Forma & Mastery Rank Dev Workshop

[Hello]

19 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

After the frame has been levelled fully and had one forma applied, yes! We're aiming to have this included with the Forma changes, currently the plan. Will affect Sorties, ESO, and Arbitrations. 

This makes this entire change significantly more appealing. It was already good, now it's sounding great.

[kyori]

2 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

This will only apply after the first forma!

May I ask what is the logic behind this?

2 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

After the frame has been levelled fully and had one forma applied, yes! We're aiming to have this included with the Forma changes, currently the plan. Will affect Sorties, ESO, and Arbitrations. 

Does that apply to MR30 and above only? Else you can foresee players will be complaining a low MR bringing a non lvl30 to those content with the excuse of dragging/slowing down the team and all sorts of excuses.

[FuzzyRamen]

For once the sticker actually does something. Can you do QoL for items that takes 1 minute build time? I want to build like 100 instead sitting and looking at the foundry like its a good game to stare at.

[(XBOX)LostSpark13]

Hello,

On top of the other suggestions in the thread I would like to add mine to the pile.

On something that had different builds on 3 slots, before putting a forma you need to make sure the slot you are formating contain mods with the same polarities accros all 3 builds or, mostly for a player under the rank 30, that the build will have enough spare points when formatting; if you do not the game randomly unequip a mod or more.

Could you change the unequipping to greying the mods that the game would have unequipped and putting a warning message over it like "this mod makes the build exceed capacity, its effect won't be applied in mission if this build is selected" please?

I honestly don't memorize all my builds and the current system make it so I need to either memorize, screenshot, link the build or replace some mods with non fusioned versions (and so to keep unranked spares) for all 3 builds, each time I want to forma a piece of equipment.

Just having a mod disabled the time of ranking the thing back up to level 30 would be quality of life just with that hassle taken care of.

If it's not possible, the ability to save a build and reapply it with a click from a saved build library would be an acceptable work around.

 

Another change that would be welcome would be a screen where we could see the three (or more if someone has an additional tab) builds next to each other and the ability to move the mods inside one build with each other. This would allow us to "line" the polarities of the mods in a particular slot before applying the forma, notably to avoid polarities penalty if our builds allow it.

This could even become the apply forma screen since currently you also need to memorize polarity and emplacement since the screen shown is an empty grid.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Darlood]

This is a very welcome change. Now, whilst you are contemplating that change... Could we make Exilus slot similar to Aura, a once only special forma similar to the Aura?

[Do_High_Go]

Jesus, give people a bit of QoL and they suddenly want revamp of the entire game system, 4k remaster, Raytracing and literally removing parts of the gameflow....

Chill the hell down people. The change seems to aim at adding a bit more meaning to MR, that activates AFTER you already leveled and "experienced" the frame from lvl 0 to 30 once. It is something, it may not be what You want, but it is what we all get.

People seem to label this QoL feature in their heads as "This is a fix for ALL the Forma related problems" and then proceed to be mad about it/spam their disconnected from reality self serving "suggestions".

Does someone from DE need to clarify that this is not what those people think it is? Hell no, I am sure their time will be better spent watching paint dry, than making sure some egocentric kid with a keyboard and low reading comprehension is drowning in their own confusion.

"Universal forma for normal slots" Ahhhh, dreamers dreamers..... Snap to reality, it IS bad business!

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

I think you could be a bit more ambitious and just make the gear (Warframe, Weapon, whatever) reset to our CURRENT MR!

I really don't like to do the level up from 0 (no matter how fast it is) just so I can use it properly. Plus with Necramechs, Kuva and Tenet weapons the max level is 40 so even if it resets to 30 (current max MR - not counting legendary), we'd still have the some leveling to do.

Also, I think it's time for "Universal Forma". Even if it took 3 Formas to craft (3 polarities = 3 Formas) I think it would benefit the players a lot. It would give us more build diversity and we'd be prepared in case (e.g.:) we get a Riven for our Weapons, or a Warframe got reworked, or a new game mode required us to change an entire build... that sort of thing.

One last thing: can you make it so our MR influences gameplay a bit more? Maybe higher resource drop rate, better odds at reward pools, even ranked mods (or fully ranked mods, possibly on Stell path) would be a great benefit to players instead of just stuff we use "outside" missions (standing, void traces, mod space, etc).

[Monsieur_Fromage]

Will the way forma deletes your build if you're not a high enough MR be addressed? The main reason I don't forma things a lot is 1) because of frames losing their abilities, which is being addressed, and 2) because whenever I forma anything, at least half my build gets yeeted, for the fun of it.

I'm tired of having to screenshot every build I do so I remember what it is.

And no, being MR 30 isn't a "solution" to this problem, and this doesn't incentivize me to get to MR 30 so it stops being a pain.

Mods should get disabled when you run out of capacity, not de-equipped. In an ideal world, your mods would get re-enabled as you level the frame, mid mission, but if that's a technical challenge that's understandable. But not to be an arm chair dev, but it should be easy to disable mods instead of de-equipping them. You did it with railjack avionics.

[NickelStiller]

Thanks, this makes Mastering a little bit more convenient. But Mastering still is a massive chore if you don't have a friend that helps you with their Equinox.

"Intended" way of mastering incentivizes leaching and takes too much time even with an Affinity Booster. One of the most fun things in Warframe is trying different builds and using different guns and melees, but with current balancing and slow boring Mastering I just don't want to bother trying new equipment. And that massively leeches all fun and enjoyment from the game, at least for me personally. 

I also second the idea of stacking multiple forma into one slot, because it eliminates the FOMO of slapping wrong Polarity and wasting Forma, which will make me (and I hope other players) spend Forma much more liberally.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2021-09-24 at 2:26 PM, Klokw3rk said:

would this allow MR30s to take unleveled frames onto sorties?

 

I hope they consider this. Likely will be overlooked. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

What about health, energy, or other stat bonuses you get per rank? Will those be given based on mastery after forma or will you gain those as you rank the frame again? 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2021-09-24 at 2:42 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

I still think starting rank of gear after formai'ng them should be whatever your mastery rank is. 

This would affect weapons too. 

Then say, this would give leg ranks something to work for, as say at legendary rank one your necramech or rank 40 weapon could start at 31, then 32 for leg rank 2 etc. 

This is a really cool start though, but for me it is not so much the abilities unlock or levels, but the excessive re-leveling that gets tiresome. But I understand DE probably doesn't want to do things that lower amount of time played, thing is, I'd still play, just actual full missions instead of spending my time leveling. Just a suggestion.

This is still cool though. 

This wouldn't work. That would mean an MR30 would be able to forma as much as they want with no farm time to re-rank. That would reduce play time. 

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

This wouldn't work. That would mean an MR30 would be able to forma as much as they want with no farm time to re-rank. That would reduce play time. 

No, it would reduce leveling time. 

People would still play, but with proper gear. That's the point. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

No, it would reduce leveling time. 

People would still play, but with proper gear. That's the point. 

Reducing leveling time is reducing the time you put into playing the game. Are you going you say that I, as an MR30, am not playing less because I don't have to spend the time to re-rank my Nidus Prime 5 times? 

[Do_High_Go]

12 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

No, it would reduce leveling time. 

People would still play, but with proper gear. That's the point. 

That will not be a Reduction of leveling time, it will be a complete and utter Elimination of the leveling process in the case of a MR 30 and above.

Keep in mind, MR is NOT a representation of game skill, it is just a meter that shows how many of the present weapons you have Maxed once, and because of that, it's value cannot justify the ability to literally skip a part of the leveling process that has been in the game for years.

Just for example, I have encountered MR 24 player, that was asking quote "How much xp does this weapon give, will it be enough for me to get to MR 25 , im 7k points away". In essence that person lacks core knowledge of the game and thinks that different weapons (that was before even Paracesis existed) reward different amounts of affinity all whilst he is MR 24. What baffles me is, if you are speed ranking up like that person, so fast that you don't even have time to learn the most basic things about the game, I would think that at the bare minimum that person has done so research on how Affinity works, u know, for the leveling purposes, and yet.... He obviously has not, but he is MR 25 now? Do you get what I mean? There is not benefit for the game for people like this, to have the power to do leveling even faster, as it is obvious those "Hydron babies" only copy builds from youtube and then go level and onto the next one. They will not PlAy WiTh PrOpEr GeAr, because those people will forever lack the knowledge to build a weapon properly themselves.

All those people end up doing, is get to the max MR possible as fast as possible and then proceed to afk in missions and act all high and mighty because "I'm LeGeNdArY 1, yOu CaN't CaLl Me OuT oN aFk'InG, cUz I'm BeTtEr ThAn YoU". Do you really want to shorten the time THOSE people need to put in, before they can start Afking and trolling? Those people do not contribute to the community, do not help newer players, lack basic communications skills, think that they are the "captain of the squad", and refuse to consider any constructive criticism. I do not want such people becoming the majority of players, do You?

The point of all this is to give MR a tiny bit more benefits, not "Solve all things forma related" as i said earlier. MR does not mean jack these days, when a kid with the credit card of his mom and tens of hours a day free time can become Legendary 1 for 3-4 months. MR is not representative of skill, it is representative of XP grind, therefore it should not and Cannot be given the power to skip said XP grind, as it is all that it stands for!

[iPathos]

2 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

That will not be a Reduction of leveling time, it will be a complete and utter Elimination of the leveling process in the case of a MR 30 and above.

Except...you still have to go through the motions of leveling the gear back to 30 if you intend to apply any further forma. By definition that is not elimination of the leveling process.

[DrLego]

I would suggest a wider scale of freedom besides MRs 10-20-30 getting levels 1, 2 and 3 so as to give players a stronger feeling of progression within their warframes as they gain more experience with new equipment. Granted, dividing how it works is hard, maybe even impossible to make a decent slow and steady formula. This is my recommendation.

(Warframe Abilities At Level 0)
MR5: All Unlocked/Unranked
MR10: All Level 1
MR15: Half Level 2
MR20: All Level 2
MR25: Half Level 3
MR30: All Level 3

[Do_High_Go]

17 hours ago, iPathos said:

Except...you still have to go through the motions of leveling the gear back to 30 if you intend to apply any further forma. By definition that is not elimination of the leveling process.

You seem to have completely skipped the process of obtaining the context of what was written.

We are talking about the suggestion of one guy, that they should make frames and weapons, be only reset to your mastery rank after forma. F.e. a MR 10 player puts forma on a weapon, and it starts from MR 10 and he levels only 20 levels of said weapon instead of 30. Problem comes when you are MR 30+ and the weapon/frame (not Paracesis, Tenet and Kuva variants, and Necramechs) will be instantly maxed after the forma, allowing you to spam forma with 0 time spent leveling, except the initial rank up to 30. That DOES fit the definition of Elimination of the leveling process.

650+ ingame items that many people already have spent Time to max 4-5 some even 7 times, each time building up from 0, you do the math how much time that is. I know this may sound as counter argument to what i say, but consider that a veteran will feel SLAPPED in the face if literal Hundredths of hours of their game time suddenly became absolutely pointless. If that was going to be a feature, it was supposed to be implemented wayy back, because if it is now, i can guarantee you 70% of the veterans will leave, and the only ones of them remaining will be Youtubers, streamers and art creators, but not because they like it, but because they are TIED to the Game, be it for money for living or just internet clout.

TL;DR - You missed the point. The idea is nothing bad, but is insulting to any veteran out there and the time they spent. And Yes, it IS an Elimination of the leveling process if you are MR 30+, according to the topic of discussion that You obviously did not read.

[addamrobin2]

2 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

You seem to have completely skipped the process of obtaining the context of what was written.

We are talking about the suggestion of one guy, that they should make frames and weapons, be only reset to your mastery rank after forma. F.e. a MR 10 player puts forma on a weapon, and it starts from MR 10 and he levels only 20 levels of said weapon instead of 30. Problem comes when you are MR 30+ and the weapon/frame (not Paracesis, Tenet and Kuva variants, and Necramechs) will be instantly maxed after the forma, allowing you to spam forma with 0 time spent leveling, except the initial rank up to 30. That DOES fit the definition of Elimination of the leveling process.

650+ ingame items that many people already have spent Time to max 4-5 some even 7 times, each time building up from 0, you do the math how much time that is. I know this may sound as counter argument to what i say, but consider that a veteran will feel SLAPPED in the face if literal Hundredths of hours of their game time suddenly became absolutely pointless. If that was going to be a feature, it was supposed to be implemented wayy back, because if it is now, i can guarantee you 70% of the veterans will leave, and the only ones of them remaining will be Youtubers, streamers and art creators, but not because they like it, but because they are TIED to the Game, be it for money for living or just internet clout.

TL;DR - You missed the point. The idea is nothing bad, but is insulting to any veteran out there and the time they spent. And Yes, it IS an Elimination of the leveling process if you are MR 30+, according to the topic of discussion that You obviously did not read.

i am Legendary 1, with 3800+ hours... and no, it's not a slap in the face, stop being dramatic

let's be honest here, forma is one of the most cancerous aspects of this semi-quasi-freemium-mobile game, where you will be forced to re-level stuff because somebody in DE back in early game development thought it would be an amazing game mechanic

what is my reward for all of my hard work reaching MR30? is it some exclusive skin? exclusive orbiter? exclusive companions? the ability to slap on as many forma as i can without having to re-level them again? NOTHING - instead i get the same stuff as all of the previous MR ranks... and i still have to re-level all of the bs each time i run out of capacity... yeah i'd very much welcome the change to that

this game gets so many free passes because it's apparently "muH bEsTeST fReE to PLey GaEm" or "fReE to PLey GaEm DoNE RigHT"... i bet you if any game tries to do the same they'd get cancelled, but since it's this game, any kind of criticism gets thrown in the trash

[(XBOX)LostSpark13]

I don't understand why it's such a drama that if that one tenno gets his wish. Okay you invested time to level up all your stuff but it doesn't invalidate your effort if the system change and you don't have to do the re levelling up ever again because you are MR30 now.

This change doesn't invalidate your efforts, investment and the memories you made. It just means that now you will have less grind.

You sound very childish when you say that because you "suffered" it would be demeaning if the newer tennos didn't have to "suffer" too. Like, most societies are based around technical progress to reduce the daily grind for every convenience.

[iPathos]

10 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

You seem to have completely skipped the process of obtaining the context of what was written.

We are talking about the suggestion of one guy, that they should make frames and weapons, be only reset to your mastery rank after forma. F.e. a MR 10 player puts forma on a weapon, and it starts from MR 10 and he levels only 20 levels of said weapon instead of 30. Problem comes when you are MR 30+ and the weapon/frame (not Paracesis, Tenet and Kuva variants, and Necramechs) will be instantly maxed after the forma, allowing you to spam forma with 0 time spent leveling, except the initial rank up to 30. That DOES fit the definition of Elimination of the leveling process.

650+ ingame items that many people already have spent Time to max 4-5 some even 7 times, each time building up from 0, you do the math how much time that is. I know this may sound as counter argument to what i say, but consider that a veteran will feel SLAPPED in the face if literal Hundredths of hours of their game time suddenly became absolutely pointless. If that was going to be a feature, it was supposed to be implemented wayy back, because if it is now, i can guarantee you 70% of the veterans will leave, and the only ones of them remaining will be Youtubers, streamers and art creators, but not because they like it, but because they are TIED to the Game, be it for money for living or just internet clout.

TL;DR - You missed the point. The idea is nothing bad, but is insulting to any veteran out there and the time they spent. And Yes, it IS an Elimination of the leveling process if you are MR 30+, according to the topic of discussion that You obviously did not read.

I've used nearly 2600 forma to date. I would not feel "slapped in the face" in any way in the same light as addamrobin12 above. Consider the fact I replied to that one person in regards to their suggestion for a second and maybe it'll make a little more sense. There is quite literally zero chance DE will change the leveling process to in some way scale forma'd item ranks to your MR as that entails less gameplay time - it's entirely counterproductive to keeping players online.

Over 4600 hours in-mission, over 12000 on Steam. I would welcome such a change, but at the same time I know better than to expect or even give credence to the idea that that would ever be implemented. Even in a subscription-based game it would be a stupid thing to do - in a F2P game it is exponentially moreso. I don't blame DE for making that decision as it's quite literally a source of at least part of their profits. It would be willingly cutting into company benefit.

Legendary rank 1 and I only took the time to fully level hounds recently (which put me over the threshold) because I forgot they were a thing. Your attitude is the thing being insulting here, as it's assuming everyone views things with as narrow a lens as you do.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2021-10-01 at 10:00 AM, Do_High_Go said:

That will not be a Reduction of leveling time, it will be a complete and utter Elimination of the leveling process in the case of a MR 30 and above.

Keep in mind, MR is NOT a representation of game skill, it is just a meter that shows how many of the present weapons you have Maxed once, and because of that, it's value cannot justify the ability to literally skip a part of the leveling process that has been in the game for years.

Just for example, I have encountered MR 24 player, that was asking quote "How much xp does this weapon give, will it be enough for me to get to MR 25 , im 7k points away". In essence that person lacks core knowledge of the game and thinks that different weapons (that was before even Paracesis existed) reward different amounts of affinity all whilst he is MR 24. What baffles me is, if you are speed ranking up like that person, so fast that you don't even have time to learn the most basic things about the game, I would think that at the bare minimum that person has done so research on how Affinity works, u know, for the leveling purposes, and yet.... He obviously has not, but he is MR 25 now? Do you get what I mean? There is not benefit for the game for people like this, to have the power to do leveling even faster, as it is obvious those "Hydron babies" only copy builds from youtube and then go level and onto the next one. They will not PlAy WiTh PrOpEr GeAr, because those people will forever lack the knowledge to build a weapon properly themselves.

All those people end up doing, is get to the max MR possible as fast as possible and then proceed to afk in missions and act all high and mighty because "I'm LeGeNdArY 1, yOu CaN't CaLl Me OuT oN aFk'InG, cUz I'm BeTtEr ThAn YoU". Do you really want to shorten the time THOSE people need to put in, before they can start Afking and trolling? Those people do not contribute to the community, do not help newer players, lack basic communications skills, think that they are the "captain of the squad", and refuse to consider any constructive criticism. I do not want such people becoming the majority of players, do You?

The point of all this is to give MR a tiny bit more benefits, not "Solve all things forma related" as i said earlier. MR does not mean jack these days, when a kid with the credit card of his mom and tens of hours a day free time can become Legendary 1 for 3-4 months. MR is not representative of skill, it is representative of XP grind, therefore it should not and Cannot be given the power to skip said XP grind, as it is all that it stands for!

You have deep seated aggression toward high rank players. Whatever has happened to you to make you feel that way, I'm sorry it happened. I feel the need to tell you most high ranked people are not high and mighty and they do help people. I know it's easy to end up viewing it that way because negativity outshines positivity, but it just isn't the case. 

[Arthegall]

This is a change I’m really looking forward too. Have very often not played or forma’d a frame because I didn’t want to just grind affinity with a build not centered around the frames play style. 

[Do_High_Go]

17 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

You have deep seated aggression toward high rank players. Whatever has happened to you to make you feel that way, I'm sorry it happened. I feel the need to tell you most high ranked people are not high and mighty and they do help people. I know it's easy to end up viewing it that way because negativity outshines positivity, but it just isn't the case. 

Mate, I am Legendary 1, by all means I am a high rank player too, also a veteran with 4500 hours in the game. I do not have a "deep seated aggression" towards high ranking players in general. I go however despise and am disgusted by the people that ONLY level weapons to get high ranks and then boast with it, whilst having no knowledge of the game. Yes those exist sadly, and i have seen one too many of them for the 5+ years i have played this game. I was not referring to the people that help new players. I never said all high ranking players are such low individuals as the ones that i actually referred to, I don't know where you got that from, but it is most definitely not something I said or meant by any means

Maybe it is just me, but that type of elitism is not okay , especially from people that lack core knowledge. In that tone, any form of MR elitism is not okay in my humble opinion.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

7 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

Mate, I am Legendary 1, by all means I am a high rank player too, also a veteran with 4500 hours in the game. I do not have a "deep seated aggression" towards high ranking players in general. I go however despise and am disgusted by the people that ONLY level weapons to get high ranks and then boast with it, whilst having no knowledge of the game. Yes those exist sadly, and i have seen one too many of them for the 5+ years i have played this game. I was not referring to the people that help new players. I never said all high ranking players are such low individuals as the ones that i actually referred to, I don't know where you got that from, but it is most definitely not something I said or meant by any means

Maybe it is just me, but that type of elitism is not okay , especially from people that lack core knowledge. In that tone, any form of MR elitism is not okay in my humble opinion.

I never said you said all were bad.