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Did they show another open world?


WingR84
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Just now, LillyRaccune said:

No worries!

No. They are refering to two grineer bosses that were never added to the game.

5neahr.jpg

They do discuss the Ghoul Saw later in the stream at about the 46 minute point.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/929319095?t=00h45m58s

Ohhh, gotcha. 

Yeah I'm out of it lol. I work at a hotel as a front desk manager and the internet was out for a lot of the shift on a really busy day and we had to do a bunch of stuff by hand lol. It was a total nightmare, so I can't really human very well right now haha. 

I appreciate it. 

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13 hours ago, MakotoSmile said:

I see Plains of Eidolon, Orokin tower and the sentient warship Murex. 

yeah, and at 0:28 is fortuna. The yellow tint threw me off, at first. Those weird angles are from dramatic purposes, I guess.

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What if we came to the tau system after the invasion, and what if duviri was a dream...

Or another system...

After the destruction of the sentients we go there, from seeing a dream...(wtf I don't make sense)

Edited by sauceyboii11
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On 2021-09-18 at 4:47 AM, LillyRaccune said:

No worries!

No. They are refering to two grineer bosses that were never added to the game.

-Snip-

They're the rework of Sprag and Venkra Tel, the minibosses you fight in Void/Derelict Sabotage missions, in case you were wondering.

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4 hours ago, Corvid said:

They're the rework of Sprag and Venkra Tel, the minibosses you fight in Void/Derelict Sabotage missions, in case you were wondering.

Ah! Thank you for verifying that! I thought they were familiar, but I didn't really recognise them. I was hoping they would be new bosses to face in the Star Chart. It's a bit of a surprise that DE has already prepared the rework, but decided not to implement it.

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On 2021-09-18 at 9:18 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

Ohhh, gotcha. 

Yeah I'm out of it lol. I work at a hotel as a front desk manager and the internet was out for a lot of the shift on a really busy day and we had to do a bunch of stuff by hand lol. It was a total nightmare, so I can't really human very well right now haha. 

I appreciate it. 

Hand jobs can be quite hard

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On 2021-09-18 at 3:39 AM, WingR84 said:

But also Erra speaks about "summon your devil" meaning that they want to build portals to bring hunhow to us?

No, this is incorrect. Erra is speaking about us, the Tenno, commonly referred to by the Orokin as 'void devils' and similar terminology.

In the mythos of Warframe's history, from the Orokin's point of view, we are the evil ones. We survived the Zariman Ten-0 incident, we have freaky magical powers, at least one of us is responsible for burning Margulis with energy... It's no wonder that they think that way.

Hunhow is a Sentient, and by virtue of Erra being Natah's brother, that indicates that Hunhow is also Erra's father.

So, no. The line in question is probably being spoken to an ally of the Tenno, like Teshin for example, who was on the Sentient ships in the trailer (in a prime position to be monologued at by Erra), about summoning one of us.

On 2021-09-18 at 3:39 AM, WingR84 said:

Over all i just dont understand how the new, blue aliens with the would play a role here, because on the art we can see a guy that looks like he wears a Dax armor. Where would a Dax army come from in our universe? Based on that it sould be another universe.

In this case, they're completely separate as far as we can hypothesise on it.

The Duviri Paradox Trailer shows a world with multiple strange things that you access after going through a Void disturbance of some kind (the Trailer on Youtube doesn't include the section that happened before it at TennoCon, where a Warframe piloting the Railjack is hit by this disturbance and the Tenno is literally knocked free of their Warframe).

These strange things include gigantic Orokin constructs, a mechanical Dax riding a mechanical horse, and even a beached ship that looks remarkably like the Zariman Ten-0 from the blueprints we saw in The Sacrifice.

It's also the 'Planes' of Duviri, not the 'Plains', which implies that this is a dimensional shift of some kind.

What this allows? It allows for any number of weird things. That faction of people previewed to us? They might be Orokin. They might be the survivors of the Zariman crash that have formed some chaotic form of society here in this different Plane. We don't actually know.

All we know is that the Planes of Duviri is completely separate, currently, from The New War.

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17 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Ah! Thank you for verifying that! I thought they were familiar, but I didn't really recognise them. I was hoping they would be new bosses to face in the Star Chart. It's a bit of a surprise that DE has already prepared the rework, but decided not to implement it.

Apparently there's been a bottleneck at some stage in production (either Animation or Sound), and they've been too focused on other, more pressing projects to complete what is ultimately a fairly low-impact rework.

Also, as a side note, it's an amusing coincidence that you referred to the amendment to your other post as a "Corvid-19 injection", since at the time you were typing that I was having my second jab. Normally that joke annoys me (as I've had this name since 2013), but I'll let it slide just this once.

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8 hours ago, Corvid said:

I'll let it slide just this once.

Thank you. I decided to fix my post anyway. I have been reading your posts since I joined on my PS4 account in 2018. I thought it was a little humorous when I posted it, but I didn't consider how persistent and annoying it would feel for you.

I know the feeling. It isn't that I am "bullied", but IRL people are always comparing my name to "Tim Hortons" and "Tim Bits". It drives me friken nuts! But I bet they think it's funny when they say it too.

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1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

Thank you. I decided to fix my post anyway. I have been reading your posts since I joined on my PS4 account in 2018. I thought it was a little humorous when I posted it, but I didn't consider how persistent and annoying it would feel for you.

I know the feeling. It isn't that I am "bullied", but IRL people are always comparing my name to "Tim Hortons" and "Tim Bits". It drives me friken nuts! But I bet they think it's funny when they say it too.

Hey, like I said, the coincidence made it amusing. My entire style of humour is built on serendipity, and it was clear that you didn't mean it with hostility.

I like to believe it's ultimately a matter of people thinking that they're the first person to make a given joke, and it doesn't occur to them just how tiresome it can be on the other end if they aren't.

Regardless, this is off topic, so I think I'll leave it at that.

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On 2021-09-19 at 8:07 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

The line in question is probably being spoken to an ally of the Tenno, like Teshin for example, who was on the Sentient ships in the trailer (in a prime position to be monologued at by Erra), about summoning one of us.

I assumed he was speaking to Natah, telling her to summon the Tenno. It's spoken with the same tone and cadence of his lines from earlier cinematics "Call them home" and "Finish the war". He still probably associates the Tenno with Natah, especially when you remember his conversation with Lotus in the Erra quest, when she is surrounded by Tenno, so that's why he calls them "your" devils, even though Natah appears to be on his side for the moment.

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On 2021-09-19 at 11:07 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

The Duviri Paradox Trailer shows a world with multiple strange things that you access after going through a Void disturbance of some kind (the Trailer on Youtube doesn't include the section that happened before it at TennoCon, where a Warframe piloting the Railjack is hit by this disturbance and the Tenno is literally knocked free of their Warframe).

These strange things include gigantic Orokin constructs, a mechanical Dax riding a mechanical horse, and even a beached ship that looks remarkably like the Zariman Ten-0 from the blueprints we saw in The Sacrifice.

It's also the 'Planes' of Duviri, not the 'Plains', which implies that this is a dimensional shift of some kind.

What this allows? It allows for any number of weird things. That faction of people previewed to us? They might be Orokin. They might be the survivors of the Zariman crash that have formed some chaotic form of society here in this different Plane. We don't actually know.

All we know is that the Planes of Duviri is completely separate, currently, from The New War.

It's worth noting that the recent New War gameplay demo heavily alludes to the Duviri Paradox being tied into the New War. Ballas speaks of each character as "seasons" that change, his current Amalgam form appearing behind his past Orokin form. Just after this Lotus appears in both her Sentient and Humanoid forms. Then the Operator appears alone and turns to face the stormy emptiness. Remember Adult Operators from the Duviri Paradox? Curiously absent from this visual symbolism but highly relevant to it.

Many factions speak of the Void as an afterlife, especially the Corpus Profit Cult. Quite interesting that the Tenno have an adult counterpart there, isn't it? DE confirmed that the mounted swordsman was a form of Dax during a Devstream and the art for the Duviri faction look suspiciously like the Orokin. If the Orokin are all immortal, but are now dead, where did they go? Perhaps to the Void along with all of the Dax soldiers that the Tenno killed during the Collapse.

Oh, and regarding the Zariman Ten-Zero: The ship crashed in the Void may simply be another colony ship patterned off of a template. As I recall it was recovered from the Void. The Ten-Zero was allegedly intended to colonize Tau and the Tenno children were extensively educated about Tau as indicated in some Second Dream dialogue. The Ten-Zero may not have been the only attempt at colonization.

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1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

I assumed he was speaking to Natah, telling her to summon the Tenno.

Indeed, this is also a good take ^^

1 hour ago, Mints said:

It's worth noting that the recent New War gameplay demo heavily alludes to the Duviri Paradox being tied into the New War.

I wouldn't say 'tied in'. The things we've seen of Duviri all indicate that it's separate from our current situation and also something we kind of happen upon by accident.

But, that doesn't mean that it can't be the direct lead-in to Duviri as a consequence, the same way that The Second Dream leads to The War Within.

1 hour ago, Mints said:

Oh, and regarding the Zariman Ten-Zero: The ship crashed in the Void may simply be another colony ship patterned off of a template. As I recall it was recovered from the Void.

Yes, the Ten-0 was recovered.

Buuuuuut... The way the trailer is done, it's heavily implied that whatever setup is there for the quest plays with time. Even the simple idea of 'planes' can just imply an alternate reality where things went differently.

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1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Buuuuuut... The way the trailer is done, it's heavily implied that whatever setup is there for the quest plays with time. Even the simple idea of 'planes' can just imply an alternate reality where things went differently.

That's the prevailing theory, and there's some interesting things that happen in Lua Spy missions and the Second Dream regarding time, but I'm not so sure that's the case. For some time I've been thinking "What was the First Dream?" The Worm Queen still calls us a "dreamer." On some level the true nature of the Tenno condition still hasn't been revealed to us. What appears as time travel or an alternate reality may be a simple misconception on our part.

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14 hours ago, Mints said:

The Worm Queen still calls us a "dreamer."

Well that one's easy, at least. The Queens called us Dreamers because we were asleep; the Second Dream (whatever the first one was) is clearly known about by people that have survived from the Orokin era, like Teshin and the Entrati.

So the phrase 'The Dreamers are awake' was literally the first thing we heard from the Worm Queen, and in context it makes perfect sense for her to keep calling us that.

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3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well that one's easy, at least. The Queens called us Dreamers because we were asleep; the Second Dream (whatever the first one was) is clearly known about by people that have survived from the Orokin era, like Teshin and the Entrati.

So the phrase 'The Dreamers are awake' was literally the first thing we heard from the Worm Queen, and in context it makes perfect sense for her to keep calling us that.

Not so sure about that. Ballas was the primary researcher the Empire had for a long period of time and I can't recall him ever using the word "dreamer" in reference to the Tenno. Calling us dreamers even after being awoken doesn't quite follow. Teshin, their direct subordinate, is just as aware of the dream(s) as the Queens. Some of the Entrati have a fundamental understanding of the Void and the Man In The Wall as well as the loss of memories. Even Nora, who calls her listeners dreamers, seems to know something more than she probably should about the "family" and the Void.

It just seems to me there's reasons to believe we're still in a dreaming state. Ever had a dream within a dream, the experience of dreaming that you've woken up but haven't truly woken up yet? I have to wonder if that's where the Tenno are: Stuck between dreaming states but not truly awake.

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24 minutes ago, Mints said:

I can't recall him ever using the word "dreamer" in reference to the Tenno.

Ah, key difference here: Ballas always knew what the Tenno were.

The way it's described, and the way that Ballas was actually going to defect from the Orokin to reveal the secret of the Tenno to the Sentients, means that the vast majority did not know.

The Tenno only became a thing through their actions as controllers of the Warframes. The vast majority thought that the Tenno were the Warframes, or vice-versa. Even we, the players, thought the Tenno were us, the players (before The Second Dream), and in-universe the Tenno inhabited the Warframes and jumped between them.

What can be more important to a Queen, who survived for thousands of years by Transference between steadily more-and-more rotting Grineer Yuvans, than knowing that somewhere in the System there are these amazing children who are asleep?

Thousands of years of them sleeping, dreaming, and when they wake it's time for her to make her move and slough off the Grineer meat body and become young, strong and Empowered by the Void?

For generations we've slept, we are, to the vast majority of the Warframe universe who even knew what the Tenno even were, the ones who slept until so recently.

It's going to be hard to shake off that moniker, when it's literally all they've known about us for thousands of years.

We are the Dreamers, and now we are Awake.

And a new War is upon us.

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22 hours ago, Mints said:

For some time I've been thinking "What was the First Dream?"

The first dream was when the Tenno were put to sleep soon after they were recovered. When the Orokin found the Zariman ship, the Tenno hurt their rescuers, including the principal investigator Kaleen, and Margulis herself. These were uncontrollable outbursts of Void energy and caused severe burns on Kaleen as well as blinding Margulis. In response, Margulis put them to sleep, possibly a medically induced coma with a prototype version of Transference.

  • "We couldn't help it, the outbursts. We hurt her, blinded her, but even then, she never abandoned us. In the dream we found peace, and she sang to us in that cold, dark…."
  • "She put us into the dream, brought us peace."
  • "In dreams we could control it, focus it."

During this "first dream", Margulis attempted to heal the Tenno's trauma of the Zariman incident. As we learn later in The War Within, much of this therapy involved blocking the Tenno's episodic memory of the event. This interference with the Tenno's memory may have served as a starting point for the confusion of identity that was to come later.

Once the Orokin had exhausted their other options during the Old War (including the first-generation warframes that Ballas calls "battle-drones"), it was discovered that the Tenno, in their "first dream", had a degree of control over the rampant warframes. This eventually gave rise to the Warframe Project as we know it: Ballas would design and create a warframe (often based on the test subject's original personality or qualities, as we have seen from the Mirage Prime and Gara Prime trailers), and then match it to a Tenno child (implied to also be based on the Tenno's personality). The Tenno would go into a deeper level of sleep wherein they assumed control of the warframe and believed they were the warframe, with a new identity as a warrior of the Orokin ("I'm confused… I thought I was…."). This is the second dream. From the information we have, it doesn't seem like the Tenno ever woke up from the first dream, but were transitioned to the second dream seamlessly ("It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid, second dream").

During the quest The Second Dream, your Tenno Operator wakes up and leaves the Reservoir. This represents them waking up from the second as well as the first dream simultaneously. For the first time since they were recovered out of the Void, they are finally awake, and they remain so for the rest of the story.

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

the Second Dream (whatever the first one was) is clearly known about by people that have survived from the Orokin era, like Teshin and the Entrati.

It's a little curious how the Twins and Entrati knew about the Dream, given how much the Tenno were shrouded in secrecy, but they do seem to have been fairly high-ranking in Orokin society.

4 hours ago, Mints said:

Ballas was the primary researcher the Empire had for a long period of time and I can't recall him ever using the word "dreamer" in reference to the Tenno. Calling us dreamers even after being awoken doesn't quite follow.

Ballas was aware of the Zariman children before they entered the Dream. They represent more to him than just that. However, most other Orokin would probably only know about the Tenno once they were being used for warframe Transference, and thus they only thought of the Tenno as "Dreamers". To the Twin Queens, the Tenno have been dreaming for as long as they've known about them; it's the Tenno's primary attribute. The fact that the Tenno have awoken relatively recently probably doesn't do much to change the initial impression of the Tenno.

Oops, I didn't see that @Birdframe_Prime already said much of the same thing here.

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9 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

It's a little curious how the Twins and Entrati knew about the Dream, given how much the Tenno were shrouded in secrecy, but they do seem to have been fairly high-ranking in Orokin society.

Put it this way; if your entire government and ruling class was so completely destroyed by a single group of beings that the only survivors are the ones that had some degree of isolation from it, then those beings just... stopped?

I think you'd make it a priority to find out what happened to them. And, over thousands of years, the truth would come out. One way or another.

The only people that don't know, thousands of years on, are people who never knew enough to even ask the right questions.

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