Ghoulsaw: Butcher’s Revelry Changes.

[DrivaMain]

Damage is not the problem. It's the base animation speed of the stance. It's ridiculous that you need at least 2.0 Speed to get good responsiveness.

[tomwork27]

the damage was never the problem, the moveset was

people don't want to use a chainsaw like a sword

[(PSN)RAY_is_GOD]

There's got to be a lumberjack in Canada that explain how saws work

[Jedi_pup]

i want to have toggles on combos to just turn them off. its to easy to slide across the room into a hole and i rather just disable it, to just not do it anymore. its also a ton of tappin e and its a bit too much finger gymnastics, idk how you fix that. considering also you nerfed melee, you have to hit them more, with just melee. also why not have an innate speed holster to it ,like 10%. 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Someone on the forums said it best, that saws should function similarly to beam weapons through continuous damage. It makes sense, most melee weapons rely on swiping & swinging, the saw is a more complex beast. A spinning blade rotating at a fast speed cuts through enemies & materials in a not so clean manner, gritty manner. Functionally, the Ghoulsaw is the biggest disappointment in a low while, and the recent attack speed nerf adds onto this problem. Something needs to change.

[Restartmind111]

Let us ride it for as much as we want please. If you do this, it might be like a k-drive but actually good.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Base animation speed is fine, it should feel clunky as it's a bulky weapon. The damage buffs are appreciated.

[SECURATYYY]

On 2021-09-15 at 5:15 PM, Twinbellows said:

Thanks for the buffs, they are appreciated. But please, just let us ride it as much time as we want :(

PLEASE

 

Can we make the standing E combo just hold the saw up and not move? Switch the forward E with the standing E.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Good-sounding changes. I felt it was fine before, and am not hung up on the inability to ride it constantly, but I'm definitely curious to try it out now (seriously community, it's a huge slow weapon, it's not going to out-perform a pair of dual swords on speed and grace)

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I'll also parrot swapping forward and neutral. With the ability to hold for the new neutral and rip and ride. 

Neutral does 3 instances of damage per second when touching enemies. This results in a quick ramp up on a co build or combo counter. 

Otherwise a good start.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

(seriously community, it's a huge slow weapon, it's not going to out-perform a pair of dual swords on speed and grace)

Meanwhile Rending Crane manages to be fast and "graceful" despite being for heavy blades.

[(NSW)Greybones]

On 2021-09-16 at 1:47 AM, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Meanwhile Rending Crane manages to be fast and "graceful" despite being for heavy blades.

Ah yeah. I forgot heavy blades are like the ghoul saw. So they should be treated the same

 

On 2021-09-16 at 1:47 AM, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Meanwhile Rending Crane manages to be fast and "graceful" despite being for heavy blades.

My previous post had sarcasm in it. There's few things that will trigger me so much as some gamers talking about the subjective nature of animations. I'm sorry it's not as effective at sweeping the room clean as your favourite weapons, but it feels like a giant machine buzzsaw that has heft and makes death extremely unpleasant for whatever you're hitting

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

My previous post had sarcasm in it. There's few things that will trigger me so much as some gamers talking about the subjective nature of animations. I'm sorry it's not as effective at sweeping the room clean as your favourite weapons, but it feels like a giant machine buzzsaw that has heft and makes death extremely unpleasant for whatever you're hitting

Are you triggered by yourself? Given that you're talking about the subjective nature of animations and all.

Who said anything about effective at sweeping the room?
I made a statement that just because a weapon has "heft" (unless you wanna say that heavy blades don't) does not exclude it from being fast and graceful in Warframe.
My giant sword I swing around gracefully and quickly also feels like it makes death extremely unpleasant for whatever I'm hitting.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Are you triggered by yourself? Given that you're talking about the subjective nature of animations and all.

Who said anything about effective at sweeping the room?
I made a statement that just because a weapon has "heft" (unless you wanna say that heavy blades don't) does not exclude it from being fast and graceful in Warframe.
My giant sword I swing around gracefully and quickly also feels like it makes death extremely unpleasant for whatever I'm hitting.

More disgusted by myself because I'm engaging in it, but my animation studies and knowledge will not take this lying down.

You are expecting a heavy blade and a chunk of machinery to feel the same?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

So funny thing.

 

Beside the misspelling of the combo name, they also have the old multiplier incorrect.
Similar case for Reciprocator.

[(PSN)Tandoori_Goblin]

Not nearly enough of a buff. Base stats like speed and damage need a buff.

Animations where you hold out/ride the saw need to hit more times, animations in generally need to give more control. Superfluous animations like the 2nd hit after a slam etc where you are rooted in place need a trim/speed up.

This weapon has been teased for years, it needs some love and it could be a cool & fun weapon type and not a community joke on DE laziness.

[Zahnny]

I recommend making the "ride" part of the weapon, the Heavy Attack, that should hopefully allow for riding it longer, while also being more rewarding when using it against enemies with the right builds.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

More disgusted by myself because I'm engaging in it, but my animation studies and knowledge will not take this lying down.

You are expecting a heavy blade and a chunk of machinery to feel the same?

Given that some of the animations seem to be directly take from/extremely similar to Heavy Blade combos, yea, I'd expect some similarity in handling.
I mean, have you seen Dominion Skin Zenistar? Thing's freaking massive.
But that's beside the point. The point was not that Assault Saws have the exact same handling as Heavy Blades, but that we have huge weapons that can still be fast and graceful.
But if you wanna take the route of how things "should" feel, shouldn't the Assault Saw stance combos hit multiple times given that we're swinging an active saw blade?

[(NSW)Greybones]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Given that some of the animations seem to be directly take from/extremely similar to Heavy Blade combos, yea, I'd expect some similarity in handling.
I mean, have you seen Dominion Skin Zenistar? Thing's freaking massive.
But that's beside the point. The point was not that Assault Saws have the exact same handling as Heavy Blades, but that we have huge weapons that can still be fast and graceful.
But if you wanna take the route of how things "should" feel, shouldn't the Assault Saw stance combos hit multiple times given that we're swinging an active saw blade?

🤔 I have thought it could stand to hit multiple times, it's true. It's an active saw, like you say. It's not a huge dealbreaker for me though, because with the swing it basically only would hit about as much as once (not a lot of time for the teeth to dig in). I do love the heavy attack though, where we sort of shove the saw into a hardened target and rev it up. That one hits multiple times with good reason

[Zahnny]

Why are so many people against being able to ride it like a vehicle though?

I thought the excuse people always give against percieved powercreep was "It's meant to be fun, not good."

If that's the case, then I'd take a ridable weapon over decent damage. Melee weapons all already feel the same. So why is breaking out of that such a gospel sin?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I do love the heavy attack though, where we sort of shove the saw into a hardened target and rev it up.

Yet another stolen combo.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/9/9b/AstralTwilightCombo3.gif

Glaives just do it faster and stronger.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Yet another stolen combo.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/9/9b/AstralTwilightCombo3.gif

Glaives just do it faster and stronger.

That... looks very different from an animation standpoint

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

That... looks very different from an animation standpoint

Talking about the first "uppercut" of the glaive combo. Assualt Saw heavy is the first two hits of that, just slowed down.

[(NSW)Greybones]

20 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Talking about the first "uppercut" of the glaive combo. Assualt Saw heavy is the first two hits of that, just slowed down.

Oh christ... 🙄 Alright, yes, it's exactly the same animation. You pointed this out to an animator and won. The Assault Saw's heavy attack is the first two hits of that, just slowed down. I've been knocked out of this topic because this discussion's already getting long enough

[garbenzine]

The combos are interesting and all, but the only thing I want or expected from it is "hold melee for bzzzzzzzz while you run around".  The foward+melee spam is close, but should really be changed to a hold.  Even if that's not on the table, something that really needs adjusting is to make it so you can change your camera view and facing direction as normal.  Right now if you try to turn or juke while spamming Ghoul Rush, it stops you cold and you do a swipe which just kills the mood.