Help me with Lich/Sister secondary, please!

[4thBro]

This is my Pyrana Prime.

(I have Primed Heated, but I would need to Forma one more time and simply have not done that yet. Partly due to my uncertainty of build, though...)

 

Ummm... What am I supposed to do???

Damage gating has my high DPS setups doing single digit damage per hit. From what I understand, the more you deal, the LESS you deal. And you kind of want to find a sweet spot of hitting the most allowed damage before an exponentially-growing damage gate starts kicking your ass. And multiple... ... multishots on a weapon help you sneak in more DPS.

 

So that's why I am trying out Pyrana Prime. It should fit the bill, right?

But... HOW do I set it up??? After using it on a couple Sisters and a Lich, I feel it's still being gated super hard, although it is doing better than my normal weapons & setups are. (Although melee doesn't do too bad on the health bar. Melee seems to mostly get held back on the energy shield.)

 

I... need help, please, lol.

This is all completely undefined in the game itself, I gotta come here for assistance.

[Deminisis]

Remember that Liches posses ferrite armor, which has +75% weakness to corrosive, and flesh, which is weak to viral (Kuva liches don't actually use cloned flesh). I wouldn't use magnetic, even if it's the weakness, since that is only +25%. Only swap it up if they are resistance or immune to corrosive, or bring a frame to strip armor values off of the lich.

[4thBro]

3 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

Remember that Liches posses ferrite armor, which has +75% weakness to corrosive, and flesh, which is weak to viral (Kuva liches don't actually use cloned flesh). I wouldn't use magnetic, even if it's the weakness, since that is only +25%. Only swap it up if they are resistance or immune to corrosive, or bring a frame to strip armor values off of the lich.

Thanks for responding.

----

Well, as I mention, their energy shield is the bigger issue, honestly. Which is why I went Magnetic. Their flesh is a non-issue.

And their armor doesn't apply to their shield, either, of course.

 

Either way, my bigger concern is about the damage gating. I know all about damage typings.

[Gibsonx]

Yes the high pellet guns are a good way around the gating. Melee works for sisters cause you can stun lock them with it. It doesn’t with liches cause they will throw you if you try. 

[4thBro]

Seems nobody really knows the answers here.

 

Like, I'm wondering if I'm better off taking some mods out, sandbagging the gun's damage so that it stays "under the radar". But testing this stuff is almost impossible, and EXTREMELY annoying, because you'd need the same Lich over and over.

[4thBro]

Just now, Gibsonx said:

Yes the high pellet guns are a good way around the gating. Melee works for sisters cause you can stun lock them with it. It doesn’t with liches cause they will throw you if you try. 

Thanks for the reply.

----

I want to know information on the gating, though. Like, what's the damage amount where it starts ramping up the gate mechanic?

 

I assume if your gun does 10 damage, it'll deal 10 damage to the Lich/Sister.

I assume if it does 50 damage, it'll deal 50 damage.

But cut to a distant number, and if your gun does 500,000 damage, it will deal 7 damage. (Or whatnot.)

 

So... at what point is the gate starting?

Edited October 3, 2021 by 4thBro

[Gibsonx]

For exact check wiki, it should have the numbers. But from memory of things like hemocyte 250-500 per shot with Titania. I did not alter build beyond making sure I had corrosive. I didn’t try to min max, and I didn’t pay attention to the numbers that showed up when using pyrana. 
 

edit. And to be clear I am saying you shouldn’t need to remove damage from build. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Gibsonx

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

15 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Thanks for the reply.

----

I want to know information on the gating, though. Like, what's the damage amount where it starts ramping up the gate mechanic?

 

I assume if your gun does 10 damage, it'll deal 10 damage to the Lich/Sister.

I assume if it does 50 damage, it'll deal 50 damage.

But cut to a distant number, and if your gun does 500,000 damage, it will deal 7 damage. (Or whatnot.)

 

So... at what point is the gate starting?

Technically, the formula for the gating starts at 1 damage, but it has such a small impact that you won't notice.

Note that there are some damage calculations that occur after the gate. These include Faction damage mods, warframe buffs that do not affect base damage (so Roar, or any enemy vulnerability debuff). and the secondary elemental calculations on elemental DoT statuses (but since you are limited to 4 of those, they really don't matter). So as long as you slap a cleanse/expel/bane of corpus/grineer mod on the gun, and use a frame that can increase your damage after the gate, it should be an easy kill.

[4thBro]

22 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Technically, the formula for the gating starts at 1 damage, but it has such a small impact that you won't notice.

Note that there are some damage calculations that occur after the gate. These include Faction damage mods, warframe buffs that do not affect base damage (so Roar, or any enemy vulnerability debuff). and the secondary elemental calculations on elemental DoT statuses (but since you are limited to 4 of those, they really don't matter). So as long as you slap a cleanse/expel/bane of corpus/grineer mod on the gun, and use a frame that can increase your damage after the gate, it should be an easy kill.

Well I have an Expel.

I read/heard statuses can apply (for the sake of C.O.-type mods), but they don't actually do anything. I imagine that's also for dots?

 

The thing is, the gate isn't a cap, but an exponentially-growing percentage reduction. The MORE you do, the LESS you do, and you will do more damage with weaker hits. That is, up to a point, until you start going under a certain damage amount where the gating is weaker than the hit itself, and you wanna hover in that range.

 

My massive melee swings do 7 damage.

But my pathetic Pyrana pellets do 77+ damage each.

It's almost like an inverse. In fact, I may take out Hornet and see if that makes me deal MORE damage.

Edited October 3, 2021 by 4thBro

[(PSN)zj0ker20]

Remember to take your Lich/Sister's weaknesses, resistances, and immunities into account.