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Paradox of shield gating


T_erry
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I was trying makes rhino useful.

I tried to combine iron skin and shield gating

But rhino's high base shield is disrupting.

I thought this is weird.

Why high shield value is disadvantage for shield gating?

This should change.

And soon I find simple answer.

Make fixed shield gating invulnerable time to proportional to shield value.

This maintain advantage for make overshield.

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7 minutes ago, T_erry said:

I tried to combine iron skin and shield gating

This is counter-productive IMO...

8 minutes ago, T_erry said:

Make fixed shield gating invulnerable time to proportional to shield value.

Absolutely not. This is a bad idea.

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4 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Aww! Come on! How much harm could it do? /s

Inaros -1000% Shield Gating:

  Reveal hidden contents

o0UB6lU.gif

Grendel 0.3 second Shield Gate duration:

  Reveal hidden contents

9EAZH3P.gif

Hildryn ♾️  ∞ Shield Gate duration:

  Reveal hidden contents

iT6DstF.gif

 

Leslie Jones No GIF by Saturday Night Live

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50 minutes ago, T_erry said:

I was trying makes rhino useful.

huh?

 

50 minutes ago, T_erry said:

tried to combine iron skin and shield gating

what the heck?

 

50 minutes ago, T_erry said:

I thought this is weird.

yeah, you seem to have some weird goals, and/or completely misunderstand Rhino.

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I do think that shield gating should possibly vary, although I think it'd be better if it was a set per-frame thing, rather than something moddable by adjusting shields directly. Probably related to how much each frame needs it. Rhino, frankly, I'd give a lot less since he has good armour anyway, alongside a strong innate defensive ability in iron skin.

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If they want to incentivise actually having a decent amount of Shields, then shields should regen by a percentage of max every second, rather than a flat number. So Hildryn’s shields regen in the same amount of time as Excal’s, with or without Redirection.

With that change, shield gating meta goes from “have a tiny shield pool” to “build for shield regen speed”, a much healthier system IMO.

Edited by YUNoJump
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17 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Shield Gating was intended to prevent players from getting killed by one-shots, not to be abused for the purpose of effective immortality.

Yes. It's ridiculous as it is. Why all these Lancers and Troopers and Ballistas and Heavy Gunners suddenly can't hurt me just 'cos I facetanked a Bombard rocket?

Shield-gating should at most protect against subsequent hits from the same enemy that broke the Shield, so you can't get unfairly gibbed by bugged content (i.e. things like an enemy who spawned in a wall with the tip of his weapon sticking out so he can shoot you, but you can't hit him back).

Turning completely invulnerable for 1.3 seconds in the middle of a fight makes the combat experience feel awfully arbitrary. And players who want the power-fantasy experience of being unkillable should be getting it from Mods and Arcanes, not from a base mechanic which can be thus manipulated.

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20 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

Yes. It's ridiculous as it is. Why all these Lancers and Troopers and Ballistas and Heavy Gunners suddenly can't hurt me just 'cos I facetanked a Bombard rocket?

Shield-gating should at most protect against subsequent hits from the same enemy that broke the Shield, so you can't get unfairly gibbed by bugged content (i.e. things like an enemy who spawned in a wall with the tip of his weapon sticking out so he can shoot you, but you can't hit him back).

Turning completely invulnerable for 1.3 seconds in the middle of a fight makes the combat experience feel awfully arbitrary. And players who want the power-fantasy experience of being unkillable should be getting it from Mods and Arcanes, not from a base mechanic which can be thus manipulated.

Honestly, a lot of mechanics introduced to the game makes me scratch my head. It seems there was a time when DE's main focus was to fully back the power-fantasy aspect without much consideration for lategame balance. Take frames like Wukong - his clone can play the game for a player with aimbot-like precision. Take Octavia - she can do SP survival missions without any mods - just use Metronome, stay invisible and spam Mallet and Resonator and the game plays itself. Even Protective Dash is crazy: Use it every 4 seconds and be immortal. Sure it is a hassle, but damn, even having that option is not balanced.

I was a little disappointed when i saw the introduction of shield-gating. Shield-gate itself seemed like a band-aid mechanic to address a symptom caused by some problems. The symptom being players getting one-shot, while the problems are improper enemy damage balance and relative Frame durability imbalances: Some squishier Frames get one-shot in situations where tankier Frames barely flinch. 

While I would guess this was done to attract and retain players interested in such power-fantasy playstyles, it also alienates the portion of the playerbase that prefer a balanced lategame, which is ironic, since I've seen a lot of feedback from newer players stating Warframe is too hard/complicated at early- to midgame - many players who kept playing and enjoyed the difficulty at the start are left without that challenge at lategame - early to midgame is more balanced and has more tactical and strategical depth than lategame.

Seems best we can hope at this stage is for DE to release an optional gamemode aimed at attracting and retaining players interested in a balanced, challenging endgame, which addresses imbalances through proper modifers and perhaps some new arcanes/mods to re-establish proper balance, which won't alienate the power-fantasy group, since they still have the rest of the game to enjoy their way.

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On 2021-10-10 at 11:46 PM, T_erry said:

I was trying makes rhino useful.

I tried to combine iron skin and shield gating

But rhino's high base shield is disrupting.

For the content you need shield gating with Rhino, youre supposed to charge Iron skin in a group of enemies and then stomp around to reduce the damage coming your way. Plenty enough time for shields to recharge that way.  Thats without taking Recharge rate, delay and Rolling guard mods into account.

Also Decaying Dragon Key.

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3 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Also Decaying Dragon Key.

Since Dragon Keys are supposed to gimp you... an easy fix for DE is to make Decaying Dragon also reduce the shield gate time by -75%.... so 0.325 seconds when shields are depleted from fully changed and 0.0825 seconds when depleted from partially recharged shields.

Why didn't they think of this?

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16 minutes ago, nslay said:

Since Dragon Keys are supposed to gimp you... an easy fix for DE is to make Decaying Dragon also reduce the shield gate time by -75%.... so 0.325 seconds when shields are depleted from fully changed and 0.0825 seconds when depleted from partially recharged shields.

Why didn't they think of this?

That's really delightfully evil but fair, and I like it.

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1 hour ago, nslay said:

Since Dragon Keys are supposed to gimp you... an easy fix for DE is to make Decaying Dragon also reduce the shield gate time by -75%.... so 0.325 seconds when shields are depleted from fully changed and 0.0825 seconds when depleted from partially recharged shields.

Why didn't they think of this?

🤔 I could potentially get behind this. Usually when I’m using a Dragon Key outside of the vaults, it’s to put me on a lower level than my rank 30 Warframe so I can engage in content that technically is better suited for a Warframe that’s leveling up, and still have to not stand around like some demigod expecting to facetank everything through ridiculous stats or invincibility.

At those points I feel like the grace period for shield gating isn’t such a crucial factor

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On 2021-10-11 at 12:14 PM, YUNoJump said:

If they want to incentivise actually having a decent amount of Shields, then shields should regen by a percentage of max every second, rather than a flat number. So Hildryn’s shields regen in the same amount of time as Excal’s, with or without Redirection.

With that change, shield gating meta goes from “have a tiny shield pool” to “build for shield regen speed”, a much healthier system IMO.

Don’t we already have shield regen mods? I tend to equip them while fighting high-level non-SP Grineer because they do chip damage with a lucky hit-scan hit, and if my shields can recharge back up more before the next chip, that can keep me going for a while

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