Fix sprint cancel?

[Lutesque]

7 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

May I ask why? What advantage are there to use your own macro over the in-game toggle?

The Macro is more Consistent 😁... 

 

8 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I just want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that plays with a controller that every single ability that you have to hold to charge requires both RB and the ability specific button be held together to charge which greatly limits the ability to aim many of these abilities with the exception of Garuda's 4.

Yeah... It's especially Annoying on Abilities that Require Precise Aim like Gara's Splinter Storm 😱

8 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Garuda's 4 lets you hold RB, tap the ability specific button and then only hold down RB to continue to charge, freeing you up to aim it.

I always found it weird why it was the only Ability that behaved that way 🤔.

8 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

They said recently that reworking and polishing and fixing old content doesn't bring in or retain players so it's pointless for them to work on when they could be pumping out "new" things. 

I suspected as much but I'm surprised to actually here them say that 😲 !!!

 

[quxier]

10 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

And so go on for arcwhing railjack necramech and whatever else you can think of

Like inverted abilities. That could work.

[ZeroX4]

10 minutes ago, quxier said:

Like inverted abilities. That could work.

That would work because 
1 - it gives same option to everyone
2 - benefit ppl that actually will find it useful
3 - dont punish any1 who would not like to use it
4 - by default it could be set to work as what we have now so all radio buttons are set to walk and sprint key is enabling sprinting

I personally am rolling+bullet jumping forward or propelling myself forward while with rolling while im jumping
I dont need that sprint key to do anything else than what it does or even sprint to be active whole time

But if we had these options nothing for me would change who know maybe i even enable always sprint for operator mode
But ppl who feel like that would improve their gameplay could just benefit from it

[(PSN)Unstar]

19 hours ago, sitfesz said:

No, it's not like this so prowl can work and you can't even tell more examples of what would be broken by sprint.

You're not thinking like a game designer.  You can't make a change if you know it breaks something else.  Any game designer worth their salt wouldn't make any changes to auto-sprint until they had also designed and implemented a solution for how this would impact Prowl.  So they're not going to change auto-sprint (which it's worth remembering, is working as it was intended to) until they have a comprehensive solution that doesn't .

And again, I'm all for auto-sprint being changed, because I agree that in it's current state it's frustrating.  But you can't try to make an existing, functioning system better by breaking another existing, functioning system.

[sitfesz]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

You're not thinking like a game designer.  You can't make a change if you know it breaks something else.  Any game designer worth their salt wouldn't make any changes to auto-sprint until they had also designed and implemented a solution for how this would impact Prowl.  So they're not going to change auto-sprint (which it's worth remembering, is working as it was intended to) until they have a comprehensive solution that doesn't .

And again, I'm all for auto-sprint being changed, because I agree that in it's current state it's frustrating.  But you can't try to make an existing, functioning system better by breaking another existing, functioning system.

So you say they rather half-assed everything that currently breaks auto-sprint instead?

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 hour ago, sitfesz said:

So you say they rather half-assed everything that currently breaks auto-sprint instead?

I'm not sure what you mean, can you re-phrase that?

[ZeroX4]

On 2021-09-26 at 11:24 PM, Godmode_Ash said:

May I ask why? What advantage are there to use your own macro over the in-game toggle?

Macro will be always better than in game option
Because you will set it as you want and to what you want and most likely you will have much more option to adjust it to your needs

Look at warframe
I use little tool called AutoHotKey
1st thing i did was disable capslock but that was a waste of a button so now i switched capslock instead of enabling/disabling itself it autohacks consoles i think default key for that was Y or T or whatever you see it on bottom when hacking something PRESS THIS BUTTON to use cipher

Then
Under my thumb on my mouse i have 2 additional buttons
Lets call them XB1 and XB2 when i hold XB1 and press LMB i switch to next song on my playlist when i hold XB1 and press RMB i switch to previous song
(Imagine ALT+TABing each time i want to change song)
When i press XB2 that is where is my secondary fire (feels easier to aim rather than with MMB)
Now best part when i hold that bloody CapsLock and press XB1 it triggers 5th slot from my gearwheel menu XB2 triggers 6th slot which are plasma drill and spear for fishing respectively
But if i hold TAB and press XB1 on RJ it will show me that (i dont remember name) map of RJ where i can teleport to different parts of RJ and use others squad mates abilities
TAB + XB2 is k-drive
TAB + mouse wheel up is necramech while + mouse wheel down its archwing
TAB + CapsLock is archgun (really handy at profit taker)

So as you see using AHK i was able to manage 10 different functions to 4 keys where in most cases they are just key combos
Where in warframe i cant even set same key to 2 functions like why i cant have that use cipher and secondary fire bind to same keyboard key?
I wont ever hack while using secondary fire and i wont ever need secondary fire while hacking console so whats the point?
On top of that keep in mind all keys mentioned above are exactly under my fingers or at least close to them and i dont need to change my hands position to reach them 
Thx to AHK i am bound only to my imagination and not game limitation

Imagine holding XB1 changing your ability buttons (1,2,3,4) to gear wheel slots activators
Imagine holding XB2 button change that 1.2.3.4 buttons to another set of gear wheel slot activators
So in total with 4 keyboard keys and 1 mouse button you control 8 gear wheel slots + 1234 buttons activate your abilities as they should in the 1st place when you are not holding XB1 or XB2

I could go on and on about advantage but i think that speaks for itself
I just want you to understand why even IF game would have option for something its better to use macro

[ZeroX4]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

You're not thinking like a game designer.  You can't make a change if you know it breaks something else.  Any game designer worth their salt wouldn't make any changes to auto-sprint until they had also designed and implemented a solution for how this would impact Prowl.  So they're not going to change auto-sprint (which it's worth remembering, is working as it was intended to) until they have a comprehensive solution that doesn't .

And again, I'm all for auto-sprint being changed, because I agree that in it's current state it's frustrating.  But you can't try to make an existing, functioning system better by breaking another existing, functioning system.

I absolutely agree with you
"we should not ask for change that will fix something for us but break something else for others"

I already proposed simple fix to auto sprint to make it radio buttons in options with choice of always sprint or always walk in different mods (warframe, operator, archwing etc) where sprint key while held would switch to opposite state

I also remember when i 1st time heard music octavias disco ball produce and that was kinda 1st thing i went to look in options and disable and never heard it again

So if we can have specific audio toggle for 1 frame why we could not have same kind of option for other frame in movement section?
Like never auto sprint when ivaras prowl is active while it would be enabled by default

Any other conflicts you can think of?

[sitfesz]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm not sure what you mean, can you re-phrase that?

You said they might made ivara prowl this way, because it was easier for an ability to break auto-sprint, so it can work. Now we have a lot of abilities/activities that break sprint, because they didn't want to come up with a method that reactivates sprint when the walk requirement ends, so they half-assed it back then and now it's a problem on a much bigger scale with more and more stuff breaking auto-sprint.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Macro will be always better than in game option
Because you will set it as you want and to what you want and most likely you will have much more option to adjust it to your needs

The Customization is Oh So Good 😁 !!!

 

[FoxLove]

 

On 2021-09-26 at 7:06 PM, sunderthefirmament said:

• Grendel's 4
• Hildryn's 4
• Hydroid's 3 (and maybe his 2?)
• Inaros' 3 (I think... I don't play a lot of Inaros)
• Ivara's 3
• Lavos' 2
• Revenant's 4
• Titania's 4
• Wisp's 4
• Yareli's 2
• Vehicles (Archwing, Necramech, and K Drive)
• Railjack Guns/Piloting Harnesses
• Ramparts

I did some testing and it yielded interesting results (although, I didn't test Grendel, Hildryn and Wisp. I don't have the first two and I also don't have a single Wisp build with her 4th):

If toggle sprint is off, then warframe abilities do not cancel sprint if you use a dedicated button for it instead of a sprint/roll button. Same goes for Archwing and K-Drive.
If toggle sprint is on, then sprint will always get cancelled, even if you turned it on via sprint button.

Such inconsistencies point to this being a bug one way or the other.

Ivara's 3-rd ability and Necramech seem to be the only two instances where sprint is cancelled differently from the rest. No matter what you do — sprint will get cancelled. In case of Ivara we know that it was intended that way.

Also, Hydroid's 2 and Titania's 4 are not affected by this.

 

On 2021-09-27 at 7:05 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

You're not thinking like a game designer.  You can't make a change if you know it breaks something else.  Any game designer worth their salt wouldn't make any changes to auto-sprint until they had also designed and implemented a solution for how this would impact Prowl.

You're not a game designer (or coder) either. The problem is not with auto-sprint. The problem is that certain actions cancel sprint. It doesn't matter if you're using toggle sprint or not, but it's way more annoying with toggle sprint on. Auto-sprint doesn't affect Ivara's prowl. It's the other way around.

[(PSN)Unstar]

37 minutes ago, FoxLove said:

You're not a game designer (or coder) either.

I am actually both of these things, and the fact that you're saying this suggests that you misinterpreted my post.

[quxier]

10 hours ago, FoxLove said:

If toggle sprint is off, then warframe abilities do not cancel sprint if you use a dedicated button for it instead of a sprint/roll button. Same goes for Archwing and K-Drive.

If I get this right if you have sprint & roll in one button and you hold it for sprint AND frame will turn it off?!

[MajitsuPrime]

On 2021-09-26 at 4:22 PM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I haven't had an issue with this.

Then what are you doing in this thread?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, MajitsuPrime said:

Then what are you doing in this thread?

Voicing my opinion on a public forum. 🤷

[Dreadlox]

I'm not sure, are you a troll or not. But you know bullet jump exist. Operator Void Dash exist, roll exist. Literally all kinds of movement exist. In railjack you can teleport too. I use holding sprint. Toggle only useful when i'm lazy and playing with a controller.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, Dreadlox said:

I'm not sure, are you a troll or not. But you know bullet jump exist. Operator Void Dash exist, roll exist. Literally all kinds of movement exist. In railjack you can teleport too. I use holding sprint. Toggle only useful when i'm lazy and playing with a controller.

So even you use it then.... and yet you don't see where OP is coming from ? 😱

[FoxLove]

15 hours ago, quxier said:

If I get this right if you have sprint & roll in one button and you hold it for sprint AND frame will turn it off?!

I was a bit too specific. I'll rephrase:

Having "toggle sprint" off and using a dedicated sprint button are the only conditions under which this bug doesn't present itself. I.e. sprint won't get cancelled by certain abilities, switching to archwing etc

 

On 2021-09-30 at 5:31 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

the fact that you're saying this suggests that you misinterpreted my post.

I fail to see how you connect those two things.

Okay, "don't break something by fixing something else". Nothing wrong with that. I was not disagreeing with that part. What I was disagreeing with is you saying that auto-sprint is somehow different from sprint and that fixing sprint cancelling would require a rewrite of the whole "system". In my opinion, a programmer should be able to see that the problem is a tad bit more localised.

I also showed that it is not working as intended.

[quxier]

8 hours ago, Dreadlox said:

I'm not sure, are you a troll or not. But you know bullet jump exist. Operator Void Dash exist, roll exist. Literally all kinds of movement exist. In railjack you can teleport too. I use holding sprint. Toggle only useful when i'm lazy and playing with a controller.

BJ rams you into walls, Spoiler mode may be not unlocked and has limitations. And rolls prevents you from reloading and shooting.

I guess when you have to type e.g. 250 words uppercase you don't mind holding Shift (or whatever button you have on your device) ALL THE TIME? To cite you: I'm not sure if you are troll or not.

5 hours ago, FoxLove said:

Having "toggle sprint" on and using a dedicated sprint button are the only conditions under which this bug doesn't present itself. I.e. sprint won't get cancelled by certain abilities, switching to archwing etc

I have the "toggle sprint" on AND sprint button set (to Capslock) and sprint still get canceled (e.g. Lavos' Vial rush). I think you mean "toggle sprint" off.

That being said, I don't think it's something unusual. When you hold key to do certain action, game will check if you are holding the key many times*. On other hand pressing a key to toggle something (e.g. sprint) is "checked" once and some setting is set to some value (e.g. on or off). Then that value is checked many times.

* there are other ways but it's out of scope of this topic. I don't want to bore people.

 

[FoxLove]

18 minutes ago, quxier said:

I think you mean "toggle sprint" off.

Sorry. Typo. Ofc I meant off. Picture shows it.

[MajitsuPrime]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Voicing my opinion on a public forum. 🤷

To block a possible improvement of movement flow in game because *you* absolutely love to spam left stick. Makes sense.

Anyway, thanks for letting everyone know you have no problem with this. That's -1 for this suggestion. Have a great weekend.

[iPathos]

On 2021-09-27 at 3:22 AM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I haven't had an issue with this. I have toggle on so I press it again and it works just fine.

As many have already said, the constant need to re-enable sprint when toggle should switch your "default movement option" rather than your "current movement option". It's a pointless and nitpicky failure to address the very basics of mobility in a game very heavily centered around mobility.

It has nothing to do with the perceived ease of activation, but the fact you have to do it again and again without even beginning to think that the aforementioned would be a simpler solution. Think using something like "caps lock" for sprinting in a game like Morrowind - proper toggle with the exact function the name implies.

[BahamutKaiser]

Yeah, I don't play Lavos for the same reason too, frames that don't rotate into walking constantly might not be as irritating, but I don't even know why walking exists, I'd like a walk key, not a sprint key.