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Aren't we in some sense the same as the grineers?


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I was playing the other day, and usually, just like everyone else, I never paid attention to the dialogues before but for some reason, I was quite attentive this time. So as players we've always judged the grineers as mindless followers that follows the queen's orders without questions and one dialogue that prove such a thing is they'll often be saying " for the queens " but then if you pay attention to our tennos, during the missions they'll sometimes say the samething but instead of the queens they'll say " for the lotus". So my belief is just as we've been quite judgemental of the grineers, we've started to become like them since we've always done lotus' bidding without questions nor suggestions. What's yalls take on that dialogue? And do you've your own theory?

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The Corpus, Infested, Grineer, Sentient, and Tenno all share the fact they were created by the Orokin. I'd start there. I agree we both share the general matriarchal figure that has us go commit genocide throughout the origin systems theme. I see where you're going with it.

Edited by Skaleek
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But it's not just that they're conditioned to blindly follow the Queens but what the Queens make them do. Between attacking civilians with their campaign against Cetus or in Kuva Assaults where we stop them from firing on some colony to Defection missions where they're trying to stop us from saving (and killing them themselves) their own people just because they refuse to fight.

Plus just like the Grineer who refuse to follow their conditioning (defectors and Steel Meridian) we've gone against Lotus' orders on multiple occasions. And we've been operating without her entirely since Apostasy.

Sure most missions are done without any explanation as to why we're capturing this person or sabotaging this ship. But even if we're not fully aware of what we're going through with we're at the very least the far lesser evil of all the widespread factions.

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1 минуту назад, trst сказал:

we're at the very least the far lesser evil of all the widespread factions.

i wasn't checking but i'm pretty sure i murdered corpus crew members in enough numbers to fill a city a size of Pittsburgh.

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38 minutes ago, (PSN)ITS_TH3GOD said:

I was playing the other day, and usually, just like everyone else, I never paid attention to the dialogues before but for some reason, I was quite attentive this time. So as players we've always judged the grineers as mindless followers that follows the queen's orders without questions and one dialogue that prove such a thing is they'll often be saying " for the queens " but then if you pay attention to our tennos, during the missions they'll sometimes say the samething but instead of the queens they'll say " for the lotus". So my belief is just as we've been quite judgemental of the grineers, we've started to become like them since we've always done lotus' bidding without questions nor suggestions. What's yalls take on that dialogue? And do you've your own theory?

How do you hear ourselves? (That sounds wrong)

 

How do we hear ourselves? I thought warframes couldn’t speak?

 

 

 

 

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Just now, (XBOX)Beowulf Tyr said:

Why do we follow the orders of The Lotus? Why trust her at all? Especially since it turns out she is a Sentient Spy reprogrammed by the Orokin. She doesn't tell is how our actions will bring balance to the system, we simply trust she has access to the big picture.

Probably because she was responsible for your revival. Not that we have a choice. You wanna play the game? You playin the game for Lotus son.

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4 minutes ago, Kel_Silonius said:

i wasn't checking but i'm pretty sure i murdered corpus crew members in enough numbers to fill a city a size of Pittsburgh.

Crewmembers who're shooting right back at you and are committing atrocities just as the Grineer do.

Sure it is a bit different with them as we have evidence of at least some Corpus being more or less blackmailed into fighting for their owners (Fortuna debt slavery). But considering the Perinn Sequence exists they do have some choice to fight against the Corpus instead of being another cog in the machine.

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I think the question is philosophical, of course the game has us playing for Lotus. It is however interesting to note that we are as unquestioning of our leader's orders as the Grineer are to theirs. We want to think we are the good guys, but the Grineer think they are the good guys too. 

4 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Probably because she was responsible for your revival. Not that we have a choice. You wanna play the game? You playin the game for Lotus son.

 

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3 minutes ago, trst said:

Crewmembers who're shooting right back at you and are committing atrocities just as the Grineer do.

Sure it is a bit different with them as we have evidence of at least some Corpus being more or less blackmailed into fighting for their owners (Fortuna debt slavery). But considering the Perinn Sequence exists they do have some choice to fight against the Corpus instead of being another cog in the machine.

Plus, Ask-a-Cephalon pointed out that the Lotus moved to keep Tenno away from civilian populations wherever possible. In turn, that means that the Corpus the Tenno fight are most likely those that are in a militarised position - weapon traders, those selling directly to the Grineer, or so forth. Chances are a lot of the scavengers that basically 'feed' off areas once a Tenno's done with them are Corpus that are wise enough to not aggravate the Tenno, or who aren't militarised.

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28 minutes ago, FishMcCool said:

Now all they make is war

ive never seen a grineer drop or even carry a war not even a broken war or its parts or bp so my charicter is clearly a compulsive lyier

 

Just now, Skaleek said:

Probably because she was responsible for your revival. Not that we have a choice. You wanna play the game? You playin the game for Lotus son.

sure we asume that she is on our side just because sh woke us up she could have just found us woke us up told us a whole lot of bs just so she could get a private tenno army that does her bidding no questions asked we defending this guy in the pod who is he oh we rescuing this captive how did he get caught with the tenno were doing all the dangrous stuff this dude we capture is vital to enimy opperations but how did she find that out way over where she is hiding and if the dude was so vital why has the enimy work not even slowed since hes gone?........seriously she was our boss and never told us where she was and when here hiding location was found she pulls a where on earth is carmen sandiago and slips away to .......where is she now? she is on a ship but where is that? as far as i know all we have been told about her and why we fight with her was told to us by the lotus so she could have conned us to do all this (if you remember the first mission cap vor didnt want to kill us and wanted us taken to his ship and other grireer bosses say forget the lotus and join the grinner so they are trying to reason with the mass murderer that is slaying their forces 

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The same way X Country is the same as the Y Country: They both have laws that are to be followed, they both have governments, they both have people, they both have similar job offerings...

The similarity is superficial. Fundamentals on the other hand...

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19 минут назад, trst сказал:

Crewmembers who're shooting right back at you and are committing atrocities just as the Grineer do.

aha. so we invade private prooperty to steal classified information, to kidnap a person, to perform act of sabotage which will also result in death of many people abord a space vessel (some of them might not fire at you because they are serfs, engineers, cleaners etc.) but sure if they fire on tenno under such conditions they are just as bad as grineer.

Tenno are not executioners, tenno are not bringers of balance (which is yet another point of discussion, because balance of Lotus is when both sides keep killing each other with out this side or that side taking a lead), tenno are mass murderers. Tenno do not build, Tenno destroy. Tenno do not give life, Tenno take lifes in most brutal fashion possible.

And i know what i'm talking about, i main Mag, how about to die with your legs shoved deep inside your ass, and because of that your spine is being snapped under funny angles. A good way to go don't you think?

Edited by Kel_Silonius
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34 minutes ago, trst said:

But it's not just that they're conditioned to blindly follow the Queens but what the Queens make them do. Between attacking civilians with their campaign against Cetus or in Kuva Assaults where we stop them from firing on some colony to Defection missions where they're trying to stop us from saving (and killing them themselves) their own people just because they refuse to fight.

Plus just like the Grineer who refuse to follow their conditioning (defectors and Steel Meridian) we've gone against Lotus' orders on multiple occasions. And we've been operating without her entirely since Apostasy.

Sure most missions are done without any explanation as to why we're capturing this person or sabotaging this ship. But even if we're not fully aware of what we're going through with we're at the very least the far lesser evil of all the widespread factions.

But that's just the issue though, our Cephalon had to make a "fake one " in order for us to still feel "dedicated " heck I honestly do think DE should've made teshin take over.

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32 minutes ago, Kel_Silonius said:

i wasn't checking but i'm pretty sure i murdered corpus crew members in enough numbers to fill a city a size of Pittsburgh.

And in some missions we can even attract non fighter grineer members (uk. The engineers that fixes the ship, the don't attack unless we hurt them 1st)

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1 minute ago, Kel_Silonius said:

-snip

This ain't Steven Universe, are you expecting to sit down in the mission let them beat you to death and you're there thinking they'll listen to you saying "hey can you not put people in massive debt"

These factions make people's lives miserable, don't see anyone on our side complaining or deserting. And no we wouldn't kill anyone that doesn't join us, the Kavor are exactly that, grineer that want to live peacefully and rather not join our side and yet we still help them do just that.

We are not saints but we're not monsters, we're pretty neutral

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32 minutes ago, (XBOX)Beowulf Tyr said:

Why do we follow the orders of The Lotus? Why trust her at all? Especially since it turns out she is a Sentient Spy reprogrammed by the Orokin. She doesn't tell is how our actions will bring balance to the system, we simply trust she has access to the big picture.

Exactly. 

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30 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Probably because she was responsible for your revival. Not that we have a choice. You wanna play the game? You playin the game for Lotus son.

We can't be "revived" I'd we were nevr dead in the 1st place, and the only reason why we were "revived" was 1) cause she lost control and 2) as u saw in the beginning of the mission, it was to beat vor to it since he would've revived us 1st n do his bidding.

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my charicter "we fought with honor"

proceds to cut enimys in half burn them with fire proc so their dead body is charred kill them with pox spores that melt their exteria complete vaporisation with the arca plasmor so there is no body left kill them then raze their soles from the dead to fight for us sentence them to be synthised and forced to die a billion times a day for reasearch and so many other horrors that there is no way this is gonna be an open casket funeral ...........so how is this fighting with honor? causing excessive harm even to the enimy is a war crime and a simple bullet or arrow could have done the job but we are like kuva nukor inflates enimys (yeh thats not causing excessive inturnal trauma)

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15 minutes ago, Kel_Silonius said:

aha. so we invade private prooperty to steal classified information, to kidnap a person, to perform act of sabotage which will also result in death of many people abord a space vessel (some of them might not fire at you because they are serfs, engineers, cleaners etc.) but sure if they fire on tenno under such conditions they are just as bad as grineer.

Tenno are not executioners, tenno are not bringers of balance (which is yet another point of discussion, because balance of Lotus is when both sides keep killing each other with out this side or that side taking a lead), tenno are mass murderers. Tenno do not build, Tenno destroy. Tenno do not give life, Tenno take lifes in most brutal fashion possible.

And i know what i'm talking about, i main Mag, how about to die with your legs shoved deep inside your ass, and because of that your spine is being snapped under funny angles. A good way to go don't you think?

Exactly, like we've nevr tried to even have diplomatic peace with em(granted the 1st time we met the queens  they tried to take control over us) but like we've got parvos that we could reach a deal with..etc etc

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5 minutes ago, Kel_Silonius said:

aha. so we invade private prooperty to steal classified information, to kidnap a person, to perform act of sabotage which will also result in death of many people abord a space vessel (some of them might not fire at you because they are serfs, engineers, cleaners etc.) but sure if they fire on tenno under such conditions they are just as bad as grineer.

Tenno are not executioners, tenno are not bringers of balance (which is yet another point of discussion, because balance of Lotus is when both sides keep killing each other with out this side or that side taking a lead), tenno are mass murderers. Tenno do not build, Tenno destroy. Tenno do not give life, Tenno take lifes in most brutal fashion possible.

And i know what i'm talking about, i main Mag, how about to die with your legs shoved deep inside your ass, and because of that your spine is being snapped under funny angles. A good way to go don't you think?

They also enslave their own (Fortuna), use children as leverage (Waverider/Glast Gambit), and would choose to destroy a potential cure to the Infestation out of spite (Tubemen of Regor) among other things. Sure there may be collateral damage to other Corpus in our actions but we're not out here enslaving other Tenno or using children as shields just to make a quick Credit.

Still the lesser evil here.

 

Just now, (PSN)ITS_TH3GOD said:

But that's just the issue though, our Cephalon had to make a "fake one " in order for us to still feel "dedicated " heck I honestly do think DE should've made teshin take over.

There is also the Mother/Child relationship between us and the Lotus so Ordis imitating here is likely just following that thread while also being the lazy option by DE. But since Apostasy/The Sacrifice we have been seeing mission directors other than Lotus/Ordis with the Entrati on Deimos, Little Duck with Disruptions, and Cy in Railjack.

So we certainty don't require the Lotus or some facsimile of her in order to do what we do.

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