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Useless Warframes


(PSN)Beluga_0
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the helminth system did some help on making some warframes playable but there are a lot of them with more than 1 useless abilities that don't ever get used, even the most used warframe in this game which is wukong prime has useless third and forth abilities.

i think something has to be done if we want more variety in this game otherwise we keep seeing the same handful of warframes used over and over again ...

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Hydroid has cc, mobility and scaling damage. i use him fine in ALL content.  The sudden Hydroid hate has to be a YouTuber meme right now. 

"useless frame" probably means "cant nuke a room" to many people. Not all frames can or should be designed to trivialize all content. 

That said, personally I don't find much fun in using Nekros. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Hydroid has cc, mobility and scaling damage. i use him fine in ALL content.

Considering you can play most content in Warframe without using abilities at all I don't think that's helping his case much.

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I used to amuse myself by farming and playing frames players call useless. Frames people claimed can't stand up to the content available. Hydroid, Loki, Nyx, Grendel, Atlas, Hildryn, Oberon, Inaros etc, 

Some frames are better than others at certain tasks or in certain scenarios. Some frames are more niche. Some frames are better than other frames overall. Some abilities fall off earlier than other abilities, or fall off due to mechanics/content implemented by DE (some of which plays a massive role in the late-game imbalances), but I came to realize quite quickly there are no useless frames, only useless players when playing those frames.

You also have the "if it ain't Top 3 nuke/AoE stunlock it's useless" crowd, who shouldn't be taken literally.

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46 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Considering you can play most content in Warframe without using abilities at all I don't think that's helping his case much.

But I use his abilities for - cc, mobility and scaling damage in all content. That's my point. 

His abilities work and can be used in the hardest content . Therefore- he's not useless. 

 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Depends on the mission and what the goal is, I think. Bringing the appropriate frame for the tasks at hand. It depends on the player's knowledge of when to use a pencil, a screwdriver, or a hammer (appropriate frame/build choices). One wouldn't use a pencil to hammer a nail, therefore it would be deemed useless in that use case. However, let's say one chooses the hammer. Now it's about knowing how to actually use said hammer and when to actually hammer and not hit your finger in the process (being productive with the choice).

Of course, that isn't to say all frames are equal in efficiency in their given tasks (there are many different kinds of hammers that do certain tasks better than others but all generally hammer things), but ultimately It's about knowing when to use specific builds and frames.

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7 hours ago, V2lkyr said:

I think Loki is worse than Hydroid

Replace Decoy with Helminth  Firewalker for speed, status-stun animation, and status effect cure/immunity for you and squad.  Run a Duration/Speed build with Prime Flow and Quick Thinking for E-health along with shield gating.

Run around and indiscriminately kill everything, including SP.

Or be a Puddle-Pirate…

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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Loki's only issue is he doesn't have a damage dealing power. He doesn't need one though because if you know how to use his abilities right you can trivialise pretty much any mission.

There are no useless warframes, just useless players 😎

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4 minutes ago, Butterfly85 said:

Loki's only issue is he doesn't have a damage dealing power. He doesn't need one though because if you know how to use his abilities right you can trivialise pretty much any mission.

There are no useless warframes, just useless players 😎

I've scratched my head 7 ways from Sunday, trying to work out how to make best use of Loki. Be it a rework/light tinkering.

I'd like to use him more, his prime does look very slick thou.

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41 minutes ago, (PSN)Pragmatic_2015 said:

I've scratched my head 7 ways from Sunday, trying to work out how to make best use of Loki. Be it a rework/light tinkering.

I'd like to use him more, his prime does look very slick thou.

My main issue is Decoy melting like ice in a fire once you get to any level, but I need to work on better placement to avoid that.

As for how to use him ...

Max range disarm is great for defence and hijack, chuck on his irridating augment for hijack and the whole tile will melee infighting with one another while you walk off with the objective.

His 1 and 3 combo well in spy to bypass laser barriers and you can use his 2 to not be seen. Invisibility pretty much breaks/shuts down enemies ai

Decoy is fun for defence missions if you can place it somewhere nearby that is also well covered. The enemy will stand next to the cryopod and ignore it while trying to gun down your Decoy.

The fact you can use helminth now only increases the fun you can have with him. Add banish, now you have the perfect rescue frame. Run invis, get your target, banish them so they can't die.

Add rest and rage for the rest portion, throw on his hushed jnvis augment and you have a perfect frame for stealth affinity weapons levelling 

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10 hours ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

Replace Decoy with Helminth  Firewalker for speed, status-stun animation, and status effect cure/immunity for you and squad.  Run a Duration/Speed build with Prime Flow and Quick Thinking for E-health along with shield gating.

Run around and indiscriminately kill everything, including SP.

Or be a Puddle-Pirate…

Any warframe can do that though

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Some interesting points here, but I'm just going to put out my 2 cents. No frame is useless, but there are some frames in need of help.

Frames that need a lot of help / reworks:

Frost: His 1 is only useful for popping his 3; his 2 does terrible damage and isn't worth it; his 3 is detrimental to the team; his 4 is okay i guess. Literally Gara does it better in every single imaginable way.  I groan when I see a frost in party. My back is getting sore from carrying them.

Hydroid: Doesn't have good abilities unless you subsume them on. Sorry about that that hydroid. Being a puddle in 2021 isn't helpful. Even as a loot frame he's still slow to kill and reliant on being stationary, which is not ideal. The upside I guess is you only ever see him if someone is either leveling him or meme-ing. 

Nekros: Bone daddy needs help. Badly. Soul punch doesn't offer anything that my shotgun doesn't do a whole lot faster and better. Terrify is typically the opposite of what I want happening, and SotD feels kind of weak. Can't put my finger on it specifically, but outside of using the augment, I don't find it all that useful either. I have long considered Nekros to be desecrate and literally nothing more.

 

Frames that need just a bit of help / Tweaks

Yareli - Just needs some synergy in her kit to help her do what she wants to do. Aquablades and Riptide need some kind of boost and or tweaks to how they work (like stop throwing my ball of guys everywhere)

Loki - Decoy is just terrible, doubly so in a world where resonator exists, and triply so when it's subsumable. Switch teleport is too niche and needs, I don't know, something. Invisibility is phenomenal and radial disarm is also very good. 

Grendel - His 3 needs a lot more damage, preferably in a wide radius. Meatball mode is still a meme and serious grendels subsume overtop it. Solid frame but needs more playstyle than suck & puke. 

Oberon - While I feel like goatman is actually in a good place, I feel like status immunity should just be baseline with his 3. It wouldn't hurt if maybe allies standing on hallowed ground get some kind of damage/fire rate/status%/crit% buff to help him compete with the likes of protea and wisp for support.

Trinity - Similarly to Oberon, I think that trinity could use some kind of damage/fire rate/status%/crit% buff to help her compete with wisp and protea as supports. Perhaps tie it to well of life (if need be it can be nerfed in helminth)? Overall trinity is still solid though.

 

These are the frames I feel are falling way behind. There are other frames that could use tweaks or reworked abilities, but these frames are either lacking a niche because of underperformance or are being pushed out of their niche for one reason or another. Or they're Grendel. On the whole though, I feel most warframes are in a good place. Most have places in the game where they can be amazing. 

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5 hours ago, Butterfly85 said:

My main issue is Decoy melting like ice in a fire once you get to any level, but I need to work on better placement to avoid that.

As for how to use him ...

Max range disarm is great for defence and hijack, chuck on his irridating augment for hijack and the whole tile will melee infighting with one another while you walk off with the objective.

His 1 and 3 combo well in spy to bypass laser barriers and you can use his 2 to not be seen. Invisibility pretty much breaks/shuts down enemies ai

Decoy is fun for defence missions if you can place it somewhere nearby that is also well covered. The enemy will stand next to the cryopod and ignore it while trying to gun down your Decoy.

The fact you can use helminth now only increases the fun you can have with him. Add banish, now you have the perfect rescue frame. Run invis, get your target, banish them so they can't die.

Add rest and rage for the rest portion, throw on his hushed jnvis augment and you have a perfect frame for stealth affinity weapons levelling 

Disarm use decoy on high ground the dudes cant hit the decoy... meanwhile you are invis doing whatever you want. Loki bad warframe? Yareli or hydroid are way worse..

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I wouldn't call any warframe "useless" but there's definitely warframes stronger then others.

But the thing is every warframe generally has an ability that either A) Is neglected by players or B) doesn't get used as as much compared to the others.

The helminth system fixes that somewhat but there's warframes that are in need of QoA.

Some warframes are just fun to use (Grendel, Yareli) where others are pretty much a standard in every players arsenal. 

But I also think that 4 abilities per warframe is a bit much. Sometimes less is more. I've had the belief if Warframes had 3 abilities instead of 4 most warframes would be in a far better state. 

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16 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Hydroid has cc, mobility and scaling damage. i use him fine in ALL content.  The sudden Hydroid hate has to be a YouTuber meme right now. 

"useless frame" probably means "cant nuke a room" to many people. Not all frames can or should be designed to trivialize all content. 

That said, personally I don't find much fun in using Nekros. 

I think my earlier comments address Hydroid.

19 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

For me, "useless" isn't a terribly accurate descriptor, as this game isn't very challenging and any frame with almost any loadout can compete on most or all game modes.  I would say "irrelevant" is better, or "obsolete," because some frames are completely outclassed and bring nothing particularly noteworthy to the table.

 

Hydroid and Yareli are the two that immediately leap to mind, even with Hydroid's bevy of augments and Yareli's recent changes.  These two have been discussed and debated to death here, but I'll just repeat the general gist:

  • Hydroid was always bad, but when Khora's Pilfering Strangledome augment dropped, it was the final nail in the coffin.  He does have scaling damage, but using it is an absolute pain.  In short, other frames do everything Hydroid does but better or in a more approachable way.
  • Yareli's closest analogs are probably Nezha and Grendel.  All three are frames with a mix of damage, CC, and built in mobility.  All three have broken from the norms in terms of their appearance as well, though in different ways.  Nezha and Grendel both offer better "fun" mobility, better tanking, better utility/support, better damage, and better CC than Yareli.

 

As for whether hating on Hydroid is sudden or a YouTube meme, I've seen complaint threads about him since I started playing, back when Limbo Prime was in PA.  He's been awful as long as I've been playing, though he had some farming use.  But then Pilfering Strangledome came out and made his farming seem paltry by comparison.  There's also the Vauban rework, which has made Hydroid's lackluster CC also seem pretty foul and user-unfriendly.

 

Of course you can use him on basically any content and succeed if you know the game well enough and have a general understanding of which tactics/systems to abuse.  But that doesn't mean he's a good frame.  He's not useless, which is why I hesitate to use that word.  But he's as close to useless as they come in this game, beaten only by Yareli in sheer lack of relevance.

 

Obviously play what and how you want.  I'm just going to hope that if DE is giving Nyx some love even after Pablo stated at Tennocon that they weren't working on reworks, maybe it might mean Hydroid could get some attention too.  I think he needs more than what Nyx is getting, though.

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I really dont get the Loki hate. He probably brings the best CC in the game without a doubt. Non augmented for pretty much everything, then augmented for Hijack, Interception, Excav and Defect. This means everything will come running to you which speeds up whatever you do, or it will run at eachother as you safely go about the main business. Nothing gets stuck on things either with his CC, or stays sleeping in a room far off.

His slight drawback is that he has 2 seperate skills to cover decoy and switch. Currently either can be replaced depending on the content and swapped for something like Larva to further speed up the killing of all things that come running, Radial Blind for finishers on demand, or Fire Walker to just speed Loki up (it also fits since he is also called the god of fire).

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26 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I think my earlier comments address Hydroid.

 

 

Tempest barrage provides CC in all levels of content. It can lock down a doorway, slow enemies down, stop then from attacking, knock them down, spread status

Tidal surge is mobility, CC and a defensive move. It can help you escape situations, ambush a group. Works in all levels of gameplay.

Undertow has scaling damage, cc and a good defensive move. You don't need to stay in puddle, you can gather enemies and pop out to attack with melee. With large groups the damage scales to kill fast enough. Works in all levels of content.

Tentacle swarm is ok. It just provides extra CC along with barrage. It can help CC enemies while in undertow, leaving them vulnerable to melee when popping out. Works in all levels of content.

Hydroid can do defense, interception and survival. 

Not every frame needs no brainer abilities. Hydroid takes a bit more forethought to play. That's all. Compared to other frames, his abilities actually scale to all content. He can avoid damage and Cc, while using weapons to provide damage. 

He's far from useless. 

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

His slight drawback is that he has 2 seperate skills to cover decoy and switch.

That's not a slight drawback, individually speaking Decoy and Switch Teleport are two of the least useful abilities in the current state of Warframe.

It says far too much about Decoy that the best way to get use out of it is to use it to break the A.I. by placing it in very specific locations, and Switch Teleport is just plain worse than Ash's Teleport (which at least opens a finisher up) and is slower to boot.

Before you mention Spy missions, yeah Switch Decoy is reasonably good for some vaults, but then there's Ivara who can just walk through most vaults with no issue whatsoever.

Like I said earlier, Loki isn't terrible, but trying to prop him up as greater than he really is and downplay his clear weaknesses isn't doing him any favors.

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I really dont get the Loki hate. He probably brings the best CC in the game without a doubt. Non augmented for pretty much everything, then augmented for Hijack, Interception, Excav and Defect. This means everything will come running to you which speeds up whatever you do, or it will run at eachother as you safely go about the main business. Nothing gets stuck on things either with his CC, or stays sleeping in a room far off.

His slight drawback is that he has 2 seperate skills to cover decoy and switch. Currently either can be replaced depending on the content and swapped for something like Larva to further speed up the killing of all things that come running, Radial Blind for finishers on demand, or Fire Walker to just speed Loki up (it also fits since he is also called the god of fire).

It's because he doesn't nuke or buff or give an invincible defensive ability. People act like stealth is op but splash damage will kill Ivara and loki quick. 

They are meta and literally don't understand tactics or anything.

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40 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Like I said earlier, Loki isn't terrible, but trying to prop him up as greater than he really is and downplay his clear weaknesses isn't doing him any favors.

How on earth did you get that to downplaying his weakness? It is slight if you look at the whole kit, which we should. His disarm is one of the strongest abilities in the game since it turns every faction into less lethal but armored/shielded infested. I think the his 1 and 3 should be combined no doubt, but it isnt really a severe issue because you can replace either or already for a better skill. If you want damage potential on Loki all you need to do is subsume Tesla from Vauban since it gives you 20m+ AoE goodness with a normal disarm build and is not impacted by massively negative strength. That means any AoE gun you use no suddenly deals damage in a 20m+ radius because you are bound to hit and kill 1+ of those tesla effected targets, which in turn results in the rest dying aswell and spreading 20m+ further from their death location.

If any downplay is going on here it is the people not realizing just how extremely good disarm is.

edit: And yeah Ivara is great for spy, but it is kinda her saving grace because all she brings aside of that is a weapon that does something that several normal weapons can do these days.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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