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Do you genuinely believe tutorials would in fact help?


ZeroX4

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On 2021-10-02 at 12:42 PM, ZeroX4 said:

From time to time i see ppl say warframe should have some tutorial because many new players quit at first few hours of the game because lack of guidance and proper explanation to what to do or how to upgrade stuff

Well i cant argue with that since im a person that quitted for that exact reason

I have been considering constructing a youtube tutorial series focusing primarily on the mechanical skills, weapons, mods, and various other items that are necessary to use melee to its fullest extent. Why melee? Well, everyone knows how to point and click to shoot. I can't really help anyone with improving their aim. What I can do is teach them a variety of ways to move faster, hit harder, and play smarter. Naturally I'd have to touch on modding, resources, mastery, and progression as well. I've talked to a few friends that are casual Warframe players or have quit since then and I'm coming to a better understanding of how to provide them with the information they need to breach the entry barrier.

Would you be interested in such a series? If so, what would you like to see in particular? Right now I'm trying to mull over how I can keep the videos entertaining enough to watch without it being a bunch of boring exposition, so I'm open to thoughts.

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To be fair .... You might go to the Biolab and find out that Bubonico requires Open World Resources that are Time Gated.... And Require you to be a specific rank.

 

Soooo yeah... I think a tutorial would be nice....

 

Or DE could just simplify the whole process and just Cram all the weapons in one place and have them all use the exact same resources...

For example.... Every Single card in Gwent us crafted using Scrap... That's it.... Just Scrap.... You teach it to the player's once and then they never have to worry about it ever again.... In Warframe... Every Update is a new thing and that just causes Confusion.

5 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

The channel is literally called a Q&A channel. Why do you have a problem with people asking questions there? It's not called "do your research before asking" channel because if everyone does that there isn't a reason for the channel to exist at all.

I didn't even notice it was Q&A... 😮 !!!

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

K-Drives, Archwings, Mechs and RJ are also things I dont really think requires an explaination or tutorial. They share the core mechanics of the game already, so if you can control your frame you really shouldnt have issues controlling either of those.

I firmly Disagree 🤨...I mean they legit had to rework Archwings because of how bad they were to control...

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Operators get explained well enough when they are introduced, we get a bunch of passive trees that seem neat.

 Not really.... I didn't know Void Mode makes you invulnerable... I only assumed it made you invisible. 

Also Operators are mostly useless at first.... Their Usefulness comes into play after they've been Upgraded which is never explained so that's a problem...

3 hours ago, FatalPapercut said:

I feel like there should be a tutorial pointing people to the tutorials on the codex. 

I don't know if you're joking...but yes you're right... The Tutorial needs a Tutorial on how to find it.... 😁 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mints said:

I have been considering constructing a youtube tutorial series focusing primarily on the mechanical skills, weapons, mods, and various other items that are necessary to use melee to its fullest extent. Why melee? Well, everyone knows how to point and click to shoot. I can't really help anyone with improving their aim. What I can do is teach them a variety of ways to move faster, hit harder, and play smarter. Naturally I'd have to touch on modding, resources, mastery, and progression as well. I've talked to a few friends that are casual Warframe players or have quit since then and I'm coming to a better understanding of how to provide them with the information they need to breach the entry barrier.

Would you be interested in such a series? If so, what would you like to see in particular? Right now I'm trying to mull over how I can keep the videos entertaining enough to watch without it being a bunch of boring exposition, so I'm open to thoughts.

You come here ask am i interested in watching videos where you explain some guide videos you are about to make?
While at the same time you either fail to understand what i wrote and what this topic is about or you did not read it at all or even worse you are advertising your bs no1 cares about by making here off-topic?

For sake of other players please dont since if you have problem in understanding what short post is about how can any1 believe you are properly equipped and mentally suitable to teach others anything

Im not trying to insult you im not trying to be mean
You asked for me honest opinion and here you have it
Still ignoring the fact you did not even try to answer initial question i made in this topic (and please dont)

BTW in game chat type /profile ZeroX4
Click equipment or stats just so you know how stupid you look when asking me such a question
Not to mention my forum posts counter should indicate exact same thing (which you see on the left under my nickname)
Which shows how you are out of sync with to who with what and to what you are replying to and answers your question "would i be interested in such videos" and far more better question "should you even attempt to make such videos"

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44 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

You come here ask am i interested in watching videos where you explain some guide videos you are about to make?
While at the same time you either fail to understand what i wrote and what this topic is about or you did not read it at all or even worse you are advertising your bs no1 cares about by making here off-topic?

For sake of other players please dont since if you have problem in understanding what short post is about how can any1 believe you are properly equipped and mentally suitable to teach others anything

Im not trying to insult you im not trying to be mean
You asked for me honest opinion and here you have it
Still ignoring the fact you did not even try to answer initial question i made in this topic (and please dont)

BTW in game chat type /profile ZeroX4
Click equipment or stats just so you know how stupid you look when asking me such a question
Not to mention my forum posts counter should indicate exact same thing (which you see on the left under my nickname)
Which shows how you are out of sync with to who with what and to what you are replying to and answers your question "would i be interested in such videos" and far more better question "should you even attempt to make such videos"

You come onto the forums to talk about tutorials and their potential helpfulness, then start accusing other people of being off-topic when they start asking you what you would want out of a tutorial? Not only that, but your first reflex is to tell them not to make one. Unbelievable. You complain that other players don't know what they're doing but you don't care enough to help people solve the problem, do you?

I don't care about your profile. I don't care how great and smart you think you are. I asked you if you'd be interested in a tutorial series and what you would like to see in it. It doesn't matter whether you're a veteran player or a new player: Both of those groups can benefit from that information. Seems to me half the problem is people like you.

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1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Having broken achievements is a cert violation and Sony won't let you publish your game on their platform.

IDK why you bring that, but the achievements are broken on xbox since long ago apparently, every now and then an xbox user makes a thread about it. But as I've said, use the data, draw your conclusions and that's it, since there is nothing we could do other than suggestiong "more tutorials".

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1 minute ago, vanaukas said:

IDK why you bring that, but the achievements are broken on xbox since long ago apparently, every now and then an xbox user makes a thread about it. But as I've said, use the data, draw your conclusions and that's it, since there is nothing we could do other than suggestiong "more tutorials".

I can't speak for Xbox cert since we haven't gotten to that at work yet, but a few weeks ago we got a note back from Sony during our first cert pass about our game's achievements. So either DE's got some hidden back-room deal with Sony to let them publish with achievements broken for everyone on that platform, or they're following the same rules as everyone else. There's no reason to believe that achievements are broken for enough console users to make a difference. If they were broken to that degree then they'd have been fixed.

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Does Warframe need tutorials, or do some Warframe players need to stop pretending it's a super complex game? People that get overwhelmed by the quantity of things to learn (all very simple, mind you) would most likely also get overwhelmed by an equal amount of tutorials (something that would give the impression that the game is a lot harder to learn than it actually is).

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26 minutes ago, Mints said:

You come onto the forums to talk about tutorials and their potential helpfulness

Holy F
You actually are able to read and understand - i stand corrected
 

2 hours ago, Mints said:

I have been considering constructing a youtube tutorial series

Wait no you dont
You offer what we have already (in tons) and you failed to understand its about INGAME tutorials and guides and not yours on YT
The fact that i even need to explain it to you proves how competent you are to teach any1 about anything
So lets make some wider explanation specially for you

IF someone leaves warframe  because he/she did not understand how game works or how to mod stuff and that mods need to be upgraded and where to do so
Its not because they didnt have access to your tutorial or any1 else tutorial its because that thing was missing in the game placed in a spot that would be easy to access when actually needed for example when modding

No tutorial you make will magically stop ppl from quitting to play warframe
So in short of it let me repeat myself you come here to advertise your BS no1 cares and no1 needs

35 minutes ago, Mints said:

I don't care about your profile. I don't care how great and smart you think you are

You should care since you try to shove up my butt your crap even so i am not so smart
If you would check my profile you would know that i cant get anything new in this game and i have 4k+ hours of playtime
So idk what i could learn from MR24 with 1k+ hours when its kinda nothing new for me to do in this game
IDK maybe i am not so smart but let me know what you could teach me? Like how to kill grineer in a new exciting way like i had any problem trough that 4k+ hours period?
Surprise me please i genuinely wish you prove me wrong and that your content could teach me something i dont know already
Well aside from the fact its still OFF TOPIC

Unless you make some deal with DE to shove in link to your youtube acc in warframe next to modding or mod upgrading or anywhere in warframe with brief info that it contains answers to all questions new players possibly could have (since again its about new players and not vets to who you addressed your question)

Then i will apologise you and admit you were right i was wrong and that you should make tutorials

 

49 minutes ago, Mints said:

You complain that other players don't know what they're doing but you don't care enough to help people solve the problem, do you?

But on other hand nah im pretty sure you should not even attempt to teach others since you accuse me of things i didnt do
You have such problems understanding what i wrote how you want to teach someone something when clearly you need someone teach you either to read whole post to understand the context or to read with understanding what you jest reed?

So let me help you here understand 2 things
1, I used that player on screenshot i provided in OP as an EXAMPLE to ask a serious question "IF more info would help if mid game player fail to find or is to lazy to use existing info IN GAME"
- I never said it have to stop or that im sick of it or i have any problem with it so where does my complaining occur?

2. Care enough to help ppl solve the problem? What you mean like do tutorials like you or what? I really dont get it what you mean by "care enough"
- I play far longer than you and i can bet i helped far more ppl than you i made many basic low forma use builds for many crap on overframe and to this day ppl in game who join my squad randomly (or i theirs) and recognize me thank me for my effort and sharing my knowledge
- I have no power to force DE to put anything into the game so all i can do is start a forum discussion about issue
But for sure adding or advertising your content to youtube will not solve problem for any1 since tons of that exist and we still have a problem

So please feel free to dive even deeper and keep confirming you dont know what you are talking about and that you didnt read or did not understand the idea behind this topic

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44 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I can't speak for Xbox cert since we haven't gotten to that at work yet, but a few weeks ago we got a note back from Sony during our first cert pass about our game's achievements. So either DE's got some hidden back-room deal with Sony to let them publish with achievements broken for everyone on that platform, or they're following the same rules as everyone else. There's no reason to believe that achievements are broken for enough console users to make a difference. If they were broken to that degree then they'd have been fixed.

Sorry but when I've said, outside the xbox part, that console achievements were broken or something? I've talked about steam achievements being broken, but you pointed out that similar vlaues can be seen on consoles, and I've said "use that data, draw conclusions and that's it"(this is literally the third time I write this, I can't believe it). I don't know if sony achievements are broken btw, but for the record, cyberpunk 2077 was put into sony stores without certification because they trusted cdpr that they would deliver something of quality and we all know what happened there. Controls/gamepads are also a huge deal with certifications and WF had problems in cosoles with controls in the past... I don't think DE has some agreement with sony more than any other big dev, I think they are more hard with new studios/devs since they had no background to trust

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50 minutes ago, ebrl said:

Does Warframe need tutorials, or do some Warframe players need to stop pretending it's a super complex game? People that get overwhelmed by the quantity of things to learn (all very simple, mind you) would most likely also get overwhelmed by an equal amount of tutorials (something that would give the impression that the game is a lot harder to learn than it actually is).

this is a very good point and also why I used EVE online as an example. If someone won't believe me, make a new account there and see for yourself if big and complete turtorials are the answer

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34 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

The fact that i even need to explain it to you proves how competent you are to teach any1 about anything

I'm just going to stop reading here buddy. You've got a serious ego on you, and your elitist BS attitude is why people don't learn what they need to learn.

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16 minutes ago, Mints said:

I'm just going to stop reading here buddy. You've got a serious ego on you, and your elitist BS attitude is why people don't learn what they need to learn.

Thats some nice move when you have nothing smart to say

And remember for future 1st read whole post (in your case 5 times over) when you are sure you understand what its about only then you reply to it

Pleasure to meet you it was not

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We already have tutorials that help, the problem is where it stops helping, new players need direction, clear purpose and objective, suddenly stopping the way the tutorials leave new players lost and alone, leading to them leaving the game, assuming they got past the modding menu.

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11 hours ago, Aldain said:

It's not that Steel Path exists as 90% of the game, but rather that 90% of the game is buried under bloat solely so Steel Path can exist.

DE having to increase enemy numbers by 200+% just to remain remotely competitive with even 50% of that multiplication (because perfectly maximized builds will be hysterical overkill even on Steel Path) has the negative cascading effect of making anything below that power curve irrelevant or hopelessly easy on arrival.

Steel Path's existence is a symptom of the stat bloat problem in Warframe, and as many people will often remind us of on the forums, it still isn't enough because people are still effortlessly power-stomping everything into the ground.

To basically sum it up and answer this question:

It becomes a problem when hitting really hard passively invalidates everything else, not just for the sake of efficiency but as a default state of affairs in new content (most content on Deimos being tied to either timers or kill speed for example) and this keeps repeating with every new content release, we either have to wait for a timer to run out or murder everything as fast as possible or both most of the time.

When even a mediocre clown like me can brute force content with minimal optimization at best (usually "bare minimum sentience" is what I barely achieve) then there's a problem.

DE know that people want to passively invalidate content, so they release stuff that new players can relatively quickly have access to and veteran players can engage with by choice.

Steel Path isn’t competing with the power that we can choose to build for, it’s giving it a place to be tested. Even then some builds are crazy overpowered, but compared to what we had before where players were hanging around for hours in Mot, a lot of builds are tested and make it through SP to a certain point. Players are looking to justify their pride in their build in a stat-based challenge, but then once they make their build and live in it and then get bored, they insist on the paradoxical situation of “I have an overpowered build, it should be just enough to make it through”. It’s paradoxical because an overpowered build will not be “just enough power”, it was designed to overpower.

I’m not going to slap on all my mods in the most powerful combinations and then take it to Star Chart looking for a fight, I’m going to take it into Steel Path to see how my build fares, find out the answer, and then not use the build for Star Chart because it’s tuned for Steel Path.

I wrote in another topic that it feels like the difference between Nuke Build and Non-Nuke Build is academic to some players. I’m getting deja vu.

edit: We don’t even need a Serration until like level 30-40 (depends on the weapon and the mission). Start putting on elements that match weaknesses and level 45 is more like where we may need to start equipping Serration. The guns core power just needs a little boost to take on the fight, which means we can use something else on the gun. I want my Lato to punch through 2 meters of solid matter, so the longer I don’t have to replace Punch through, the better

double edit: Can you imagine what would happen if players were forced to engage with the content? Already the arguments of “I made my build so powerful, why you gotta dumb it down, DE?” are being remembered

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31 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Thats some nice move when you have nothing smart to say

And remember for future 1st read whole post (in your case 5 times over) when you are sure you understand what its about only then you reply to it

Pleasure to meet you it was not

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you clearly made this thread to signal how much better you think you are than a person asking questions in a chat. Did you private message him and tell him he can find that information in the market? No. You went and shamed the guy in General then asserted people doing what he did are incapable of higher thought. Again: You're part of the problem.

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17 minutes ago, Mints said:

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you clearly made this thread to signal how much better you think you are than a person asking questions in a chat. Did you private message him and tell him he can find that information in the market? No. You went and shamed the guy in General

That moment when you try to sound smart but you end up sounding stupid

I take it back all of it do whatever kind of videos you want to make i bet ppl will have as much entertainment from them as i from what u wrote
I mean if you will keep to be out of context in them then i bet it will be comedy gold just please be so kind and provide me with link to your youtube channel so i can subscribe for more humor

1 - I will be more than happy to admit that you are much better person than me if that will help you in any way (or that said person is better than me)

2 - What guy? Can you tell me what guy it was? Like point me or any1 to him or her? If you know his or hers gender? You are aware you are accusing me now of something i didnt do and saying something took place when it did not?
(that moment when you fail to understand we cover players nicknames and info that could let any1 identify them so we dont name and shame ppl but use screenshots from chat to prove a point and not prove something against certain individual)

3 - What problem did said person have? Cause as i see it he didnt have any since he knew where to find answer to what he didnt know so? (that moment when you fail to spot a difference between "hey i have problem i really could use some help with a mission" and "when baroo?")
Like i here made this topic with simple little question "do you genuinely believe tutorials in fact would help?" and does that mean i had a problem?
Again this fact alone that i need to explain to you things like that just proves i was right with everything i wrote about you
Having a question and having a problem are 2 different things
Someone could ask which node on MARS have interception and it would not mean said person have problem but just asked a question

4 - And yeah i didnt reach out to him didnt provide him with answer to his question but i came here with that screenshot and potentially educated far more ppl about HOW TO CHECK WHERE TO GET X ITEM by themselves rather than just replaying to 1 person in game with private message and educating only that 1 person
So as i see it i did my part ;)

Since you still are going off tipic here let me give you some tip about it
This topic is a question to forum users that are warframe players do they genuinely think that guides tutorials or additional info LOCATED IN GAME would in fact help when we have situations IN GAME like the one i presetned on screenshot
Where Mastery Rank 17 player is (most likely) too lazy to hotlink item name then click it and check where to get it and resorts to asking a question or simply (less likely) didnt know it could be checked like that

And since its MR17 have all info he needs right under 1 mouse click with item name he provided himself
HOW we can expect that tutorials or guides or additional info will help new or any players?

I know in your case no tutorial guide or additional info will help you understand what replying to a post is about so again i lose hope in any help would actually help some ppl
While at the same time i am all in for additional help in game

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Just now, ZeroX4 said:

That moment when you try to sound smart but you end up sounding stupid

You're the one typing up six paragraph posts to keep creating conflict instead of typing two sentences to tell the guy what he wanted to know.

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1 minute ago, Mints said:

You're the one typing up six paragraph posts to keep creating conflict instead of typing two sentences to tell the guy what he wanted to know.

Trust me i try to keep it as short as possible just so you could understand something
But in the end like with guides tutorials and info i just lose hope in your case

And if we are talking about contribution to the case
You still didnt post here anything valuable to the case contributing to the issue or answering initial question

Did you ever heard straw man argument? Rhetorical question you can google it but keep it for yourself

So by all means care to give any other prove of how little you have to say and how even less you have to contribute to initial problem?

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1 minute ago, ZeroX4 said:

Trust me i try to keep it as short as possible just so you could understand something

Yeah you keep it real short when you start your post by insulting my intelligence, because I know the rest of your post is garbage.

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For pic in question, for many people it's just their nature to just ask rather than go looking through written data to find an answer.  People ask questions all the time they could have just googled.  You quit the game because you didn't just google the wiki and read up on modding and how everything worked.  That's not me knocking you, that's just how some folks are, and I don't think that's wrong.  We all learn differently.

I've read nearly every page in the wiki because it's my nature to look for an answer in data rather than ask (It's also a really well done wiki.  Props to the team.)  I only ask when I can't find a definitive answer.  

I think a game with as much information as this needs a fairly long tutorial that's played out as a quest.  I learned nearly everything in the game the hard way.  I failed the practice MR test for parkour repeatedly because I didn't know you could bullet jump directionally and had honestly never tried, partially because it's a little awkward to do on a controller until you get used to it or use back paddle buttons since jump and directional control are the same thumb.  Yet there's a video on the wiki of how the test is done.  I watched this dude bullet jump straight up the part I was trying to wall jump up and my jaw dropped.  I face palmed pretty hard when I realized what a scrub I was.  I had been wall jumping up things that a double jump wouldn't clear.  A tutorial that showed players how to maneuver around different obstacles would have solved that before I even hit the test.  I get a little laugh to myself every time I get to teach this to someone new.  "You know you can bullet jump straight up, right?"  "WHAT?"  

A tutorial quest that requires you to mod a weapon using flawed elemental damage mods for specific elements would teach players that elemental mods combine and the game reads the mods left to right, top to bottom like a book.  Putting the codex pages in their relevant areas, like having an explanation of damage types and status effects available in the mod loadout screen would tremendously help new players.  "What's viral again?  Let me click this codex link in the upper right corner that the quest showed me so I can see which types to use."

Yes, I think a proper, competently done tutorial spaced over a couple of starter quests would help out a LOT with the number of super newbie questions in QA.  I honestly think they should just do something to honor/compensate the wiki team and cram as much of what they've done into the game in the respective locations as they can without it causing performance issues.  A lot more people would have more respect for Grendel if his expanded ability page listed that the damage from his 1 is multiplied by enemy level AND number of enemies currently in his stomach while stripping armor.  That's not the exact formula, but the wiki has the exact damage formula on it.  The game makes him look weak.  The wiki gives you the math on why he's a monster.  The game needs to do better.

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