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Out of bounds, self damage and risk


(XBOX)Ancient Mutt
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When falling into a chasm or lava, whatever, I think it should take a life. I also want self-damage back so that you kill yourself if you're lazy with aiming a weapon (including shooting your foot with a Lato by accident or something like that). 

As a measure for fall damage, we could have companion mods that use tractor beams that lift us back out at the cost of being vulnerable to enemy damage (a Grineer could still shoot the drone or hound to cancel the rescue attempt).

So yeah, bad parkour and bad aim could fail the mission. I want that element of risk. 

Why was that taken away? I still don't understand why self-damage was switched off. 

Not sure if fall damage/death was ever a thing before. I only started playing 2 years ago so have no idea about before then.

If a compromise is necessary, what if we have the option to turn on these risk factors in settings ourselves with reminders on loading screens that they're on?

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4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

When falling into a chasm or lava, whatever, I think it should take a life.

No

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

I also want self-damage back so that you kill yourself if you're lazy with aiming a weapon (including shooting your foot with a Lato by accident or something like that). 
 

Hell no. Find a different game if you want this type of “challenge”. 

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

 

So yeah, bad parkour and bad aim could fail the mission. I want that element of risk. 
 

Thats not risk. Thats a on-off switch for life.

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

Why was that taken away? I still don't understand why self-damage was switched off. 
 

Because it was a bad system for a game like warframe. It caused AoE weapons to be rarely used except for with certain frames (looking at you revenant) and it didnt provide a satisfactory game loop. As someone said in another topic, it wasnt self damage, it was self annihilation. 

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

Not sure if fall damage/death was ever a thing before. I only started playing 2 years ago so have no idea about before then.

No. Not that Ive been aware of. 

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

If a compromise is necessary, what if we have the option to turn on these risk factors in settings ourselves with reminders on loading screens that they're on?

No. 

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9 minutes ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

When falling into a chasm or lava, whatever, I think it should take a life. I also want self-damage back so that you kill yourself if you're lazy with aiming a weapon (including shooting your foot with a Lato by accident or something like that). 

As a measure for fall damage, we could have companion mods that use tractor beams that lift us back out at the cost of being vulnerable to enemy damage (a Grineer could still shoot the drone or hound to cancel the rescue attempt).

So yeah, bad parkour and bad aim could fail the mission. I want that element of risk. 

Why was that taken away? I still don't understand why self-damage was switched off. 

Not sure if fall damage/death was ever a thing before. I only started playing 2 years ago so have no idea about before then.

If a compromise is necessary, what if we have the option to turn on these risk factors in settings ourselves with reminders on loading screens that they're on?

I liked the self damage (not because of some challenge). At the same time, it's gone for good and DE won't bring it back.

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2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

its not just about being lazy, if you fired a rocket and some teammate ran in front of you, or your kubrow decided to cuddle you then you died.

This. I used to kill myself so much with the zarr because of teammates. Even firing from the upper stratosphere isn't always safe. As for drops, some of them look like they are things you should be able to land on, but then you either fly right through them or hit a boundary. Some tiles have vertical boundaries too where if you go too high up it acts like you fell down a hole. I think the penalty of not being able to move for several seconds (potentially getting you killed in high level gameplay) and having all of your abilities canceled is enough. 

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2 minutes ago, Exaltas said:

This. I used to kill myself so much with the zarr because of teammates. Even firing from the upper stratosphere isn't always safe. As for drops, some of them look like they are things you should be able to land on, but then you either fly right through them or hit a boundary. Some tiles have vertical boundaries too where if you go too high up it acts like you fell down a hole. I think the penalty of not being able to move for several seconds (potentially getting you killed in high level gameplay) and having all of your abilities canceled is enough. 

Remember how the acceltra, a gun with built is mechanics to make it next to impossible to kill yourself with self damage, could still easily kill you

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24 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

its not just about being lazy, if you fired a rocket and some teammate ran in front of you, or your kubrow decided to cuddle you then you died.

Or you stick an Osprey with a Zhuge Prime arrow and the Osprey charges at you.

If we must remove self-stagger and opt for something else, I'd still and forever forward a weakening effect that greatly increases the player's vulnerability to enemy fire – perhaps with an upper-body-only stun that briefly prevents firing – so that it's neither a bothersome knock-down nor a guaranteed death sentence.

Also, fall damage in a game that has Heavy Impact as a mod is just funny.

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Given the completely imbalanced nature of the game, often unavoidable enemy knockdown spam, and the completely ridiculously designed out of bounds areas, this sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

I am good with the parkour and movement in general.  When I do make a mistake (like when I'm playing while inebriated.) 9 times out of 10 I can recover from that using the movement system, with the main problem being counted out of bounds before I have a chance to do anything about it.  There are so many places in this game where you can literally land on surfaces or cling to walls that will out-of-bounds you back to the rest of the map without giving you the chance to recover because many of them were designed like that before we had the movement system that we do and you needed the reset.  

I'm already losing all my buffs because the game doesn't trust me to get out of a hole that I can 100% get out of blindfolded and drunk.  I don't need to lose a revive on top of that.

I mean, there's people that use the parkour system to purposefully move outside the map, or cover crazy distances trying to reach the Cetus Tower or go through custom obstacle courses.  If anything the no-go zones need to be revised to allow more freedom of movement and better reflect the movement system we currently have and not cancel buffs for people that want to explore a little.

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Sure lets add self damage back into the game but with a twist. If you accidentally hit your team mate with an explosive weapon it not only blows up in your face but theirs too. 

Lets not stop there. Just make friendly fire a thing for any weapon or ability. 

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6 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Sure lets add self damage back into the game but with a twist. If you accidentally hit your team mate with an explosive weapon it not only blows up in your face but theirs too. 

Lets not stop there. Just make friendly fire a thing for any weapon or ability. 

You can already do this! In a controlled environment situation in the simulacrum, or an uncontrolled situation know as rad sorties xD

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1 hour ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Because it was a bad system for a game like warframe. It caused AoE weapons to be rarely used except for with certain frames (looking at you revenant) and it didnt provide a satisfactory game loop. As someone said in another topic, it wasnt self damage, it was self annihilation.

And now the only weapons being used are the AoE ones. Why would I use a rifle if I can use a bazooka like a shotgun that kills everyone in the room?

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1 hour ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Because it was a bad system for a game like warframe. It caused AoE weapons to be rarely used except for with certain frames (looking at you revenant) and it didnt provide a satisfactory game loop. As someone said in another topic, it wasnt self damage, it was self annihilation. 

DE's official response was that it was heavily abused by Chroma Players running Eidolon Hunts.  With a proper self-damaging weapon, players could EASILY max Vex Armor before encountering an Eidolon. 

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Haha, "risk". Sorry but the casuals won't allow such a mechanic to exist in the game.

Also fall damage was never a thing though there may have been a point where falling in a dead zone caused you to lose your shields? While self damage got replaced with self stagger because the idea of not shooting explosives at your own feet and being too slow and immobile to not accidentally shoot a team mate was too hard for players. So the game got another level of dumbing down to cater to them.

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I want to bullet jump over wheat I see to be a fairly large put to get to the other side of a tile, where I can see the area lead onto the next tile and carry on with a mission.

The jump is long, but easily achievable if you're good at parkour and momentum sustain. 

I make the jump, can clearly see I have more than enough momentum to safely reach the other side and carry on. 

The game says "Nope" and treats it like I've gone out of bounds or fallen and resets me back where I was. 

This happens pretty often on Ceres tile sets.

Orokin assault course rooms is another. I do the course and reach the door in good time, time enough i can run through without needing to crouch. Game has a fit and respawns me a few feet back, like I've gone out of bounds or got crushed.

Again, this happens on a not too uncommon frequency and can happen repeatedly.

Similar things happen on other maps crossing one tile to another. No rhyme or reason as the threshold is a big open space, archway or hole in a wall.

This would fail a lot of missions if people were punished with losing lives because the game is treating us like we've gone out of bounds or run into an environmental hazard.

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1 hour ago, ReddyDisco said:

One of my all time favorite games, enjoyed DS2 too even though it got a lot of flak at first

i'm more of a ninja gaiden guy.

you know, old god of war series, devil may cry... last game i enjoyed was sekiro. everything on hardest difficulties of course.

pretty excited for bayonetta 3. very few games made my broke down and cry, but getting pure platinums on infinite climax difficulty did.

 

might sound like a brag. but it's not.

more like a message that even the most hardcore of gamers does not necessarily demand challenge from games that are not supposed to challenge its playerbase.
people who want challenge? i humbly invite you to getting all pure platinums on infinite climax in bayonetta 2 and 3 (first game doesn't count because of the killgore bug).

Edited by Soy77
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20 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

i'm more of a ninja gaiden guy.

you know, old god of war series, devil may cry... last game i enjoyed was sekiro. everything on hardest difficulties of course.

pretty excited for bayonetta 3. very few games made my broke down and cry, but getting pure platinums on infinite climax difficulty did.

 

might sound like a brag. but it's not.

more like a message that even the most hardcore of gamers does not necessarily demand challenge from games that are not supposed to challenge its playerbase.
people who want challenge? i humbly invite you to getting all pure platinums on infinite climax in bayonetta 2 and 3 (first game doesn't count because of the killgore bug).

Oh i agree, some games are made to test players and make them 'cry' as you will. You are bound to have more fun in those than others not made for it

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5 hours ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

When falling into a chasm or lava, whatever, I think it should take a life. I also want self-damage back so that you kill yourself if you're lazy with aiming a weapon (including shooting your foot with a Lato by accident or something like that). 

As a measure for fall damage, we could have companion mods that use tractor beams that lift us back out at the cost of being vulnerable to enemy damage (a Grineer could still shoot the drone or hound to cancel the rescue attempt).

So yeah, bad parkour and bad aim could fail the mission. I want that element of risk. 

Why was that taken away? I still don't understand why self-damage was switched off. 

Not sure if fall damage/death was ever a thing before. I only started playing 2 years ago so have no idea about before then.

If a compromise is necessary, what if we have the option to turn on these risk factors in settings ourselves with reminders on loading screens that they're on?

Self damage was disabled because of Chroma. Chroma could use self damage to make the game even easier, not harder.

I also really don’t like your idea about punishing falls. There’s enough cheap deaths in the game as it is. To change the process from a quick 1 second reset, to an almost in game cutscene where you have to wait for your companions AI to walk over to you and begin lifting you up?

Truly awful idea that would grate against the pace of the game.

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9 hours ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

When falling into a chasm or lava, whatever, I think it should take a life.

There are too many places where we are not even close to fall, but the game takes it as falling down. Sure, DE should fix these anyway, but falling to death with a warframe that can climb and jump on everything is silly. DE just uses the fall and reset effect to keep us bound to the routes they think we should move on. If chasms punished us more than taking away all our buffs, then those should be way deeper to let us try to climb back instead of suddenly dying 2 meters below surface.
That being said, I'm against this idea.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

I also want self-damage back so that you kill yourself if you're lazy with aiming a weapon (including shooting your foot with a Lato by accident or something like that). 

That would be alright if it would be % health with spam protection (like 1-0,5s) instead of instadeaths. It would stop us spamming aoe weapons, but still let us use them without getting rekt in 0,0001s because some pixel decided to perform a "get down mister president".

9 hours ago, (XBOX)General Poke said:

As a measure for fall damage, we could have companion mods that use tractor beams that lift us back out at the cost of being vulnerable to enemy damage (a Grineer could still shoot the drone or hound to cancel the rescue attempt).

Instead of fall damage, we are stuck in a super hero landing animation. It could also damage, I honestly don't care about it, as it would be easily avoidable by landing with slide, aim glide or resetting the height of fall with a double jump.

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