Does High Riven Dispo == MR Fodder?

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

Is anyone who believes this implying Synapse is Mastery Fodder?

There are a bunch of beam weapons with strangely good dispos.  I guess beam weapons without either chaining or AoE just have never been that popular. 

 

[Tesseract7777]

11 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

The term MR fodder is overused to describe any weapon that doesn't match someone's playstyle, Its more to do with how popular a weapon is rather than power. Take for example the Kohmak, it has 5/5 dispo but shreds sp enemies in seconds or the Kohkur which is a very capable sword with 5/5. Still baffled how phantasma is 3/5 when its absolutely bonkers damage

True enough. 

I remember back in the days on the forums when we were in the old void key days, it was the same old crap different day. If a new weapon was announced and it didn't personally intertest an individual (even if they hadn't seen the stats yet lol) it was "MR fodder". As a noob I quickly learned that term to mean "weapon I personally am not interested in" as I realized how many weapons other people called fodder that I still enjoyed using or found use for. 

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

It kinda is... I don't have any good reason to use it anymore.

Corrosive Meta is done, so the innate Corrosive on it isn't all that compelling.

It's always had a bizarrely high disposition though, even when corrosive was king.

My guess is that both beam weapons and infested weapons tend to be less popular than more conventional options.  So, infested beam weapon...

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

7 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's always had a bizarrely high disposition though, even when corrosive was king.

My guess is that both beam weapons and infested weapons tend to be less popular than more conventional options.  So, infested beam weapon...

I blame the visual/sound design for beams unpoplarity

seeing a glowing line on the screen that makes a faint 'hissing' noise

just isn't as dramatic as a slug thrower going 'ka-blam ka-blam ka-blam!'

 

In fact a problem that comes up for me with Beams, is I often forget that its time to reload, because their effects are so underwhelming I don't notice it's stopped firing.

[Tiltskillet]

26 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I blame the visual/sound design for beams unpoplarity

seeing a glowing line on the screen that makes a faint 'hissing' noise

just isn't as dramatic as a slug thrower going 'ka-blam ka-blam ka-blam!'

 

In fact a problem that comes up for me with Beams, is I often forget that its time to reload, because their effects are so underwhelming I don't notice it's stopped firing.

That might be part of it.   Although I think of weapons like the Convectrix and Phantasma as being pretty dramatic

[(NSW)Greybones]

In my opinion, the higher the riven disposition, the more fun I can have with a single mod. And that the term “MR fodder” can get #*!%ed. Coined by a bunch of Efficiency seekers to belittle options that don’t grind as fast as the next thing.

Was pretty glad I didn’t follow guides or the community when I first started playing, otherwise I may have skipped the Argonak or scrapped my Lato or never stuck grenades to enemies with my Penta, since I would have been exposed to a bunch of ways to efficiency the fun out of the game (I did that well enough by myself, thank you very much, and regretted it)

[ReddyDisco]

57 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's always had a bizarrely high disposition though, even when corrosive was king.

My guess is that both beam weapons and infested weapons tend to be less popular than more conventional options.  So, infested beam weapon...

Hey i'm not complaining that synapse has high dispo, more stats for me to enjoy. You can have viral, corrosive, heat on the same weapon, delicious! 

[Hypernaut1]

7 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

True enough. 

I remember back in the days on the forums when we were in the old void key days, it was the same old crap different day. If a new weapon was announced and it didn't personally intertest an individual (even if they hadn't seen the stats yet lol) it was "MR fodder". As a noob I quickly learned that term to mean "weapon I personally am not interested in" as I realized how many weapons other people called fodder that I still enjoyed using or found use for. 

This is how you're supposed to approach the game. I try to make weapons as good as it can be. Just because a weapon isn't the best in class, doesn't mean I wont have fun maximizing it's potential if it's fun to use. 

I get bored of meta weapons anyway.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Not at all, that's where the good stats are. Harpaks with 230 crit chance lol. Nowadays even 1.1 dispos are good enough. 

Keep in mind you have to be good at the game to use these though. They require many forma and some skill to use them.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

All of that effort is completely overshadowed by the simple fact that AoE weapons can do the same thing, without needing enemies lined up (or even close together in the case of some weapons) and without needing to waste mod space on a Punch Through mod.

Even if you're going to say, use Vauban's Vortex to clump enemies together anyway, there's no point in using a Punch Through weapon when you can just walk up to the inert pile of jiggling ragdolls and melee them to death instead.

Punch Through is flawed because it is a costly option that fails to even get near other innate features of other weapons, especially when those other weapons can use the slot needed for Punch Through for something else, like a Bane mod or whatnot.

I know it is, which is precisely the reason why weapons like Synapse have fallen severely in popularity, which was the original point I made.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I guess the original intention was to have weak/unpopular weapons with high dispositions. 

Now with the way dispositions are changed, I feel that disposition changes are made for specific weapons without looking at the overall scenario. This makes some dispositions not make too much sense like subpar weapons with low dispo and good weapons with high dispo.

As a riven collector Im kind of afraid to point out some examples which may end up getting nerfed ( well some are already mentioned here anyway)

[0_The_F00l]

Uhhhh .... usually but its not so much a rule as it is a process of deciding what stat works best,

There are a few gems that can shine brighter with the right riven that also have high weapon disposition (usually melee and very few guns).

Neutral disposition weapons tend to be the underdogs that are already good and can get better with the acceptable stats on a riven.

low dispo weapons tend to be already popular and powerful without needing rivens or needing just the right stats.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2021-09-19 at 8:30 PM, ReddyDisco said:

The term MR fodder is overused to describe any weapon that doesn't match someone's playstyle, Its more to do with how popular a weapon is rather than power. Take for example the Kohmak, it has 5/5 dispo but shreds sp enemies in seconds or the Kohkur which is a very capable sword with 5/5. Still baffled how phantasma is 3/5 when its absolutely bonkers damage

It's because people are TOLD to declare things MR fodder. The sense of exploration, trial and error have been replaced by "follow the leader". At least, this is how things appear. 

[Aldain]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It's because people are TOLD to declare things MR fodder.

Nobody needed to tell me the Ambassador is MR fodder, I found out after putting 5 Forma and an Exilus adapter into it, which was followed with a belt of rum to a mix track of breakup songs courtesy of Youtube to signify my broken heart over it.

I'll fully admit not every weapon is MR fodder and people overuse the term, but there are a lot of weapons that need help in the base stat department and aren't worth farming or using by any sane individual.

[Kaotyke]

25 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Nobody needed to tell me the Ambassador is MR fodder, I found out after putting 5 Forma and an Exilus adapter into it, which was followed with a belt of rum to a mix track of breakup songs courtesy of Youtube to signify my broken heart over it.

I'll fully admit not every weapon is MR fodder and people overuse the term, but there are a lot of weapons that need help in the base stat department and aren't worth farming or using by any sane individual.

I think that for the Ambassador to shine it needs the same treatment the Quellor had: the Alt-fire uses LESS of the Magazine. Because using Half of it in the changed shots was pain in the Quellor, it is pain in the Ambassador.

[Flannoit]

iirc Disposition is calculated based on the average usage between the last dispo changes and the current. Kinda like how they used to give us charts every once in a while that showed the most used frames and weapons by player MR level, which they also once-upon-a-time actually used to at least claim influenced where they would start tweaking at least frames who were falling behind.

Extremely popular weapons that a lot of players use a lot = low disposition = weaker riven.

Extremely unpopular weapons that very few/no players use = higher disposition = stronger riven.

It's basically a way to get players to try to build and use the lesser-used weapons by rewarding them with a better riven to make that weapon inherently perform better. (If you have a Riven, ofc)

If everyone's using it, then there's not too much of a reason to give it a super good disposition or else it'll just inherently make people use it more. Imagine if Kuva Bramma had high disposition? It'd be Xoris Problems 2.0 where everyone would be saying "if you're not using the Kuva Bramma, you're not doing it right."

As for "MR fodder" it does very heavily depend. Some weapons are outright garbage, with or without a powerful riven. Either because it's drastically outperformed (either by lower, same, or higher MR weapons), extremely niche (which is the case for a small handful of weapons), or just outright brings nothing to the table. A bad weapon is a bad weapon, and therefore becomes nothing but mastery food.

It's also a bit subjective because some people hate certain weapons that other people love. Depends on playstyle and build.

[Aldain]

Just now, Kaotyke said:

I think that for the Ambassador to shine it needs the same treatment the Quellor had: the Alt-fire uses LESS of the Magazine. Because using Half of it in the changed shots was pain in the Quellor, it is pain in the Ambassador.

It also needs about a 50% increase in base damage of the Full-auto mode and 6-8% more base crit chance by my reckoning.

Having the same base damage as a Braton with only 2% more base Crit chance isn't helping it out at all. even the Stahlta has a 24% crit chance despite the below Average 1.80x multiplier it has, so many of the Ambassador's stats are outright contradictory.

As it stands it actually is only barely better at critting than the Quellor depsite having double the crit multiplier, it's like a Soma Prime with a low crit chance for some reason.