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Ghoulsaw: Butcher’s Revelry Changes.


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For the stance, can you please separate the "smash" portion of the saw ride (forward guard attack I believe) so we can ride the saw without having to wait for the smash animation to finish every time? The ride part is very fun, but the smash part makes it unruly. (It'd still be balanced since the saw ride itself doesn't do much damage and is hard to actually hit with).

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Thanks for the buff!However, I think most of the reason why this weapon is not appreciated by players is due to the difficulty of using the stance movement (as is the case with some other stances). The weapon's status is mediocre, but not too weak.

Edited by Kuzuri_Zasa
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Please remove the random slam after you use the gap-closer.

I understand it is something to prevent players from just using the ghoulsaw as a means of transportation, but the way it is now interrupts the flow of melee combat while the purpose of a gap closer is to keep the flow going. In the ghoulsaw's current state, you have to wait for a slow slam attack to happen after the gap is already closed before you can start another attack chain whereas with other weapons you can start an attack chain right after you close the gap.

Edited by Teletric
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i think there's two main things people want:

  • to be able to hold it in front of them indefinitely and grind away at whatever is unfortunate enough to be close enough, much like Panthera
  • to be able to drive it like a Vehicle, indefinitely, cuz why not

i have an additional suggestion for driving it - if driving through Enemies would drag them with you underneath the Saw and constantly grind them as you drive around, that would be excellent. yeah, make it work kinda like Tidal Surge and pull Enemies with you, but also have it pull them towards the center so that they can get hit by the spinning blade.

 

i think there's a way to have both of these...
say, if Holding Melee to do a 'Charge Attack' would go into driving mode as long as you hold down that Charge.
and if Holding Melee to so a Charge while holding Block/Aim, would instead hold it out in front of you and grind in front of you.

Edited by taiiat
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It's a little ironic that the little old Panthera's alt-fire is better at being a chain-saw than a dedicated chain-saw type of melee. I'm also disappointed that the only buffs so far are to the stance, rather than buffing the weapon itself. (which also means not gaining any of those buffs if you were to go stanceless)

This thing is salvageable, but it needs to attack less like a "semi-auto" weapon and more like a constant "held" weapon (i.e. the Panthera alt-fire) and it needs more QoL and "fun" buffs to it like less animations that lock you in place, and more control over when you jump off the ride animation (i.e. make it constant, as everyone keeps mentioning.) It does not need to be an all-powerful meta weapon, but it needs to be fun and fluid enough to keep using

Edited by pakakupakaku
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11 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

I would like if there was a press-and-hold function so that I could keep riding the saw as long as I want.

1 minute ago, taiiat said:
  • to be able to drive it like a Vehicle, indefinitely, cuz why not

The ability to increase how far you can ride it by using +range mods is good enough. It's a melee weapon, not a means of transport, after all. The fact that we're even able to ride it in the first place is amazing.

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1 minute ago, Teletric said:

The ability to increase how far you can ride it by using +range mods is good enough. It's a melee weapon, not a means of transport, after all. The fact that we're even able to ride it in the first place is amazing.

It doesn't need to cover infinite distance, but it needs to give us more control over when we jump off of it. It's too easy to under and over-shoot when it's a forced distance, and it would feel better if we could jump off early, and have it tell us somehow when we're about to hit that max distance so we can get ready to continue attacking on foot.

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2 hours ago, slashcash29 said:

I'm willing to bet that the main reason that the ghoul saw is so bad because it's the first weapon in a new archetype. The next assault saw will be leaps and bounds better.

Ninkondi wasn't crap when it launched and neither was Mios. There's no reason a new archetype needs to fail at simple math problems. Weapons in Warframe are a math puzzle. They aren't customizable like a Warframe or vehicle. They are designed to kill and it's really easy to figure out the potential of a weapon by doing some math. DE had time to do napkin math on a Multishot mod for Hek, so they should have no problem doing the same for the Ghoulsaw.

The consistent track record of missing the mark on the first go with plenty of historical feedback to reference before the launch of anything is quite astounding.

Edited by Voltage
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To people saying the weapon needs a buff, It really doesn't. The stance really was that bad. 

The first weapon in a class shouldnt be over powered af given how every follow up after needs to one up that weapon in some way. 

But the stance itself had such low average damage multipliers given for how slow the stance is. For perspective Gaia's tragedy also works on slow but punishing combos, the last hit on its neutral combo has an 800% damage multiplier, yeah it takes awhile to get there relatively but that's the thing it pays off. 

I still do think that butchers revelry needs to have more "multiple" hits per button press with lower damage multipliers, like votive onslaught. Given how we are literally using a rotating saw. It doesn't "feel" right as is.

 

 

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For a circular saw, it's not doing the one unique thing I was expecting it to: to hit flesh and rip into it until I stop pressing the button (or run out of fuel / energy).

When you announced we were able to ride it, I assumed (yeah, yeah) that meant as if it were a vehicle (i.e. until I stop pressing a button, run out of fuel / energy, or hit an obstacle), maybe slightly unstable so we'd be in for a wild ride.

It doesn't have to be on-par for damage for me, so these buffs are meaningless. Its role could have been like the chainsaw in DOOM: perhaps not the most efficient weapon, but oh so much fun.

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While people mentioned the clunky movement and slow animations, I think the main issue is the hitbox on that thing. Sometimes I swing it and it doesn't seem to register contact... Even when I use the back + block stance surrounded by enemies close it me, only some of them get hit...

 

I'm fine with slow speed and even the damage, but the practicality of the animations and hitbox is off.

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3 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

how bout no? it is weapon, not  a vehicle

So far the ride is pretty much the only thing keeping the ghoul saw going though, so if they won't address the issue of the extremely slow attacks among other issues, may as well make it a fun weapon instead where you can just zoom across the plains of eidolon on a badass chainsaw.

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3 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

Everything is great, cool and all, but still you can't run and attack effectively at the same time, it's still a very stationary stance with a very short range, it's still way too slow (I understand the "weight" of this weapon, but even the archmelee is waving faster).

The second thing is that miserable ride... you couldn't make it rideable as long as we hold a specific key combination? Alternatively, extend the maximum distance three times.

Not exactly the most sound point to make by using archmelee in comparison. Since those are used in space which has no gravity and so you wouldn't experience any weight. :clem:

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1 hour ago, taiiat said:

say, if Holding Melee to do a 'Charge Attack' would go into driving mode as long as you hold down that Charge.

Great idea, except this would be miserable for people who use controllers with the default keybinds, since that would mean holding in the right stick. That gets extremely uncomfortable fast, and I'd rather it be a toggle or something. Maybe make it the first melee weapon with an "alternate fire"?

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17 minutes ago, Flannoit said:

Great idea, except this would be miserable for people who use controllers with the default keybinds, since that would mean holding in the right stick. That gets extremely uncomfortable fast, and I'd rather it be a toggle or something. Maybe make it the first melee weapon with an "alternate fire"?

i don't think a game should build everything around the default Keybinds. you can change them for a reason. if the default is bad (i'd argue in most games the defaults are bad to some degree), that's something to be fixed over there, not to stifle what the game can do.

1 hour ago, Teletric said:

It's a melee weapon, not a means of transport

it's also really the only thing unique about it and the only reason to actually use it currently. the other would be the only somewhat functional ability to indefinitely grind on an Enemy.
but using it as an actual Melee Weapon? not worth it, and nothing unique about that.

Edited by taiiat
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It's a matter of fact, that they can't release stuff in a way, that pleases everyone in the community. Never.
When a new release is announced, everyone has different expectations. Like with Yareli release for example.. I thought to myself : nice! A frame that owns a K-drive and I can do the races or anything else K-drive related with it.. better and faster. She could have gotten a nice niche to perfectly fit in.. but NOPE.

Same thing with new weapon releases.. they're either overpowered or underwhelming. But everyone is expecting them to be super broken.. or to be able to break them with enough effort ;)

Nobody sticking to the game more than 4 weeks is probably still in need of a decent weapon. The Ghoulsaw could have been a weapon with nice features to play around with and have some fun. All you guys noticed until now, that this is not going to happen.. even after all the announcements made to buff it, you're still not pleased and it'll probably need 1-2 more.. like Yareli. And the community is still not happy about her xD

Maybe it would be best, to let the team figure out some balancing about new war stuff, thats about to come, instead of complaining about things, that everybody knows is just some MR fodder..

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2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i don't think a game should build everything around the default Keybinds. you can change them for a reason. if the default is bad (i'd argue in most games the defaults are bad to some degree), that's something to be fixed over there, not to stifle what the game can do.

Default keybinds are the default for a reason... And controllers don't really have any "alternatives" without swapping mapping around. WF is one of the few games where default for controllers is actually good. (imo at least)

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1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

I would like if there was a press-and-hold function so that I could keep riding the saw as long as I want.

I think that would be a decent idea if it were implemented! Almost makes me picture doing part of a K-Drive race with it (Perhaps Saw races in the PoE?).

 

In any case, it reminded me of this too;

 

That being said, pertaining to the melee aspects specifically I also think it should have multiple hits in succession while the blades are contacting an enemy. No matter how fast / slow you swing the weapon, since the engine is revved up I don't see why it wouldn't be able to deal multiple (Slightly smaller) amounts of damage per tick that add up to either the same total damage it does now (As noted earlier in this thread), or slightly more if all the hits occur during a combo.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, during the most recent Devstream with Rhino showcasing the Ghoulsaw in action, I don't believe it was ever mentioned that you'd have to repeatedly tap the melee button to continue revving up the engine when moving forward.

  • I'm not sure why it isn't simply a hold action while moving forward instead, one reason being that it would likely help reduce wear & tear on the controller / mouse / keyboard's buttons, which is always a good thing.

 

Hopefully things are going well with The New War in the meantime :)

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5 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

This... does absolutely nothing to help. The damage was never the problem, it's the horrifically clunky moveset. You talk about "full gamut of moves", but I don't want to use a single one because they're too impractical. And you've basically guaranteed that every single other weapon in its class will be equally worthless from the start.

It's just like the holokey mess all over again. You're completely ignoring the actual problem.

Well said mate.. saved me typing :) 

 

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While I agree with many others here in regards to clunk/speed, I wanna a touch something else in regards to melee attacks:

Can the finishers (frontal and rear) PLEASE knock down the target afterwards? It looks so silly to see an enemy stand up immediately after being knocked down by those gruesome finishers.

Note that this also applies to more than just Assault Saws - this goes for most of the melee weapons in the game, moreso with the rear/stealth finishers.

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