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so frames for the first leveling will stay like they are i suppose so you have to unlock the abilitys at least once for any given frame
and frames i build a second or X time will need to be at least leveled once so they have the abillitys right i wonder who the codeing for that will work out

 

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This QoL change feels like an insult to the face.

If you really want to respect the time and effort the higher MR player have put in the game, why not leave the equip at max level for at least MR30+ players?
Dont get me wrong I appreciate the change but it is to much short-sighted and doesnt really work around the problem with formas.

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Would be nice, if we could opt-out on this.

I seriously think, that the lvling process in itself, unlocking the abilities one after one and adding extra stages to them, is the best way to learn about any frame ingame. To get to know the frame and learn to appreciate it.

I'm someone, that takes new stuff with me in any kind of mission for this matter and don't rush lvling. To me (MR31) this would be a terrible change, which would make it totally meaningless to lvl or improve any frame or weapon. Too many things in game are already just purely MR fodder and with this change, I think this would just increase. To a lvl, where a lot of players loose interest in the game.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb kulow:

Would be nice, if we could opt-out on this.

I seriously think, that the lvling process in itself, unlocking the abilities one after one and adding extra stages to them, is the best way to learn about any frame ingame. To get to know the frame and learn to appreciate it.

I'm someone, that takes new stuff with me in any kind of mission for this matter and don't rush lvling. To me (MR31) this would be a terrible change, which would make it totally meaningless to lvl or improve any frame or weapon. Too many things in game are already just purely MR fodder and with this change, I think this would just increase. To a lvl, where a lot of players loose interest in the game.

technicaly there is a way if you never go past mastery 9 you wont be affected by this but then you might miss out on other parts of the game so you would decide what is worth to your fun more

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Quick reactions:

1) Aw, thank fk finally.
2) Genuinely: Thanks, DE.
3) Well, the leveling process is still crap, but at least releveling will be better now, particularly for higher MRs.
4) Which is incentive to raise your MR. 
5) But does nothing for Legendary ranks, which might or might not be worth a thought.
5b) inb4 rank-40-at-5-Forma Warframes.
(plz no.)

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I hope I am just misunderstanding.....

Are you saying an MR 10 player will NEVER have access to their warframes fully ranked abilities????  MR10 w/ a Lv30 Mag will only have all rank 1 abilities??? 

Or will getting Mag to 30 still max out her abilities but if you forma her you would only degrade her powers back down to your MR....   So like a MR10 player who forma's a Lv30 Mag would still get to keep all 4 abilities but at their lowest rank UNTIL they get it back to Lv30???

--------------

It reads like you are saying MR10 will NEVER have maxed out abilities on a Lv30 mag.  This would be an extremely stupid change that will drive people out of warframe.   Instead of encouraging people to reach for Lv30 your just punishing people for not getting there.    AKA lets force everyone to be Lv30+ so they have to spend plat to buy slots and invest in the game because we arent making enough money letting people CHOOSE to invest.   

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20 hours ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

what if forma was changed to be omni forma? where when you polarize ANY slot, it becomes all polarities?

this changes the restrictive nature of forma, to allow any forma you use, to be any polarity you want. 

this makes polarizing better. with the restiction on aura = aura, stance = stance, umbra for umbra.

A Regular forma should be omni polarity. all forma, for anything. it just opens up the system a ton.

I said this when I started 4 years ago heh.   Still in favor of it.   Like people have said using forma now is RESTRICTIVE and takes away options.   Universal polarity or whatever would truly open up our weapons and frames to MORE variety.  

For example Gara....

I have a max range gara that has augmented spectro-rage/syphon.  Then I have a normal high range/strength build for a large splinter sphere of death.   But my splinter build has to much range..it kills stuff before I can melee them so I been thinking about changing it up...  however to try and get more duration/strength I'd have to use different more expensive mods...   but if I forma for that then I cant fit my other 2 builds.....  

 

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Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ a dit :

I hope I am just misunderstanding.....

Are you saying an MR 10 player will NEVER have access to their warframes fully ranked abilities????  MR10 w/ a Lv30 Mag will only have all rank 1 abilities??? 

Or will getting Mag to 30 still max out her abilities but if you forma her you would only degrade her powers back down to your MR....   So like a MR10 player who forma's a Lv30 Mag would still get to keep all 4 abilities but at their lowest rank UNTIL they get it back to Lv30???

--------------

It reads like you are saying MR10 will NEVER have maxed out abilities on a Lv30 mag.  This would be an extremely stupid change that will drive people out of warframe.   Instead of encouraging people to reach for Lv30 your just punishing people for not getting there.    AKA lets force everyone to be Lv30+ so they have to spend plat to buy slots and invest in the game because we arent making enough money letting people CHOOSE to invest.   

You are misunderstanding. It's QOL for veterans, and incitement for low MR players to go to higher ranks.

 

Le 24/09/2021 à 21:53, Danielw8 a dit :

These changes only will be good for warframes with exalted blades/mesa/scaling nuke... for harrow atlas trinity ash loki doesnt change anything and doesnt change anything about how we get affinity

I beg your pardon, sir, but Atlas and Ash should probably not be in that list, considering their extreme dmg and overall survivability.

Sure, Trinity and Loki might feel a bit underpowered in some cases, but it's because you use them in the wrong scenario. As you wouldn't pick Ivara for tanking, don't pick a mission going solo with trinity and no good weapons, or don't go in kill-heavy missions with a naked Loki when you could have been doing spy missions perfectly, with 3x3 affinity multiplier, in less than half the time it takes the other frames to do so . AKA : "The Right Tool for the Job"

(Really, it's actually OLDER than video games : in pen and paper D&D, you wouldn't try pickpocketting a highly perceptive NPC that has guards all around with the Plate armor-wearing Paladin that is untrained in stealth and has malus on dexterity, There is a reason why there is probably a thief/rogue in the group. Also, using the half-giant Barbarian for this is only legit if his/her intel is at 6 or below, and his/her own stupidity makes him/her believe that (s)he won't be seen because (s)he yelled "Oh, look, a bird !" while pointing at the ceiling)

 

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:26, Klokw3rk a dit :

would this allow MR30s to take unleveled frames onto sorties?

 

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:28, HunterDigi a dit :

Can we do something about sortie's rank 30 requirement too? It sucked not being able to bring Nidus Prime to sortie just because it wasn't fully ranked :/

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:36, alttea a dit :

Great fix, real QoL. Just please fix the frame lvl requirements for sortie and ESO while you are at it

Indeed, I feel like many players are wondering why a "MR30 with lvl 29 warframe with orokin reactor, aura forma, tons of formas, and all slots already equipped with maxxed mods" cannot join into these missions, while a "MR6~8-ish with a lvl 30 frame, non-modded, no orokin reactor, and nothing but unmodded MK-1 weapons" can join and die to every stray bullet or poison aura...

Especially now that they would already get their max lvl skills available...

 

Il y a 23 heures, kulow a dit :

Can still remember the old way, where you rly had to start all over from 0 again, with no mod capacity at all.. only points you got were the aura ones or with the stance.

I personaly can't see the benefit of this, since everyone + big tech is using things like ESO and whatnot to get the lvling process done asap.

But hey.. if there would be no other, more pressing things that need to be done, put some effort into this.. maybe this will bring us some NEW WAR improvements or something

Well, there are limitations to entry to the really affinity-juicy missions. Sanctuary Onslaught in itself is "Meh", affinity wise, while Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is pretty good, but with restriction on warframe lvl... Just like the Sorties mentioned above.

 

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:27, Kialandi a dit :

Will the Warframe stats still reset to rank 0 - i.e. Hildryn will go from 1575 shields down to 450 shields?

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:27, (XBOX)XenixF47 a dit :

Will this apply to Health/Sheilds/Energy on Warframes?

For example there is no difference between an unranked weapon and a maxed weapon for MR 30 players.
Could we get the same applied to Warframes?

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:48, --PV--Eli a dit :

Will you retain health/energy/etc upgrades, or just the ability levels?

Good Question, yet here again, IF I had to choose,  I'd pick a veteran player with a "missing chunk of health/shield/energy due to his warframe not being lvl 30 yet" and good modding, over a newer player with no reactor and ~~~automatic modding~~~.

 

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:28, Goliath20333 a dit :

I guess it's cool but that's not really the problem with formas tho... 

Le 24/09/2021 à 21:26, Wyrmius_Prime a dit :

The only actual QoL change we need is to massively reduce the build time. All the needed reasons for that are already given right there.

Il y a 22 heures, (PSN)Tomplexthis a dit :

i like to take a look at the insanity of 5 forma grind per lich weapon though. 24/23 hours per forma. 

its madness, thanks for this QoL touch though.

Le 24/09/2021 à 20:48, BR31 a dit :

"When we first introduced Forma years ago, Warframe was a much smaller game. We had fewer weapons, fewer Warframes, and way fewer Mods. "

Ngl. you got me in the first half.

Thanks for a little qol feature, but after i read the first sentence - i thought it would be about addressing the forma income-spending rate.

Other than lua method, 24 hours 1 craft , or once in 2 years PS - you don't have that many options other than buying it .
And an active player easily spends 10-20x weekly .
But probably the biggest problem for me -> no stance for exalted weapons+ not enough capacity with the max forma on non-kuva weapons.

Yep, the time needed per forma, the fact you can't put your foundry on "auto" for a few selected items, or have multiple ones building at same time if you have the ressources, is Very limiting.

Also, Forma BP reward on Uncommon lvl of orokin relics ? Why not make it always a BUILT forma ? (or at least, pre-built, needing only the ressources but ready to get in a minute or so)

or Rare drop/rare lvl relic, of "3-formas" BPs, which takes 46-48h to complete, takes three times the ressources of a single forma BP, but since it's a different BP, you could actually craft 3+1+1 = 5 formas in ~2 days.

Also, the "Not Enough Capacity" with all formas applied (on non kuva-weapons) could be somewhat mitigated with the solution below.

 

Il y a 22 heures, TheLexiConArtist a dit :

Yes, finally you acknowledge it's outdated, please finally revisit polarisation--

No, this is not what we needed. This doesn't solve any problem at all.

This here is the minor-est of minor conveniences. What we need is a rework that serves to make polarised items flexible again. Cross-polarity penalties have to go one way or the other, at least, because our modding economy is much more demanding than it originally was. As polarities became increasingly necessary, they went from "adds flexibility" to "restricts flexibility".

 

As it stands, I will get almost no functionality out of this change because the system disinclines me from investing many Forma - I don't want to waste investments with later changes and new mods, I don't want to starve myself out of trying different builds because I needed all the slots restrictively polarised to permit and perfect one build.

I've said it for years and I'll say it again here: Let us unlock polarities as a pool ON THE ITEM from which we can ASSIGN TO SLOTS at will, instead of polarising slots directly.
This can still keep the 'exclusivity' of the special-slots, it's a matter of tracking them as singular polarity unlocks per special-slot separately from the pool of multiple-of-each polarities we're building up for normal slots - or don't track unlock options on those slots at all and give us Exilus Universal Forma to finish the set of Aura and Stance Formas.

A bit crude way to put it, yet mostly exact. (it DOES solve a bit of the "grindiness" problem)

All that would be needed is for a "polarization pool" for the main slots, and maybe another 'mini pool' for the single exilus slot if no "aura/stance/exilus" forma is added.

Ideally, we wouldn't even have to assign them to slots at all. I mean, we have cephalons working with us, I'm sure Ordis could figure out a way to help us see that this ONE madurai polarity available is better spent on that maxed Primed Continuity costing 14 points, reduced to 7, net gain of 7 points, instead of that Rage, costing 9 points, reduced to 5, net gain of 4 points only.

With this, you could actually spend MORE FORMAS on equipment than available slots. You could, if you so wish, have 8xMadurai, 8xNaramon, 8xVazarin, 3xUmbra, 4xZenurik, and equip any mix of mods you could imagine whatsoever... as long as the capacity is still OK with it, which probes another question :

IF we could invest many more formas like this, into a Polarities Pool,

How about using a SECOND identical polarity over a single slot making the mod a QUARTER of the cost rounded up, instead of only half with 1 polarity ?

Let's say I'm modding an Archwing, and there is a madurai, a vazarin, and a naramon polarity available. If I put "Hyperion Thrusters" (20,Naramon) it should automatically assume that it is the best gain for the Naramon polarity, and reduce it to 10, yet I could have the option, if I added a second Naramon polarity, to reduce it even further, to 5.

It cost more formas, but keep flexibility, it has in most cases an overall net loss just like the single-step polarization, since mods are rarely "Even" all the way (like  11 -> 6 -> 3,  or 14 -> 7 -> 4)

There could be limitations to this, like "Only happens once per modding page", or "only happen once per polarity", or "Only if that available polarity has no other mod of the same polarity to reduce cost during first-pass"

It could be a drag-n-drop box of polarities, with a checkbox to (de)activate the auto mode.

Of course, this has to be working with the 3 to 6 modding pages per item, which means DE has to save the polarization info too (not much of a data increase since it was already saved at forma time -this time for each modding page- , but maybe a very minor increase of bandwidth used when changing mods and polarities in the arsenal).

 

Edited by Fanzschnabs
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On 2021-09-24 at 4:57 PM, LillyRaccune said:

Universal Polarity or Stacking Polarity would be a nice QoL update. I feel like five formas builds my configuration into a box. I can't experiment with it at all after that!

I completely agree. I would VERY HAPPILY blow more forma stacking them into slots. That would be a DREAM. 

 

I'd literally throw forma into every slot multiple times because why not! I love flexibility. I love making silly and serious builds. DE please encourage my excessive forma desire!

Edited by Lokanahta
Forgot letters in excitement lol
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So players cryed a lot about the time a forma needs to be build. 24 hours was way to long. So they changed it to 23h. Its a troll. Nothing more. 

And you're talking about "Quality of life"? QOL would be a Forma with a building time of about an hour maximum. 

Thats all. 

Thank you.

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there should also be a bonus to the player who dumps 1000 forma into a frame, so its not a meme. favoritism exists and should also be recognized. frames need to extend to be fully customizable, i want hp, energy, and armor to be removeable and also accolated to how much you forma put in, if forma is 1% at 100 forma its bolster in stats. therefore being a favorited frame. or even every 10 forma makes a aura'd slot. polarity needs to be noticed, it is damning to customizing a frame based on your mod system forcing a player to re-forma and or have a second frame, to have a separate build. volt has 2 distinct builds, discharge and eidolon hunts and both have different polarity builds; so having one frame is not enough to compensate those builds. i dont want 2 frames; i want one frame. i want fully customizable frames. in cannon having 1 frame of each is plausible. you have 1 car, it can drive you to and from work and using forma on it, does what? certainly cant turn it into a truck, you need a truck. but if you cut it up and transform it into a truck, it does. customizable.

also i want 30% less affinity to level a frame to reach lv30 at rank 30. 

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7 hours ago, (PSN)I_TheJester_I said:

So players cryed a lot about the time a forma needs to be build. 24 hours was way to long. So they changed it to 23h. Its a troll. Nothing more. 

You choose to see it like that, but that's not what they addressed. They changed it to 23h to be easier to keep a schedule with building it the same time every day.

 

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On 2021-09-24 at 8:38 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You can go to the abilities menu while level 15 and it will show the current stats. 

And are you referring to this? 

"Excalibur dashes between enemies within a cone 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 meters long and cuts them down with his Exalted Blade. Each strike inflicts 100 / 125 / 200 / 250 base damage."

The numbers with the slashes denote the ability at different ranks.

 

The wiki is not populated with information automatically. Actual people have to go and get it and add it to the wiki manually, and this will make that slightly harder.

Because, with this upcoming change, if you've mastered a frame and are MR 25 or higher, you won't be able to see the stats for all ability ranks if you try and forma to do that. And that's not great! Harrow's Thurible had the wrong per-rank stats on the wiki for months before I noticed it was off while leveling him after a forma, and this makes it at least slightly worse. 

 

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18 hours ago, kulow said:

I seriously think, that the lvling process in itself, unlocking the abilities one after one and adding extra stages to them, is the best way to learn about any frame ingame. To get to know the frame and learn to appreciate it.

This process does not allow a palyer to learn a frame though. When unlocked Volt's Speed has a 5 seconds duration; Shield has 10 seconds duration. How does this enhance learning experience? How exactly do you get the feeling for his Discharge when range scales from 12 to 20 meters? With such undertuned and varying stats it is confusing to plan ahead, as you cannot even judge the ability.
I ask you again, how do ability ranks make the palyer learn and why is it supperior to a system where an ability is unlocked with full potential?

18 hours ago, kulow said:

I'm someone, that takes new stuff with me in any kind of mission for this matter and don't rush lvling. To me (MR31) this would be a terrible change, which would make it totally meaningless to lvl or improve any frame or weapon. Too many things in game are already just purely MR fodder and with this change, I think this would just increase. To a lvl, where a lot of players loose interest in the game.

Leveling would happen anyway when you play more and there still is the incentive to get mastery. This argument is utter nonsesne.

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On 2021-09-24 at 7:48 PM, BR31 said:

"When we first introduced Forma years ago, Warframe was a much smaller game. We had fewer weapons, fewer Warframes, and way fewer Mods. "

Ngl. you got me in the first half.

Thanks for a little qol feature, but after i read the first sentence - i thought it would be about addressing the forma income-spending rate.

Other than lua method, 24 hours 1 craft , or once in 2 years PS - you don't have that many options other than buying it .
And an active player easily spends 10-20x weekly .
But probably the biggest problem for me -> no stance for exalted weapons+ not enough capacity with the max forma on non-kuva weapons.

Valkyr's Claws have a Stance mod called Hysteria. It cannot be changed as the ability accesses the claws but just wanted to clarify that there is one Exalted weapon that -does- have a Stance and a unique one too. As for the others; DIwata is an Archmelee for all intents and purposes, Sevagoth's Shadow isn't a weapon but more like Wukong's clone only cooler... Excal's Blade using which Stances as a Skana is not a Nikana so it would only have Sword stances and Venari's a Pet.

Garuda's Talons are the main one that baffles as the other Exalted weapons at least are used - Peacemaker, Artemis Bow especially yet we only use Garuda's Talons when she has no other melee equipped. Kinda begs the question of why?

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The impression I get is that the intent is to keep people from using a forma, then going to Hydron for 30, then forma, then Hydron (or ESO or whatever) and to actually have a frame that has utility out in the "real game." In other words, to get players to go play all the stuff you made.

However, when people get to the point where they're just trudging through the Forma-Hydron or Forma-ESO two-step, it's because that's all there is to do. That's Warframe at that point in a player's career. 

I predict that the change will (as someone mentioned early on) shave about 2 minutes off the forma-then-powerlevel loop, but it won't change what players do.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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On 2021-09-24 at 8:26 PM, Klokw3rk said:

would this allow MR30s to take unleveled frames onto sorties?

 

Don't think so as you still have to level your gear which to me sounds like it still goes to rank 0 when forma'd

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On 2021-09-24 at 3:20 PM, MrWrightPlays said:

So the wording of the post might be hinting at this, but a clearer answer would be nice: Will this apply to brand new frames that we've just built, or will this only apply after the first forma?

This will only apply after the first forma!

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On 2021-09-24 at 2:28 PM, HunterDigi said:

Can we do something about sortie's rank 30 requirement too? It sucked not being able to bring Nidus Prime to sortie just because it wasn't fully ranked :/

After the frame has been levelled fully and had one forma applied, yes! We're aiming to have this included with the Forma changes, currently the plan. Will affect Sorties, ESO, and Arbitrations. 

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21 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

This will only apply after the first forma!

Oh, that kinda sux, so you're still very gimped in trying the warframe at its full potential from the get-go :/ I frankly really dislike the ranked abilities system, unlocking them progressively is one thing, but getting a really crappy version of it just makes it harder to use the frame in higher levels, where one of high MR would usually play...

 

13 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

After the frame has been levelled fully and had one forma applied, yes! We're aiming to have this included with the Forma changes, currently the plan. Will affect Sorties, ESO, and Arbitrations. 

That's a nice one at least :}

Edited by HunterDigi
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