Why the drop pools so unrewarding

[Aldain]

9 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

some that go beyond useless filler to ""REALLY?!"

...Like 300 endo or 5000 credits?

Even for new players that is chump change.

[Tesseract7777]

16 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Like 300 endo or 5000 credits?

Even for new players that is chump change.

That's why I say an audit could be useful, but as players I think we need to focus on specific examples when it comes to drop tables or grind.

Generalizing about how grindy the game is when its a grind game is just buzzing in the devs ears. It's like the box fan I put on at night so I can sleep. 

I like the ops last specific example where he is talking about the value of vitality versus other extremely common rewards.

We gotta be really specific. 

You don't get DE to fix things by going "ephemera's are too faint", you get them to fix things by going "the verv ephemera is showing to torso rings too faintly on pc". I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think far too many people think generalizing about a problem in a *@##$y way in GD is enough, and then start to get frustrated and angry when their issue isn't fixed within 48 hours. 

Telling DE the drop tables are unrewarding is like... if it gets a ton of likes maybe they'll look at it eventually when they finally have time to audit everything.

If you get their attention pointing out something specific like Ash or Gyromag, they are at least slightly more attention to notice it in the short term and at least think about starting to find a solution at some point. 

Like... don't get me wrong Ash is still in a bad place, but they recently tried to make the Harrow grind a little less crazy, and that happened after a lot of people made very specific threads about Harrow grind being an issue and why, and I think they will do something for Ash about similar reasons. But they make those moves because people are specific, the op is WAY too general. What is DE really to take from this? A thread from this quickly becomes just another contentious discussion among players, but devs need specific things to fix. 

[Aldain]

16 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

but they recently tried to make the Harrow grind a little less crazy, and that happened after a lot of people made very specific threads about Harrow grind being an issue and why

Honestly I'm kind of impressed that DE put them on Kuva Survival at all.

And not at 5%...which is a number they've been utterly abusing to an absurd degree lately, especially on C rotations.

As for "Being more specific" I'd personally start by removing redundant Credit drops (some tables have 3-4 of the same 3000 credit drop and the same for Endo) and common mods like Vitality outright, at least the Uncommon mods on B+ rotations can help new players, but nobody needs a 300th copy of Trick Mag.

I'd also readjust the Credit drops across tiers, 3000 at most tier 3's are just...laughable, especially with how much Railjack missions will start vomiting at people, I made a little over a million credits just farming Sevagoth and a Athodai during a Credit weekend.

Even mini-universal standing medallions would be a decent addition, like 100 standing per in a bundle of 1-3 depending on the tier. That's part of the big issue Warframe's missions have, there's no real ubiquitous items that are in the reward pools that make time spent not time wasted.

[(PSN)Unstar]

11 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

It's not hyperbole, and it is a legitimate concern.

These things aren't mutually exclusive.

And yes, it is hyperbole, unless you honestly think literally the only rewarding loot table in the entire game is Arbitration.  Which I suppose is subjective, but that's one hell of a bonkers claim.

[Invisibleaxeman]

The reward table system is a slot machine, and those particular rewards are what is known as booby prizes.

[Zimzala]

"Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"

"I played X long so I 'deserve' Y reward."

I say Poppycock.

All these posters blaming DE for being greedy when they then post things like this.

This is just pure player impatience and greed, over virtual items in a video game of all things.

If the game is not 'rewarding' enough for you, move to one that is.

If you want to take the subjective FOMO attitude that you have to have everything in the game, that's on the player, especially if you come into the game with the attitude that it 'should take thins long', when one did not write the game, etc.

[XaoGarrent]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

These things aren't mutually exclusive.

And yes, it is hyperbole, unless you honestly think literally the only rewarding loot table in the entire game is Arbitration.  Which I suppose is subjective, but that's one hell of a bonkers claim.

You're doing the whole thing where you take your opposition's argument hyper literally, in order to dismiss it outright. That, if anything, is the closest thing to actual hyperbole here. Try being intellectually honest and actually addressing an argument properly for a change. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

26 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

You're doing the whole thing where you take your opposition's argument hyper literally, in order to dismiss it outright. That, if anything, is the closest thing to actual hyperbole here. Try being intellectually honest and actually addressing an argument properly for a change. 

You sure just put a whole lot of words in my mouth.  I commented on the hyperbole and nothing else.  Please take my original reply literally.

[XaoGarrent]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

You sure just put a whole lot of words in my mouth.  I commented on the hyperbole and nothing else.  Please take my original reply literally.

I put no words in your mouth. If you don't like your argument being critiqued, don't make it.

[(PSN)Unstar]

23 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

I put no words in your mouth. If you don't like your argument being critiqued, don't make it.

OP said there was exactly one rewarding drop pool, I said that was hyperbole.  Feel free to critique that if you want to, because you have yet to do so.

If your next reply isn't in good faith, I will simply wish you well.

[XaoGarrent]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

OP said there was exactly one rewarding drop pool, I said that was hyperbole.  Feel free to critique that if you want to, because you have yet to do so.

If your next reply isn't in good faith, I will simply wish you well.

You're the one arguing in bad faith. You're doing exactly what I said you were doing, again.

You can forfeit this argument if you wish, it's probably the best idea for you at this point since you can't seem to address his overarching point with any kind of fairness.

[ReddyDisco]

3 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I say Poppycock.

Dunno why i pictured Mr.Bean saying this and snickered 

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 minute ago, XaoGarrent said:

You're the one arguing in bad faith. You're doing exactly what I said you were doing, again.

You can forfeit this argument if you wish, it's probably the best idea for you at this point since you can't seem to address his overarching point with any kind of fairness.

I wish you well.

[XaoGarrent]

Just now, (PSN)Unstar said:

I wish you well.

I hope one day you learn to address people's arguments fairly, and heed valid points. :)

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

You're doing the whole thing where you take your opposition's argument hyper literally, in order to dismiss it outright. That, if anything, is the closest thing to actual hyperbole here. Try being intellectually honest and actually addressing an argument properly for a change. 

Oh... That's what Hyperbole means ? 

I thought it was some type of Super Container (Hyper-Bowl)... 🤣... I know it's pronounced "High-Purr-Billy" but Hyper-Bowl jives with my aesthetic alil better I think 😝

 

[(PSN)Unstar]

43 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Oh... That's what Hyperbole means ? 

Haha, I can't tell to what extent you're goofing but "hyperbole" basically just means "exaggeration". :)

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

The worst of it all, that's all I'm gonna see from now on when someone says hyperbole 😂 hyper-bowl :D 

Better than Hyper-Bowel though....

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-16 at 2:23 PM, Jarriaga said:

No.

The fact DE decided to leave Holokey drop tables unchanged despite a month of everyone telling them the problem was not the amount per se is a sign they have engagement metrics that take priority over fairness. This results in polluted drop tables. 

Going further back, I'm rather amazed you think the Arbitration's drop table is rewarding. Nearly everyone hated the fact DE decided to pollute it further while deprecating the value of their own Arbitrations store with the Arbitrations revisited update:

Years later, I'm still very pissed at DE for those decisions. It's mostly the reason why I don't do Arbitrations anymore.

arbitrations are more rewarding than most other drop pools at least.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-16 at 3:08 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Im pretty sure it is

Since look what happened to Arcane Grace
I remember when 1 piece was worth around 200-300 plat while now its 50

There are many different things we could get as bounty reward but nothing would prevent us from not giving a F*** after we get enough of it

And unless im missing the point idea in warframe is to make constant progress and not like "ow i farmed THIS whole day now i wont need to bother with it for a year"
Trust me i wish to get other stuff or in higher quantity as rewards just like any player who value his time and effort

But at the same time i perfectly understand why we have F2P game and why drop tables look like they look

But if you still think i pulled straw man argument then please by all means i wish to hear what kind of change to rewards you would propose?
Just keep in mind this is free to play game with well business model you most likely understand + some of play like 2 hours per day while others 8 per day while some 4 per week

Just dont forget to make rewards fair for everyone GL ;)

My point is instead of putting one of the most dirt common mods in the kuva survivals drop pool put something that actual makes it feel like there was a point to going there life strike or quickening would be enough but: vitality, redirection, etc. is just plain insulting.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-17 at 9:30 AM, (PSN)Unstar said:

These things aren't mutually exclusive.

And yes, it is hyperbole, unless you honestly think literally the only rewarding loot table in the entire game is Arbitration.  Which I suppose is subjective, but that's one hell of a bonkers claim.

Isolation vaults are rewarding, and some other things, but most drop pools in this game have too much junk in it to be considered rewarding and almost everyone in this forum has missed the point I'm trying to make. rotation rewards should not be items that drop like rain from enemie. like rain.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-16 at 1:24 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Lets put a little bit logic into your question

When i need to waste control modules on something i really dont care how much and for what it is just because i dont need them for anything and if i would i could just go farm them

But other side of the story is imagine NOT getting control modules from bounties lets say WE ALL are getting primed mods from bounties like left and right
Could you fatom how cheap primed mods would become? Like ppl giving them away for free like we now give vitality for free if someone asks for it on chat

And because we are getting primed mods and not control modules imagine how many players would need to go actually farm them to craft some crap

That is same case as for sortie rewards
There wont be any good rewards from repeatable activities because EVERYONE will fast get to the point where they will swim in that rewards

Thats why only logical option is to have resources as rewards since you are populating bounty squads or sortie squads instead of sitting on 1 node and farming that resources u need so much


If you care to expand the idea go check how much legendary fusion core sells for in warframe market
Now imagine each player get 1 core per week and try to guess what would be price of it then
Id bet MAYBE 5 plat AT BEST (since amount of mods on which you would even bother to waste it is so limited)

So in the end lets be happy with what we have
Because well lets face it we all know how King Midas ended up
 

control modules should not be the gold drop in a bounty. there is a lot of middle ground that could made but isn't that is the whole point of this forum.

[ZeroX4]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

My point is instead of putting one of the most dirt common mods in the kuva survivals drop pool put something that actual makes it feel like there was a point to going there life strike or quickening would be enough but: vitality, redirection, etc. is just plain insulting.

And my point was
Just think how many life strikes or quickening mods u would need to get to miss vitality?
How many before you come back here with same problem saying it should be something else than life strike and quickening?

Because trust me i get your idea and it sounds cool on paper but eventually everything becomes junk once you have enough of it

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-16 at 1:27 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

Because without filler you'd be done really fast, get bored and go play another game. 

Psychologically you THINK you want all useless filler removed from the drop table. 

Subconsciously, it makes the good loot feel more rewarding, pads out your loot over time with common rewards in bulk that can have certain credit or endo value later if nothing else, and slows down your grind artificially so you don't just get everything at once. It's a F2P PvE game. The game needs to get you to GRIND. 

Now, I'm not saying there aren't some egregious outliers that should certainly be looked at, and some that go beyond useless filler to ""REALLY?!". But you are always going to have a fair amount of garbo. It's how this kind of game keeps the hamster wheel turning. 

Some filler is fine but when 80% which may or may not be a bit of an exaggeration is filler that's when things are a problem.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

7 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

And my point was
Just think how many life strikes or quickening mods u would need to get to miss vitality?
How many before you come back here with same problem saying it should be something else than life strike and quickening?

Because trust me i get your idea and it sounds cool on paper but eventually everything becomes junk once you have enough of it

and once again you missed my point entirely, life strike quickening were just examples of middle ground. Seeing a dirt common at 70 minutes is plain insulting when you're on a high level planet. at least give some more befitting of the level of difficulty.

 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

16 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

And my point was
Just think how many life strikes or quickening mods u would need to get to miss vitality?
How many before you come back here with same problem saying it should be something else than life strike and quickening?

Because trust me i get your idea and it sounds cool on paper but eventually everything becomes junk once you have enough of it

I am well aware it would eventually be junk but junk is better than low rate garbage, and that is what a vitality mod is especially since it's one of the first mods you get in this game.