Kuva Lich Rework Idea: Why not make the liches other tenno?

[Brinstar7777]

Yes, yes, I can here you guys shouting that the Tenno are space ninjas, not space liches, and you're right in that the tenno are space ninjas. But they're also kinda space-liches as well.

Think about it. The tenno are able to basically be killed over and over and over again, and still come back at you. Kinda undead lich-y, right? Also, every tenno has a 'phylactery' of sorts; their operator. Take away the operator's warframe and void powers, and they become pretty damn vulnerable. 

But how would you end up fighting other tenno? Well, it's not that hard to get a tenno. You just subject a kid to void energy, get a few helminth spores, infect some unfortunate sap with them, and you have a tenno. Granted, it's a tenno with only 1 warframe, no training, and no weapons, but it's a tenno none-the-less. So it stands to reason that the other factions would eventually figure out how to make warframes and tenno of their own, right?

Now that I've justified all this, lets get into the system itself.

Grineer Kuva Lich Trailer: Children of the Queen

Spoiler

The trailer opens with a view of a small child floating in a large tube filled with a red liquid, eyes closed. It's appearance makes it unmistakably grineer, but you can tell from it's appearance that it isn't as degraded as other grineer. Singsong voices of male children come in, each with a slightly different speech inpediment that creates a really errie mix between harmony and discord.

Voices: We are maggots; lowest of the low.

The child opens it's eyes, revealing pupils that glow red.

Voices: Sickly and weak, fated only to die.

Cut to a view of that same child, now about the operator's age, standing at the helm of a grineer cruiseship, behind the pilot. A Tenno railjack swoops into view in the Pilot's Viewscreen. 

Voices: We are maggots; lowest of the low.

The grineer tenno steps back into a Chroma warframe with a Graxx skin, phasing into it via Transference. The Chroma Graxx warframe comes alive, an archwing of obvious grineer design unfurling from it's back, and a hatch opens. It leaps out, taking to the Emptyream, a Grattler archgun in it's hands.

Voices: But eventually, even maggots can fly.

New System Tutorial Page:

Spoiler

THE BIRTH OF A LICH

Seek out canidates on Void Storm Emptyream missions, and slay them to bring forth a Lich.

AN IMMORTAL FOE

You can only permanently kill this adversary by isolating the location of their flagship via collecting Void Signatures.

YOUR FOE'S TRAIT

Every foe has a trait, a passive effect that is unique to them and sets them apart. Vanquish your foe to claim this trait for your own.

TITHES

When you complete a mission within your foe's sphere of influence, your foe may lay claim to some of your rewards. Besting your foe is the only way to recover what you have lost.

LURE THEM OUT

Kill enemies, loot supplies, and complete missions to agitate your foe, and increase the likelihood that they will deploy a warframe to stop you.

TAKE THEM DOWN

Best the warframe your foe deploys to gain 1 of 4 void signatures needed to isolate the location of your foe's flagship. But beware; doing so causes your foe to rank up, and gain a new warframe that it may deploy against you.

SEEK THEM OUT

Once you gain all 4 void signatures, take to Emptyream and pursue your foe to their flagship.

FINISH THEM OFF

Best all 5 of your foe's warframes at once to drive them out of their warframes and into the open. Then, take them down.

MAKE YOUR CHOICE

Vanquish your foe to apply their unique trait to your warframe, or convert them to gain on-call backup and a truly unique railjack crewmember. Either way, you'll gain all the tithes they have collected, and any epherma they may have.

 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

43 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

Yes, yes, I can here you guys shouting that the Tenno are space ninjas, not space liches, and you're right in that the tenno are space ninjas. But they're also kinda space-liches as well.

Think about it. The tenno are able to basically be killed over and over and over again, and still come back at you. Kinda undead lich-y, right? Also, every tenno has a 'phylactery' of sorts; their operator. Take away the operator's warframe and void powers, and they become pretty damn vulnerable. 

But how would you end up fighting other tenno? Well, it's not that hard to get a tenno. You just subject a kid to void energy, get a few helminth spores, infect some unfortunate sap with them, and you have a tenno. Granted, it's a tenno with only 1 warframe, no training, and no weapons, but it's a tenno none-the-less. So it stands to reason that the other factions would eventually figure out how to make warframes and tenno of their own, right?

Now that I've justified all this, lets get into the system itself.

Grineer Kuva Lich Trailer: Children of the Queen

  Hide contents

The trailer opens with a view of a small child floating in a large tube filled with a red liquid, eyes closed. It's appearance makes it unmistakably grineer, but you can tell from it's appearance that it isn't as degraded as other grineer. Singsong voices of male children come in, each with a slightly different speech inpediment that creates a really errie mix between harmony and discord.

Voices: We are maggots; lowest of the low.

The child opens it's eyes, revealing pupils that glow red.

Voices: Sickly and weak, fated only to die.

Cut to a view of that same child, now about the operator's age, standing at the helm of a grineer cruiseship, behind the pilot. A Tenno railjack swoops into view in the Pilot's Viewscreen. 

Voices: We are maggots; lowest of the low.

The grineer tenno steps back into a Chroma warframe with a Graxx skin, phasing into it via Transference. The Chroma Graxx warframe comes alive, an archwing of obvious grineer design unfurling from it's back, and a hatch opens. It leaps out, taking to the Emptyream, a Grattler archgun in it's hands.

Voices: But eventually, even maggots can fly.

New System Tutorial Page:

  Hide contents

THE BIRTH OF A LICH

Seek out canidates on Void Storm Emptyream missions, and slay them to bring forth a Lich.

AN IMMORTAL FOE

You can only permanently kill this adversary by isolating the location of their flagship via collecting Void Signatures.

YOUR FOE'S TRAIT

Every foe has a trait, a passive effect that is unique to them and sets them apart. Vanquish your foe to claim this trait for your own.

TITHES

When you complete a mission within your foe's sphere of influence, your foe may lay claim to some of your rewards. Besting your foe is the only way to recover what you have lost.

LURE THEM OUT

Kill enemies, loot supplies, and complete missions to agitate your foe, and increase the likelihood that they will deploy a warframe to stop you.

TAKE THEM DOWN

Best the warframe your foe deploys to gain 1 of 4 void signatures needed to isolate the location of your foe's flagship. But beware; doing so causes your foe to rank up, and gain a new warframe that it may deploy against you.

SEEK THEM OUT

Once you gain all 4 void signatures, take to Emptyream and pursue your foe to their flagship.

FINISH THEM OFF

Best all 5 of your foe's warframes at once to drive them out of their warframes and into the open. Then, take them down.

MAKE YOUR CHOICE

Vanquish your foe to apply their unique trait to your warframe, or convert them to gain on-call backup and a truly unique railjack crewmember. Either way, you'll gain all the tithes they have collected, and any epherma they may have.

 

First of all its

”KUVA” liches. Not 

“TENNO liches”. WE are the Tenno liches, and we already have to fight spectres and stuff and they seem fairly easy to kill. The grineer are tough, heavy gun type of dudes. Tenno can use anything so we’ll have to give the Tenno all the Tenno,weapons which we can already craft. 

Kuva liches are the more experimental ALIVE version of warframes. Our nemesises. (Dunno how to say that) 

So they have their unique OP tough heavy gun weapons, infused with Kuva so they are more overpowered.

The Zarr is literally A mobile cannon from dem ol’ ships.

 

Its a good idea but the grineer would never under any circumstance, ally with Tenno. 
also they would have to make us a lich too and I don’t want to work for grineer.
 

[Brinstar7777]

On 2021-09-29 at 8:18 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

”KUVA” liches. Not 

“TENNO liches”.

Firstly, I'm proposing that we cut the Kuva out of the system entirely. The queen may be using it to transfer tenno between cloned bodies in order to keep them alive and allow them to continue to serve their queen despite genetic defects in each clone, but it isn't the main thing that makes the Tenno liches powerful in this instance. It's that they can fight and combat other tenno in a way no other enemy units can by challenging them in an area in which they're normally dominant.

On 2021-09-29 at 8:18 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

we already have to fight spectres and stuff and they seem fairly easy to kill.

The spectres are just warframes on their own. With Tenno Liches, we're actually fighting another warframe being directed by another operator. Sure, an operator grown in a grineer cloning vat and  These new Tenno Liches should feature a AI that is smarter and more complex than the Spectre's AI.

On 2021-09-29 at 8:18 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Its a good idea but the grineer would never under any circumstance, ally with Tenno. 

Yeah, some of the more conservative grineer generals would DEFINITELY raise a stink about all this, so why don't we let the worm queen answer this very complaint.
Worm Queen: "Some of you have been raising complaints about how we're consorting with the Dreamers and their nasty little metal puppets. As I have explained to the generals and will explain to you, we aren't consorting with the dreamers. We're just making our own! After all, the best way to fight your enemy is to become them!" *malevolent giggles*

On 2021-09-29 at 8:18 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

also they would have to make us a lich too and I don’t want to work for grineer.

I'm not saying that the Tenno are Liches, just that they are kinda lich-y and that all it would take is a separate group of tenno, in opposition to the lotus's children, with a bigger focus on their lich-like traits to get Tenno Liches that could replace the Kuva Liches. Besides, the title of Lich would be far more appropriate with these Tenno Liches, since they have a physical phylactery of sorts in the form of their operators, unlike the current Kuva Liches

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

there is only one real issue I can see with this... I don't think an artificial Tenno has been made, like the type your suggesting. But that's hard to argue since the only Tenno we know of are the ones created in the Zariman Ten-Zero.
Afterall, if just void energy was needed, surely many Orokin children, who would have been subjected to the void unintentionally through Orokin creations, would have become Tenno as well, right? Yet there is no known instance of this happening.

If we were to get some form of Tenno nemesis system, it would probably need to be some void entity (potentially the Man in the Wall) mimicking our Warframe's somehow and making some adjustments to make it stronger. But it probably wouldn't be a real Tenno, since I can't see any potentially turning on other Tenno with the origin system being how it is

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

there is only one real issue I can see with this... I don't think an artificial Tenno has been made, like the type your suggesting. But that's hard to argue since the only Tenno we know of are the ones created in the Zariman Ten-Zero.
Afterall, if just void energy was needed, surely many Orokin children, who would have been subjected to the void unintentionally through Orokin creations, would have become Tenno as well, right? Yet there is no known instance of this happening.

If we were to get some form of Tenno nemesis system, it would probably need to be some void entity (potentially the Man in the Wall) mimicking our Warframe's somehow and making some adjustments to make it stronger. But it probably wouldn't be a real Tenno, since I can't see any potentially turning on other Tenno with the origin system being how it is

Well I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a Tenno who became entitled and power hungry. I see a lot of kids that become extremely entitled where they treat people like mere sversnts or slaves. Until of course somebody decides to discipline them. 
 

Wouldn’t be surprised if there was a rogue Tenno. But the OP confuses me. Like what they asking for hasn’t even been hinted at being possible. Almost makes me wonder if they’ve paid attention to the quests. Maybe need to redo all the story line quests involving the Tenno. And pay extra attention. 
 

The New War is starting to explain how the Lotus came to be. There are still some unexplained questions that need to be answered. Probably gonna be a few more years before we finally get the full story. 
 

Liches are nothing like warframes, nothing like Tennos. Liches are grineer infused with orokin DNA. Not the same as a warframe. I could understand the science of the grineer who become liches evolved and adapt to the warframe that they survived. But they are still not the same as warframes. Not even close if you know what a warframe actually is. 
 

So a tenno Lich, is definitely not possible. At least not right now. In the War Within quest literally showed the Tenno drink the Kuva as one of the options. And all it did was make his eyes turn black red saying “about time”. The other options his eyes turn black red and says something different. 
 

Grineer were injected with Kuva to become Kuva liches. So it’s clear their biology is not the same. The orokin dna and the Tenno mutated void dna are not the same. And definitely not the same as grineer. 
 

Like we are literally talking about aliens, the void, and mutated dna at this point. 

[Brinstar7777]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

I don't think an artificial Tenno has been made, like the type your suggesting. But that's hard to argue since the only Tenno we know of are the ones created in the Zariman Ten-Zero.

Well, surely the orokin would have tried to figure out what went wrong on the Zariman Ten-Zero, right? If they did, then all it would take is to replicate the Zariman incident, albiet on a smaller scale, and they'd have a new Tenno.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

But it probably wouldn't be a real Tenno, since I can't see any potentially turning on other Tenno with the origin system being how it is

Well, the tenno are being birthed and raised by the queen. Why wouldn't they do what she says and attack us on sight?

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if there was a rogue Tenno. But the OP confuses me. Like what they asking for hasn’t even been hinted at being possible. Almost makes me wonder if they’ve paid attention to the quests. Maybe need to redo all the story line quests involving the Tenno. And pay extra attention. 

Well, there are thousands of tenno in the in-game lore, right? Way more than what could be crammed onto the Zariman alone. So that implies that the orokin were creating additional tenno. And for the record, these tenno are not rogue because they never were on our side to begin with.

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Liches are nothing like warframes, nothing like Tennos.

I'm not saying that the Liches are identical to Tenno, just that they can do similar things and that tenno grown and trained by enemy factions can easily replace them. 

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

 

So a tenno Lich, is definitely not possible. At least not right now. In the War Within quest literally showed the Tenno drink the Kuva as one of the options. And all it did was make his eyes turn black red saying “about time”. The other options his eyes turn black red and says something different. 

I'm not referring to tenno who've become Kuva Liches when I say 'tenno liches'. I'm simply referring to tenno who work for the Grineer.

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

1 hour ago, Brinstar7777 said:

Well, there are thousands of tenno in the in-game lore, right? Way more than what could be crammed onto the Zariman alone. So that implies that the orokin were creating additional tenno. And for the record, these tenno are not rogue because they never were on our side to begin with.

In the lore, we only know of about like 10-ish tenno: the player, Rell, Limbo's Tenno, and then the ones who have Leverian entries (since each frame with an entry had to be controlled by a Tenno). You could then also make a claim that each unique frame had its own Tenno, but since Limbo Theorem confirmed that a Tenno can use multiple frames, That's unlikely.
Each instance of a player Tenno isn't an in-game lore instance of a Tenno, its just a gameplay thing. Otherwise I'm allowed to claim that in-lore there is an infinite amount of Alad-V's, since you can kill him an infinite amount of times. Its allowing multiple Tenno to exist in the same place, or allowing you to kill the same boss numerous times, for the sake of gameplay, while not impacting on the lore. (for the same reason that multiple Excalibur Umbra's can be in a lobby despite their canonically only being 1 Umbra)

Also it should be noted that based on how the Zariman looked in the Rell comic, it's highly likely that it could have fit a few thousand, if not more, without issue... At least if we compare it to another object of similar shape in the warframe universe: the heads of Corpus capital ships... Especially considering the grandiose nature of the Orokin to make everything as big as possible, and the fact that it was a military ship (according to Ember Prime's entry), meaning it would have likely been able to fit at least a couple thousand for that purpose, and then have extra room for other things.

[Brinstar7777]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

In the lore, we only know of about like 10-ish tenno: the player, Rell, Limbo's Tenno, and then the ones who have Leverian entries (since each frame with an entry had to be controlled by a Tenno).

When I mentioned thousands of tenno, I was referrencing the thousands of lotus flowers we see in the background near the beginning of the Erra cinematic cutscene. Plus, if there were thousands of kids on board the Zariman, then that raises a question as to how over a thousand tenno kids managed to smuggle themselves aboard without anyone noticing.