A Cooldown-Energy Hybrid System (Cooldowns for free casts)

[Kadesfy]

First, I know that A LOT of people don't like the idea of cooldown timers on Warframe, and yeah, that would ruin the flow of a game like Warframe, but this topic focuses on another thing.
So, I've seen some topics about the energy starvation that new players suffer in the early games, and for the cause of that, don't get to use the Warframes abilities very often.
Then, how about the abilities to have cooldowns, but that does not mean you cannot cast it, if you cast within the cooldown timer, you spend the normal energy like we always have to. The cooldown timer is for a FREE cast of that abilities, of course, DE would have to do some math and put the cooldown timer for all abilities in the game.
But I see that can make the gameplay more smooth, and not only for the new players, the energy leech the people do not like (to say the least), does not make you defenseless and unable to do anything anymore, you will just be on the wait for the recharge, keeping you more in the game flow, just having to be more strategic.
The timers would reset aways for the last cast of that ability you spending energy or not. Abilities that drain energy per second still drain it, only having the free cast for it.
Of course, this is a rough idea, but I kinda like it when it passed on my head and just wanted to share it.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

So change the entire game for the people playing the first 100 hours....when most their time will be spent after that when they're not beginners and have plenty of energy options?

[Kadesfy]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So change the entire game for the people playing the first 100 hours....when most their time will be spent after that when they're not beginners and have plenty of energy options?

The first hours into a game are the most important ones to keep players. And there are already codes for cooldowns into the game, so the game already has some foundation pre-built in.
The gameplay for the veterans will not change(a lot), we got Energize, Preparation, Rage, etc... So we will barely notice it, and when we do, it's when we saved some, hooray...

So in summary, yes.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So change the entire game for the people playing the first 100 hours....when most their time will be spent after that when they're not beginners and have plenty of energy options?

Pretty much... Yes 🙂

8 hours ago, Kadesfy said:

The first hours into a game are the most important ones to keep players. And there are already codes for cooldowns into the game, so the game already has some foundation pre-built in.
The gameplay for the veterans will not change(a lot), we got Energize, Preparation, Rage, etc... So we will barely notice it, and when we do, it's when we saved some, hooray...

So in summary, yes.

+1 

Explained very Nicely 👍 !!!

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

When I was new I came to the forums to complain about the crappy energy economy.  I got spoiled on what operators were with someone telling me to run Zenurik if I needed energy, and that I should just spam energy pizzas, as if new players have access to that level of resource stockpiles.

Necramechs dropped and re-highlighted how bad base energy economy really is, with ridiculous metas popping up for Orphix Venom to keep your mech's energy filled.  

The devs don't care and a certain element in the community thinks whatever the devs do is automatically perfect, so there's huge pushback anytime anyone wants to have a conversation about base energy economy being trash.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

15 hours ago, Kadesfy said:

The first hours into a game are the most important ones to keep players. And there are already codes for cooldowns into the game, so the game already has some foundation pre-built in.
The gameplay for the veterans will not change(a lot), we got Energize, Preparation, Rage, etc... So we will barely notice it, and when we do, it's when we saved some, hooray...

So in summary, yes.

You know it's not one single thing that makes a player stay, right?

Someone being able to use an extra ability isn't gonna just magically stay and play the game if they're also too cheap and impatient to handle an online game.

Cooldowns are for the few frames they belong too, but this isn't final fantasy and never will be. 

It doesn't matter anyways, the time and work and resources it will take to implement wouldn't be worth it. 

[Kadesfy]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You know it's not one single thing that makes a player stay, right?

I know what you mean, but one step forward is better than none.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Someone being able to use an extra ability isn't gonna just magically stay and play the game if they're also too cheap and impatient to handle an online game.

Being able to do something more often, shows the player better how the game is and how it really works (kinda...). And making the player not feeling like "trash" for almost never be able to cast for the lack of energy.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Cooldowns are for the few frames they belong too, but this isn't final fantasy and never will be. 

As I said in the title and on the main topic, they are not really cooldowns, are timers for free casts, I don't want to all Warframes be like Lavos (kinda like him, but was expecting more...)

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It doesn't matter anyways, the time and work and resources it will take to implement wouldn't be worth it.

THAT really (and sadly) is a good point, but as they say, hopes die last...

[Kadesfy]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

When I was new I came to the forums to complain about the crappy energy economy.  I got spoiled on what operators were with someone telling me to run Zenurik if I needed energy, and that I should just spam energy pizzas, as if new players have access to that level of resource stockpiles.

Yep, I probably saw some of these topics. And just on my point of view, the pizzas are more a band-aid then a game mechanic, maybe somebody argues on that health pizzas are not, but thats another discution.

 

4 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The devs don't care and a certain element in the community thinks whatever the devs do is automatically perfect, so there's huge pushback anytime anyone wants to have a conversation about base energy economy being trash.

That's not exclusive to warframe.... but I believe the devs can care if enough people complain and comment about it. The players asked so much for crossplay and crossave, Hydroid trailer, ghoul saw, and EVEN the new war. (I really don't remember when, but on a devstream last year maybe, Steve said that the new war would be "more an event than a quest" or something like that.) and people on chat got vocal about it.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 hours ago, Kadesfy said:

Yep, I probably saw some of these topics. And just on my point of view, the pizzas are more a band-aid then a game mechanic, maybe somebody argues on that health pizzas are not, but thats another discution.

 

That's not exclusive to warframe.... but I believe the devs can care if enough people complain and comment about it. The players asked so much for crossplay and crossave, Hydroid trailer, ghoul saw, and EVEN the new war. (I really don't remember when, but on a devstream last year maybe, Steve said that the new war would be "more an event than a quest" or something like that.) and people on chat got vocal about it.

Pizzas are a game mechanic. You're confusing what you think the game should be versus what it is.

Even games based in the wild west have a gear wheel mechanic. This game takes place in a time when people like you and me died thousands of centuries ago. These people have better technology than Batmans Utility belt.

The game is based on loot, hence letting you craft 10,000 shield pizzas if you put the grind in to do that. 

You're more than welcome to not use something if you don't like it though.

[Kadesfy]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Pizzas are a game mechanic. You're confusing what you think the game should be versus what it is.

Even games based in the wild west have a gear wheel mechanic. This game takes place in a time when people like you and me died thousands of centuries ago. These people have better technology than Batmans Utility belt.

The game is based on loot, hence letting you craft 10,000 shield pizzas if you put the grind in to do that. 

You're more than welcome to not use something if you don't like it though.

That why "And just on my point of view", that's just my inner game designer talking about you having to open a menu in the middle of a gameplay... I'm not demanding to take that out of the game, and yes, I think I never used it, just like ciphers, but I have no problem with people that use it.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

31 minutes ago, Kadesfy said:

That why "And just on my point of view", that's just my inner game designer talking about you having to open a menu in the middle of a gameplay... I'm not demanding to take that out of the game, and yes, I think I never used it, just like ciphers, but I have no problem with people that use it.

Ever heard of a hotkey? It's probably even easier on PC, but on Ps4 you can use a health pizza at the touch of a button or even swipe, which makes it 5x cooler.

[Kadesfy]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Ever heard of a hotkey? It's probably even easier on PC, but on Ps4 you can use a health pizza at the touch of a button or even swipe, which makes it 5x cooler.

I use hotkeys for other things: Archwing, k-drives, mech, scan, heavy weapon, and landing craft. All other keys are too far away.

but not gonna lie... swiping looks really cool (even though I with my coordination would pick everything but what I really want lol)

[Kaggelos]

I dont care about the moding consequences, i just really love this idea, and yes, it would make early game WAY more bearable, and current gameplay even more entertaining, and i'm all for it.

[Yamazuki]

It would make more sense to adjust energy costs and have Warframes start with 100% energy while reworking/removing energy leeching effects. 

Strictly for early to mid game, lower costs and starting at 100% already greatly improves ability usage without adding a needless layer for people to keep track of. DE could even slightly buff the Flawed Streamline for further energy cost reduction and increasing the energy provided by Flawed Flow for higher energy capacity. There's also Energy Siphon that could be increased from 0.6/s to 1.0/s and being rewarded early on as the first aura mod which would help, especially if they're just playing on public where it would stack.

I already know Preparation exists for 100% energy upon spawning, but it's a mod tied to arbitration which is no longer early game. It was a poor band-aid solution, and the mod shouldn't even exist. DE likes comparing Warframe to RPGs when it's convenient to do so and then say not to compare when it's not, recently Helminth levels as an example, but the overwhelming majority of them you start at 100% MP/Energy equivalent. Even other grind shooter/hack and slashes typically start you at max resources, just as how we start with max HP/Shield/Ammo values. 

[Drasiel]

This was the same idea I had for helping balance out early game energy consumption so take my +1

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

6 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

I already know Preparation exists for 100% energy upon spawning, but it's a mod tied to arbitration which is no longer early game. It was a poor band-aid solution, and the mod shouldn't even exist. DE likes comparing Warframe to RPGs when it's convenient to do so and then say not to compare when it's not, recently Helminth levels as an example, but the overwhelming majority of them you start at 100% MP/Energy equivalent. Even other grind shooter/hack and slashes typically start you at max resources, just as how we start with max HP/Shield/Ammo values. 

That highlights one of warframe's main flaws, giving out solutions to what should be baseline game mechanics in the form of tediously hard to obtain items, and then disguising it as "variety". DE has a very unhealthy tendency of sticking to their bad design decisions while, in their mind, graciously selling you the solution, and cluttering even more the progression system. See Vacuum, weapon swap speed, the entirety of the energy economy, the recent gun "buffs", and most warframe augments. 

Focusing on the energy issues, the whole system is constantly in a binary state of either being utterly starved of resources, or having so much that the entire economy becomes a non-issue. And you can see exactly how we ended up in this situation: we started with something that barely and through pure luck allowed you to use the game's flagship piece of equipment, to having restores, to having energize, to having zenurik and protea just remove the issue altogether. I feel I don't need to emphasize why relying on a consumable to gain a fundamental gameplay resource is moronic, and DE admit it themselves with the limitations on gear they put on supposed endgame content. Energy, as is, happens to be a completely obsolete system that more and more frames are designed to outright ignore with internal meters, cooldowns, and resource generation, as it can't act either as a limiting factor for game-defining abilities, nor as incentive to save resources with cheaper yet weaker skills. 

So, DE should absolutely bite the bullet and start reworking the economy to create internal cycles for each warframe, where specific actions, be it the usage of low-tier skills a la Virulence, weapon-play or resource exchanges like Garuda, fuel the resource meters for your kit-defining powers, without the need for random energy drops. A well thought-out system could both solve early game starvation and limit the omnipresence of gamebreaking abilities in late game, which heavily ties DE's hands in terms of encounter design.