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Nidus Prime vs Lore


ZeroX4
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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Just something worth bringing up

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No I'm not saying regular came first just saying It shows a regular Excalibur so that already proves that Regular warframes were around back in the war. In case anyone, not targeted at you, was asking themselves if primes were the only ones around Orokin times

My guy I am the one saying the waters there are murky.  Things like this are exactly why I'm saying the answers aren't clear cut.  There's too much that has changed in the game, too many things have been retconned.  Talk to the other guy that thinks a promo from 2014 still holds water even after the release of the Sacrifice and things like the Leverian.  Like, I'll take back that they never stated what was what, but that doesn't give us any clear answers now.  I mean, Valkyr Prime was released 2 years after that promo and directly contradicts the existing Valkyr lore by having the same tainted move set in her prime form.  

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19 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

One, that is from 2014 and they have retconned a LOT in the last 7 years.

Two, other information and lore has been introduced in various parts of the game that could potentially contradict that statement made in 2014.  It has already been discussed in this thread.

Given those things, saying the waters are murky isn't really misinformation.  It's saying that it's not clear what does and doesn't apply at this point.  There's been a whole discussion regarding why certain frames like Valkyr Prime have the same abilities as the allegedly altered-through-torture non-prime version of her.  Information no longer completely meshes and gives clear answers, so no, a promo from 7 years ago doesn't clear anything up lol.

Once people are willing to doubt official statements from developers, anything can be true. 

Current FAQ says:
A Prime Warframe, weapon, Sentinel or accessory represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era. A Prime Warframe will often have additional Polarity Slots compared to the non-Prime version, and Prime weapons will boast superior performance or other advantages against their counterparts. Due to its rarity, Prime technology is coveted throughout the Origin System.

That is basically the same thing as from the 7 years old post, only different wording.
Prime warframe is a warframe of Orokin Era. Period. 

When Prime is released we usually get a trailer, where Ballas explains his creation. Why? Because he personally created that prime warframe.

I am honestly baffled by this. There is nothing murky about that.

The Valkyr that Salad V captured was just one Valkyr. The wikipedia entry is pure conjecture with no in-game sources.

The facts are as explicit as they possible can be. If people want to doubt the fact, they are welcome to do so, but then they are factually wrong.

Edited by Cerikus
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12 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Prime warframe is a warframe of Orokin Era.

And yet the Nidus we get from The Glast Gambit is stated to be an Old War relic, meaning it was a warframe that was also representative of the tech at the height of the Orokin Era because it was literally a Nidus or maybe the Nidus made by the Orokin during the Old War.  

Funny how the devs say both what you listed and also what I listed and you're only listening to half of it.  I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm saying they have muddied the waters and you just want to feel superior and talk down to everyone.  You seriously come in here with your "I don't know how all of you can be this stupid" and expect literally anyone to listen to you when you're not even providing explanations for all the rest of the things that make the subject unclear.

If it's all so crystal clear then answer all the unknowns brought up in this thread with statements made by the devs.  Explain all the questions people have with actual lore and sources or admit that there is a clarity issue.

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I think it's the other way around; "regular" WF's are imperfect copies or mass-produced "streamlined" versions after Primes rather than prototypes. After all, Excalibur Prime's codex entry refers to him as the first WF. This means Excalibur did not exist before Excalibur Prime.

It could still be a possibility. Prototypes are often not counted as being the first of the product ever produced.

For example, Space shuttle Columbia is credited as the first space shuttle ever produced, where as the prototype before it (Space shuttle enterprise) is not despite being created and tested before Colombia.

Prototypes are just templates to base what's to be the final product off of, usually the final product is counted as somthing completely different.

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56 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

One, that is from 2014 and they have retconned a LOT in the last 7 years.

Two, other information and lore has been introduced in various parts of the game that could potentially contradict that statement made in 2014.  It has already been discussed in this thread.

Given those things, saying the waters are murky isn't really misinformation.  It's saying that it's not clear what does and doesn't apply at this point.  There's been a whole discussion regarding why certain frames like Valkyr Prime have the same abilities as the allegedly altered-through-torture non-prime version of her.  Information no longer completely meshes and gives clear answers, so no, a promo from 7 years ago doesn't clear anything up lol.

Honestly? I think it's more of a case-by-case basis.

Logically speaking, the Orokin making cheap anything just doesn't make sense to me. As we've seen with cinematics, even their Grineer soldiers were all primed, and they were just basic cannon-fodder. It seems much more likely that maybe a few Warframes here or there were made before their Prime (Titania seems to have been made before her Prime, but again, that's assuming all Titania's are just one entity), but I feel it's safe to say most weren't just due to how the Orokin operate. Everything was gold, everything was expensive, everything was flashy. The exceptions could always be from a different faction (like Rell's followers), but it being directly from the Orokin? I'm not buying that.

The main problem with basic Warframes being before Primes is that implies the Orokin were okay with sending out an ugly, imperfect product to deal with insurgents, the Sentients and any other problem they'd have to assert their authority on. The Tenno made most of their current tech by shoddily replicating Orokin tech anyways, so why would they make inferior versions when the superior versions are right there? Us, the hoarders and scavengers? I just don't see it. I believe we replicated most of the Warframes and other Tenno tech once we lost access to most of the Orokin and their tech, after we killed the Seven. So we were essentially forced to use what we had on hand to fight back, which is why a lot of the cinematics show Prime Warframes in the Old War and regular Warframes during our rebellion and the fall of the Orokin.

Again, that doesn't mean I agree that regular Warframes were made before their Primes in general, but who's to say regular AND Primes were around during that time? We already know that Warframes came towards the end of the Old War after other options like the Necramechs failed, and that once we won we pretty much almost instantly killed the Seven, so I doubt there was that big of a time gap.

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23 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

And yet the Nidus we get from The Glast Gambit is stated to be an Old War relic, meaning it was a warframe that was also representative of the tech at the height of the Orokin Era because it was literally a Nidus or maybe the Nidus made by the Orokin during the Old War.  

Funny how the devs say both what you listed and also what I listed and you're only listening to half of it.  I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm saying they have muddied the waters and you just want to feel superior and talk down to everyone.  You seriously come in here with your "I don't know how all of you can be this stupid" and expect literally anyone to listen to you when you're not even providing explanations for all the rest of the things that make the subject unclear.

If it's all so crystal clear then answer all the unknowns brought up in this thread with statements made by the devs.  Explain all the questions people have with actual lore and sources or admit that there is a clarity issue.

As I stated in the previous post.
Orokin made Prime warframes.
Tenno made regular warframes. During old war and even after it concluded.
All we know about the Myconian colony Nidus is:

"Their ancestral understanding of the Infestation comes from an Old War relic. A relic that I know, will be of extreme interest to you. Return the Triuna, and the relic will be yours. Fair compensation for the risk."

There are 2 possibilities and I really don't care which one it is.
1) either it is a Nidus Prime and we just get the "cheap" copy that Tenno are capable of making, since we have no way to replicate Orokin Technology. (only imitate it)
2) it is just a regular Nidus some Tenno had and Myconians found it somewhere.

Both of these explain how Nidus Prime is NOT problematic with the lore.

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Titania seems to have been made before her Prime, but again, that's assuming all Titania's are just one entity

I see what you're saying, and I'm not even trying to make the hard argument that primes weren't the originals.  But the section I quoted and all the other things I've brought up, like regular Nidus specifically being Old War era, don't mesh.  It paints a very unclear picture, I think DE knows it's unclear and I think the people in the thread saying "game concession" and "it's all money" have a point as well, though that's not the train I'm on because I'm more interested in discussing the game in this particular thread and not DE's shortcomings.

I mean you make a solid point with the fact that the Orokin were a gaudy bunch, but they also made the standard infested to use for combat against the sentients, and they are not pretty.  Even the sentients themselves aren't really gilded and flashy.  I can certainly see them making primes, getting desperate and making more mass produced copies later (do we even have a canonical answer to if the Orokin era specifically had multiple operators using the same frame type?) or something along those lines. 

I can also see them prototyping the frames with regular versions and then priming them as someone else suggested, though I'm not going to assert that it's fact like they did.  Even the link that dude posted to the old promo states that was the tech at the height of the Orokin Era.  Stands to reason that they could have also made the regular frames and just not considered them the pinnacle because they weren't.  They weren't state of the art or the height of current tech.  That meshes better with things like Nidus (but not Valk) far better than just coming in a yelling about how everyone is dumb because they aren't taking a promo from 2014 as current gospel.

 

4 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Orokin made Prime warframes.

Never refuted that.

 

6 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Tenno made regular warframes. During old war and even after it concluded.

You're asserting this based on a promo from 2014.  Operators weren't even a thing when that was released when that was stated.  The lore has changed.

 

8 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

since we have no way to replicate Orokin Technology.

And yet we replicate it every time we use a blueprint to make a prime part.  Do you not know how blueprints work?  

You made up your own answer for the issue of Nidus instead of citing sources and haven't discussed any of the lack of clarity revolving around Harrow, Titania, Valkyr and Eventually Revenant.  What about if the game runs long enough for us to eventually get Xaku Prime?  It's not clear.  Maybe it was when there were like 4 prime frames and no vault for them to get locked up in, but it's not anymore.

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DE doesn't care about lore. DE logic is well, that's not the original batman, that is... the skeletonized batman that got killed off but came back with a supervillain who could bring people back from the dead. He then traveled the river styx and somehow found himself in norse mythology where he fought the serpent jormungandr. That's how he lost his arm and looks all roughed up. So that's how we got this undead, skeletor, greek, nordic batman with one arm. :D

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You're asserting this based on a promo from 2014.  Operators weren't even a thing when that was released when that was stated.  The lore has changed.

When game developer says "xyz" and never withdraws that information, yes, I am considering it true. 

Rhino Prime was released on March 5th, 2014 and his codex entry is true to this day.
Four years later lore of sacrifice quest was not a surprise to me.
Go and read Ember prime codex entry from November 20th, 2013. They already knew that operators are a thing.
Please don't act like operators weren't a thing that they had in mind since the begining.

The lore has not changed.

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

And yet we replicate it every time we use a blueprint to make a prime part.  Do you not know how blueprints work?  

We don't. We build it based on the bp and then the bp is gone. Guns and melees are even mostly real parts and not bps.

But you can just go into the market and make 9000 copies of Rhino bps.

Ok let me use my last 2 brain cells and explain all other Warframes.

Harrow Prime - Probably Ballas created him. When other Tenno went into cryosleep, Rell took his Harrow non-primed warframe and went into the Red veil temple.
Titania Prime - Silvana created her. The story of silver grove is the story of first Titania Prime. We are just able to build a non prime copy or get the Prime from relics.
Revenant Prime - Probably Ballas created him. The story of Revenant is the story of the first Revenant Prime. We are just able to build a non prime copy.
Valkyr Prime - Ballas created her. The Valkyr Alad captured is a Tenno that got waken up before us. We are just able to build a non prime copy or get the Prime from relics.
Xaku 
Prime - Probably Ballas created them from parts of lost warframes. We are just able to build a non prime copy.

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42 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Harrow Prime - Probably

You're off to a great start with those citations and hard facts, huh?  You don't have any actual hard sources for the answers to the uncertainty present in this discussion, just like I said you didn't.

 

44 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

The story of silver grove is the story of first Titania Prime.

And yet we get a regular Titania BP from the quest and I'm pretty sure you don't have a source for that quest being about the Prime either.

 

45 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Revenant Prime - Probably Ballas created him. The story of Revenant is the story of the first Revenant Prime. We are just able to build a non prime copy.

Not only are you at it again with the speculation instead of hard sources, you don't even seem to understand the issue we're discussing.  Probably because you came in all high and mighty with your condescending attitude and tried to talk down to everyone instead of reading the discussion you inserted yourself into.  Revenant exists in the form he does because he has been tainted by the Eidolons. 

"He's become an anchor for the Eidolon - to pull itself onto our world!" 
"By the Unum, you've done it! The lost one is reborn, made Revenant. A Warframe, infused with the powers of an Eidolon!"

That's actual game dialogue, and what a hard source actually looks like.  The frame we have cannot exist as he does in a prime form because the frame we have has been tainted, per the game.  A prime in the sense that we are discussing them, being the original form made by the Orokin would not have the Eidolon infusion.  Yet I will bet you $100 to the charity of your choice that if we get to Revenant Prime's general release date they will release him as is in a prime form without changing anything about the kit or even offering an explanation just like they did with Valkyr.

 

53 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Valkyr Prime - Ballas created her. The Valkyr Alad captured is a Tenno that got waken up before us. We are just able to build a non prime copy or get the Prime from relics.

You're just phoning it in now.  I don't know how to explain the discrepancy here any clearer.  The game says Valkyr has the abilities she does because she was driven mad by torture.  Her prime should not have those abilities except for the fact that they retconned it with the Prime trailer to say she was totally always a berserker frame.  There's some nice evidence of the retconning present for you and why I'm not taking your single citation from 2014 seriously.

 

56 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Xaku Prime - Probably Ballas created them from parts of lost warframes. We are just able to build a non prime copy.

You just going to copy and paste the same answer on all these?  Xaku is made up of several different, distinct warframes.  They are clearly broken and just jumbled together haphazardly.  How do you have a prime version of something made out of spare parts?  Prime heavily insinuates if not outright demands that the "prime" in question is assembled that way on purpose, the way you can build a shelf from a blueprint, or assemble a ramshackle shelf out of whatever you can get to stick together to serve as a shelf.  Shelf Prime is not made from spare parts.  Xaku is.  How do you have a prime made from spare parts?  Are we going to identify the frames used in Xaku's creation and then use prime versions of those to build a ramshackle prime?  Why not just re-build the original Primes themselves instead?  You literally just put the same no-citation non-answer as your response to all of these because you are wrong and you know you are wrong.

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5 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Im not into warframe lore and i know next to nothing about it and from that fact my question is born

When i was new to warframe idk if i even was mr10 i had a guy in clan talking with other guy about prime warframes
And i asked would it happen that every single warframe will ever get primed version?
And he answered that some wont like for example nidus and i asked why? And he said because it would be not lore wise correct

And well now we have nidus prime and i wonder was he wrong about that lore part?
What he was talking about?
Or in fact nidus prime according to lore should not exist?
 

He was very wrong about that lore part. All warframes are infested. Nidus is just infested in the outside too. Nothing makes him different, there’s nothing stopping a creator from welding golden bits to anything, Nidus or any other infested warframe is no exception.

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hace 5 horas, Kerberos-3 dijo:

Not the only two. Harrow and Protea conflict with Lore due to them being unique one-offs, while Xaku and yes, Nidus also break lore for the same reasons as Revenant and Valkyr. As a matter of fact, Xaku's "Prime" by lore should be three different Warframes, each bearing one of the abilities that make up The Lost.

Harrow, Protea, Xaku and Nidus could have got their prime version since their abilities didnt relied on events outside the Orokin times while Revenant and Valkyr cannot because in theory their abilities come from points after the Orokin times.

hace 5 horas, ZeroX4 dijo:

None of that explains anything

So like back then (that was like 4-5 years ago) my clan mate was in fact right?

And if yes then why nidus could not have prime? And better question why he can now?

Sorry for awnsering so late but  your mate could've been reffering to what I was too, being "the infestation is unable to create gold or pretty forms for that matter" but after the Sacrifice we learned that the warframes are basically infested orokin soldiers so one theory that I support nowadays is that the non-prime versions are the original ones and after testing the strenght or viability of the frame, the Orokin decided to upgrade those who succeed.

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Non-primmable frames (Nidus, Revenant, Xaku, etc) exist on top of a lore consistency and is a non-canon prime warframe solely made just for them to have a prime version since let's be honest, if we were strictly following the lore they wouldn't be having their prime versions and Nidus, Revenant, Xaku, and any other of these frames "mains" would be dead pissed. So yeah. It's just another variant. 

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6 hours ago, AzureScion said:

Non-primmable frames (Nidus, Revenant, Xaku, etc) exist on top of a lore consistency and is a non-canon prime warframe solely made just for them to have a prime version since let's be honest, if we were strictly following the lore they wouldn't be having their prime versions and Nidus, Revenant, Xaku, and any other of these frames "mains" would be dead pissed. So yeah. It's just another variant. 

Except there aren't any frames that are not primable. Nidus is a given, nothing is actually stopping Xaku, and you can very easily explain Revenant if need be.

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13 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Slight issue with that. Valkyr's toolkit came from what she suffered at the hands of Alad. Hysteria is something she developed on her own, while Ripline, Paralysis, and possibly Warcry are just modified from extant Corpus tech. Valkyr Prime's abilities would have to be completely different for them to be lore friendly, which they aren't.

Headcanon is headcanon. You need to realize that the frame captured by Alad was either a prime in a gersemi skin, or a tenno frame in gersemi skin (or gersemi being the natural look of tennovalks). For the corpus to actually have a mental effect on the actual frame it would have to be one that pre-dates the frames, which is near impossible since Alad captured the Valk fairly recently in the lore of the game. So that thing that got tortured on a mental level could have possibly been the tenno inside, that possibly just like our tenno isnt aware of it being a seperate thing from the actual frame.

Also, neither Harrow nor Protea conflicts with the prime lore. Protea is a specter and Harrow is just an old tennoframe.

There is really only a single frame that cannot have a frame that is exactly as the tennoframe and that is Revenant.

Regarding Nidus, people just dont get it that the special strain the colony has stumbled on is Helminth from a Nidus. Which means it acts differently than what it would if say the colony got it from an "old war relic" that was a part of Rhino, Nyx, Loki or something else. Nidus isnt infested, Nidus is "infested", he is designed by the Orokin to "wield" the Helminth strain in a way that is similar to the other infestation strains, since they obviously thought it was a good idea when it could actually be controlled. The infestation itself spells it out to us that we are their/its kin and that they cannot "infect" us, they want us to join them willingly. Which means your idea in your other post about how the infestation merged with a frame is highly improbable to say the least since frames are immune to the infestation.

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7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

With a little bit of Retcon, anything is possible!

Exactly. Everything will be consistent with retcon. Things has already been to retcon for it to make sense. Most of the argument here is from people who are still considering pre-retcon lore as true VS people who aren't. 

Doesn't mean that reliance on Retcon is a good/bad thing but if things is already retcon, then whatever it was before the retcon should no longer be considered lore-accurate.

I'm going back to waiting for my Revenant Prime. 

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On 2021-09-26 at 2:38 PM, ZeroX4 said:

And well now we have nidus prime and i wonder was he wrong about that lore part?
What he was talking about?
Or in fact nidus prime according to lore should not exist?

There is no issue with Nidus Prime. All warframes will have a Prime variant come out. If there are prevalent questions about the lore (as there were for Nidus), then DE may clarify some details when they release it (as they did with the Nidus Prime trailer). It's true that there's not a simple explanation for Nidus Prime, so your clanmate thought that it didn't make sense. But he's wrong to say that according to lore there should be no Nidus Prime.

On 2021-09-26 at 3:20 PM, Kerberos-3 said:

Slight issue with that. Valkyr's toolkit came from what she suffered at the hands of Alad. Hysteria is something she developed on her own, while Ripline, Paralysis, and possibly Warcry are just modified from extant Corpus tech. Valkyr Prime's abilities would have to be completely different for them to be lore friendly, which they aren't.

This is speculation. There's no reason Valkyr's original abilities couldn't have been the abilities we know, in which case there is no lore conflict.

On 2021-09-26 at 3:22 PM, Kerberos-3 said:

Protea conflict with Lore due to them being unique one-offs

Not necessarily true. Protea was built specifically for Parvos Granum ("Legend says", according to Biz, so even that may not be true), but the Orokin could have produced a Protea Prime afterwards, having seen Protea in action with Parvos.

On 2021-09-26 at 3:26 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Primes are, as far as I am aware, supposed to represent the "pure" original Orokin version of a frame.  I don't think this is every directly hard confirmed by DE, and I am aware of many differing theories on what primes represent.  Just going with the generally accepted theory for this explanation.

The only official text we have is the Prime Access FAQ, which says that "A Prime Warframe, weapon, Sentinel or accessory represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era." Just so we all have an understanding of existing lore on the subject.

On 2021-09-26 at 3:35 PM, Kerberos-3 said:

Simply put, the special Strain of infestation that exists on the Mycona had to have come from somewhere, that somewhere probably being whatever it was the Mycona was originally transporting merging with the Infestation to become what it is now. That something was probably a dormant Warframe, which the Infestation tried to claim, accidentally merged with, and ended up mutating both.

This is all completely made up. There is no special strain of the Infestation, unless you count the Triuna (but Ergo and Lotus don't come to the conclusion that that is what the Triuna is). Ergo says the Myconians gained their understanding of the Infestation from the Nidus blueprint, but that's really all he says about Nidus (and it doesn't confirm that the Triuna comes from Nidus).

On 2021-09-26 at 4:16 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

For all we know, void relics allow access to a timeline that just has better stuff and we're yoinking it.  Dimension #44 Ballas is just way better at making warframes than the Ballas we got that only wants to chase tail.

We know from cinematics and webcomics that Prime warframes existed, unless you think that the Erra cutscene we watched took place in a different timeline.

On 2021-09-26 at 4:17 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Was my clan mate right or wrong to say nidus prime would be a conflict with lore and so we wont have his primed version? (which was like 4-5 years ago)

Wrong.

On 2021-09-26 at 4:17 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Whatever yes or no then why? Whats the idea behind it?

He thinks (or thought) there would be a lore conflict because the explanation is not simple. For most frames, the Orokin made the frame (such as Ember) and also made the Prime frame (such as Ember Prime). However, frames like Nidus that have specific origin stories (or seem to have specific origin stories) can confuse people. Some people think that the Orokin could not have made Nidus Prime because Nidus was made by the Infestation (because he is found in an Infested Corpus ship). But it's not true. The story just requires extra details. DE then gave us those details: Nidus was built or half-built, then launched into space and Infested, then came back to Earth and was worked on further.

On 2021-09-26 at 4:17 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Why @(XBOX)C11H22O11 said pre sacrifice it would be against lore to have nidus in prime but post sacrifice it should be ok?

Prior to The Sacrifice, it was not confirmed that the warframes were made of Infested tissue (though it was very heavily implied). Now we know. Not everyone would think this substantially alters the lore of Nidus Prime, however.

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On 2021-09-26 at 4:29 PM, nslay said:

All I gathered from Nidus Prime was that the Orokin knew how to make decorative infested flesh that even had pigments capable of gold coloration! But over a thousand years, that coloration was lost through evolution...

The Nidus Prime trailer implies that Ballas took a Prime warframe and shot it out into space, where it got corrupted with the Infestation. Then it came back to Earth and he took it and used it like any other warframe. You can also imagine that he originally shot out a normal warframe and then made a Prime version of what came back, depending on which you thought came first (Prime or normal), as that's not established.

On 2021-09-26 at 4:50 PM, ZeroX4 said:

3. Where primed variants are the ORIGINAL versions and non-primed warframes are just some kind of lesser copy of primed ones made by infested?

It's not established if normal frames or Prime frames were created first by the Orokin. Obviously one is based on the other, but we don't know which.

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2 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

There is no issue with Nidus Prime. All warframes will have a Prime variant come out. If there are prevalent questions about the lore (as there were for Nidus), then DE may clarify some details when they release it (as they did with the Nidus Prime trailer). It's true that there's not a simple explanation for Nidus Prime, so your clanmate thought that it didn't make sense. But he's wrong to say that according to lore there should be no Nidus Prime.

This is speculation. There's no reason Valkyr's original abilities couldn't have been the abilities we know, in which case there is no lore conflict.

Not necessarily true. Protea was built specifically for Parvos Granum ("Legend says", according to Biz, so even that may not be true), but the Orokin could have produced a Protea Prime afterwards, having seen Protea in action with Parvos.

The only official text we have is the Prime Access FAQ, which says that "A Prime Warframe, weapon, Sentinel or accessory represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era." Just so we all have an understanding of existing lore on the subject.

This is all completely made up. There is no special strain of the Infestation, unless you count the Triuna (but Ergo and Lotus don't come to the conclusion that that is what the Triuna is). Ergo says the Myconians gained their understanding of the Infestation from the Nidus blueprint, but that's really all he says about Nidus (and it doesn't confirm that the Triuna comes from Nidus).

We know from cinematics and webcomics that Prime warframes existed, unless you think that the Erra cutscene we watched took place in a different timeline.

Wrong.

He thinks (or thought) there would be a lore conflict because the explanation is not simple. For most frames, the Orokin made the frame (such as Ember) and also made the Prime frame (such as Ember Prime). However, frames like Nidus that have specific origin stories (or seem to have specific origin stories) can confuse people. Some people think that the Orokin could not have made Nidus Prime because Nidus was made by the Infestation (because he is found in an Infested Corpus ship). But it's not true. The story just requires extra details. DE then gave us those details: Nidus was built or half-built, then launched into space and Infested, then came back to Earth and was worked on further.

Prior to The Sacrifice, it was not confirmed that the warframes were made of Infested tissue (though it was very heavily implied). Now we know. Not everyone would think this substantially alters the lore of Nidus Prime, however.

 

2 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

The Nidus Prime trailer implies that Ballas took a Prime warframe and shot it out into space, where it got corrupted with the Infestation. Then it came back to Earth and he took it and used it like any other warframe. You can also imagine that he originally shot out a normal warframe and then made a Prime version of what came back, depending on which you thought came first (Prime or normal), as that's not established.

It's not established if normal frames or Prime frames were created first by the Orokin. Obviously one is based on the other, but we don't know which.

And i needed 3 pages on this topic to actually someone even try to explain all that?
Thx it now make allot more sense

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5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

It's not established if normal frames or Prime frames were created first by the Orokin. Obviously one is based on the other, but we don't know which.

Neither of them were. "Normals" are the tenno frames that came up later since the tenno didnt have access to Orokin tech, then prior to the Primes there was something that Ballas implies in The Sacrifice got put to death. And the problem that was tied to those frames got solved when the Orokin took inspiration from their "dualism" doctrine, this after finding out by accident what effect the spoilers had on uncontrollable frames. Now of course, the Primes may be altered/fixed originals, which still makes them "MK2" while normals are MK3 (as far as we know) and Umbra being a special custom pet project of Ballas.

edit: Also not really sure how you got the Nidus trailer to imply any of what you said about it. That is next level headcanon.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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