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DE, please lay off the new Corpus Defense mission


SteveCutler
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A while back you reworked the Corpus ship tileset, and with it we got this god-awful Corpus Defense tileset.

DE, look. Nobody likes this tileset. Nobody wants to play it. You must know that, as it's been complained about constantly since it was introduced, and your internal stats likely corroborate this. It's the single worst mission type + map combination in the game, with the horribly large map, multiple layers, obstacles everywhere, and terrible AI that spawns ten miles away from the objective and takes an eternity to reach it. It takes forever and is no fun to play.

Obviously the ideal solution would be for you to rework the tileset. But I get it, you put a lot of work into making it and you were proud of how it looks. You don't want to throw away that work. Fine.

But could you at least stop trying to force us to play it? Nobody (or almost nobody) is playing this by choice. We're playing it because you force us to with Railjack missions, and you also force us to with Gift of the Lotus alerts. It seems like every single time you do Gift of the Lotus alerts, it's always this god-awful map! Why every single time? We have plenty of other mission types, and if it has to be Defense, then we have plenty of other Defense maps. Why not use the Hydron Defense map for example?

Please just chill and lay off this awful map. Thanks.

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15 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

A while back you reworked the Corpus ship tileset, and with it we got this god-awful Corpus Defense tileset.

DE, look. Nobody likes this tileset. Nobody wants to play it. You must know that, as it's been complained about constantly since it was introduced, and your internal stats likely corroborate this. It's the single worst mission type + map combination in the game, with the horribly large map, multiple layers, obstacles everywhere, and terrible AI that spawns ten miles away from the objective and takes an eternity to reach it. It takes forever and is no fun to play.

Obviously the ideal solution would be for you to rework the tileset. But I get it, you put a lot of work into making it and you were proud of how it looks. You don't want to throw away that work. Fine.

But could you at least stop trying to force us to play it? Nobody (or almost nobody) is playing this by choice. We're playing it because you force us to with Railjack missions, and you also force us to with Gift of the Lotus alerts. It seems like every single time you do Gift of the Lotus alerts, it's always this god-awful map! Why every single time? We have plenty of other mission types, and if it has to be Defense, then we have plenty of other Defense maps. Why not use the Hydron Defense map for example?

Please just chill and lay off this awful map. Thanks.

100% agreed.  If it's a sunk cost issue, then just keep this map around for interception.  It's fine for interception.  Then repurpose a different room from the Deadlock Protocol Corpus redesign for defense.  It would still obviously take time and resources, but the map should not stay as it is.

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15 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

But I get it, you put a lot of work into making it and you were proud of how it looks. You don't want to throw away that work. Fine.

This part is why I feel this tile gets spammed. The tile is fine for interception, sure a little annoying but it's manageable. Defense, it's by far the worst defense tile in the game.

Sorties? Skip.

Gift of the Lotus? Rewards aren't worth that miserable defense tile.

Fissures? Ha, no.

Railjack and Steel Path? Once for each node completion and forget it exists.

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16 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

A while back you reworked the Corpus ship tileset, and with it we got this god-awful Corpus Defense tileset.

DE, look. Nobody likes this tileset. Nobody wants to play it. You must know that, as it's been complained about constantly since it was introduced, and your internal stats likely corroborate this. It's the single worst mission type + map combination in the game, with the horribly large map, multiple layers, obstacles everywhere, and terrible AI that spawns ten miles away from the objective and takes an eternity to reach it. It takes forever and is no fun to play.

Obviously the ideal solution would be for you to rework the tileset. But I get it, you put a lot of work into making it and you were proud of how it looks. You don't want to throw away that work. Fine.

But could you at least stop trying to force us to play it? Nobody (or almost nobody) is playing this by choice. We're playing it because you force us to with Railjack missions, and you also force us to with Gift of the Lotus alerts. It seems like every single time you do Gift of the Lotus alerts, it's always this god-awful map! Why every single time? We have plenty of other mission types, and if it has to be Defense, then we have plenty of other Defense maps. Why not use the Hydron Defense map for example?

Please just chill and lay off this awful map. Thanks.

There is one simple solution that would make everything fine and people would enjoy even this map. Defense rework. And it's quite simple.

Mission starts.
Time 0:00 - First wave spawns
Time 1:00 - Second wave spawns even if some enemies from wave 1 live.
Time 2:00 - Third wave  spawns even if some enemies from waves 1+2 live.
Time 3:00 - Forth wave ... etc.
Time 4:00 - Fifth wave ... etc.

The game just needs to spawn the enemies. 

I don't mind finding a dude stuck somewhere, but the missions is halted because of that. That makes the defense suck.

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vor 38 Minuten schrieb Cerikus:

There is one simple solution that would make everything fine and people would enjoy even this map. Defense rework. And it's quite simple.

Mission starts.
Time 0:00 - First wave spawns
Time 1:00 - Second wave spawns even if some enemies from wave 1 live.
Time 2:00 - Third wave  spawns even if some enemies from waves 1+2 live.
Time 3:00 - Forth wave ... etc.
Time 4:00 - Fifth wave ... etc.

The game just needs to spawn the enemies. 

I don't mind finding a dude stuck somewhere, but the missions is halted because of that. That makes the defense suck.

Great idea in my opinion!

I imagine that defense missions in general might get more interesting the longer you stay because enemies from the waves might add up at some point when they get harder to kill. Also, some game mechanics like the combo counter system or certain abilities would enjoy this change.

Ofc after each rotation it should be like it is now so we can chose to extract/continue.

 

I was really trying to enjoy that Tileset because, yes it looks cool, but the gameplay is just horrible and boring.

The worst part in each Defense, which gets amplified in this Tileset is the red marker for remaining enemies at the end of each wave.

 

Its like "ok, look down there, a remaining enemy" - kill it - "ok, now in the opposite direction let me mark another single enemy" - kill it- "great, now go back to where you came from, but this time upstairs, haha!" - kill it - "Mind if i do this like 5 times after each wave?".....yeah sure, sounds fun 😐

Edited by DreisterDino
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I’ve played the tile a fair few times now. Usually by time an enemy reaches the center they’ll be approaching just as I’ve finished off what I was fighting (if not adding to what’s still there), so there’s not really a dull moment and I don’t have to go searching. I haven’t encountered stuck AI yet

🤔 The main weirdness is when a Treasurer spawns miles away down a little corridor. Not sure what that’s about, but it’s kind of nice to have him backed into a corner where he can’t run away

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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49 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I haven’t encountered stuck AI yet

Consider yourself lucky. I had an entire mission of it on this map. Not a single enemy moved from their spawn point towards the defense target. Nope, not even one.

With four players (pub match) it took us 20 minutes to do 5 rounds because we had to move around the exterior of the map to find each enemy. I've hated this map ever since.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)crashteddy03 said:

Consider yourself lucky. I had an entire mission of it on this map. Not a single enemy moved from their spawn point towards the defense target. Nope, not even one.

With four players (pub match) it took us 20 minutes to do 5 rounds because we had to move around the exterior of the map to find each enemy. I've hated this map ever since.

Whoah. That sounds pretty severe, like the AI just turned off. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)crashteddy03 said:

Consider yourself lucky. I had an entire mission of it on this map. Not a single enemy moved from their spawn point towards the defense target. Nope, not even one.

With four players (pub match) it took us 20 minutes to do 5 rounds because we had to move around the exterior of the map to find each enemy. I've hated this map ever since.

You weren’t in like a massive Limbo bubble, were you?

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55 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Whoah. That sounds pretty severe, like the AI just turned off. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that

I encountered that In My last Excavator... The AI tried to path it's way directly to the Objective causing it to just Stop Moving right In front of the wall... When I showed up there they didn't even Shoot at me .... It's like it was intentionally Trolling me... 😱 !!!

 

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10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I wonder if that's a Switch thing.  Aren't spawns reduced on Switch?

Gah, I really need to get my PC account on here instead of using my switch one to say things.

Sorry for the confusion; I’ve been playing on my PC account. On that account I haven’t experienced stuck AI.

 🤔 Are the spawns reduced on Switch? I haven’t played Switch in ages; last time I did (outside of some testing) I was still coming down from my golden throne, so I was still sort of mopping the floor with god powers and not really paying attention to spawns. I haven’t played Switch since before Deadlock Protocol (was probably around The Old Blood…?)

edit: Wait, it may have been around Scarlet Spear

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I encountered that In My last Excavator... The AI tried to path it's way directly to the Objective causing it to just Stop Moving right In front of the wall... When I showed up there they didn't even Shoot at me .... It's like it was intentionally Trolling me... 😱 !!!

 

Hmm, I’m going to have to keep an eye out. I wonder if I’ve seen it before and just thought that the enemy was hiding or something

edit: Though come to think of it I have seen some weird AI behaviour. Nothing like a whole area not working though

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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While I certainly agree with the overall point of this thread, there is at least one way to make this defense more...let's go with survivable.

Namely: a full range/strength nuke mirage. Explosive Legerdemain doesn't care about levels or LOS and does very unkind things to corpus as some of the drops will deal toxin damage (also good for NW damage cheesing!). Dispensary/trinity/exodia brave speeds this up further to near tolerable levels. A nuke volt would likely work too, but might be more annoying to manage energy with.

Even with full range though, certain corners of the map will require a sweep by another squad member to clean up, super annoying to have a map this large.

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On 2021-09-25 at 8:11 PM, Hello said:

This part is why I feel this tile gets spammed. The tile is fine for interception, sure a little annoying but it's manageable. Defense, it's by far the worst defense tile in the game.

Sorties? Skip.

Gift of the Lotus? Rewards aren't worth that miserable defense tile.

Fissures? Ha, no.

Railjack and Steel Path? Once for each node completion and forget it exists.

This right here is what I do. I'm not doing that godawful tile no matter what "rewards" go behind it. The more DE force it, the less of the game I will see because there's no way in hell I'm going to subject myself to that broken waste of level design.

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5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Exactly how much Strength are we Talking about here ? 😳

 

253, but 'levels' here is in the context of the map's verticality, not enemy levels. Legerdemain falls off hard against armor or level 100(ish) enemies.

Edited by Cenyn
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On 2021-09-25 at 2:11 PM, Cerikus said:

There is one simple solution that would make everything fine and people would enjoy even this map. Defense rework. And it's quite simple.

Mission starts.
Time 0:00 - First wave spawns
Time 1:00 - Second wave spawns even if some enemies from wave 1 live.
Time 2:00 - Third wave  spawns even if some enemies from waves 1+2 live.
Time 3:00 - Forth wave ... etc.
Time 4:00 - Fifth wave ... etc.

This could be amazing but then it's a survival with a different loss condition, anyhow it'd be great to actually get "overwhelmed" by enemies every now and then.

It's almost as if when players can easily deal with enemies Defenses become Wave Exterminates, seriously I just wish the Defense mission rewarded players for defending the objective (and themselves) rather than having to Speedva the tiles to kill enemies as fast as possible as it is in virtually all recent mission types.

Regarding the tile, I don't think it's even possible to fail such defense mission, enemies hardly even reach the targets due to how large the place is, it is unbearable, the tile is fine in other places, but could they please choose another tile for the defense?

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On 2021-09-25 at 3:16 PM, LillyRaccune said:

I like the map, but not for defense! I would like the Old Corpus Ship tileset back for defense missions.

Please, god, no. The enemies still had crappy navigation in that one. I never understand why some of the enemies would not use the steps in front of the pod, instead they would jump onto the sides of the stairs where those little walls were.

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