With pay 30 day boosters, mission rewards feel miserly.

[UilliamNebel]

Way I look at it, boosters are like a grocery cart subscription model, pay as I want things at a premium.

That said, looking at the rewards paid out like affinity and credits, and more so pay out of credits from item salvage, I have to say they are out right miserly. Going back over my spreadsheet data collected over time playing, I'm actually on curve to where 30 day boosters are falling below a point of value for me. What they actually do to help me make best use of my play time is falling off, hard, because a lot of other things in game rewards wise are just so miserly. Only things you actually do get in abundance, are usually pretty poor paying out as a general rule, pretty much more or less space dirt.

The fact that literally, a few hundred mods, sold for credits is a tenth of what you'd get for equal number of Nightwave tokens at 5k each is pretty discouraging. Then there is the poor trade market state. Things folks will pay plat for, alright enough maybe. Everything else is so devalued no one even trades in it. I get it, faucet sink fears of an in game economy, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. This seems to more so just be neglect, and unappreciation for players time, and products sold for real world money value.

[Leqesai]

First of all, the 'value' in something like a 30 day booster is entirely subjective. How you're using them is not consistent with how everyone else uses them nor is it consistent with how everyone else EXPECTS to use them. If you don't see value in buying a 30 day booster then... don't buy one.

Second, what is your native language? It seems like English may not be your native tongue so some of what you're trying to say may not be coming through how you intend it. Your post is incredibly difficult to read as a native English speaker.

[UilliamNebel]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

First of all, the 'value' in something like a 30 day booster is entirely subjective. How you're using them is not consistent with how everyone else uses them nor is it consistent with how everyone else EXPECTS to use them. If you don't see value in buying a 30 day booster then... don't buy one.

Yes, thank you for that explanation of subjective versus intrinsic value. Sort of why I put "I'm actually on curve to where 30 day boosters are falling below a point of value for me. What they actually do to help me make best use of my play time is falling off, hard, because a lot of other things in game rewards wise are just so miserly. " in my OP. Now, call me crazy, but it is a FEEDBACK part of the forum, and we are all individuals, with individual preferences and individual values, that we express from our own subjectivity. So why you feel the need to make a point on someone, giving feedback, and try to put it in the context of being 'feedback done right' I cannot see the point of.

As for the mention of my vernacular. I think you should consider how grossly offensive that was. No really, that was a sophist's phrasing to try and insinuate and call into question cognitive ability. The kind of thing a failure of a writer with an English major, turned English teacher does to high school kids to try and rattle their student's confidence and make themselves feel smarter for not being where they think they should in life. No really, be better, don't be that sort of ad hominem making intellectually dishonest participant.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

30 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

Yes, thank you for that explanation of subjective versus intrinsic value. Sort of why I put "I'm actually on curve to where 30 day boosters are falling below a point of value for me. What they actually do to help me make best use of my play time is falling off, hard, because a lot of other things in game rewards wise are just so miserly. " in my OP. Now, call me crazy, but it is a FEEDBACK part of the forum, and we are all individuals, with individual preferences and individual values, that we express from our own subjectivity. So why you feel the need to make a point on someone, giving feedback, and try to put it in the context of being 'feedback done right' I cannot see the point of.

I remember a time when I had to farm Index for credits to keep up with all my crafting, modding, and whatnot. Nowadays, I got all of that stuff done and I'm earning heaps from Sortie, lich/sister hunting, and Steel Path. Cred boosters are certainly not valuable to me anymore, but I still remember a time they were and I know that others are still in the same position. Voila, I'm suddenly starting to express myself from outside my own subjectivity. Crazy, huh? The boosters are there for those who "need"/want them, and that's good enough. Not all boosters need to be good for everyone all the time.
 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Second, what is your native language? It seems like English may not be your native tongue so some of what you're trying to say may not be coming through how you intend it. Your post is incredibly difficult to read as a native English speaker.

36 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

As for the mention of my vernacular. I think you should consider how grossly offensive that was. No really, that was a sophist's phrasing to try and insinuate and call into question cognitive ability. The kind of thing a failure of a writer with an English major, turned English teacher does to high school kids to try and rattle their student's confidence and make themselves feel smarter for not being where they think they should in life. No really, be better, don't be that sort of ad hominem making intellectually dishonest participant.

Leq merely pointed out that your post is hard to read and might not be coming through as intended, simultaneously wondered if it could have anything to do with English possibly being a non-Native language for you. The astute among us may notice that this is in fact not an insult, let alone an ad hominem. The latter is basically an insult tied to a undermining of the argument. Leq didn't say you're wrong about the boosters because your post is difficult to read, thus it's not an ad hominem. By the same token, that quote of your is not an ad hominem because although it's insulting and uncalled for, it doesn't say "and thus you're wrong about the booster stuff".

On the other hand, it lends credence to the spirit of what Leq said - choose your words more carefully and don't toss around terms you don't know the meaning of. It just risks ruining your arguments.

Signed: An actual non-native English speaker.
(PS: Claiming that I'm wrong about what an ad hominem is because I'm a non-native English speaker would be a prime example of an ad hominem.)

 

 

[Yamazuki]

49 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

I think you should consider how grossly offensive that was. 

Asking if English is a language you're familiar with on its own isn't offensive, unless you're really insecure about the fact you aren't familiar with it. They didn't question your intelligence, or anything of the sort, entirely based on your ability to communicate in English. If someone has little to no experience in listening/reading English spoken/written improperly it is difficult to understand what they're trying to say. Assuming what someone is trying to say could just lead to misunderstandings. Especially for a language like English where words, especially in todays world... have a bunch of meanings. I'm an American who learned English as a 5th language, and had a lot of communication issues due to frequent mispronunciations and really bad grammar due to English structure being very different to other languages. 

I tried understanding what you're trying to say, but a couple sentences honestly make no sense to me.

Your feedback has multiple very different types of complaints, and people are likely only going to focus on the one your title is highlighting.

The issue of boosters not feeling worth it isn't inherently tied to low rewards, and neither of those are directly related to the problem the overwhelming majority of items in the game sell for little to not plat, if at all.

To start with, things in the game generally have specific places you go to grind them. Credits for example, yes their general reward rate is abysmal, but when you need credits you go to specific missions that drop them in higher numbers. It isn't any different to how specific mods/warframes/weapons drop in specific missions.

As for trading items for plat, it just comes down to DE never actually designed Warframe based on trading really being a thing. Games that are designed without trading and just slap it on as an after thought all suffer from the issue of trading generally not being worth it unless you get very specific items. It's also no coincidence most of these games all make trading as inconvenient as possible and lock specific rewards behind content most people won't like in order to keep their value higher.

Some items though have little to no trade value due to instances like Nightwave pushing people to do things they normally wouldn't. The Drift mods from Lua at one point a few would sell for 30+ plat even though they were easy to get. Then comes Nightwave and the challenges to do 4 to the Lua Halls and the prices of those mods dropped due to a significant increase in supply. Any alerts that reward an item causes this issue to, Veiled Rivens are lower in price than in previous years due to the last couple years DE has been giving them out for free.

Also, "feedback" can be more than expressing you don't like something. You didn't really offer any alternatives to how you would like the problem be solved. If DE were to actually listen, it's possible they could make changes that only annoy you further, rather than improving.

[UilliamNebel]

46 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Asking if English is a language you're familiar with on its own isn't offensive, unless you're really insecure about the fact you aren't familiar with it.

Nah, it is. Also, it is elitist.

[UilliamNebel]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Not all boosters need to be good for everyone all the time.

If you are selling boosters, as a product, like DE is doing, no, that is like saying 'Sometimes my produce stand sells rotten apples, that is just what you get, it is the consumer's burden.' Not expecting McDonalds to be five star cuisine, but do expect it, especially with the market competition, to have a competitive product. And by my estimation, no, thirty day boosters are not, when looked at as being a substitute for a recurring subscription.

[xombob89]

I dunno, I always found boosters useful, but I mostly used them for farming credits at index or farming some rare resources. I believe void traces also get doubled with resource booster. So, I have to spend 50% less time farming the same mission. Time, which I can then use doing something else. 

But, I must admit that Ive sometimes wondered if its worth the platinum or not all things considered.

[Skaleek]

For someone with such a firm grasp of the English language I'm surprised "miserly" was the adjective you decided to commit to.

I will agree with you somewhat that most items in-game have little to no value, especially since the advent of the riven market, but why does that matter? The value is whatever it adds to your character. If you're playing WF and your goal is to increase your equity, you're setting yourself up to fail.

Also if you're looking for the booster that's worthwhile, it's typically the resource booster and nothing else. I've had over 200 million credits for years and I never cared to try and increase the amount. DE let's resources inflate and then just introduces a new one to make you step right back on that treadmill. Such is the nature of WF.

[UilliamNebel]

3 hours ago, Skaleek said:

For someone with such a firm grasp of the English language I'm surprised "miserly" was the adjective you decided to commit to.

Why? Looking at it's definition, and how it is used in this case, how did you come to that conclusion? If anything, it more so is saying you're not experienced with English as it is, a living language across regions and cultures, i.e. the sophistry and polemics of forum vanguard within a homogeneous and ostracizing base.

As for looking for the booster that is 'worthwhile', that is irrational. DE is selling boosters as a product, they've chose to try and commoditize the game this way. If they were a popsicle company, and chose to release a poop flavored popsicle, the fact they have a great grape flavor doesn't dismiss that they have one with poop flavor. Sure, you can choose not to buy the poop flavored one, but that will just be a sophist argument or in ignorance of business reality, bad products are a drain, always.

[T-Shark69]

I made back the 400p i used on Resource boosters in like 4 runs of Arbitrations. That's 4 hours of grind for 30 days of benefits. I dont feel like it was a bad investment.

[UilliamNebel]

20 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

I made back the 400p i used on Resource boosters in like 4 runs of Arbitrations. That's 4 hours of grind for 30 days of benefits. I dont feel like it was a bad investment.

Thats one way to evaluate it. Now what did you actually get, progression wise, in terms of affinity, focus, etc, etc, from that for the time spent? For me, I am not finding a value there for their cost in real world currency to platinum anymore. The ammount I spend, for the lessening of time, is no longer significant enough.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

You just personally don't know how to use them.

Profit taker.....index.....

Adaro...focus farming with Lua lenses....even hydron... 

[UilliamNebel]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You just personally don't know how to use them.

How? I am not expecting a vacuum to be a car here.

[T-Shark69]

35 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

Now what did you actually get, progression wise, in terms of affinity, focus, etc, etc,

Im pretty much done with progression. I went there for loot. The boosters also cut down farm time so I save time in that regard. The plat I get can also be used to outright buy items and skip the grind completely. Like the Ambassador for instance, or frames like Harrow and Equinox.

[Skaleek]

3 hours ago, UilliamNebel said:

Why? Looking at it's definition, and how it is used in this case, how did you come to that conclusion? If anything, it more so is saying you're not experienced with English as it is, a living language across regions and cultures, i.e. the sophistry and polemics of forum vanguard within a homogeneous and ostracizing base.

As for looking for the booster that is 'worthwhile', that is irrational. DE is selling boosters as a product, they've chose to try and commoditize the game this way. If they were a popsicle company, and chose to release a poop flavored popsicle, the fact they have a great grape flavor doesn't dismiss that they have one with poop flavor. Sure, you can choose not to buy the poop flavored one, but that will just be a sophist argument or in ignorance of business reality, bad products are a drain, always.

Bad products are a reality, always. Not to mention, just because YOU don't like poop flavoured popsicles, doesn't mean that 90% of the general population, as disgusting as it may seem to you, hate poop flavoured popsicles.

 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

9 hours ago, UilliamNebel said:

If you are selling boosters, as a product, like DE is doing, no, that is like saying 'Sometimes my produce stand sells rotten apples, that is just what you get, it is the consumer's burden.' Not expecting McDonalds to be five star cuisine, but do expect it, especially with the market competition, to have a competitive product. And by my estimation, no, thirty day boosters are not, when looked at as being a substitute for a recurring subscription.

That is a false equivalence, which is a fallacy, because it ignores the fact that the booster as a product appeals to a good number of other people. More appropriate would then be to compare the boosters to, say, a jar opener. For some, the jar opener might be useless while others would happily pay for one. Speaking of false equivalence, why do you look at boosters as a substitute for a recurring subscriptions? Just because it lasts for a month doesn't make it such a substitute, merely one of many products. Can you present an argument that isn't fallacious?

9 hours ago, UilliamNebel said:

10 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Asking if English is a language you're familiar with on its own isn't offensive, unless you're really insecure about the fact you aren't familiar with it.

Nah, it is. Also, it is elitist.

Nah, it isn't. Also, it ain't. Context matters.

[UilliamNebel]

4 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Bad products are a reality, always. Not to mention, just because YOU don't like poop flavoured popsicles, doesn't mean that 90% of the general population, as disgusting as it may seem to you, hate poop flavoured popsicles.

 

And there was the sophistry I expected.

[Skaleek]

4 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

And there was the sophistry I expected.

Hypocrisy abound. I can tell you really came here for a discussion. Go do profit taker and stop whining.

[UilliamNebel]

9 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Hypocrisy abound. I can tell you really came here for a discussion. Go do profit taker and stop whining.

But calling into question my command of English wasn't a subtile ad hominem to begin with... as it comes around to an ad hominem. You just made an argument to say a person couldn't rationally say a poop flavored popsicle would be a disasterous product, thats pretty much solid sophism.

[Skaleek]

55 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

But calling into question my command of English wasn't a subtile ad hominem to begin with... as it comes around to an ad hominem. You just made an argument to say a person couldn't rationally say a poop flavored popsicle would be a disasterous product, thats pretty much solid sophism.

The fact you cant see the idea behind the argument, which you made to begin with, speaks volumes to your capacity. The point is what you call a poop popsicle, I might call grape flavor, or is that too difficult to understand. You say that credit boosters are bad, but not everyone feels that way. To some, they are useful. Do you understand now? Or do i need to simplify it more? Subtle enough for you?

It's what you do with the credit booster that matters. Go run profit taker. You'll get credits. A lot.

[UilliamNebel]

44 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

The point is what you call a poop popsicle, I might call grape flavor, or is that too difficult to understand.

No. Understood perfectly. Just that it is sophistry is my point.

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, UilliamNebel said:

No. Understood perfectly. Just that it is sophistry is my point.

Hope you're getting what you're looking for from this exchange.

[UilliamNebel]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Hope you're getting what you're looking for from this exchange.

I am not sure what you mean by that given my grasp of the language.

[Lutesque]

13 hours ago, UilliamNebel said:

If anything, it more so is saying you're not experienced with English as it is, a living language across regions and cultures, i.e. the sophistry and polemics of forum vanguard within a homogeneous and ostracizing base

That may very well be true.... But I would argue it's more important to Communicate than to be precise with your Wording.... After all... That is why we invented language isn't it ? Or was it given to us by Aliens ? 😱

12 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

I made back the 400p i used on Resource boosters in like 4 runs of Arbitrations. That's 4 hours of grind for 30 days of benefits. I dont feel like it was a bad investment.

Yeah but.... What did you do with the Remaining 26 Days.... Did you keep Grinding Arbitrations to get Maximum Value out of your Booster or did you take it easy for the rest of the month ?

10 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Bad products are a reality, always. Not to mention, just because YOU don't like poop flavoured popsicles, doesn't mean that 90% of the general population, as disgusting as it may seem to you, hate poop flavoured popsicles.

 

Although technically it's wrong for me to disagree here.... I feel like I have to anyways... I can not allow such a flavour to exist... 😱

9 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Can you present an argument that isn't fallacious?

Why does this sound Dirty for some reason ? 🤔