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I've waited before making this post but when is blast damage not going to be worthless


(XBOX)Harbinger XK5
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Blast


Grants the Blast Status Effect a single target. Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% inaccuracy for for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration.

 

This Change happen in 2020 and made an already mediocre status effect into something that's not even worth using. reducing enemy accuracy has no point and blast damage should do something meaningful it's blast for crying out loud. 

Blast should work something like this: creates shrapnel that does small ticks of impact, slash, puncture, and heat damage. I mean even stagger would be more useful than reducing the accuracy of already inaccurate enemies.

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It has a point, you're just incapable of thinking about anything but damage and aoe. 

Whatever status changes are made, you and other players are gonna have to realize you don't make games and adding damage and Dot ticks to every status is silly and will just be nerfed because it's common sense it'll be too much. 

The ulterior motive is just seeping out lol: "yea let me apply slash and heat all at once". 

And just to clarify in the Edit:

You know you're just creating a viral/blast meta.....viral heat and slash in 2 elements....

You didn't change anything for the better, you just moved the meta goalpost.

If anything, increasing the blind percentage would at least be somewhat useful, to the point where stacking 10 stacks of blast creates 100% blind and a guarantee nothing would hit you projectile wise but splash damage still could technically....

That would mean if you used an aoe weapon to spread blast in a large area you would make it so many enemies wouldn't hit you.

Edited by (PSN)Madurai-Prime
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il y a 11 minutes, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

It has a point, you're just incapable of thinking about anything but damage and aoe. 

Whatever status changes are made, you and other players are gonna have to realize you don't make games and adding damage and Dot ticks to every status is silly and will just be nerfed because it's common sense it'll be too much. 

The ulterior motive is just seeping out lol: "yea let me apply slash and heat all at once". 

And just to clarify in the Edit:

You know you're just creating a viral/blast meta.....viral heat and slash in 2 elements....

You didn't change anything for the better, you just moved the meta goalpost.

If anything, increasing the blind percentage would at least be somewhat useful, to the point where stacking 10 stacks of blast creates 100% blind and a guarantee nothing would hit you projectile wise but splash damage still could technically....

That would mean if you used an aoe weapon to spread blast in a large area you would make it so many enemies wouldn't hit you.

I don't agree with OP suggestion, but I have to say blast is still in a very bad state for a few reasons :

  • Reducing enemies accuracy by 75% (10 stacks) is worthless in the current state of game because there are munch stronger CC available through elements.
    For example, running pure electricity or heat is much better than blast, while the CC component is just a part of the status.
  • Blast is not only bad at CC, but also terrible because other cold and electricty (the other elements you can can in combination) are also CC that don't really help blast to shine, and magnetic is also quite bad, which make the combo even worst.
  • The current status of blast just don't match the damage type. When you ear about blast you either think about AoE, detonation or knockdown, but not... accuracy reduction.

A very simple and effective way to make Blast shine without making it the obvious meta is the following :
Blast status create a sphere around the impact that deal damage to surrounding, with its own chance for status (Exluding blast).

Making any projectile into AoE might sounds OP, but the only damage types that can spread this way are ips/cold/electricity/magnetic because blast is made of heat+cold, so there is nothing too strong about it like spreading viral/corrosive/toxin this way (exluding some specific weapons with innate element, but it don't really apply toward the general meta).
Also it require a setup with a bunch of status chance or well oriented damage distribution to proc consistantly blast + the element you want in succession, so there is a big loss compared to innate AoE.

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Much as I miss the old “Creates AoE knockdown and damage” of old blast (I still sometimes have a brainfart and mod for blast expecting the old effect), it sort of does make sense…? Ultimately Blast is an element innate to many explosive weapons, which means the AoE damage effect is already taken care, and so the status applied seems to be some sort of concussion effect, and the element can be added to whatever elemental mods we then equip.

Modding Blast onto a non-AoE weapon does feel a little underwhelming, but I guess I wouldn’t normally be doing it except for something like… I dunno, an Ancient. hm. It kind of makes me wish there were more times to use blast to take advantage of something’s weakness to it.

edit: Though now I’m wondering if I could stand to bring some Blast to the Plains to deal with machinery. 🤔 May give it a try

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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19 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I don't agree with OP suggestion, but I have to say blast is still in a very bad state for a few reasons :

  • Reducing enemies accuracy by 75% (10 stacks) is worthless in the current state of game because there are munch stronger CC available through elements.
    For example, running pure electricity or heat is much better than blast, while the CC component is just a part of the status.
  • Blast is not only bad at CC, but also terrible because other cold and electricty (the other elements you can can in combination) are also CC that don't really help blast to shine, and magnetic is also quite bad, which make the combo even worst.
  • The current status of blast just don't match the damage type. When you ear about blast you either think about AoE, detonation or knockdown, but not... accuracy reduction.

A very simple and effective way to make Blast shine without making it the obvious meta is the following :
Blast status create a sphere around the impact that deal damage to surrounding, with its own chance for status (Exluding blast).

Making any projectile into AoE might sounds OP, but the only damage types that can spread this way are ips/cold/electricity/magnetic because blast is made of heat+cold, so there is nothing too strong about it like spreading viral/corrosive/toxin this way (exluding some specific weapons with innate element, but it don't really apply toward the general meta).
Also it require a setup with a bunch of status chance or well oriented damage distribution to proc consistantly blast + the element you want in succession, so there is a big loss compared to innate AoE.

Yea if anything, the blind should be added to gas, and blast should do something that's either one or a combination of things. Whether it is a shrapnel blast of puncture and impact, or a small aoe that had a chance to be either blast punc or heat or whatever. 

The other issue is that DE isn't gonna rebuff blast. It was nerfed for a reason before. Whatever they do is probably not gonna be the most meta.

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4 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Old Blast was way better, the fact it caused knockdown on enemies allowed weapons with fair Status chance to keep enemies down wile you mowed them. I remember that Zenistar with Blast + Electric was a massive CC tool because it would stunlock anything that got in its area of effect.

i prefer old blast too. I have no idea what the intention was behind the change. Seems random 

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54 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It has a point, you're just incapable of thinking about anything but damage and aoe. 

Whatever status changes are made, you and other players are gonna have to realize you don't make games and adding damage and Dot ticks to every status is silly and will just be nerfed because it's common sense it'll be too much. 

The ulterior motive is just seeping out lol: "yea let me apply slash and heat all at once". 

And just to clarify in the Edit:

You know you're just creating a viral/blast meta.....viral heat and slash in 2 elements....

You didn't change anything for the better, you just moved the meta goalpost.

If anything, increasing the blind percentage would at least be somewhat useful, to the point where stacking 10 stacks of blast creates 100% blind and a guarantee nothing would hit you projectile wise but splash damage still could technically....

That would mean if you used an aoe weapon to spread blast in a large area you would make it so many enemies wouldn't hit you.

The accuracy reduction caps at 75% it's useless when the enemies can't effectively hit a moving target to begin with. 

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Just now, asianguy262001 said:

i prefer old blast too. I have no idea what the intention was behind the change. Seems random 

It wasn't random, you have to remember there's people that want different things in game.

One of the reasons blast was changed was because people said they can't land headshots when all the enemies are on the ground. The CC was useful to some but not others depending on playstyle.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

Personally i find the status effects to be boring in the first place they have no real substance to them sure you light enemies on fire or slow them down but ultimately they have no visual or combat effects to them that makes them interesting.

Usually they’re not given a chance to breathe because everything is simply dying to overtuned equipment. Most things fall under the same umbrella

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2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

The accuracy reduction caps at 75% it's useless when the enemies can't effectively hit a moving target to begin with. 

Some average players don't move...they actually barely use the movement system and treat the game like call of duty standing in a hallway.

And even if you're utilizing the system well, you can test this in steel path or simulacrum: you'll still get hit occasionally, which is ok, because movement in general decreases amount of times hit. Which is why I suggested 100% blind so if someone actually mods for blast they'll be rewarded more for using it.

If you're not aware, corrupted and therefore steel path corrupted do 3x more damage. Missing projectiles by them actually means life or death. 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Some average players don't move...they actually barely use the movement system and treat the game like call of duty standing in a hallway.

And even if you're utilizing the system well, you can test this in steel path or simulacrum: you'll still get hit occasionally, which is ok, because movement in general decreases amount of times hit. Which is why I suggested 100% blind so if someone actually mods for blast they'll be rewarded more for using it.

If you're not aware, corrupted and therefore steel path corrupted do 3x more damage. Missing projectiles by them actually means life or death. 

I'm well aware of how the system works it's half of the reason I'm annoyed with it. I started in 2016 and have 6000 hours of in mission playtime and have studied the mechanics of this game.

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4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

I'm well aware of how the system works it's half of the reason I'm annoyed with it. I started in 2016 and have 6000 hours of in mission playtime and have studied the mechanics of this game.

Yet you still need damage? You have a slew of multipliers and abilities that enhance damage and now we have primed firestorm....specters operators and even teammates to buff us as well....

I love the powercreep too, I'm just saying it comes at a price and don't be surprised if what you want doesn't get nerfed later on for ultra obvious reasons. 

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26 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It wasn't random, you have to remember there's people that want different things in game.

One of the reasons blast was changed was because people said they can't land headshots when all the enemies are on the ground. The CC was useful to some but not others depending on playstyle.

never thought of that actually. I keep forgetting that warframe is multiplayer lol

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While I think the proc isn't worthless, it is overshadowed by other procs with CC.  And even if it were 10x as effective and those other procs didn't exist, accuracy reduction wouldn't feel very satisfying.

All procs should have a visceral effect on the game, and Blast more than most.  I'm not asking for more power, just more obvious impact.  (But not like Impact😉 )

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

Blast


Grants the Blast Status Effect a single target. Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% inaccuracy for for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration.

 

This Change happen in 2020 and made an already mediocre status effect into something that's not even worth using. reducing enemy accuracy has no point and blast damage should do something meaningful it's blast for crying out loud. 

Blast should work something like this: creates shrapnel that does small ticks of impact, slash, puncture, and heat damage. I mean even stagger would be more useful than reducing the accuracy of already inaccurate enemies.

Blast's status effect will become more viable overall at the same time cold's, radiation's, puncture's and even heat's (in terms of panic) status effects becomes more viable: When DE decides to balance this game properly, let's enemies live long enough to be a threat and tinkers with survivability so we aren't effectively immortal.

These status effects are valuable in early-to midgame when players aren't effectively immortal, aren't one-shotting enemies everywhere and aren't stunlocking enemies (almost) constantly with one ability. They are also valuable in the Grendel Missions if players don't just cheese their way through it.

Edited by Silligoose
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6 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

The current status of blast just don't match the damage type. When you ear about blast you either think about AoE, detonation or knockdown, but not... accuracy reduction.

Blast could cause you headache, your vision could be blurred etc. So accuracy reduction fits.

6 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

Blast status create a sphere around the impact that deal damage to surrounding, with its own chance for status (Exluding blast).

So... another gas... nah.

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

The accuracy reduction caps at 75% it's useless when the enemies can't effectively hit a moving target to begin with. 

Enemies know exactly where you are. They will even start shooting before they can see you (e.g. between you and enemy there is wall). You could move but some bullets will still hit you.

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Blast's status effect will become more viable overall at the same time cold's, radiation's, puncture's and even heat's (in terms of panic) status effects becomes more viable: When DE decides to balance this game properly, let's enemies live long enough to be a threat and tinkers with survivability so we aren't effectively immortal.

These status effects are valuable in early-to midgame when players aren't effectively immortal, aren't one-shotting enemies everywhere and aren't stunlocking enemies (almost) constantly with one ability. They are also valuable in the Grendel Missions if players don't just cheese their way through it.

The problem is that game is oriented around killing. Even defefenses could be treated like this. If game had something different then we could talk.

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47 minutes ago, quxier said:

The problem is that game is oriented around killing. Even defefenses could be treated like this. If game had something different then we could talk.

The game is orientated around completing missions, which is orientated around achieving certain specific goals, some of which does not require killing at all:

  • Rescue's main objective is to keep the subject alive. Killing isn't required
  • Mobile defense requires keeping the objective alive. Killing ins't required
  • Defection requires for subjects to be escorted to the dropship. Killing isn't required
  • Interception requires the control of specific points. Killing isn't required
  • Spy requires infiltration and hacking. Killing isn't required
  • Assault has mobile defense and hacking elements. Doesn't require killing
  • Hi-Jack requires the escort of a vehicle. Killing isn't required
  • Sabotage requires fetching and/or of components. Sometimes mobile defense elements. Killing isn't required

In early to mid-game, when players don't have access to the ridiculous power lategame players do, status effects from elements such as Blast, Cold, Radiation etc can play a pivotal role, an even bigger role than damage, in completing a mission at those levels.

The game has something different. What exactly do you want to talk about?

Edited by Silligoose
More game modes that don't require killing added.
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14 minutes ago, Silligoose said:
  • Rescue's main objective is to keep the subject alive. Killing isn't required
  • Mobile defense requires keeping the objective alive. Killing ins't required
  • Defection requires for subjects to be escorted to the dropship. Killing isn't required

Also Interception and Spy.

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9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Also Interception and Spy.

Yes indeed. Also High-Jack, Assault and Sabotage I believe. Didn't want to bother listing more than the initial three, but now that you pointed some out, it may emphasize my point. I'll make the edit.

Edit: I think it looks better. Thanks for the assist! :)

Edited by Silligoose
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5 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Yes indeed. Also High-Jack, Assault and Sabotage I believe. Didn't want to bother listing more than the initial three, but now that you pointed some out, it may emphasize my point. I'll make the edit.

Edit: I think it looks better. Thanks for the assist! :)

Hah, I forgot about those.

And if we want to get silly technical: Survival.  😉

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Just now, Tiltskillet said:

Hah, I forgot about those.

And if we want to get silly technical: Survival.  😉

I thought about it!!! I kept that one out because one may need to a few enemies for some life support drops. to actually complete the mission. Even excavation isn't orientated around killing, but defense of the excavators, although a few kills will serve one well to power Excavators. Even Capture requires only one enemy to be downed. The more I think about the missions, the more apparent it becomes that most missions are not orientated around killing at all - it is just something we do because it is the easiest way, in many cases, to complete the objective more safely and/or efficiently. 

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2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The game is orientated around completing missions, which is orientated around achieving certain specific goals, some of which does not require killing at all:

Just because killing isn't required it doesn't mean that game doesn't incentivize you to kill. If game requires to interact with enemies (e.g. enemies want to destroy you or something you are protecting) then killing is one of thing you will do. Killing might be way you can win that missions.

Only spy and sabotage (not counting destroying some not living stuffs) make killing not option to win (you need to do something different to win). However those missions doesn't require you to interact with enemies so you don't need to think about procing statuses.

ps. another mission is treasure hunt from Maroo

 

2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

In early to mid-game, when players don't have access to the ridiculous power lategame players do, status effects from elements such as Blast, Cold, Radiation etc can play a pivotal role, an even bigger role than damage, in completing a mission at those levels.

I remember with old blast I've been running with my sonicor stunning everything.... however killing were still huge part of it.

 

2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The game has something different. What exactly do you want to talk about?

If game had - I don't think game has it. Lots of things could be solved with "big enough gun". When game introduce new ways to interact with enemies that makes killing then bad choice then we can put different elements on our weapons/frames.

Without those things our options are limited.

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I'd prefer a better CC rather than a damage option.

Frankly, I'd prefer the knockdown of old. It was taken away, in large part, because it interfered with headshots. But that was also before the base status mods were buffed. Nowadays, you can run Corrosive and Heat (which itself is much better than before) and have more status chance than if you run all four 60/60 mods. You're no longer required to sacrifice some status chance if you want to avoid the knockdown effects. What's the harm if it's the player's choice?

If not that, a temporary blind (with updated SFX to make it more "flashbang"-like) would be fine.

It doesn't need to be meta, but if it isn't meta, it should at least be unique so we might still have a reason to use it. Something needn't be the best if it's fun.

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