questions asked by Rebecca once a month and then the dev team laughing about it on stream doesn't constitute healthy feedback loops.

I will hand it to DE Momaw though for some of the answers to bugs/game mechanics every once in a while, that's some good stuff. Also DE George in the sound forums is always acknowledging bugs/issues to let people know they're aware. To a lesser extent I see megan and danielle sometimes confirm they are working on bugfixes for issues too.

Edited by Skaleek
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Similar in game hours here. These issues/glitches all seem to be quality of life fixes that DE fixes in each and every Update small or major. Have you realized that game is now a HUGE game? There will always be countless things to fix or improve, But DE should only spend some time to fix them if they are game breaking. 
 

What I perceive what DE is doing now is that they are working on the all important and long awaited cross platform and also DE has stopped nerfing stuff crazy like in 2017-2020. That’s pretty good for me.

 

as for bugs? I prefer DE to spend just some but not all resources to fix them. That game is a problem and should be fixed is a fatal game development mentality and also killed the game until the ownership is changed early this year.  

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2 hours ago, yarl5000 said:
  • Nidus Prime not counting for Invigorations

I mean they already took care of that one, which is why reading the patch notes is important. 

I read the patch notes. They stated it was fixed in one patch and still had to fix it in a later patch, hence my statement. I do not have Nidus Prime or any of the current PA items, so I cannot test this.

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Very passionate. Weirdly personal. Game’s not designed by the players.   Many players don’t want to play the game unless it’s designed by them. 

Here’s hoping DE’ll fix those bugs and respond soon

edit: 🤔 I wonder if they’ll talk more once the New War has dropped

Then why do they have bug report and feedback forums? 
Bruh, I've spent years trying to help with these things and unfortunately my patience has only recently boiled over. I am tired of the lack of response and am going to post considering that in the future til things change.

2 hours ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Years ago talking to a sales rep for IBM we were discussing the fact that IBM hadn't updated DB2 (IBM's database engine) for an IBM operating system called AIX in years...

The sales rep leaned in and whispered "Do you hear us screaming at you?" then smiled and walked away...making it clear IBM had no plans to update DB2 for AIX.

Replacing terms in that statement we get:

Years ago talking to a DE dev we were discussing the fact that DE hadn't updated <insert any long time bug> for Warframe...

*waiting for DE to lean in and whisper to the player community*

While DE may actually have plans to fix/update some of these bugs...DE is certainly screaming at the player base...

 

Then why is the Trello board a thing?
Seems like a roundabout way to ignore players while also considering their inputs.

1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

DE is one of the most responsive and engaged dev teams around, especially considering the size of the playerbase.

They were. They haven't been anywhere near the most for years at this point in time.

41 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Wasn't this fixed in the hotfix yesterday?

Check my first response in this post.

38 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Similar in game hours here. These issues/glitches all seem to be quality of life fixes that DE fixes in each and every Update small or major. Have you realized that game is now a HUGE game? There will always be countless things to fix or improve, But DE should only spend some time to fix them if they are game breaking. 
 

What I perceive what DE is doing now is that they are working on the all important and long awaited cross platform and also DE has stopped nerfing stuff crazy like in 2017-2020. That’s pretty good for me.

 

as for bugs? I prefer DE to spend just some but not all resources to fix them. That game is a problem and should be fixed is a fatal game development mentality and also killed the game until the ownership is changed early this year.  

I've been playing for long enough, and have put myself forward in outside services to know that this is an ignorant reply. You're welcome to come help on our community Discord and see the PoV most of us see this from, or you can otherwise just browse DE's own Discord and see the same with far less responsiveness.

To all of the above, I have said this already. I'm tired of the lack of response in its entirety and DE needs to work on that.

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1 minute ago, iPathos said:

Then why do they have bug report and feedback forums? 
Bruh, I've spent years trying to help with these things and unfortunately my patience has only recently boiled over. I am tired of the lack of response and am going to post considering that in the future til things change.

What… are you expecting to happen when you post a bug report or bit of feedback? A little “Your post has been read”?

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8 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What… are you expecting to happen when you post a bug report or bit of feedback? A little “Your post has been read”?

Anything is better than nothing. The fact some of the bugs have been there for years and they deign to merge posts in said threads without responding or even acknowledging the issue is why I am annoyed at the situation. It makes the existence of the Trello board pretty much pointless, especially if you take the time to see what they actually post on it.

Edited by iPathos
Clarification around the Trello board.
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Just now, iPathos said:

Anything is better than nothing. The fact some of the bugs have been there for years and they deign to merge posts in said threads without responding or even acknowledging the issue is why I am annoyed at the situation.

I’ll be honest, it sounds more like you’re looking for something more specific than “Anything”

There’s all these bugs, but I for one don’t know why they’re still there, even if I would love to see them fixed too and am annoyed as well that they aren’t. I expect there’s some sort of priority system at play that we simply aren’t privy to, considering there’s a lot that we don’t know. By this point I would be very surprised if they didn’t know the years-old bugs are there

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’ll be honest, it sounds more like you’re looking for something more specific than “Anything”

There’s all these bugs, but I for one don’t know why they’re still there, even if I would love to see them fixed too and am annoyed as well that they aren’t. I expect there’s some sort of priority system at play that we simply aren’t privy to, considering there’s a lot that we don’t know. By this point I would be very surprised if they didn’t know the years-old bugs are there

Sorry, if you'd like to see the bugs that have been reported and never dealt with then please go view the bug report forums before responding as such. I'm looking for any response that acknowledges the bug itself, even if it says something along the lines of "we see this is a problem, we'll work on fixing it when we can". That is far better than merging posts in what seems to be an inactive thread and failing to even comment on the issue.

The entire purpose of the bug reports forum is to report said bugs as specifically as possible - what annoys me most about that is that there are countless small issues they can fix but instead we get micro-optimizations, prioritizing "silly points" to the majority, and failing to communicate with the public.

If you would care to reread my original post, you'd see that I'm most annoyed and disappointed because DE was better than this. They've fallen off big time in their interaction and it's more than a little noticeable.
Other than all of that, feel free to come see the bug reports given on the WFCD and then try come back to this with the same PoV.

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1 minute ago, iPathos said:

Sorry, if you'd like to see the bugs that have been reported and never dealt with then please go view the bug report forums before responding as such. I'm looking for any response that acknowledges the bug itself, even if it says something along the lines of "we see this is a problem, we'll work on fixing it when we can". That is far better than merging posts in what seems to be an inactive thread and failing to even comment on the issue.

The entire purpose of the bug reports forum is to report said bugs as specifically as possible - what annoys me most about that is that there are countless small issues they can fix but instead we get micro-optimizations, prioritizing "silly points" to the majority, and failing to communicate with the public.

If you would care to reread my original post, you'd see that I'm most annoyed and disappointed because DE was better than this. They've fallen off big time in their interaction and it's more than a little noticeable.
Other than all of that, feel free to come see the bug reports given on the WFCD and then try come back to this with the same PoV.

Hmm.

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What are “Silly points”?

Some of the ridiculously minor hotfix points that have been stated in the last five+ hotfixes.
Small clipping issues, minor visual bugs (and I mean very minor), unspecified "micro-optimisations", etc.

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What are “Silly points”?

Some of the ridiculously minor hotfix points that have been stated in the last five+ hotfixes.
Small clipping issues, minor visual bugs (and I mean very minor), unspecified "micro-optimisations", etc.

This is where I return to you the same statement made by yarl5000: "which is why reading the patch notes is important."
Very little of this helps to even slightly make any of us bug reporters in any way satisfied as to action - else as said before, it completely undermines the point of even having said forums.

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13 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Some of the ridiculously minor hotfix points that have been stated in the last five+ hotfixes.
Small clipping issues, minor visual bugs (and I mean very minor), unspecified "micro-optimisations", etc.

This is where I return to you the same statement made by yarl5000: "which is why reading the patch notes is important."
Very little of this helps to even slightly make any of us bug reporters in any way satisfied as to action - else as said before, it completely undermines the point of even having said forums.

Perhaps it’s a difference of expectations that we have between the two of us. I don’t expect much more than a blind hope that what I put out there is heard (I have a few level bugs lined up to post about), whereas you’ve had experiences in the past that told you that you were heard, and now you’re not experiencing that at the moment.

If that’s what it is, we might have to agree to disagree on the idea of being acknowledged (though I’m now curious about the WFCD)

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
phrasing
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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Perhaps it’s a difference of expectations that we have between the two of us. I don’t expect much more than a blind hope that what I put out there is heard (I have a few level bugs lined up to post about), whereas you’ve had experiences in the past that told you that you were heard, and now you’re not experiencing that at the moment.

If that’s what it is, we might have to agree to disagree on the idea of being acknowledged (though I’m now curious about the WFCD)

I refuse to acknowledge the fact that DE will maintain a bug report and feedback forum(s) without even remotely trying to respond to some of the posts within. Even before I came into this community, DE was a loving Dev who respected the majority of player opinions and gave feedback on them plus the ones they didn't stand for. As things stand, it's a far cry from what anyone should expect while they maintain that attitude.

If they change how they conduct themselves overall, then I will adjust my PoV and method of interaction as such. Until that happens, I will use their venues in the ways they are specified to be used and will voice my displeasure if they fail to even remotely act on anything within.

It very clearly shows us that they subforums and venues of feedback have no pull and are entirely pointless in the grand scheme.
Hence my overall frustration at the situation we're in. Hell, look at all the people complaining about the relevant enemies not spawning in Railjack missions, making codex completionists mald hard. I'm not a full completionist, but the same issue still infuriates me. It's an issue without actual reason.

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And I'm tired that daughter on Deimos still doesn't have the new fish parts from Arcana, we're going straight to a year of no update on her. Meanwhile pet tags were in sons inventory literally since launch, and have been there daily for everyone to grab.

And what about an Oull glyph? Does it even exist? 

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When the soul punch new mechanic came out I thought to myself if they even play with Nekros. Because of implementing a totally useless mechanic just to do it like in his prime trailer is far away from what Nekros really needs. And it only took almost 8 years for that. I'm not coming back to Warframe untill DE realizes how flawed nekros is and fix him good.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

And I'm tired that daughter on Deimos still doesn't have the new fish parts from Arcana, we're going straight to a year of no update on her. Meanwhile pet tags were in sons inventory literally since launch, and have been there daily for everyone to grab.

And what about an Oull glyph? Does it even exist? 

Entirely unrelated to this, make the threads or link them here if related.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Nekros9528 said:

When the soul punch new mechanic came out I thought to myself if they even play with Nekros. Because of implementing a totally useless mechanic just to do it like in his prime trailer is far away from what Nekros really needs. And it only took almost 8 years for that. I'm not coming back to Warframe untill DE realizes how flawed nekros is and fix him good.

Welcome to waiting on crap that likely won't happen. DE won't acknowledge most of these issues and thus they won't make a fix for them.

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  • iPathos changed the title to DE, you need to start actually acknowledging input from your community. We love this game, but it's looking more and more like you don't.
  • iPathos changed the title to DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated

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