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I have the ULTIMATE idea for a Steelpath Lich System that will upgrade ALL of the existing weapons in the game


(PSN)ToiletFromFuture
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I think i just have one the greatest Steelpath endgame idea that not only adresses alot of complaints people have with the current lich system, but also gives the ENTIRE tenno arsenal (except the Kuva and Tenet weapons) a big boost so that they can at least compete with the likes of "Kuva Bramma" and "Kuva Zarr" AND it will very likely bring more players into playing the Steelpath starchart regularly.

 

 

 

May i present to you : The Specter Liches

 

 

So the entire premise of this lich system is to give all of the weapons in tenno arsenal (with the exception of Kuva and Tenet weapons) a boost to bring every weapon in the arsenal to the same standards as Kuva and Tenet weapons.

 

You may ask, what kind of a boost? The answer is simple : A Progenitor based Innate Element within the same elements that the current lich system has. Here's the Wiki page for the reference.

 

Then you may ask, how would all of that work?

Worry not, as i'll now delve deep into all the details surrounding this system.

 

 

 

1) How do i get my desired innate element on my weapon of choice?

 

First of all, this system should be exclusive to the Steelpath. So the first thing the player has to do is to equip their weapon of choice and switch from the Origin System to the Steelpath.

Now this is where this system changes drastically from the lich system we currently have :

In order to get the desired element on the weapon you want, you have to select a Steelpath Junction and Mercy Kill the Specter that represents the element you desire. Basically, Steelpath Junction Specters act as both Kuva Larvling/Sister Candidate and Progenitor at the same time.

So for example, i want to have Innate Fire Element on my Acceltra, i have to go to the Saturn Junction and Mercy Kill the Ember Specter after downing her with my Acceltra. Then my Specter Lich will have an Acceltra with Innate Fire.

Note that you MUST deplete the last ticks of the Specter's healthbar with the weapon you want your lich to have, so for example if i take out 90% of the Ember Specter's health with my Acceltra, but finish the remaining 10% with my Akarius and then mercy kill the Ember Specter, my Specter Lich will result in Akarius with Innate Heat instead of the Acceltra.

 

This system will guarantee you to get the exact weapon you want with the innate element you want in a much shorter amount of time. No more headaches for running the same mission countless times to find your desired weapon while using a frame that you might not be used to play.

 

 

 

2) What will my Specter Lich be based on?

What will they look like?

Will their weapon look any different from my weapon?

 

 

Your Specter Lich will be randomized within the progenitor element you chose. So when i Mercy Killed the Ember Specter in the Saturn Junction, my Lich will be chosen randomly among the Frames that are Fire Progenitor (Chroma, Ember, Inaros, Nezha, Protea, Vauban, Wisp).

The Specters can be either the regular version of a frame or the prime version, it depends whether you chose a regular weapon to kill the Junction Specter or a prime weapon. (Note that if the chosen Specter does not have a prime variant, it will simply appear as the regular version...also Excalibur Prime and Umbra are excluded from the Specter possibility).

As for the color palette of the Specter, it will be based on the colors your weapon had when you killed the Junction Specter.

The Specters can have randomized attachments & syndana within a limited selection picked by the developers.

The weapon will not look any different from the weapon you chose. It would be ALOT of work for DE to make a new variant for all of the weapons so they will look exactly the same, but they will retain the same color palette that you had when you Mercy Killed the Junction Specter to match the look of your Specter Lich aswell.

 

 

 

3) What determines the value of the Innate Element on my Specter Lich's weapon?

What is the progression like?

 

 

Here's another major change from DE's RNG based Innate Element values:

Your Specter Lich will ALWAYS start at 20% Element, but the element will go higher every time the Lich level ups.

So the level 1 Specter's Weapon will have a 20% innate element,

Level 2 will have 30%,

Level 3 will have 40%,

Level 4 will have 50%,

And finally the max level lich which is 5 will have the capped 60% innate element.

This change will entirely remove the nonesense RNG based element values and make it into a High Risk, High Reward showdown between you and your Specter Lich. If you want the highest element, you have to face off against the most dangerous of the enemies in warframe.

 

The progression starts from the planet that your Specter Lich originated from, the planet of the origin will be your lich's first sector. After your lich level ups, the progression becomes more linear and the next 4 planets will be fixed planets for everyone in order to keep the matchmaking saturated.

The process of killing your Specter Lich will be very similar to the Kuva Liches and Sisters of Parvos, with one exception:

For Kuva Liches we have Thralls and for Sisters of Parvos we have Hounds, but for Specter Liches we will have to deal with the Decoy Specters (Holographic copies of our Specter Lich). You heard that right! They will look exactly like how Loki's Decoy looks but applied to the looks of your lich and they have all the abilities and arsenal of your Specter Lich to kill you, only difference being they have much less health but still more health than hounds. The way they spawn is similar to how Acolytes and Shadow Stalker spawn, but the screen will only flash once and they immediately spawn. This is to keep the player on their edge as if their Specter Lich can spawn at any given moment. Only up to 3 of them can spawn per mission, the spawn times & the murmur progress they give you is similar to Sisters Hounds.

The rest of the progression is the Parazon Trial and Error exactly like the Kuva Liches and Sisters of Parvos.

After you defeat your Specter Lich, they will flee to the Veil Proxima for the final showdown.

 

 

 

4) Where do i have to fight my Specter Lich on Veil Proxima?

What does the final fight looks like?

Can i convert my Specter Lich and make them into my ally?

 

 

You'll face of against your Specter Lich on Murex (Sentient Ship) in Veil Proxima. The mission is on a fixed node for everyone so do not worry about the rotation of Murex in Veil Proxima, the Murex will always be available for your Specter Lich Confrontation mission.

The Murex ship's tileset will be randomized in a way that each player's Specter Lich will have their own open area, and between each Specter Lich's area there will be one of those flying tube sections to progress to the next Lich area.

 

When you enter the boss area of your Specter Lich, you have to Mercy Kill a number of Decoy Specters in order for your Specter Lich to spawn. The number of Decoy Specters you have to kill depends on the level of your Specter Lich (e.g. lv1 = 1 Decoy, lv5 = 5 Decoys).

After that your Specter Lich will spawn for the final showdown.

You will only be able to vanquish your Specter Liches, and they cannot be converted into your ally.

 

 

 

5) After vanquishing my Specter Lich, what will happen to the weapon?

Will i be able to earn their ephemera after vanquishing them?

What do i do with the original copy of my weapon that i invested Catalyst, Forma, Focus Lens and Arcane Adapter into?

Does that increase your weapon mastery rank cap from 30 to 40?

 

 

You will earn both the weapon and the ephemera in your inbox, the weapon will stay in your foundry until you claim it.

 

The best part, you will be able to Valence Fusion the Specter Lich weapon into your original weapon, the result will be your original weapon with the Innate Element of the Specter Lich weapon.

 

I'm torn whether this should increase the mastery cap or not, on one hand that increases the mod capacity similarly to Kuva and Tenet weapons, giving the players more build possibilities...

But on the other hand, having to forma every weapon in the arsenal 5 times to hit the mastery cap is absurd. If they remove the 5 forma requirement and those weapons come with the cap of 40 at default, and also increase the cap of the weapon they are valence fused into, then it'll be a great addition.

 

 

This was a long one so if you read through all of it i appreciate you, suggestions and feedbacks are also welcome.

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35 minutes ago, (PSN)ToiletFromFuture said:

But on the other hand, having to forma every weapon in the arsenal 5 times to hit the mastery cap is absurd. If they remove the 5 forma requirement and those weapons come with the cap of 40 at default, and also increase the cap of the weapon they are valence fused into, then it'll be a great addition.

I do think it either has to use the current system with Forma, or stay at 30. That would be what, around 2000-3000 Forma? (considering duplicates, extra Forma etc.)

35 minutes ago, (PSN)ToiletFromFuture said:

but also gives the ENTIRE tenno arsenal (except the Kuva and Tenet weapons) a big boost so that they can at least compete with the likes of "Kuva Bramma" and "Kuva Zarr" AND it will very likely bring more players into playing the Steelpath starchart regularly

Have you considered just how much effort this would be, and how long it would actually take? If increased mastery was on offer then people would have to go through the entire ever increasing list. It sounds like a massive amount of effort for everyone if we have to do that. Also consider how many weapons would actually benefit. Don’t forget the other side, this could be detrimental to weapons you want to use for status procs - having an extra +40% cold damage doesn’t help me cause slash or toxin procs.


You say “every weapon” but it seems redundant to let us buff a Zarr, or Detron when Kuva/Tenet variants exist already. How would this be handled?

Edited by krc473
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1 hour ago, krc473 said:

Have you considered just how much effort this would be, and how long it would actually take? If increased mastery was on offer then people would have to go through the entire ever increasing list. It sounds like a massive amount of effort for everyone if we have to do that. Also consider how many weapons would actually benefit.

They don't have to change any of the weapon stats, they don't have to change how the weapons function and they don't have to change how the weapons look. They have done all of the above with the Kuva/Tenet weapons.

And like i said, i was torn on the mastery cap topic but i was leaning more to the side of no mastery cap increase, i even mentioned how absurd it would be to forma every weapon 5 times. But the upside would be the increased mod capacity. I guess they could increase the cap to 40 without needing 5 forma but it doesn't give additional mastery ranks?

Also the innate element is just a simple system that they can apply to every weapon without having to go through every single weapon to change the stats like how they do it with the Kuva/Tenet.

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

Don’t forget the other side, this could be detrimental to weapons you want to use for status procs - having an extra +40% cold damage doesn’t help me cause slash or toxin procs.

But are they "Forced" to add an innate element when they can already slap a Hunter Munitions along with viral? If it can negatively impact their builds, they can just not valence fusion an innate element into their weapon.

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

You say “every weapon” but it seems redundant to let us buff a Zarr, or Detron when Kuva/Tenet variants exist already. How would this be handled?

But that's the point, if they let us add the innate element to every weapon, players are free to apply the element to any weapon they like. Adding innate element to zarr is probably stupid when you have the superior kuva zarr, but the entire premise of it is to bring all the weapons that are outside the Kuva/Tenet circle to the same standards as them.

If they don't want to let us add innate to every weapon outside the Kuva/Tenet, they could let us use this system for the tenno exclusive weapons.

Then we will have Kuva Liches, which give you upgraded version of the grineer weapons,

Sisters of Parvos, which give you upgraded version of corpus weapons,

And Specter Liches which give you upgraded tenno weapons...(which is already prime weapons)

But i'm still against the idea of it being limited to one category.

When i thought about the Specter Liches idea, i thought of it as the absolute endgame system that let the player do as they will with their weapon of choice. There are plenty of older weapons right now that can't even compete with the like of Kuva Bramma and Zarr, even with a disposition 5 and Groll riven.

The Specter Lich system can let every weapon to at least live up to the same standards as the Kuva/Tenet weapons. All they have to do is to make the innate element feature universally available to all the weapons, that's it.

Edited by (PSN)ToiletFromFuture
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Even using only existing models that are already in game, the amount off coding they'd need to do would be a lot. Not to mention the amount of database storage it would take to DOUBLE the hundreds of weapons we already have. Potentially even more when you factor in different percentages. 

Otherwise as a concept "tenno" faction liches is an interesting idea, but why make the confrontation on a sentient murex, as opposed to say, an orokin tower?

Beyond all that as interesting an idea as it is, I don't think it would be a good idea to implement. By making every weapon like the lich ones, what is the point of the lich weapons? By doing this the lich system looses what makes it unique (whether or not that is a good unique is up to opinion).

Side note, this will not help underused weapons compete as the better ones will only be made even more insane and people will continue to choose them.

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11 hours ago, (PSN)ToiletFromFuture said:

They don't have to change any of the weapon stats, they don't have to change how the weapons function and they don't have to change how the weapons look. They have done all of the above with the Kuva/Tenet weapons.

You seem to have misunderstood. I meant “how much effort for the players?”

  • Edit: note that this comment was also primarily in relation to an increase in mastery points. There is a reason to collect them all if you get mastery.
11 hours ago, (PSN)ToiletFromFuture said:

But are they "Forced" to add an innate element when they can already slap a Hunter Munitions along with viral? If it can negatively impact their builds, they can just not valence fusion an innate element into their weapon.

That is true. I was more thinking around giving mastery for 31-40 though. In that case people would want to use the new weapon system for mastery points. You are correct in that no one would be forced into it though.

  • An easy way to keep the percentage low would be another option. A +30% can be more useful than a +60% for some builds. I am a fan of your suggestion to not use RNG for this, but keeping the percentage low could be problematic.
11 hours ago, (PSN)ToiletFromFuture said:

But that's the point, if they let us add the innate element to every weapon, players are free to apply the element to any weapon they like. Adding innate element to zarr is probably stupid when you have the superior kuva zarr, but the entire premise of it is to bring all the weapons that are outside the Kuva/Tenet circle to the same standards as them.

I do think your system needs to include almost every weapon, if not every weapon. I guess the fusion does come down to player choice too. If I wanted to upgrade my standard Zarr then I could, even if it would not beat the Kuva variant. I don’t think restricting it to just Tenno weapons would be a good choice - that would require a lot of work from DE in terms of making all the Kuva/Tenet/infested variants.

Edited by krc473
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13 hours ago, Arcsyrine said:

Even using only existing models that are already in game, the amount off coding they'd need to do would be a lot. Not to mention the amount of database storage it would take to DOUBLE the hundreds of weapons we already have. Potentially even more when you factor in different percentages. 

While that'd still be alot of work, it would be significantly less work compared to how DE is handling liches now.

There would be no more need for weapon remodeling, Specter Liches get the exact carbon copy of the weapons that are already available in the game with the exact same stats and functionality. Also it's important to keep in mind that there would be no more RNG stats for the Innate Element, it's only 5 fixed stats(20%/30%/40%/50%/60%), the same way mods currently work when you rank them up.

If somehow they can't make that work, instead of letting us get the Specter's copy of our weapon with the innate element, they could let us get some kind of a weapon specific item that functions similarly to Focus Lenses that we can install on our own weapon. By installing it you will get an innate elemental bonus. I think this would actually be a much better way to do it, since getting a copy of your weapon only to infuse it into your own weapon would be a waste.

13 hours ago, Arcsyrine said:

why make the confrontation on a sentient murex, as opposed to say, an orokin tower?

To be honest, i wanted to make the implementation of this idea as low effort/budget as DE could possibly do. So i worked it out with what we currently have available.

Otherwise since this system would be the ultimate steelpath endgame system, they could implement it after the release of Duviri update, and add the orokin towers in railjack. With the addition of Steelpath difficulty in railjack ofcourse.

13 hours ago, Arcsyrine said:

By making every weapon like the lich ones, what is the point of the lich weapons? By doing this the lich system looses what makes it unique (whether or not that is a good unique is up to opinion).

This system would be an entirely separate content-island from the current lich systems. Think of the name "Specter Liches" as a placeholder. Liches/Sisters will still exist on their own island of content as they have unique looking versions of older faction weapons with different functionalities and improved stats. You can also make Liches/Sisters into your ally.

Specter Liches however, only exist as the ultimate steelpath personalized boss for each player and they can only be killed, and the sole reason they exist is to let the players push any weapon they want over the limit.

This system is not meant to replace the current system, but it's the evolution of the current system and it's meant to be something to fill the endgame void in steelpath.

13 hours ago, Arcsyrine said:

Side note, this will not help underused weapons compete as the better ones will only be made even more insane and people will continue to choose them.

DE could balance this out by putting an innate elemental value cap on the weapons that are popular and overused, since they have all the data for that.

But even now, the most overused weapons are Kuva Bramma and Kuva Zarr, since not only they do an absurd amount of damage, but they also have the privilege of having an innate element embedded into the weapon.

Also i don't think any system alone can solve the gap that currently exists between the underused and overused weapons, DE just has to go back and fine tune every single old weapon to lower this gap, which would take ALOT of time and wouldn't be worth the effort that they have to put into it. So this system is by no means a single solution to buff all the older weapons to the same level as Kuva/Tenet weapons, but it's meant to bring them into the same level of standards by giving them the same privilege of innate element as Kuva & Tenet weapons.

Edited by (PSN)ToiletFromFuture
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6 hours ago, krc473 said:

You seem to have misunderstood. I meant “how much effort for the players?”

  • Edit: note that this comment was also primarily in relation to an increase in mastery points. There is a reason to collect them all if you get mastery.

My mistake,

I think the weapons shouldn't offer more mastery. But i think this system should increase the mod capacity at least by 10 aswell as the addition of innate element across the board.

6 hours ago, krc473 said:

An easy way to keep the percentage low would be another option. A +30% can be more useful than a +60% for some builds. I am a fan of your suggestion to not use RNG for this, but keeping the percentage low could be problematic.

Also keep in mind, with the recent addition of Galvanized CO for weapons, Kuva & Tenet weapons will always be ahead of the majority of other weapons simply due to the fact that they can have an innate element without wasting any mod slots. But yea, the fixed element value solution will help the players fine tune their builds to their likings.

6 hours ago, krc473 said:

I do think your system needs to include almost every weapon, if not every weapon. I guess the fusion does come down to player choice too. If I wanted to upgrade my standard Zarr then I could, even if it would not beat the Kuva variant. I don’t think restricting it to just Tenno weapons would be a good choice - that would require a lot of work from DE in terms of making all the Kuva/Tenet/infested variants.

Exactly, that would require tons of needless work.

Also, while the way i presented this system may seem alot like the liches, heck even the name is "Specter Liches", but think of it as the evolution of the current lich system which is in an entirely different content island as liches and it's meant only for the Steelpath's endgame. The purpose of it isn't to make older weapons shinier, but it's meant to enhance the player choice by giving them more to customize on any weapon they please.

Right now all DE is doing with the Kuva/Tenet, is making the original variants of the weapons obsolete. Yea the Kuva/Tenet weapons are cooler looking, but that means so many older weapons will end up collecting dust for god knows how long. Even a new player can skip all the original variants of these weapons and straight up go for the Kuva/Tenet version because why shouldn't they? I don't really blame them for wanting a superior and shinier version of an old weapon that can also have an innate element.

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