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DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated


iPathos
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Keep in mind a few things, even though we all hate bugs and want them fixed:

DE had to close off some communications because of the players. People admitted to harassing devs on twitter and getting blocked over helminth changes they didn't like. Every little word or statement caused the community to cling on to it and flood the avenues of feedback basically acting like jilted lovers "But you said x y and z and it didn't come true so you lied waahhh". 

Games are made by these people called humans: they probably have these things of their own called "lives" and "friends and family", and there's also only 8 to 16 hours in a workday, and game devs are already known for being overworked.

Sometimes plans fall through and things don't work out. I'm not a programmer or anything, but I've heard the term spaghetti code used a lot in the past years and I know sometimes things aren't as simple as people coming into work and just fixing stuff and everything is happily ever after. 

I really doubt they're just intentionally not fixing something just to be mean. 

 

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I think Hanlon's Razor applies in full force here, for better or worse. I do think the devs at DE are still passionate, it's just that the company has always had a problem of poor management, lack of follow-through, and inept pipelining of content updates, problems that have all been allowed to fester over the years.

The problem with DE's approach to addressing bugs, design issues, and the like is that, unless it causes a huge fuss in the immediate or harms their grind loop, the devs prefer to bunch issues together and release them in one update as if it were new content, as was the case with the latest major updates. Outside of that, DE routinely has the approach of devoting all of their resources towards rushing a single big project out as soon as possible each time, which starves smaller projects of resources (sometimes to the point where they stagnate for years), and frequently leads to those big content updates coming out half-baked as well. This then creates more fires that DE vows to put out eventually, but rarely if ever properly does because by then they're focused on the Next Big ThingTM, and so the cycle begins anew.

This is a problem that's been pointed out for quite some time (I remember this being mentioned as far back as in 2018). What DE likely needs to fix these issues is a comprehensive reform to its organizational structure, accountability process, and development pipeline, but that would likely require treading on a lot of people's toes, which is why it hasn't happened thus far. However, I also believe that the only way for things to change is to speak up about these things and not simply settle for a suboptimal status quo. I think it is still worth asking for DE to change how they interact with their community even if they're not currently listening, and who knows, if enough people make enough noise that could perhaps start something productive, no matter how incremental, as has happened on certain occasions before.

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12 hours ago, iPathos said:
  • Amalgam Furax Body Count behaving incorrectly because of the changes made with "Melee 3.0"
  • Many multiples of out-of-bounds areas being issues even though said areas are not out of bounds (such as several doors in the new corpus gas city tileset - they reset you for no reason with no preamble)
  • The current issue with Pathocyst dealing half of the damage it should when using Heavy Attacks.
  • Nidus Prime not counting for Invigorations (I am aware this may have been fixed with today's hotfix, I do not have Nidus Prime so I cannot confirm this from my own experience even so. The point is that it was still broken even after the first "fix".)

Some stuffs are not obvious. When I read in path notes that you need to do e.g. 5 things to reproduce a bug I think "wow, what have you been doing dear bugreporter".

Still if it's posted then it should be fixed some day.

9 hours ago, George_PPS said:

These issues/glitches all seem to be quality of life fixes that DE fixes in each and every Update small or major. Have you realized that game is now a HUGE game? There will always be countless things to fix or improve, But DE should only spend some time to fix them if they are game breaking. 

It's huge but if you have time to fix Yareli skirt (afair it was her Noggle) but not Yareli itself or other recent stuffs that's EASY to do (e.g. give guaranteed 1 Holo per mission so unlucky people could get it in at least 40 missions) then you know something is wrong.

What's even worse is that they have time to nerf stuffs but not fix them (e.g. 2nd-ary Vermisplicer).

12 hours ago, iPathos said:

There is a plethora of things that need to be acknowledged, if not at the very least told "Yes we're fixing it".

It's worse than "acknowledgment". Things needs not to be erased. Yes. You read it right. After some time topics are "not searchable" (you can probably still link them if you bookmarked them). So people wasting time on reporting bugs that have been reported.

 

 

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11 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Very passionate. Weirdly personal. Game’s not designed by the players.   Many players don’t want to play the game unless it’s designed by them. 

Here’s hoping DE’ll fix those bugs and respond soon.

It's more like we have bugs such as projectiles not penetrating water in Plains of Eidolon that affects hunting that has existed before the Nintendo Switch version of the game did. The amount of backlog passionate players have outlined is all in the hands of DE. Profit-Taker still has a leg regen bug, it took a year for them to fix exploits that skip sections of the fight, and as iPathos commented later, the codex has been not finishable for years now.

Edited by Voltage
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3 hours ago, quxier said:

Some stuffs are not obvious. When I read in path notes that you need to do e.g. 5 things to reproduce a bug I think "wow, what have you been doing dear bugreporter".

In case you missed my later response to another user in this thread, I do read the patch notes. I've very carefully read them for years on end now, but as stated in the same post I'm referencing they claimed it was fixed in one patch and yet had to bring in a second patch with the same intent. Part of what I do as a member of the administration team on the Warframe Community Discord is ensuring I'm up to date with how my platform behaves in general - I also stated I can't even test this because I do not yet have any of the latest PA's items, let alone the fact that I don't have a Nidus invigoration this week and didn't have one last week. It's something I simply am unable to test myself in any capacity.

The entire purpose of this thread is to highlight the fact that DE has fallen a long way away from how they were previously perceived and to explain/detail why that is. 
I am well aware that many of them have to work from home at the moment, I am well aware they need time off. This is a longer-lived issue than the impact of COVID-19 and it needs to be addressed. As I said before, why have bug report and feedback forums if they accomplish nothing? It seems a ridiculous thing to have to point out, but it is the case and it's not only frustrating, but also saddening. I and many other passionate players do this because we love the game, the community, both of those and more. We want the game to be as good as it can be, but when we utilize the proper channels to try to help with that and nothing happens it is extremely discouraging.

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19 minutes ago, iPathos said:

In case you missed my later response to another user in this thread, I do read the patch notes.

I've read that you read about it... that sentence sound weird but it's probably ok.

I meant in general they write stuffs like this in path notes. Bug reporter have to do some weird stuffs (or just be lucky) to get this.

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Just now, quxier said:

I've read that you read about it... that sentence sound weird but it's probably ok.

I meant in general they write stuffs like this in path notes. Bug reporter have to do some weird stuffs (or just be lucky) to get this.

Ah my mistake in that case, I misread your reply. 😅

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Well, first things first, they should use 2 platforms to communicate with the playerbase at max, think about 100k players on twitch, 20k on reddit, 10k on twitter, 1k on discord and 1k here... listening to all of them is ridicolous and also mesmer the communication between players themselves.

As for the bugs and things like that, there should be a place like Minecraft's bug reporter. doesnt do anything more than say "Hey, this is a bug and we are fixing it" to eventually change to "Bug fixed", Trello board was in the right direction but could be better...

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14 hours ago, iPathos said:

They were. They haven't been anywhere near the most for years at this point in time. 

Still very much are. It's decreased a bit, largely (imo) because they've gotten burned a few times by negative reactions showing off very early versions that changed significantly on the path to a much later release. But just the act of having devstreams at all, or a public Trello board—you may not be satisfied with the level of responsivity, but it's head and shoulders over any major studio I'm aware of.

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6 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Still very much are. It's decreased a bit, largely (imo) because they've gotten burned a few times by negative reactions showing off very early versions that changed significantly on the path to a much later release. But just the act of having devstreams at all, or a public Trello board—you may not be satisfied with the level of responsivity, but it's head and shoulders over any major studio I'm aware of.

Have you been watching or regularly checking the aforementioned Trello board? There's little to nothing added or changed on it for weeks or months at a time. Even then, the things added are either blatant issues that a huge portion of the playerbase has remained vocal about or literal gamebreaking bugs that aren't fixed immediately. The Melee and Primary/Secondary sections have been empty for weeks and more, it's a self-defeating tool as things stand because it's not being used (or at the very least, is rarely being used) for its stated purpose.

They are not the only developers to host livestreams about their game, the fact they do is a huge plus for sure - but it doesn't have much if anything to do with the game's buggy state, actioning things that cause this or even acknowledging the issues (again, outside of things the entire playerbase is extremely vocal about). I and many others don't even get to experience the Devstream side of things until after the fact because of shift times. Sure I can watch the VOD afterwards, how does that help me communicate with them through or around those activities though? Even then, I know of a fair few players who have remained vocal here, on Twitch, in their Discord and on Twitter and yet still nothing is done in the vast majority of cases. It's tiring, frustrating, annoying and as I have stated several times it invalidates the entire point of both the Trello board and their subforums for feedback and bug reporting when there is no dev presence to be spoken of. Another great example of this is their own bug report and feedback megathreads - their presence has been nigh-invisible for far longer than it should have.

Again, I will acknowledge that they need time off and have difficulties surrounding their workspaces and overall workflow due to the current state of the world. I also (again) clarify that this issue has been occurring for longer than that was even a whisper on the wind. All I want is for things to stop being ignored en-masse, getting random hotfixes with no visible leadup or public discourse. We have a news console in the Orbiter, we have the subforums here, we have the Trello board, we have the megathreads. If DE didn't want to utilize them in what should be pretty obvious manners, why are they a thing and why are they pushed so vocally by them? It's frustrating and saddening because I and many others have watched this decline over the years, through the switch over to the relic system, the removal of trials, the hype building and penultimate reveals/experiences that follow, the lack of acknowledgement of issues in their own testing clusters and relevant forums. I could go on, but I think that should detail my PoV well enough.

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I have popped into a Few of Rebecca games at random. I think Megan Once and one other person who I can't remember ( Though I really want to pop into one of Steves games just to see how well he balances off his frames ) 

So they are actually there playing with the community, getting live feedback.

You got to keep in mind there are very few Community Managers and thousands of games running at once. They really can't reply to or interact with the hundreds of thousands of players at a time.

Edited by xxswatelitexx
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1 minute ago, xxswatelitexx said:

I have popped into a Few of Rebecca games at random. I think Megan Once and one other person who I can't remember ( Though I really want to pop into one of Steves games just to see how well he balances off his frames ) 

So they are actually there playing with the community, getting live feedback.

You got to keep in mind there are very few Community Managers and thousands of games running at once. They really can't reply to or interact with the hundreds of thousands of players at a time.

Refer to the post above yours.

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hace 16 minutos, quxier dijo:

What so good about Trello? It's just showing few stuffs they are aware of and that's all.

vv

hace 1 hora, VoidArkhangel dijo:

there should be a place like Minecraft's bug reporter. doesnt do anything more than say "Hey, this is a bug and we are fixing it" to eventually change to "Bug fixed"

We already have a lot of places where post feedback, so a place like this^^ should be created, it will also help to minimize the amount of duplicated bug reports on an already known bug.

Edited by VoidArkhangel
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3 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Refer to the post above yours.

You should refer to my post again. They can't respond to hundreds of thousands of players. They also have to prioritize issues. 

Critical Bugs - Always have Priority
Cosmetic issues like Clipping will have the lowest priority. 

Balance issues take time to fix because they have so many other things they are working on. Right now their priority is the Massive Update coming out in a few months. So its all hands on deck to make sure it can be in a ready state before the end of the year. Which is why you aren't going to see much on the Trello board.

Once the big update comes out the first month will be fixes to the big update. After that you will only start seeing other issues being addressed. So yes for next 4 months Trello board is not going to be super active.

----------

But to give you another example that Devs are listening.

When Plague Star Launched a few years ago it had a major issue - you actually had to kill a specific number of enemies to beat the event. The problem was enemies would spawn under the map or under the node. Making them impossible to kill.

So I recommended a small change, one of the DE devs responded to the Feedback saying it was a good idea they would implement it. The post was probably like on page 30, so that means they read 30 pages of feedback before seeing mine. 

------------

As for why Raids were removed, you may not have been here at the time when they announced it. The problem was raids broke everytime they had to update the game. Meaning that for every update they had to update the raid also. This drastically increased update time, so they cut the content. Another issue was low player count, but the major issue was really the constant breaking of the raids. 

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5 hours ago, Voltage said:

It's more like we have bugs such as projectiles not penetrating water in Plains of Eidolon that affects hunting that has existed before the Nintendo Switch version of the game did. The amount of backlog passionate players have outlined is all in the hands of DE. Profit-Taker still has a leg regen bug, it took a year for them to fix exploits that skip sections of the fight, and as iPathos commented later, the codex has been not finishable for years now.

And here’s hoping that they’ll fix those bugs and respond soon. I don’t think anyone is happy that those bugs are in the game, but sometimes it feels like the playerbase have taken Warframe into their own hands to fix and have claimed responsibility for the state of the game, when they simply can’t do anything about it and all they can do is point out bugs and provide feedback

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Just now, xxswatelitexx said:

You should refer to my post again. They can't respond to hundreds of thousands of players. They also have to prioritize issues. 

Critical Bugs - Always have Priority
Cosmetic issues like Clipping will have the lowest priority. 

Balance issues take time to fix because they have so many other things they are working on. Right now their priority is the Massive Update coming out in a few months. So its all hands on deck to make sure it can be in a ready state before the end of the year. Which is why you aren't going to see much on the Trello board.

Once the big update comes out the first month will be fixes to the big update. After that you will only start seeing other issues being addressed. So yes for next 4 months Trello board is not going to be super active.

----------

But to give you another example that Devs are listening.

When Plague Star Launched a few years ago it had a major issue - you actually had to kill a specific number of enemies to beat the event. The problem was enemies would spawn under the map or under the node. Making them impossible to kill.

So I recommended a small change, one of the DE devs responded to the Feedback saying it was a good idea they would implement it. The post was probably like on page 30, so that means they read 30 pages of feedback before seeing mine. 

------------

As for why Raids were removed, you may not have been here at the time when they announced it. The problem was raids broke everytime they had to update the game. Meaning that for every update they had to update the raid also. This drastically increased update time, so they cut the content. Another issue was low player count, but the major issue was really the constant breaking of the raids. 

The issue is that their presence isn't seen in those places. The example you gave just reinforces the issue because they clearly can do this, even if occasionally.

Cosmetic issues are one of the more common issues fixed when there have been actual bugs with mechanics for years - bugs that people repeat mentions of in large threads or otherwise in hotfix/content update threads - many of them on the first page. You saying they have to prioritize issues is entirely justified - the fact they have and push the Trello board with its apparent inactivity doesn't lend much credence to the fact that they are. The board has been nearly dead since close to the date it was introduced, it saw maybe a week of frequent to semi-frequent updates, then little to nothing since. Again, many of the issues that people are most vocal about can be seen in the larger/lengthier threads people have started and kept alive - there is nowhere near enough activity or acknowledgement to those or their own megathreads, to the point that people have already made threads pointing this out! 

If you take the time to check my profile, you'll notice I actually signed up two months before you did. I totaled about 497 completed raids over the course of my time within the scene and the last was within days of their removal - many of those were with others as the leader, but many were also led by me. You can see this by checking on trials.wf's records as the API it polls is still active even now. The only trial that often actually had issues was the Jordas Verdict - though few of those ended up being so egregious that players were entirely incapable of finishing their raid. We found ways to get around issues like Jordas perching for way too long, when he clipped into the perches themselves, when multiple clients or even the host couldn't interact with the spores, when the doors didn't open inside, when the nerves bugged out and more. Law of Retribution's biggest issues tended to make the raid simpler, not harder - examples being enemies simply not spawning in stage 2, or the track mines in the same place not spawning or interacting with the core's tram. There was the well-known bug that if someone disconnected before the pad puzzle was completed, the counter would take a good 5-10 minutes to update and acknowledge that player's disappearance - but it was still able to be completed. There's multiple terrain holes in that tile that were known about and had been reported early into my raiding career - they remain to this day.

I see where you're coming from with your position, but after spending five years working with and on the Community Discord's staff it only becomes more obvious. The player outcry is constant and memed about frequently because it's pretty much a fact of life at this point. A large number of the worst bugs have already been concisely explained and combined within singular threads, including all of the information DE asks for in their recommended bug report guidelines - still they remain unfixed. There may be hundreds of thousands of players interacting and reporting, that doesn't mean there's hundreds of thousands of bugs. A huge number of players simply end up with the same bug under either similar or differing circumstances, many of which are explained in painstaking detail. I say again the comment regarding the public test clusters - in every one of them there has been an outpour of responses, feedback and bug reports made within the cluster's subforum especially dedicated to that, yet many of the posts went unheeded. The tested content ended up implemented unchanged or close to it, the bugs still in effect and extortionate pricing or build costs for items left unchanged. It ends up taking an exponentially larger amount of people being very vocal and very annoyed before anything ends up being done in the vast majority of cases.

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I think we also have to acknowledge the era of video games we live in. 

Unless a bug is truly gamebreaking and/or really affecting gameplay statistics somehow, especially if it is a trickier one to solve, it may stay on the backburner for YEARS.

It's the reason why stuff that needs to be reworked or revisited languishes for years in Purgatory, wondering if they will ever be out. 

Lunaro

Conclave

RAIDS/Trials

Operators and Focus in General

That whole "Aligntment system" 

Pets/Companions .whatever, they need an update. 

Horrible rng for lich weapons that gets worse all the time., 

Mountains of bugs that we can't expect to be fixed anytime soon

K-Drives and Merulina in a horrible state. 

Mountains of weapons, frames and whole systems that need to be reworked or revisited. 

It doesn't make DE a lot of money to rework things or fix bugs or revisit old gameplay systems they moved to the "maybe when we have time someday" pile. 

So like most live service games today, they play only in an emergency when it comes to most bugs, at least in terms of priority, same with reworks, and just focus on pumping out new content after new content after new content to keep people focused on the next shiny thing and not thinking too much about the increasing backlog of problems. 

I mean, this seriously gets worse and worse with every major update. Every time they make a new frame, which is way too often at this point imo, it just adds another to the list of potential frames that people will beg for revisits or reworks for, often now very much when they are right out of the gate, when DE hoped to move on from that update. And it's not just frames. Every new PIECE OF CONTENT, gives more things people might want reworks for. It's reached a ridiculous point, but the rule of live service games today is publish or perish. 

Don't expect this problem to get any better. The live service gaming era sucks and most companies are between a rock and a hard place, as the saying goes. 

 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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8 minutes ago, iPathos said:

If you take the time to check my profile, you'll notice I actually signed up two months before you did. I totaled about 497 completed raids over the course of my time within the scene and the last was within days of their removal - many of those were with others as the leader, but many were also led by me. You can see this by checking on trials.wf's records as the API it polls is still active even now. The only trial that often actually had issues was the Jordas Verdict - though few of those ended up being so egregious that players were entirely incapable of finishing their raid. We found ways to get around issues like Jordas perching for way too long, when he clipped into the perches themselves, when multiple clients or even the host couldn't interact with the spores, when the doors didn't open inside, when the nerves bugged out and more. Law of Retribution's biggest issues tended to make the raid simpler, not harder - examples being enemies simply not spawning in stage 2, or the track mines in the same place not spawning or interacting with the core's tram. There was the well-known bug that if someone disconnected before the pad puzzle was completed, the counter would take a good 5-10 minutes to update and acknowledge that player's disappearance - but it was still able to be completed. There's multiple terrain holes in that tile that were known about and had been reported early into my raiding career - they remain to this day.

 

 

I think this paragraph is a clear example of disassociation of what is said and what you understood.

I said they had to patch the raid every update just to make the Raids work.

Your understanding was - "The Raids mostly work"

 

Timeline here is important.

The Raids were mostly working BECAUSE they were spending time EVERY UPDATE to fix the issue SO the RAID worked WHEN the update launched.

 

What does that mean?

That means the Raid Broke and Fixed - before ever being released to the Public. and yes sometimes it required More Patches to fix more issues. They had to work on the raid anytime they planned on releasing an update.  Those small details are quite important, what you said, not so much. 

Edited by xxswatelitexx
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42 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

vv

?

43 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

We already have a lot of places where post feedback, so a place like this^^ should be created, it will also help to minimize the amount of duplicated bug reports on an already known bug.

They should just do one thing but good. The forum has marking for questions. You have search function. Just combine 2 together.

You create topics that looks for similar stuffs. If it finds something similar then it should show you list of topics. It could be as simple as selecting good tags (e.g. weapon name).

You explain how to reproduce it and other important information. When DE fixes it they can close it (like "mark best answer with a link to update or something").

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5 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

 

I think this paragraph is a clear example of disassociation of what is said and what you understood.

I said they had to patch the raid every update just to make the Raids work.

Your understanding was - "The Raids mostly work"

 

Timeline here is important.

The Raids were mostly working BECAUSE they were spending time EVERY UPDATE to fix the issue SO the RAID worked WHEN the update launched.

 

What does that mean?

That means the Raid Broke and Fixed - before ever being released to the Public. and yes sometimes it required More Patches to fix more issues. They had to work on the raid anytime they planned on releasing an update.  Those small details are quite important, what you said, not so much. 

The difference in perspective is a very important detail - this is the reason I brought up my involvement with the Community Discord. I've seen the bug reports from players and offered advice, steps to fix, methods to avoid and overall just simply tried to lessen the blow caused by the very public inaction. I've seen this happen day after day, week after week, month after month, for years - that is why I'm posting about this in the first place, it's reached a boiling point for both myself and others. The fact those bugs I mentioned still happened after they'd "already broke and been fixed before ever being released to the public" is something that reinforces this. I am entirely aware that many other unrelated changes could cause catastrophic issues within the raids, there were lots of times they were unable to be completed because of the ones that "slipped through the cracks". Unfortunately, the vast majority of the rest of the playerbase has little to no agency to avoid or fix general gameplay issues that are already well-documented, 100% reproduceable and have been reported either recently or ages in the past. 

Circling back to other issues like the dev workshops for example, I'd like to highlight one particular post that I read just a little while ago:

Yet another instance of very publicly ignoring an overwhelming amount of the same feedback given by the players. Same situation with Yareli feedback. I acknowledge some of their interactions have been negative in the past, they are far and away the minority though. What you came back with there does very little to assuage my doubts about your own understanding of the scope of these issues. They are a big problem and they need some form of address, either sooner or later. 

Why are we given all of these tools to try to help highlight and fix problems if we're the only ones using them? 

16 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think we also have to acknowledge the era of video games we live in.

This doesn't even start to address the issue; why are we even given such pronounced tools and guidelines to use said tools when they have no outcome 99 times out of 100? It's a horrible viewpoint to have and to assign as the reason this happens, it does nothing to even remotely offer constructive criticism, it ignores the hundreds and thousands of cumulative hours that players spend doing the testing and record-taking of the issues they then go and report - just to see them ignored. As has been mentioned above, if they were to use something closer to the Minecraft Bug Tracker then I think they would have far less of an issue with duplicated threads, incomplete info, lack of visible response or action. DE was and is touted as a standout among the corporate jungle that is live service games and games as a whole - their inaction and ignoring of overwhelmingly opposite feedback to what we get in the end is tarnishing that reputation more and more. As I said before, some of us have spent years immersed in reports of these issues as well as taking considerable time to ensure what is reported is everything that could be needed, usually with extra points that might potentially be relevant.

Five years ago I had the mindset of wanting the game to be the best it can be, I still have that mindset now. Even while I performed my duties as a Guide of the Lotus I kept this same mindset and appreciated the work that ended up being put into the game - especially so as I got to see behind more closed doors than the vast majority. I love DE's creation more than any other game I've ever played, there is no other game I've sunk this many thousands of hours into purely for the love of it and the love of the community that has grown around it. They've cultivated a thriving family of "registered losers" who all play for a massive variety of reasons, with only a very small percentage actively behaving in ways that could be considered unbecoming.

26 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

It doesn't make DE a lot of money to rework things or fix bugs or revisit old gameplay systems they moved to the "maybe when we have time someday" pile.

Actively ignoring these things doesn't make them money either - refer to threads such as the Nidus Prime Accessories feedback thread detailing the "small issue" of the entire Voidrig's head rotating incorrectly (when using Gravemines or Storm Shroud) with anything but the default helmet. Not visibly working on this makes more people unhappy than otherwise because the frustration is cumulative. Encountering bug after bug after bug, only to find out it's been documented and reported years ago adds to this far more than the same but with acknowledgement of the bug's existence at a bare minimum. Refer to the Yareli changes ignoring the majority of feedback, or the fact that Holokeys got a measly drop amount increase when the rates are the source of frustration - also vast majority of the feedback ignored. The entire action of ignoring the players, feedback and reports that they themselves have asked us to do does nothing but reinforce the growing belief that they simply do not listen - instead of the actual situation which is more along the lines of "they are focused elsewhere and might look at them later". The fact they'll definitely have to spend weeks on weeks bugfixing or tweaking after the next content update does not give me confidence that this situation will improve because they do not say otherwise; it's left up to the community's perception and speculation far too often.

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Just for fun I should replay The War Within snowy mountain scene, were you can get completely stuck at the start of the mission due to bug. I was locked out of game in that mission loop for entire week, until in some dusty corner of the forums I found the solution. If I'll still be able to reproduce it, then just... Warframe has great parts as a game but that moment (stuck in a KEY quest with no solution or response from devs) made me drop my Ayatans.

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Except they do take feedback and interact with the community? The only thing they've done less of is direct interaction yet you still see them doing more of that than anyone similarly sized game. Just the existence of the devstreams gives them more interaction than most other companies which would just have their PR team do all the interacting and not the people building the product.

 

Quoting myself from a different thread regarding the feedback claims:

On 2021-09-10 at 4:30 AM, trst said:

And just for those who pretend that DE "never" takes feedback just looking at 30.7 alone we got the Ghoul Saw (only exists because players asked for it), more Yareli buffs (DE has no obligation to change her as she'll sell on aesthetics alone), Holokey acquisition buffs (it's not the exact change players asked for but it's still an improvement to a systems players complained about), Ambassador parts relocated (players complained about this since it released), and a number of grind reductions like Kuva Lich Thralls and Harrow (regular complaints).

And that was just one patch. You see the same thing in nearly every single patch that has changes to existing content. On top of that almost every major system revision and rework has been explicitly because players requested it otherwise we would still have things like release liches, original Ember/Vauban/Excalibur, damage 1.0, alerts, etc. They take feedback and it drives changes made to the game, this is a fact.

Also since 30.7 (one week ago) we've now also seen the addition of being able to sell Lich/Sister weapons and Hounds from the foundry (a feature players have explicitly asked for) and the recent announcement of the Ghoul Saw stance getting a buff (even if players disagree with buffing it over the saw's stats the stance getting a buff was explicitly asked for by others).

 

The actual issue you're looking at is that they don't address issues fast enough and the need for new content (yes it is a need for the health of the game) is limiting their ability to fix older content. Yet there is only so much time in the day and every patch still sees a dozen or so bug fixes as is.

Do they need a better system for addressing longstanding issues and bugs? Yes. Does their current inability to keep on top of these issues mean they don't take feedback? I honestly wonder how anyone could imagine such a conclusion.

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  • iPathos changed the title to DE, you need to start actually acknowledging input from your community. We love this game, but it's looking more and more like you don't.
  • iPathos changed the title to DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated

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