[Post Devstream 157] Nyx, almost close to perfection.

[DrivaMain]

The announced changes to Nyx are very much welcomed. However, there are still a few big issues Nyx has particularly on Absorb, which are absorb still lacks in the damage department and still using the outdated damage per energy mechanic. It would be great if Absorb has an actual damage multiplier and the damage per energy mechanic removed. It really isn't fair to absorb when other damage deflecting abilities have a damage multiplier while still allow better mobility, for example Wukong's Defy.

[T_erry]

I completely agree with your opinion but absorb is not activating ability so if absorb's damage just buffed, that could be encouraging semi afk play or boring play I think damage buffs should be come with synergistic conditions such as more damage to chaosed enemies 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Mind control is still useless. At least it is the still I will definitely drop. It is nice the absorb is getting a buff. These are not the buffs it needed though. Sadly, these changes would not so much to improve Nyx viability. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

I don’t usually use Absorb to kill; most of the time it’s an “Oh crap” button, and if I absorb enough damage to kill a weakened or fodder target, that’s about all I’m looking for really (will need to note the changes to Absorb. I mostly saw the changes to Mind Control and was like “Welp, that’s all I wanted to know” 😋)

edit: I love Mind Control, looking forward to the changes 👍 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

Mind control is still useless. At least it is the still I will definitely drop. It is nice the absorb is getting a buff. These are not the buffs it needed though. Sadly, these changes would not so much to improve Nyx viability. 

Not being being an aoe scaling damage nuke doesn't mean useless. You won't find every frame appealing because they're not all made for you.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Nyx isn't a damage dealer. So that premise is false from the start. "Make Nyx nuke cause another frame can" isn't actual feedback. It's trying to establish juvenile cookie cutter builds.

[AegidiusF]

As annnounced on the Devstream :

1) Nyx Mind control will get a duration buff and give the target a  500% base damage multiplier : this last part is just the integration of Mind Control Aug Mod on the base ability. The question is : what will the augmentation mod become now ? And a target teleportation, just like Wukngs twin, will be added to give Nyx a better protection. Just a detail : if you hit the enem target by Mind Control while he's stunned, damage multiplier will be much greater than 500%, as the ability is now : I usually have about 1000% damage multiplier on them.

2) Psychic bolts will stun enemis on contact : it's just like the effect of Mind Control or Chaos when they affect enemies. Tthe Aug Mod does the same, but it has a much longer duration and can stun enemis for a long time with some duration mods.

3) Nyx Absorb will have base range buff (from 100 to 15m), but a max cap range nerf (from 75m to 50m), no damage change, and it's Aug Mod will now allows rolling (which is great, but moving through weapon combo moves are much faster than rolling, as the attack speed is not affected by the speed reduction of Assimilate).

Absorb, with max range and some power strengh mods was an ability used to cestroy vary fast a defese wave (as its damage bypasses all obstacles) and at the same time protect the defense target. As its damage diminishes with distance, the max cap range nerf means also a damage nerf.

I just love Nyx and with Trinity and Banshee, she is one of my three main frames, and I really waited for a long time for some changes, mostly on her first ability. I'm pretty glad they didn't change a lot of things because I love her 2nd, 3rd and 4th abilities as they are.

The best changes I think they did are the teleportation on Mind controlled targed and to allow rolling with Assimilate.

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Nyx isn't a damage dealer. So that premise is false from the start. "Make Nyx nuke cause another frame can" isn't actual feedback. It's trying to establish juvenile cookie cutter builds.

I agree.

Though the changes to nyx dont jump out at me i am curious to see how the larger base stats on these abilities affects gameplay.

[NinjaZeku]

I still say Mind Control should become a permanent effect when the target has taken lethal damage,
plus maybe allow more than a single target (look at Nekros / Xaku), 3 would be nice, lol full Squad for solo Nyx :D
_{(If that's too much for a Helminth-able ability, "nerf" that version to the current functionality.)}

Furthermore, the target needs to lose debuffs, like Nova 4 slowdown, once MC'd.
_{(Though on the flipside, I'd like them to keep the speed buff from a Speeedva, heh.)}

[sunderthefirmament]

10 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

As annnounced on the Devstream :

1) Nyx Mind control will get a duration buff and give the target a  500% base damage multiplier : this last part is just the integration of Mind Control Aug Mod on the base ability. The question is : what will the augmentation mod become now ? And a target teleportation, just like Wukngs twin, will be added to give Nyx a better protection. Just a detail : if you hit the enem target by Mind Control while he's stunned, damage multiplier will be much greater than 500%, as the ability is now : I usually have about 1000% damage multiplier on them.

2) Psychic bolts will stun enemis on contact : it's just like the effect of Mind Control or Chaos when they affect enemies. Tthe Aug Mod does the same, but it has a much longer duration and can stun enemis for a long time with some duration mods.

3) Nyx Absorb will have base range buff (from 100 to 15m), but a max cap range nerf (from 75m to 50m), no damage change, and it's Aug Mod will now allows rolling (which is great, but moving through weapon combo moves are much faster than rolling, as the attack speed is not affected by the speed reduction of Assimilate).

Absorb, with max range and some power strengh mods was an ability used to cestroy vary fast a defese wave (as its damage bypasses all obstacles) and at the same time protect the defense target. As its damage diminishes with distance, the max cap range nerf means also a damage nerf.

I just love Nyx and with Trinity and Banshee, she is one of my three main frames, and I really waited for a long time for some changes, mostly on her first ability. I'm pretty glad they didn't change a lot of things because I love her 2nd, 3rd and 4th abilities as they are.

The best changes I think they did are the teleportation on Mind controlled targed and to allow rolling with Assimilate.

I feel like DE could increase Mind Controlled enemies' damage by 10,000% or more and it still wouldn't make the ability good.  It needs something else, like percentage based damage, a taunt, a synergy with something else in her kit, guaranteed status procs... something.

 

Absorb is just so clunky and slow.  I hate using it.  The augment is... fine, I guess.  But it's also slow and just not interactive.  I wish they'd throw the whole ability out and give her something else.  Anyone that is sad to see their Assimilate "playstyle" (if it can be called that) gone could just learn and utilize any other number of ways to become functionally immortal.  As it stands, I think Defy is a better version of the Absorb fantasy.  Nyx deserves something else that better fits the telepathy/telekinesis theme she has going.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Nyx isn't a damage dealer.

again, i agree with you (happy to see that honestly, we used to be on the opposite sides of the argument most of the time)

if anything, they should make mind control target act differently based on the nyx abilities it's affected by it.

if it's affected by chaos and you mind control it, it shoots and moves 100% faster

if it's affected by psychic bolts and you mind control it, it becomes stationary but will attack and shoot if close enough.

 

it's mind control, you're supposed to control the target's behavior, isn't that right?

[Leqesai]

53 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I feel like DE could increase Mind Controlled enemies' damage by 10,000% or more and it still wouldn't make the ability good.  It needs something else, like percentage based damage, a taunt, a synergy with something else in her kit, guaranteed status procs... something.

500% damage is actually pretty useful against infested and corpus. Once again grineer are the outlier due to their stupid damage resistance algorithms. 

[(XBOX)Nekros9528]

It's almost Halloween and they chose to buff Nyx besides Nekros (which is the most flawed frame ever) LMAOROFL. Time to move to another game in which Necromancy actually makes sense and is USEFUL.

[sunderthefirmament]

9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

500% damage is actually pretty useful against infested and corpus. Once again grineer are the outlier due to their stupid damage resistance algorithms. 

Have you ever been impressed with your companions' (specters, pets, minions, etc.) targeting though?

 

I do agree that armor is a major contributor to some of the ridiculous balance in this game.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

500% damage is actually pretty useful against infested and corpus. Once again grineer are the outlier due to their stupid damage resistance algorithms.

friend, Mind control target can kill any high level enemy that Nyx debuffs with her Psychic bolts.

i occasionally get 2600+% damage multiplier when hitting the mind control target with a stropha + Mind freak with a damage multiplier from 700% to 1000% depending on my power strength

that's more than enough damage for a corrupted heavy gunner to kill her fellow heavy gunners one by one after stripping their armor 

or for any shotgun wielders to one shot most ads

or, you can mind control infested flying thingies and let them drop their annoying toxin clouds with multiplied damage.

 

their damage is more than great.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Nekros9528 said:

Time to move to another game in which Necromancy actually makes sense and is USEFUL.

do you know another game that has Mind control/psychic abilities in it 🤔 

[Leqesai]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

friend, Mind control target can kill any high level enemy that Nyx debuffs with her Psychic bolts.

i occasionally get 2600+% damage multiplier when hitting the mind control target with a stropha + Mind freak with a damage multiplier from 700% to 1000% depending on my power strength

that's more than enough damage for a corrupted heavy gunner to kill her fellow heavy gunners one by one after stripping their armor 

or for any shotgun wielders to one shot most ads

or, you can mind control infested flying thingies and let them drop their annoying toxin clouds with multiplied damage.

 

their damage is more than great.

This is a good point! 

But grineer damage resistance is still the key issue IMO. Psychic Bolts is excellent for mitigating it but it is still an issue IMO.

20 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Have you ever been impressed with your companions' (specters, pets, minions, etc.) targeting though?

 

I do agree that armor is a major contributor to some of the ridiculous balance in this game.

I agree AI across the board is a big issue. Thing is, Mind Control getting the wukong teleport may mitigate some problems related to targeting and AI. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Yeah, this is a fair assessment, but I think we're looking at this wrong.

What Absorb needs is kind of the opposite dynamic to what it and Assimilate are now (please hear me out).

Currently Absorb is a 'no mobility, total invulnerability, scaling damage' tool with a unique little function of adding damage to your weapons after de-cast up to 400% for a duration or until the ability is used again.

And by contrast Assimilate is a 'reduced mobility, total invulnerability, scaling damage' tool with the same de-cast function.

And I think this balance of 'no mobility' to 'reduced mobility' needs to be biased in the opposite direction.

If we keep Assimilate the exact same as it is now, how about we shift the base Absorb to something like this:

Absorb creates a field around Nyx that reduces all incoming damage by 75% (capped at 90%). Nyx retains all of her other functions and mobility. Damage taken while Absorb is active is converted into radial damage that can be discharged on de-cast to all enemies in range, plus the damage boost to weapons as normal.

De-casting the ability is done by holding the ability button, this puts Nyx into a meditative pose, drains high energy per second, which multiplies the converted damage every second (similar to Garuda's blood ball) while charging up the range of the damage area (up to a cap).

So, what you have is a fully mobile damage reduction ability on par with frames like Gara or Ember, with that signature damage-converting mechanic. The aura is still good for defending points and team members, as it will apply the damage reduction within the field. But, for people that want to use it as an actual Damage cast, the damage part of it can be used by charging it up after you have enough stored damage.

What do you think?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

19 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

a fully mobile damage reduction ability on par with frames like Gara or Ember

this honestly just scares me.

it's why i stopped playing Gauss for a while, and why i tend to look for Warframes that have little to no survivability, and with lots of gimmicks and situational abilities, and with reliance on guts and parkour alone to survive.

Nyx was perfect for me, because she's exactly that, but even if i wanted to cheese some missions or tank a really damaging hit, i still have Assimilate absorb that protects me for a short period.

giving Nyx a long 90% damage reduction ability with no penalties, would just kill the character for many people.

 

i never thought about changing Absorb as i was focused on improving mind control.

but 90% damage reduction is definitely not on my list

[Birdframe_Prime]

50 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

giving Nyx a long 90% damage reduction ability with no penalties, would just kill the character for many people.

... I don't see how it would kill the character.

I mean, sure she's able to tank a hit with the change, but she was always able to tank a hit, even without the Augment due to total invulnerability with Absorb.

Absorb is, currently, one of the abilities that's a hold-over from game play methods that no longer exist in Warframe. It needs updating in some way.

And the thing is that 90% DR is the penalty. It goes from total invulnerability with an energy drain and drain-on-hit function, to DR with the same energy drain and drain-on-hit function and yet now you take damage while it's happening instead of being totally immune to damage for yourself and anyone standing in your sphere. This is already a concept that was proven with the way Pablo worked with Nezha.

You trade total invincibility, which is a limited function in Warframe anyway, for damage reduction, which is a lesser function, and in return you get Mobility.

Also you don't get the weapon damage increase until you purge it, then lose that damage again if you recast it, which is the balance for that function, you get less defense for the players around you (again, DR instead of total invulnerability) and the real benefit for making this a function where you can still take damage during use is that you get DrivaMain's desired function of making the damage scale better.

I can see where you're coming from about just 'giving her 90% DR', but what she already has is 100% DR.

And on top of that Assimilate will still be the same augment, sacrificing her Mobility for the Invulnerability. If you like playing Nyx right now? You get to play Nyx that way after the change by slotting the Augment instead.

That simple fact; that you can still play Nyx exactly the same way after the change... that's why I don't see your point.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Nekros9528 said:

It's almost Halloween and they chose to buff Nyx besides Nekros (which is the most flawed frame ever) LMAOROFL. Time to move to another game in which Necromancy actually makes sense and is USEFUL.

How is nekros the most flawed frame ever? Or are you just going to make a baseless claim and leave it at that? 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

While it will never happen, my dream rework for nyx would be to allow mind control to let you actually control the enemy you select, and play as said enemy. We know DE has created circumstances for playing as corpus/grineer in New War, imagine if post New War you could mind control a lancer and warp your nyx into the lancers mind to play as the lancer for a duration or until they die. Thats what I wish nyx could do. 

[DrivaMain]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Currently Absorb is a 'no mobility, total invulnerability, scaling damage' tool with a unique little function of adding damage to your weapons after de-cast up to 400% for a duration or until the ability is used again.

Forgot the additive damage is a thing, I do find the duration is so.. miniscule. Like come on, only 8 SECONDS? The duration needs to be doubled or tripled as base or make it 25 seconds to be consistent with other damage buffing like vex armor and roar.

[Duality52]

Mind Control's Augment can be changed so that the target is linked to Nyx similar to Nekros's Shield of Shadows and Nidus's Parasitic Link. Any damage the target sustains, grants Nyx increased damage. If Nyx takes damage, roughly 80% of it will have the target absorb the damage instead.

Reason for the suggestion is that Mind Freak doesn't stand out as Mind Control does little in terms of damage. It can be used to steal enemy auras such as Ancient Healers or even Toxic Ancients to buff yourself and nearby allies with Toxin damage along with immunity to Toxin damage.

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

do you know another game that has Mind control/psychic abilities in it 🤔 

Psychonauts hehe