Tried to play more Chroma again and realized (again) why i stopped playing him after his harsh nerf years ago.

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Well that's great but I made no mention of "mandatory mods".

Play however you want, mods don't make players better.

Yeah, it was just an idea that contributes to the concept of Easyframe and how it's impossible to have a good fight, and it's super annoying and, I think, a detrimental concept to the flexibility of the modding system, which is the frustrating thing. It's like "Yeah, you equip a certain combination of mods to overpower everything, you're gonna overpower everything".

I think by now it's pretty apparent that I thought you were coming from a perspective that you weren't, which drove a lot of what I said. I won't stand for the idea of "Warframe's objectively easy", because it's by choice that we make it so for our own purposes, but I do apologize for the misunderstanding caused by my projection.

[L3512]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Well alright, I'll give you that. Most people I talk to have had a problem with how easy the game is, so yeah, I drew on that and concocted a projection, for which I apologize since it seems now that it's not a problem for you that the game is easy (which is fine if a player wants to take it chill).

Well thanks.

If you ever want to understand the general level of warframe players try disruptions, even pre made squads want to bail early. Last lua disruption I done had 3 Wukong/bramma players, that started to actually die at round 4 or 5 I think, two players couldn't kill demolishers past round three.

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Yeah, it was just an idea that contributes to the concept of Easyframe and how it's impossible to have a good fight, and it's super annoying and, I think, a detrimental concept to the flexibility of the modding system, which is the frustrating thing. It's like "Yeah, you equip a certain combination of mods to overpower everything, you're gonna overpower everything".

I think by now it's pretty apparent that I thought you were coming from a perspective that you weren't, which drove a lot of what I said. I won't stand for the idea of "Warframe's objectively easy", because it's by choice that we make it so for our own purposes, but I do apologize for the misunderstanding caused by my projection.

The issue with Warframe's difficulty (or lack thereof) is that the ceiling for power is way higher than the ceiling for enemy/mission difficulty. We all want to play super powerful characters but the game simply isnt designed well for all levels of skill/power. The high end players have Steel Path (which is an appreciated inclusion) but Steel Path is artificial difficulty. It is just number-bloat and it makes it really clear the disparity between factions. Aside from Grineer, Corpus and Infested in Steel Path are barely more difficult than their normal counterparts. Many of us have been asking DE to revise their damage reduction formulas in use by Grineer so they can properly adjust the three primary factions to be more uniform in difficulty. This has gone un-noticed or ignored for a long time. 

The game is balanced fairly well in normal mode for the low to mid-range playerbase but the content geared specifically at high-end players is wildly unbalanced. It isn't really difficult, it is just padded with bigger numbers. What Steel Path needs is something similar to nightmare modifiers or some other alternate game mechanic that makes gameplay harder.

Some games, like Dungeon Defenders, had endgame specific enemies that would appear only on the highest difficulty. I'm thinking something like that would be most appropriate here too but I don't think it is a reasonable request right now.

[L3512]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Yeah, it was just an idea that contributes to the concept of Easyframe and how it's impossible to have a good fight, and it's super annoying and, I think, a detrimental concept to the flexibility of the modding system, which is the frustrating thing. It's like "Yeah, you equip a certain combination of mods to overpower everything, you're gonna overpower everything".

A couple months ago a MR19 or 20 player asked me how to become more powerful after farming for shedu parts.

So I have a look at their profile and ask some questions and what do I find?

They have Wukong Prime, kuva bramma, kuva nukor, kronen prime with a good riven and correct stance, arcane energize.

Good meta builds all round and access to other frames, so the only answer I could give them is that they have pretty much reached the peak and to enjoy.

There is nothing in the game that they can not do and pretty easily at that.

What I think they were after was in fact knowledge and not power but good luck selling that.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, L3512 said:

A couple months ago a MR19 or 20 player asked me how to become more powerful after farming for shedu parts.

So I have a look at their profile and ask some questions and what do I find?

They have Wukong Prime, kuva bramma, kuva nukor, kronen prime with a good riven and correct stance, arcane energize.

Good meta builds all round and access to other frames, so the only answer I could give them is that they have pretty much reached the peak and to enjoy.

There is nothing in the game that they can not do and pretty easily at that.

What I think they were after was in fact knowledge and not power but good luck selling that.

It’s kind of a different thing to many games, power in Warframe. A player could rocket all the way to the top where sits the golden throne of “I’m gonna kill everything with a sneeze”, and yet they may not have acquired everything or even finished their mastery rank. And it’s kind of like “Well, here I sit; guess I gotta make my own fun while I acquire other things”, assuming that acquiring additional things even is of interest and a player won’t just decide “I’ve won Warframe”. Which to be honest, I would envy their peace of mind 😋

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

The game is balanced fairly well in normal mode for the low to mid-range playerbase but the content geared specifically at high-end players is wildly unbalanced. It isn't really difficult, it is just padded with bigger numbers. What Steel Path needs is something similar to nightmare modifiers or some other alternate game mechanic that makes gameplay harder.

I am a big fan of modifiers. Just recently did a level 20ish shieldless Nightmare Exterminate in the Void as Excalibur while I was leveling some things, and against the Corrupted with their projectile attacks, it was a lot of fun. I failed twice (so close to finishing the first time) and I think it’s moved on since, but I wouldn’t say “no” to different ways to randomly mix up a mission

edit: Although, maybe not shieldless in SP 😅

[Leqesai]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I am a big fan of modifiers. Just recently did a level 20ish shieldless Nightmare Exterminate in the Void as Excalibur while I was leveling some things, and against the Corrupted with their projectile attacks, it was a lot of fun. I failed twice (so close to finishing the first time) and I think it’s moved on since, but I wouldn’t say “no” to different ways to randomly mix up a mission

edit: Although, maybe not shieldless in SP 😅

But shieldless would be real tough in SP 😍

[L3512]

39 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

It’s kind of a different thing to many games, power in Warframe. A player could rocket all the way to the top where sits the golden throne of “I’m gonna kill everything with a sneeze”, and yet they may not have acquired everything or even finished their mastery rank. And it’s kind of like “Well, here I sit; guess I gotta make my own fun while I acquire other things”, assuming that acquiring additional things even is of interest and a player won’t just decide “I’ve won Warframe”. Which to be honest, I would envy their peace of mind 😋

There was the "MR30 test is impossible" thread ages ago, having completed the test I figured it was hyperbole however that player had played for only six months or something crazy.

So I started to wonder, with enough plat and friends to mindlessly boost you, just how quickly someone could get to MR30.

Surely within two months at the most.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, Leqesai said:

But shieldless would be real tough in SP 😍

Haha, it would be brutal. I mean, I’d give it a shot, but I don’t expect that I’d enjoy walking the fine line so closely that instant death is a frame-hitch away; I love Dark Souls, but those armourless/hitless runs that some players do make me go “Hmmm”

[ScytodiDaedalus]

On 2021-09-25 at 3:57 PM, Derethevil said:

Running after this illusion of perfect balance everywhere is nothing but literally chasing a rainbow. 

Yeah, no, nerfing things and buffing things can be good but things have to be nerfed and buffed properly, that happens once every... does it ever happen?

I don't think there would be a perfect balance, but something that is more ideal or close to something that is fair widely accepted by a lot of people is achievable. (But someone has to do it...)
 

On 2021-09-25 at 3:57 PM, Derethevil said:

Bring up his HP completely. Doesn't need to be at Inaros level. But at least somewhere to have some kind of buffer to help prevent unnecessary deaths in situations like Slash procs. 

I agree with this, Chroma's HP needs to be buffed by atleast 15% so that he can hold out some more punishment with how he can or has to be played the way Vex Armor works.

Also allow Chroma to cancel Elemental Ward or allow recasting when switching Wards?

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

Chroma would benefit much more from a base HP increase, because of the slash procs

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Personally Id like for Chroma to be able to cast elemental war multiple times for stacking purposes. Currently you are forced to use one elemental ward buff, and the choice between heat, ice, or electric is most always ice. However, imagine if we could have all 3 active at once, or maybe have 1 fully active and the other 2 active at a reduced rate. 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2021-09-25 at 5:42 PM, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

So, Ive played chroma, inaros, nidus, even grendel and many other tank frames, and the biggest issue isnt Chroma per say, but how his tankiness is administrated. 
 

There are 3 types of tanks in warframe. Armor tanks, like chroma, inaros, and grendel. There are DR tanks like Baruuk, Gauss, and nidus. And there are Ability tanks, like Rhino and Revenant. Of course some offshoots occur, Hildyrn is a shield tank that uses DR, Zephyr is an ability tank that uses bullet redirection, but that is the general trend. 
 

Chroma can gain a ton of armor, and a full build chroma can equal or even surpass an Inaros in EHP, but there is a single status effect especially that cripples armor tanks. Slash. Grendel and Chroma hurt from it the most. Even though they can have very high EHP, slash ignores armor for us like it does enemies, and thus without high DR slash really hurts. Inaros can bypass this due to his tanking being a combo of health and armor tanking, whereas chroma is pure armor tanking. This is also why nidus and Gauss shrug off status like nothing due to the DR they get, while mesa, who reaches 95% dr can die instanty, due to shatter shield not stopping status effects. 
 

Therefore, even buffing Chromas armor scaling wont change anything. He has very high ehp as it stands, but due to slash procs you can die very fast. 
 

that doesnt mean chroma doesnt need help, he does, but I dont see how buffing his EHP alone can fix his issues at hand

Buffing his EHP alone would already make him much better, you can just slap Hideous Resistance on him and you'd have status immunity (btw, this is MUCH better than Spellbind, specially at 300% str, which most chroma builds will have). 

As of now, Chroma EHP with 300% str and a full Umbral set sits at around 33k. Just as an example, Nezha sits at 38k with all umbrals mods and Warding Halo activated, and I'd still have 5 mod slots to work with, while Chroma would have 3. Inaros has more EHP than Chroma, Nidus has more EHP than Chroma, Rhino has more EHP with Iron skin than Chroma (btw Chroma is basically a worse Rhino...). 

Chroma is not even the best for damage anymore, he doesn't have anything going on for him. He seriously needs buffs or a complete rework.

[George_PPS]

Chrome worked fine before the nerf. He was good at being the boss killing DPS and nothing else. After the terrible nerf, he is literally just another abandoned frame no one uses!! DE Please fully restore his signature mechanics and DPS role!!!! 

[Lutesque]

On 2021-10-24 at 8:02 AM, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

Buffing his EHP alone would already make him much better, you can just slap Hideous Resistance on him and you'd have status immunity (btw, this is MUCH better than Spellbind, specially at 300% str, which most chroma builds will have)

I thought Spell Bind was Better...

What's the  Difference between the two anyway ?

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

Chrome worked fine before the nerf. He was good at being the boss killing DPS and nothing else. After the terrible nerf, he is literally just another abandoned frame no one uses!! DE Please fully restore his signature mechanics and DPS role!!!! 

Isn't Chroma still the Number one Choice for Profit Taker ?

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

Chroma rules. His 1 and 4 is trash. 2 and 3 = unstoppable. Damage output is insane. 
Tankiness is insane.

cc is insane.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

9 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What's the  Difference between the two anyway ?

Hideous Resistance works like Mesmer Skin. That means it has no duration, it has stacks. With 300% str you have 30 stacks, that means it can protect you from 30 status procs. 

Much better than Spellbind

 

9 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Isn't Chroma still the Number one Choice for Profit Taker ?

This is due to his credit boost from Effigy. Because technically, Rhino is much better nowadays as a boss killer.

[Lutesque]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

Hideous Resistance works like Mesmer Skin. That means it has no duration, it has stacks. With 300% str you have 30 stacks, that means it can protect you from 30 status procs. 

Much better than Spellbind

Wait... How long is the cool down before the next Stack is removed ? Also is it Recastable ? 🤔

11 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

This is due to his credit boost from Effigy. Because technically, Rhino is much better nowadays as a boss killer.

Yeah but Doesn't Rhino steel Need to keep plus Damage Mods on his weapons for Profit Taker ? 

[Leqesai]

27 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Wait... How long is the cool down before the next Stack is removed ? Also is it Recastable ? 🤔

There is no cooldown. Walking over a shock trap with this active will drain multiple stacks instantly.

It is much better to use something that just gives straight status immunity (fire walker, spell bind) over this ability. IF there were a cooldown between stacks removed it would be viable but you can straight up lose all stacks near instantly if you get thrown into a toxin cloud or get nailed with multiple procs at once. 30 stacks can go down in just a few seconds. Also, self stagger counts against it so you can cause multiple stacks lost per shot if you use something like kuva bramma with multishot (2 projectiles = 2 stacks lost instantly).

Pretty bad ability IMO.

30 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah but Doesn't Rhino steel Need to keep plus Damage Mods on his weapons for Profit Taker ? 

No frame needs +damage buffs for Profit Taker.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, Leqesai said:

No frame needs +damage buffs for Profit Taker

Well yes obviously it's not needed but I was thinking in terms of Practicality Chroma allows you to free up one mod slot on each weapon which gives you room to have multiple Elements on those weapons... 

Technically every frame can do this with vigorous Swap but that only gives you +135% Base Damage while Vex Armor's Fury gives you +700% or more....

[sunderthefirmament]

12 hours ago, Leqesai said:

It is much better to use something that just gives straight status immunity (fire walker, spell bind) over this ability. IF there were a cooldown between stacks removed it would be viable but you can straight up lose all stacks near instantly if you get thrown into a toxin cloud or get nailed with multiple procs at once. 30 stacks can go down in just a few seconds. Also, self stagger counts against it so you can cause multiple stacks lost per shot if you use something like kuva bramma with multishot (2 projectiles = 2 stacks lost instantly).

 

I kind of wish Hideous Resistance and Wyrm's Negate both gave 1-3 seconds of status immunity upon triggering.  Mainly because of arc traps.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I kind of wish Hideous Resistance and Wyrm's Negate both gave 1-3 seconds of status immunity upon triggering.  Mainly because of arc traps.

I got destroyed by one of these things an hour ago 😱 !!!

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I kind of wish Hideous Resistance and Wyrm's Negate both gave 1-3 seconds of status immunity upon triggering.  Mainly because of arc traps.

Yup. Arc traps and toxin clouds are why i dumped the ability. There are other reasons it isnt good, as well, but these were the worst offenders imo. If the base amount of stacks was double or triple where it is right now then i could see using the ability on a few frames, but as it is now the thing isnt worth picking up over duration-based immunity.

[Leqesai]

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well yes obviously it's not needed but I was thinking in terms of Practicality Chroma allows you to free up one mod slot on each weapon which gives you room to have multiple Elements on those weapons... 

Technically every frame can do this with vigorous Swap but that only gives you +135% Base Damage while Vex Armor's Fury gives you +700% or more....

Yep. That's a good point. 

Personally I wouldn't bother because my arch gun one shots the profit taker legs/body without buffs (though not everyone has access to gear like this). Necramechs have made fighting profit taker incredibly easy (more weapons available in a loadout which makes it easier to have 'something' that can damage profit taker's adaptive shield).

[Lutesque]

19 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

 

Personally I wouldn't bother because my arch gun one shots the profit taker legs/body without buffs (though not everyone has access to gear like this). Necramechs have made fighting profit taker incredibly easy (more weapons available in a loadout which makes it easier to have 'something' that can damage profit taker's adaptive shield)

I have yet to try this.... I mean I consider it but haven't tried it yet....