Trinity's Link Duration is Outdated

[viperveteran]

A long time Trinity player here and I have realised that Trinity's link duration is outdated as it is really short in comparison to frames with similar damage reduction abilities when using primed continuity. With primed continuity her link (pic A) only lasts 18.6 seconds which is significantly lower than nidus' parasitic link 93s (B), Chroma's elemental ward 38.75s (C) and Gara's Splinter storm 34.1s (D). What makes it even more of an issue is that it is significantly shorter and it doesn't even offer a damage multiplier potential like all the others. I am not requesting that a damage multiplier be added (although I wouldn't mind) but I really think that Trinity's link duration is outdated compared to similar abilities on other frames. It would really promote build diversity too as it would make her link more appealing than just the standard EV and Bless builds.

A

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B

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C

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D

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Thank you

[Rawbeard]

EV trin builds need a downside, I guess

[viperveteran]

48 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

EV trin builds need a downside, I guess

EV trin runs with duration reducing mods and the link duration has been the same before EV trin was even a thing.

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

EV trin builds need a downside, I guess

The game already has other Warframes that can contribute to constant energy without even requiring an actual target. The only thing she does over the other options is both easy refill of health and shields, but in this day, providing shields is enough and some do that and more.

[(PSN)c1234567890alvi]

I hate how underrated Trinity is, considering she is such a powerful frame and I think a few quality of life tweaks would help her out immensely. So yeah, more duration on her 3 would be great, I think.

[taiiat]

Trinity already is appealing for more than Vampire Leech or Healing support.
"building for Link", aka not having absolutely terrible Range, is already what you want for Healing support, as it makes you dramatically more durable than the rest of your Squad.

 

if anything, the thing that Link needs to be more appealing (the most needs), is that DR stacking nerf to be reverted :)
but, other adjustments could do something too.

[viperveteran]

21 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Trinity already is appealing for more than Vampire Leech or Healing support.
"building for Link", aka not having absolutely terrible Range, is already what you want for Healing support, as it makes you dramatically more durable than the rest of your Squad.

 

if anything, the thing that Link needs to be more appealing (the most needs), is that DR stacking nerf to be reverted :)
but, other adjustments could do something too.

Whilst that would be nice, I do think that the duration is probably a better QOL than stacking DR, not saying they can't both be done but when I play link trinity the duration is more of an issue than staying alive for me. When I play the other mentioned frames the gameplay is more fluid because I don't have to stop every 18 secs to ensure her DR is up. I think it would be an adjustment that would have little to no impact on the balancing of the game, whilst incentivising build diversity and bringing link in line with all the other duration based DR abilities. 

 

42 minutes ago, (PSN)c1234567890alvi said:

I hate how underrated Trinity is, considering she is such a powerful frame and I think a few quality of life tweaks would help her out immensely. So yeah, more duration on her 3 would be great, I think.

Exactly.

 

[Teridax68]

I'm in full agreement. Trinity has a few aspects of her old design that make her less fun to play than she deserves to be, but one of those aspects is that her base durations are extremely short, forcing her to spam Link and Blessing if she wants to maintain constant DR. Increasing Link's base duration would help a lot.

However, I also feel that with Link, one could potentially go further, and make it a drain-based toggle, rather than a duration-based ability: because the ability is something Trinity will usually want to have at all times, it would make sense for the ability to not need a constant refresh, as that's something she does with Blessing's DR anyways. Drain-based toggles are generally a bad idea on most frames because they disable Energy regeneration, but Trinity is one of the few frames where that's not a major issue, because Energy Vampire provides Energy even with a drain active (it is, in fact, designed to counter Energy drains). Turning Link into a toggle that continually drains Energy would therefore not only work well for Trinity's kit, but could in fact contribute further to her gameplay loop by encouraging her to constantly top up on Energy via EV.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, viperveteran said:

whilst incentivising build diversity

i don't think it would do that at all, probably the opposite even, but ultimately i don't have an opinion on the request.

[viperveteran]

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I'm in full agreement. Trinity has a few aspects of her old design that make her less fun to play than she deserves to be, but one of those aspects is that her base durations are extremely short, forcing her to spam Link and Blessing if she wants to maintain constant DR. Increasing Link's base duration would help a lot.

However, I also feel that with Link, one could potentially go further, and make it a drain-based toggle, rather than a duration-based ability: because the ability is something Trinity will usually want to have at all times, it would make sense for the ability to not need a constant refresh, as that's something she does with Blessing's DR anyways. Drain-based toggles are generally a bad idea on most frames because they disable Energy regeneration, but Trinity is one of the few frames where that's not a major issue, because Energy Vampire provides Energy even with a drain active (it is, in fact, designed to counter Energy drains). Turning Link into a toggle that continually drains Energy would therefore not only work well for Trinity's kit, but could in fact contribute further to her gameplay loop by encouraging her to constantly top up on Energy via EV.

Blessing would also be nice too. 

 

My only concern with the drain ability change is that it would be quite invasive which could prompt a whole rework of the move in order to balance it which could then lead to link being changed like DE have done with other frames that they have reworked. If they would change it without reworking it completely that would definitely be an interesting idea. 

 

Currently the only thing that I want in DE's crosshairs for a rework is Well of Life! 🤣

[Leqesai]

26 minutes ago, viperveteran said:

Currently the only thing that I want in DE's crosshairs for a rework is Well of Life! 🤣

They already changed Well of Life to be a fairly useful ability. What else do you want done to it?

[viperveteran]

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

i don't think it would do that at all, probably the opposite even, but ultimately i don't have an opinion on the request.

maybe you could elaborate

[viperveteran]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

They already changed Well of Life to be a fairly useful ability. What else do you want done to it?

It still seems fairly redundant to be fair so anything really.

 

I don't really want to derail the topic but a power that clears negative status effects from her team mates is the only thing she is missing from a theme perspective, although that could just be added to blessing. She is a quintessential white mage so she could get a cycling ability to reduce energy costs/increase range/casting speed on a herself or specific target. There is room for something new for her 1 but I'd like to see link (and blessing) to get up to date durations to bring them in line with similar powers that newer warframes have, hers are horribly outdated.

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, viperveteran said:

Blessing would also be nice too. 

Indeed. I think one of the lingering issues with Trinity as well is that Blessing and Link both provide DR that she then has to stack for herself, which is a bit awkward. They fulfil slightly different functions (one buffs allies, the other doesn't), but there is so much overlap that it may still be better to find a way to condense them.

1 hour ago, viperveteran said:

My only concern with the drain ability change is that it would be quite invasive which could prompt a whole rework of the move in order to balance it which could then lead to link being changed like DE have done with other frames that they have reworked. If they would change it without reworking it completely that would definitely be an interesting idea. 

I mean, hopefully not, the only change should be to make the thing drain-based instead of duration-based. The core ability isn't perfect, but wouldn't need to change around this.

1 hour ago, viperveteran said:

Currently the only thing that I want in DE's crosshairs for a rework is Well of Life! 🤣

I do very much agree that Well of Life is an outdated ability that needs a complete redo, yeah. It's one of those old 1 abilities that's a mini-version of her 4, and as a result it's completely redundant.

[NinjaZeku]

All of my yes.

The base durations of Blessing and Link might have been ~okay back in the day when (Warframe was a different game and)
they gave 100% invincibility / allowed map nuking and all that fun stuff (RIP infinite range heals),
but nowadays any Frame shipping with those values would just get laughed at.

As an alternative though, I still think it wouldn't be too much to turn Link into a "conditional drain" toggle type,
only draining Energy when linked to enemies, and of course allowing Energy gains from EV etc.

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, viperveteran said:

maybe you could elaborate

if more features are retained without keeping Duration in mind, then you get more features that Trinity can offer at the same time.
that's pretty much the definition of reduced diversity, one set of Mods gives you more and other sets of Mods don't offer as much.

but it's not that big a deal.

[PsiWarp]

I wouldn't mind if they booped it up to 20~25 seconds, since you need at least 1 enemy in range to benefit from the DR anyway, give you a bit more time to find em' before you have to recast.

[Skaleek]

Totally agree, link duration base is pitiful

[ShortCat]

On 2021-10-04 at 10:18 PM, viperveteran said:

It still seems fairly redundant to be fair so anything really.

Cast WoL on an enemy, link yourself to it and enjoy generous HP regen while you stand in its AoE. Doing so grants you a guaranteed Link target and lets you tank without the need to recast Blessing every few seconds to refill your HP.

[Lutesque]

On 2021-10-04 at 10:41 AM, taiiat said:

Trinity already is appealing for more than Vampire Leech or Healing support.
"building for Link", aka not having absolutely terrible Range, is already what you want for Healing support, as it makes you dramatically more durable than the rest of your Squad

It would be nice if Link Actually increases Trinity's Threat Level.... 

On 2021-10-04 at 10:41 AM, taiiat said:

 

if anything, the thing that Link needs to be more appealing (the most needs), is that DR stacking nerf to be reverted :)
but, other adjustments could do something too

Did people actually Stack DR before ? I always only used a Single Source.... Basically what this means is I never put Adaptation on Mesa, Gauss or Ember.... Seemed pointless....also Mod Slots are Precious 😱 !!!

 

[taiiat]

49 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

It would be nice if Link Actually increases Trinity's Threat Level.... 

 

Did people actually Stack DR before ? I always only used a Single Source.... Basically what this means is I never put Adaptation on Mesa, Gauss or Ember.... Seemed pointless....also Mod Slots are Precious 😱 !!!

just be the Host, that's all the Threat Level increase you'll ever need, right? hah.

 

well, Trinity inherently has two types of DR to stack. for other Warframes i sometimes would be. stacking Armor and something else isn't that uncommon and that counts as stacking DR.
i don't remember right now but i think i do have Adaptation on Mesa and Ember. for the former because Status Effects and Melee hurt a lot, yo. and the latter because micromanaging the Bar is way more effort than i'm interested in. i'll just take the base 50% and then stack it with something else.