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Will DE ever go back and polish/rework old Warframes?


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THE PRESENT SITUATION

   Ok I know DE is really crunching down on the New War so they can release it before the end of the year, but what comes next after the New War? The Duviri Paradox? Its already been hinted that  The Duviri Paradox is very far away, so what will they do between the New War and The Duviri Paradox. Well they'll obviously release new frames, maybe a mini-mainline update for one of them like they did with Gauss and The Saint of Ultra update. So why not go back and make some older frames, well, good.

DEVSTREAM 157

During the recent devstream, DE revealed that Nyx is getting tweaks. I know Nyx players have their own thoughts on that matter, but Nyx was also tweaked/"reworked" along with Titania in the past. And it put both the frames in a better spot than they were before at that point in time. I know Nyx needed just a little bit more of a touch up, but of all the frames to tweak in the modern era of Warframe, why was it Nyx? It could have been because of that "exploit" some players aren't happy about being gone, but what about older frames that are in dire need of a touch up, or dare I say, an entire rework? Hell Vauban and Ember got full on reworks about 2 years ago and it made them infinitely more viable and fun to play. With that said, why are other old frames just simply forgotten about???
 

SOME “LETHARGIC” FRAMES

Some worthy mentions are Chroma, Hydroid, Frost, Loki, Inaros, hell even Trinity since frames like her are apart of a by gone era. Chroma is just his 2 and his 3 and his new passive doesn't impact his gameplay in the slightest, Hydroid is hydroid, Frost is only made for defense with his 3 and 4 being his only viable abilities, Loki is outshined by any frame that can go invisible and the only thing keeping him up is Radial Disarm and maybe his decoy since that has some niche uses, Inaros is bland like his theme, sand, and support frames like Trinity have no practical use outside of very specific situations like eidolon hunting since many mods and arcanes can already heal us enough/provide plenty of survivability, and Wisp is hands down the best support frame in the game at the moment. I know there's other frames I didn't mention that could probably use a little polishing, but this topic is somewhat subjective. However, old frames with lower amounts of play time should be looked at regardless.
 

MODERN WARFRAMES

Most modern frames that have been graced by Pablo's hand can fit almost every role in the game. It's criminal that old content in general is left behind to collect dust. There is an argument that reworking old frames won't be as profitable as making new ones, which is fair to an extent.
 

ZEPHYR’S MONETARY REWORK 

When Zephry was changed, it was looking to be really good (which it was), but DE was working on Zephyr deluxe. So now that Zephyr was going to be viable, AND she was getting a really cool skin, there was now an great chance that both the frame and skin would be bought, making DE some money. But won't reworking old frames make their play time go up? People would get invested in them again, maybe use plat on them, and would directly increase play time on the game in general which DE still makes money off of. 
 

CONCLUSION

Now I know some people will say "Well X frame can do Y pretty well," which in some cases is true, but that's not the point. The point is that modern frames do almost every job exponentially better. I'm not bashing DE, I love the company and I love the game they have spent so much time on. I even love the old frames I mentioned prior. But when I play them, I always know in the back of my mind that there is a frame that can do what they do better who might even have the same theme, which isn't all that bad, but I think it may be time to go back and make some older frames shine again once DE is done with the New War. 

Edited by Acquardio_
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1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Warframes get polished and reworked all the time, though you seem to realize this because you've mentioned a half-dozen reworks in your post.  If your Warframes haven't been reworked yet, just wait and it will probably happen eventually.

Confirmation from DE would be swell since they tend to ignore this subject outside of other frames they've looked back on. It took years for the Vauban and Ember reworks to become a thing for example. 

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It was mentioned during tennocon by Pablo that they had no real plans to look at older frames any time soon

Nyx's changes are hardly changes one of them is just adding her augment to the base ability and the other is giving back something we could do when the augment was first released but was deemed "not working as intended"

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punctuations is very important in getting your message across.

it's not petty, if you want your posts to be treated with respect, then you'll also have to respect others.
making your posts easier to read by putting correct punctuations is the barebones of said respectful behavior.

respecting advices from senior residents who knows how things works around these parts is the other thing.
anyone go to any neighborhood and start disrespecting the locals, they ain't gonna make it far, chico.

===========

on topic, pablo already said that reworking warframes doesn't do meaningful changes to use rate / business side of the videogame. so they will refrain themselves from putting too much or any efforts into such works.

Edited by Soy77
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3 hours ago, Soy77 said:

on topic, pablo already said that reworking warframes doesn't do meaningful changes to use rate / business side of the videogame. so they will refrain themselves from putting too much or any efforts into such works.

Which is a pathetic way for DE to look at their product, they are not even using the "if its not broken don't fix it", they are going with "stupid suckers going to buy it as is anyways so why bother"

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5 minutes ago, minininja77 said:

Which is a pathetic way for DE to look at their product, they are not even using the "if its not broken don't fix it", they are going with "stupid suckers going to buy it as is anyways so why bother"

I’d expect their product is entertainment, so if they’re looking at it through that lens, I’m not sure it’s an unreasonable decision to make. Are people entertained by the options? Don’t fix what’s not broke 👍 

🤔 Though some players aren’t entertained because they’re not playing a game anyways. Not sure what they’d fix about that aside from forcing players to play

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56 minutes ago, minininja77 said:

Which is a pathetic way for DE to look at their product, they are not even using the "if its not broken don't fix it", they are going with "stupid suckers going to buy it as is anyways so why bother"

if you see warframe like a fighting game, then yeah the balances are all off. some frames are way more useful than some others. a fighting game sure need to have all characters as balanced as possible. 

but if you see warframe as a GaaS, it is what happening all the time everywhere in many videogames: new heroes comes with more interesting mechanics than the old ones, game devs need to keep making bigger and better heroes to keep playerbase logging in, so newer heroes almost always better, while older heroes getting slowly abandoned unless certain strategy/meta in the game happen to involve them.
when seen from that point of view, no frames are broken. anyone can still perfectly use hydroid or grendel and win missions. no suckers are forced to buy any frames. if anything, they're buying the newer and better frames.

 

what players need to understand is: the number of frames is not limited.
as long as the game exist, new frames will continue be introduced, infinitely.
by the sheer numbers alone, as you can imagine at one point it will be impossible to balance all frames to be useful, some of them will inevitably be useless.

just see pokemons. old pokemons are birds, critters, toads, and lizards.
but because nintendo need to keep making bigger and better pokemons, among the newer pokemons are literally a god.

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They never said that they won't. Just that they have no current plans to.

Reworking frames has always been an issue as you end up with conflicts between players who like how the frame currently is vs players who dislike said frame. Plus the core issue they pointed out was that they don't change player usages enough for them to be worthwhile alone.

After all if spending the time to rework a frame doesn't cause players to actually use them then what was the purpose of said rework? And if it does make other players pick up the frame is that worth "ruining" the frame for those who preferred their old functions?

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4 hours ago, minininja77 said:

Which is a pathetic way for DE to look at their product, they are not even using the "if its not broken don't fix it", they are going with "stupid suckers going to buy it as is anyways so why bother"

I think that's a little cynical.

First of all a lot of people are misinterpreting Pablo. He didn't say never, he said it's basically a low priority if you read the context closer. Zephyr was touched up recently, they did it with a skin to maximize sale potential. Nyx is getting a few updates soon. 

The point is updating old warframes, and this is reasonable considering how many they are, is becoming more a thing of "how can we touchup this frame WITHOUT asking Geoff's department to get involved, even a little bit, if we possible can", and "how can we explain this to the investors by either keep the changes small in terms of needing animation to get involved, using some kind of skin or other thing to promote it to make money along with it, or both?". 

No one is trying to treat you like a sucker, but business does require business related decisions. 

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5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think that's a little cynical

Maybe, but its also not far from the truth

 

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

First of all a lot of people are misinterpreting Pablo. He didn't say never, he said it's basically a low priority if you read the context closer

I watched the stream, he was pretty clear on where he stood on the older frames and the reason not to address them.

 

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Nyx is getting a few updates soon

One of my favorite frames (no joke) but not really a update one is just adding her augment to the base ability and the other is giving us the "roll" back that was there when the augment first came out but was taken away due to "not working as intended"

 

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The point is updating old warframes, and this is reasonable considering how many they are, is becoming more a thing of "how can we touchup this frame WITHOUT asking Geoff's department to get involved, even a little bit, if we possible can", and "how can we explain this to the investors by either keep the changes small in terms of needing animation to get involved, using some kind of skin or other thing to promote it to make money along with it, or both?"

I understand what goes into the development, what I do for a living is not far off from what Geoff does and its time consuming. The thing is not every change to frames would require animation changes, Trinity for instance could benefit from some longer duration on her abilities as it may have been fine at the time but the base times would be laughed at now on a new frame. Frost, Inaros, Valkyr (disclaimer before someone loses their crap not stating one way or another those 3 need changes just pointing out changes to them would most likely require animation changes) on the other hand would more than likely need to visit Geoff's team.

 

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

No one is trying to treat you like a sucker, but business does require business related decisions

Sadly the MR system allows for the "sucker" treatment people get hooked on it and will get the frames regardless of the state they are in

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16 hours ago, Soy77 said:

punctuations is very important in getting your message across.

it's not petty, if you want your posts to be treated with respect, then you'll also have to respect others.
making your posts easier to read by putting correct punctuations is the barebones of said respectful behavior.

respecting advices from senior residents who knows how things works around these parts is the other thing.
anyone go to any neighborhood and start disrespecting the locals, they ain't gonna make it far, chico.

Ok fair but vet or not, they don't have to express disliking the format in twitter speak instead of just critiquing it, I'll organize the post later.

Edited by Acquardio_
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On 2021-10-01 at 3:42 AM, Soy77 said:

anyone can still perfectly use hydroid or grendel and win missions.

It’s not about whether they are usable or not. Yes it’s true that you can run any frame based on what your doing and get some type of value out of it. But some frames are complete dimensions below others while having pretty boring and impractical parts of their kits. 
 

It’s abundantly clear that balancing all of the warframes is impossible, but older, lackluster frames should be tweaked to be both more fun and viable.

And it certainly doesn’t help that damage is king above all in the game.

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9 hours ago, Acquardio_ said:

It’s not about whether they are usable or not. Yes it’s true that you can run any frame based on what your doing and get some type of value out of it. But some frames are complete dimensions below others while having pretty boring and impractical parts of their kits. 
 

It’s abundantly clear that balancing all of the warframes is impossible, but older, lackluster frames should be tweaked to be both more fun and viable.

And it certainly doesn’t help that damage is king above all in the game.

exactly what i said.

newer frames will keep pushing the boundaries because that's how our world works; new smartphones are better than the old ones, new cars are better than the old ones, new everything will almost certainly better than the old everything.
and yes older frames will get left out. from damage perspective, and from fun perspective.

people who demands reworks to older frames need to understand that warframe is a timeline that keeps moving forward. it's different from conservative videogames that got finished at one point and stays at that one point in time, probably just get some dlc updates couple of times in its future. 
The Last of Us is the best game of 2013, but it stays on 2013. Zelda Breath of the Wild is the best game of 2017, but it stays on 2017. warframe does not a dot that stays at one point in time, it is a line that keeps getting longer with time pass.

yeah new stuff will perform better than the old stuff. deimos syndicate system is better than cetus and fortuna. modern tennogen items looks better than the old ones. that's how our world works when we're not stuck at one point in time.

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16 hours ago, Soy77 said:

newer frames will keep pushing the boundaries because that's how our world works; new smartphones are better than the old ones, new cars are better than the old ones, new everything will almost certainly better than the old everything.

Not sure why you would compare video game characters to real life things but I get the point you’re trying to make. (The game constantly moving forward)

 

16 hours ago, Soy77 said:

warframe is a timeline that keeps moving forward. it's different from conservative videogames that got finished at one point and stays at that one point in time, probably just get some dlc updates couple of times in its future. 

Yes the newer content in theory is supposed to be better. But there have been plenty of occasions where new content has either released in a lackluster, or even an unplayable state with both warframes and mainline updates included. The biggest one off of the top of my head being railjack. DE went back and tweaked railjack numerous times and it’s probably the least played game mode in the game. 
 

Now railjack is not something DE fixed immediately, they did it over time. Even after it wasn’t the newest form of content in the game. So if they can spend resources doing that, why not go polish older content and warframes?? It just so confusing. I’m not gonna freak out if they don’t tweak older warframes immediately, but continuing to ignore them isn’t the best feeling either. But hey their plans might change in the future, especially if they release another Yareli.

16 hours ago, Soy77 said:

yeah new stuff will perform better than the old stuff. deimos syndicate system is better than cetus and fortuna. modern tennogen items looks better than the old ones.

The open world syndicates were never the best systems to begin with, but they did get better over time.

16 hours ago, Soy77 said:
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