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Does High Riven Dispo == MR Fodder?


WH1735S0W
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In your opinion, do you feel the higher the riven disposition of a weapon, the more of an MR fodder it is?

 

Or do you feel there are diamonds in the ruff  when it comes to good weapons with a high riven disposition? Probably the best example I can give are the Boar Prime, Scindo Prime and Sybaris Prime. I feel these are good weapons but they also have a high riven disposition.

 

What do you think?

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3 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

In your opinion, do you feel the higher the riven disposition of a weapon, the more of an MR fodder it is?

 

Or do you feel there are diamonds in the ruff  when it comes to good weapons with a high riven disposition? Probably the best example I can give are the Boar Prime, Scindo Prime and Sybaris Prime. I feel these are good weapons but they also have a high riven disposition.

 

What do you think?

Yes and no. 

Yes better weapons tend to float to the top of the popularity pile for a reason. But riven dispositions are based on weapon popularity, not DE going in and doing true baseline stat audits, as far as I understand it. So I don't think it should be taken as too much of an indicator of much of anything. 

Edit: Also keep in mind for newer weapons they always start with the worst disposition and it could take multiple prime cycles for that to even out to where it really makes more sense even just going popularity-wise. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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No. Not necessarily... but probably.

My favorite example is Cerata... it's got 1.36 disposition (5 solid circles) according to the wiki. But this weapon can enable you to solo Steel Path John Prodman (and the no-fall-off AOE makes Index very silly). Glaive Prime has a harder time (and I don't recommend it for any John Prodman run, Steel Path or otherwise) because Slash doesn't bypass shields and some Index enemies are entirely immune to Slash procs. Point is, Cerata ain't MR fodder despite its disposition... it is criminally overlooked. It can even destroy Steel Path Kyta Raknoids... it's ridiculously powerful for Corpus. I definitely recommend it for Index!

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Cerata

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8 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

In your opinion, do you feel the higher the riven disposition of a weapon, the more of an MR fodder it is?

 

Or do you feel there are diamonds in the ruff  when it comes to good weapons with a high riven disposition? Probably the best example I can give are the Boar Prime, Scindo Prime and Sybaris Prime. I feel these are good weapons but they also have a high riven disposition.

 

What do you think?

Actually a really good question.. and Tesseract7777 is spot on .. example both my main melee weapons I use now, are what I would not have even considered to use when I was a less experienced player, now I have 2 disposition 5 melee weapons that I use, 1 is for Steel Path as a Khora stat-stick, but it still kills anything when its used just by itself, the other again is a disposition 5 melee that I use as my main weapon everywhere else.  Both have great Rivens that took me absolute tons of Kuva to roll (thanks DE for that terrible gambling systems btw).  But its about getting the weapons and trialing them for yourself.  Dont listen to anyone else until you have tried it utilising the disposition on a riven getting the best stats you can.. yes it take time and effort but its really worth it.. just dont use any new weapons as they will take years before they even get close to being balanced.. pick a few with stats that work with your playstyle and roll those rivens until you get something that works.. if you find it is great.. then kick that RNG Kuva Slotmachine in gear and try to get the perfect stats.. if it doesnt then you've already got your MR fodder done and dusted and move to the next one.. you really wont be disappointed.

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24 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Also keep in mind for newer weapons they always start with the worst disposition and it could take multiple prime cycles for that to even out to where it really makes more sense even just going popularity-wise. 

sad Magnus Prime noises

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12 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Is anyone who believes this implying Synapse is Mastery Fodder?

hah  .. when I first got it i did .. used it .. thought what a piece of junk sold it to free up slot .. 2 years later released.. what an idiot i was and now it sits there fully forma'd as a beast of viral corrosive hurter.. lol sometimes you cant see the trees etc etc.. 

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mr fodder is anything you don't like, rivens exist to put weak weapons on par with powerful ones. Weak weapons aren't MR fodder if you enjoy using them and can run high content (if youa re into that kind of stuff)

Example: For me, Cedo it's MR fodder, I don't care how good its mechanics and stats are, I didn't liked it at all and deleted it inmediatly after leveling up 30. Basmu on the other hand, is considered MR fodder by a lot of people, but I #*!%ing love that weapon and enjoy using it a lot. I like its mechanics, and while weak, it's perfect for my needs.

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The Warframe community is obsessed with min-maxing weapon selection. Even if the extra 10% power a gun has is completely meaningless in 97% of Warframe content they will obsessively use the slightly stronger gun.

Some guns just have lame shooting mechanics but with a full set of mods every gun in the game is viable for the majority of content. The point of rivens is to make money for DE on plat sales but the secondary point is to make you want to use less popular guns.

The only MR fodder is stuff you personally don't like using, the only thing that makes a gun 'non-viable' in the meta is the meta itself which in Warframe is comically restrictive compared to the power balance reality.

Edited by Hardwood
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90% of the time...probably.

No matter how much importance people place on modding being the sole decider of a weapon's value, the simple fact remains that several guns just by basic design alone will always be naturally inferior simply by innate function.

I don't care how good you are at modding, the Ambassador will always just be plain mediocre because of the base stats it is working with for example.

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52 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Is anyone who believes this implying Synapse is Mastery Fodder?

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The biggest downside of Synapse is that it lacks AoE or any type of multitarget damage unless you mod for punch through. If its beam was able to split between targets similar to Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron, it would instantly become a more desirable weapon.

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3 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The biggest downside of Synapse is that it lacks AoE or any type of multitarget damage unless you mod for punch through. If its beam was able to split between targets similar to Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron, it would instantly become a more desirable weapon.

I mean...that's a problem almost all guns face.

Also, with all due respect and no insult intended, lol at modding for punch through, the mods are overpriced and your playstyle options to take advantage of it devolve into "Sit in the end of a hallway and hope enemies line up".

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8 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The biggest downside of Synapse is that it lacks AoE or any type of multitarget damage unless you mod for punch through. If its beam was able to split between targets similar to Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron, it would instantly become a more desirable weapon.

That's because the future of Warframe's combat is to be that level of brainless where effective Range is more practical than any other stats. Synapse is a good example of that, hence why I mentioned it.

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29 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Also, with all due respect and no insult intended, lol at modding for punch through, the mods are overpriced and your playstyle options to take advantage of it devolve into "Sit in the end of a hallway and hope enemies line up".

You make it sound like utilizing punch through is difficult, when in fact it is very easy and extremely common to have multiple enemies in a group. Even hitting 2 enemies at once doubles your damage compared to what you would be doing against a single enemy. When you are slotting the 8th mod for your build, very tiny number of mods will allow you to multiply your damage by as much as punch through would. Primaries also have Primed Shred, which gives 55% burst dps increase from the fire rate portion of the mod alone. If you hit 10 enemies at once, the mod is increasing your damage by an additional 900%.

Most of the time in this game is spent oneshotting every enemy you come across. When people min-max their weapons for raw damage, most of it goes absolutely wasted because enemies do not even have that much health. Utility mods are very often completely overlooked, when they could speed up your killing significantly more than just adding more overkill damage on top of overkill damage.

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Be aware, dispo is mainly a popularity contest.

If it's low dispo it's mostly because it's popular and it's usually popular for a reason (i.e. it's a good or very good weapon, very powerful or has some advantage over other weapons). High dispo weapons are, for the most part, not very used and that's usually for a reason, either the weapon is outright bad, old (needs updates or buffs to keep up with current content), low damage or it has some sort of deeper problem preventing widespread use. Of course, rivens can (and often do) help with these weapons but not every weapon has potential.

 

Because it's mainly a popularity contest sometimes weapons that are essentially 'meta' for a new activity may get a dispo drop if that activity is popular enough. I.e. when the railjack anomaly was the new hotness and Paracesis was being widely used because of the sentients and the red crystal that can only be destroyed by it there.

Edited by Denizium
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1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

You make it sound like utilizing punch through is difficult, when in fact it is very easy and extremely common to have multiple enemies in a group. Even hitting 2 enemies at once doubles your damage compared to what you would be doing against a single enemy. When you are slotting the 8th mod for your build, very tiny number of mods will allow you to multiply your damage by as much as punch through would. Primaries also have Primed Shred, which gives 55% burst dps increase from the fire rate portion of the mod alone. If you hit 10 enemies at once, the mod is increasing your damage by an additional 900%.

All of that effort is completely overshadowed by the simple fact that AoE weapons can do the same thing, without needing enemies lined up (or even close together in the case of some weapons) and without needing to waste mod space on a Punch Through mod.

Even if you're going to say, use Vauban's Vortex to clump enemies together anyway, there's no point in using a Punch Through weapon when you can just walk up to the inert pile of jiggling ragdolls and melee them to death instead.

Punch Through is flawed because it is a costly option that fails to even get near other innate features of other weapons, especially when those other weapons can use the slot needed for Punch Through for something else, like a Bane mod or whatnot.

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Honestly, I hate the whole "Mr fodder" thing. It's a crappy way to kill the vibe of fun weapons. Newer players hearing that could miss out on good weapons just because of bad modding or lack of meta use.

Rant over. Lol

To answer the question, no and for the exact reason above. Usage of weapons are mostly guided by content creators, who have the largest audiences. Luckily, it's a benefit for fans of the "out of meta" desirables as it allows some nice stat bonuses. 

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50 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The biggest downside of Synapse is that it lacks AoE or any type of multitarget damage unless you mod for punch through. If its beam was able to split between targets similar to Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron, it would instantly become a more desirable weapon.

I'd say it's not as used because of feature creep, it's not really been power creeped into irrelevance damage-wise but other weapons that are similar have better features like target chaining.

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2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

riven dispositions are based on weapon popularity, not DE going in and doing true baseline stat audits, as far as I understand it.

Not quite as of February 2019.

Quote

Past Disposition changes have been primarily based on weapon usage stats, where more popular weapons received lower Dispositions, and vice versa. These numbers were adjusted by hand where we deemed appropriate, but players have suggested we should take it one step further - going forward, we have compiled our own internal ranking of weapon power levels, which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers. As further tweaks bring us closer to “ideal” Disposition numbers, changes should become less drastic, reinforced by our internal rankings providing a solid baseline.

This means that a weapon can never be used and sit at minimum disposition if that's where DE's internal ranking places it. This also means that an extremely popular weapon can still get disposition buffs.

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What's MR fodder can be pretty subjective. There is a lot of content in Warframe, where if you invest into a weapon, mod it correctly, it will kill the enemies in a straight forward manner. So if you enjoy the feel, sound, look, design of a weapon? Worth keeping around, even if it can't necessarily do 2 hour long Steel Path Survivals by itself. 

High Riven Disposition is parts user popularity and parts methodical manoeuvring by DE. Also, as far as I know, we don't really an in-depth transparent understanding of this system. Like for example, we know that Kuva Nukor is really popular and thus has a low dispo, thats really easy to track, its an outlier. When we look at the least popular weapons though, at some point its hard to distinguish how much less these guns that are being used are in comparison to each other. Which of course is why so many weapons are in the lower dispo categories (between strong and neutral) which would be slanted even higher if we didn't get so many new weapons regularly, but like.... for another example, Snipetron is used less than Flux Rifle, but is in a different tier of Riven Dispo. Though its also much harder to get than the Flux Rifle so thats probably a factor. Which is a variable we can apply to all weapons. How does there accessibility factor in. Harpak as well is used quite a significant amount than a lot of other Primaries, yet has one of the highest Riven Dispos. 

I get the spirit of the question though, where the underrated guns with high dispo at? Personally I have always been fond of the vanilla Flux Rifle. It was my first attempt at taking an unpopular weapon and seeing if I invested enough forma and time into it, whether it could be effective, and it was for the content I was doing at the time (Kuva Lich hunting/Sortie). More objectively I think Phage, Convectrix, Quanta Vandal, Synapse are pretty strong. I think their high dispos are a holdover from the status changes that happened like early 2020, these weapons benefitted, but its taking time for the player base to pick up on it. Same reason Phantasma has started to become popular in recent months. 

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6 hours ago, WH1735S0W said:

In your opinion, do you feel the higher the riven disposition of a weapon, the more of an MR fodder it is?

 

Or do you feel there are diamonds in the ruff  when it comes to good weapons with a high riven disposition? Probably the best example I can give are the Boar Prime, Scindo Prime and Sybaris Prime. I feel these are good weapons but they also have a high riven disposition.

 

What do you think?

My Scindo Prime disagrees with that thought.

Also can just means some players don't like a certain weapon or look and hardly use it, to the ones that do use it means they know the beauty of the weapon and get a bonus, until a moron streamer on youtube shows how meta a weapon can be. :facepalm:

I also made my Scindo Prime more like a sword with a skin.

Spoiler

Warframe_Screenshot_2021.07.29_-_12.56.5

Warframe_Scindo.png

 

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6 hours ago, Voltage said:

Is anyone who believes this implying Synapse is Mastery Fodder?

 

 

It kinda is... I don't have any good reason to use it anymore.

Corrosive Meta is done, so the innate Corrosive on it isn't all that compelling.

 

as far as Beam weapons go, I get better results with a Gaze Secondary, built for Viral, Heat, plus its innate Radiation

It his multiple targets at once, and Galvanized Condition Overload works better for it than Synapse, since the Gaze throws in some IPS while synapse is purely elemental. Infinite ammo from Pax Charge is a nice bonus too....

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The term MR fodder is overused to describe any weapon that doesn't match someone's playstyle, Its more to do with how popular a weapon is rather than power. Take for example the Kohmak, it has 5/5 dispo but shreds sp enemies in seconds or the Kohkur which is a very capable sword with 5/5. Still baffled how phantasma is 3/5 when its absolutely bonkers damage

Edited by ReddyDisco
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