Oberon Re Fertilized and Replanted

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Perspective: Contrary to what my in-game account says I have been playing since 2016 just after spectres of the rail. My most used frames were Oberon Prime, and regular Oberon with 70% overall usage between those two over the course of thousands of hours. I had taken Oberon all the way to steel path and solo farmed the new arcanes with him. I am not saying I know everything, but I do know enough to have an informed opinion.

Going with the idea presented with Nyx's Refresh. Oberon (and frankly all support frames) are being crushed by the dumptruck that is Wisp. Worse, for new players (this is something I am currently experiencing as an account that's just over two weeks old.) Oberon is HARDER TO FARM than Wisp. So. 'How do we make Oberon better cheaply?' He is now obtainable through railjack or relics to farm his prime (which I have because a friend of mine gifted me Oberon Prime parts as a sort of apology for me nuking my old account. Long Story.)

Oberon Re Fertilized and Replanted

Stats: Fine as is. Arguments could be made that he really falls off on steel path, but at the same time, steel path isn't something the devs are supposed to balance around, and mod so he's perfectly fine in steel path and everything else becomes a flat out joke.

Passive: Unchanged. It's fine.
Smite: Fine as is.
Hallowed Ground: Current Behavior is acceptable.

New Behavior: Any enemy on hallowed ground gets slowed by an unmoddable 25% while they are on hallowed ground plus ten seconds after they step off of hallowed ground. Bump range mods from their current .75% to full 1.0 when calculating range increases.

Reason: Oberon already wants a bit of everything stat-wise, so you aren't going to get anyone that's going all in on range (outside of weekly helmenth buff, and that takes so much investment to get to that you aren't going to see many people with those buffs, and even then they are temporary.) There are a lot of other things I could suggest here, but the idea i to keep it simple keep it easy to implement.

Renewal: Fold in the armor buff to just renewal so that base level behavior is made more streamlined.

New behavior: Allies affected by Renewal are targetable by Smite even if Oberon doesn't have Smite infusion. These allies, when hit by smite, get a base 20% speed increase (caps at 50%.) Affected allies walking over hallowed ground gets a 6 meter aura that slows nearby enemies by an unmoddable 15% as long as renewal is active.

Reason: Having to cast renewal + hallowed ground is competing against wisp laying down a single heal mote off of her first ability in terms of initial cost. Additionally  while Oberon has renewal active he cannot gain energy from zennuric+energy syphon+EV Trinity whereas Wisp can. Added behaviors to smite and hallowed ground to give an optional feeling but nice to have bonuses.

Reckoning: Increase the radius to blind enemies. Move the 'drop health orb' chance from 'on kill' to 'if killed within 10 seconds (moddable by duration.) This allows more chances for interaction with the mecha mods that allow consumption of health orbs even if Oberon's health is full.

Furthermore: Remove armor strip percentage. Enemies standing on hallowed ground get their armor completely stripped.

Reason: 'Oh you have to cast Hallowed ground then reckoning' is enough of an energy and setup ask as is. Currently you have to hope enemies stay on for two or three casts (depending on armor strength) which gets REALLY EXPENSIVE, and reckoning covers a wider amount of ground than hallowed ground does, so you aren't stirpping everyone's armor even with the new mechanic.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

Thinking on it, I haven't played Oberon in a while since his abilities are not in an ideal state, while WISP has the most efficient Heal and people keep saying "it's fine that she's op" "then just make everything op" without further intent on arguing this particular situation.

I don't think Oberon's stats are fine, even for a Support/Healing Warframe, he is among the few who aren't particularly resillient, he could use a few Health & Shield buffs.

Passive: It's really hard to think a passive based or even related to companions, which use a still unreliable AI, could be fine, however, the issue here is the AI, if it was improved then people could argue about whether the passive is really useful or not.

Hallowed Ground: I think it could use some form of periodic armor strip of it's own so the Reckoning combo is so mandatory to strip armor of, or have to cast an extra Reckoning because enemies still have some armor.

Renewal: I don't think it requires the changes you proposed, but changes to the Energy Cost itself. as of now it drains 2 energy/s for being active and 3e/s when healing yourself, an ally or any allied unit(shadows for example). This means that whenever it should be actively healing atleast a target it costs 5e/s, more targets adding to the drain and shadows completely destroying Oberon's energy pool.

What it should change to is 2.5 energy/s and maybe 1e/s for each ally being healed, 0.2e/s for summons or companions. What I think it should change to.

Reckoning: As you suggested, health orbs should drop not only due to kills by Reckoning itself, which is already hard the higher the levels go on. Enemies affected by it should definitively drop orbs when dying upon certain window, this would also help to have a way to restore energy with Equilibrium if used when there are multiple targets. However the chance for orb drops should be reduced to 35% to 40%, because getting orbs would be too easy then.

Also give it some form of slow after enemies land? Not sure.

Anyhow, it'd be nice if they actually updated the Waframes that require updating, I hope Nyx gets an actual update instead of Bandaid Wave 3.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Mostly said the stats were fine because 'well, I'm unsure how to buff the stats so it doens't come across like 'wah wah waaah oberon isn't OP i want i WAAAAAAAAANT!' So, cut the knees out from under that argument.

Your arguments are honestly valid and while your idea of hallowed ground doing a periodic armor strip sounds fun, my reasoning was 'Making it slow enemies leaves them in the area of damage which would normally be in addition to choke points or lanes of traffic the AI has decided to follow to the objective.' 

I'd wanted to decouple armor strip from hallowed ground both because i frankly hate the 'oh it's synergy' mislabeling of a forced interaction that is honestly damned expensive, and to give reckoning something useful since I don't want Reckoning to be a 'nuke.' I love the idea of it being a mass rad proc, blind for surrounding enemies, and an armor strip. However it's expensive as hell.

Your argument for renewal's cost to be adjusted... honestly is fair? I also recall an early suggestion during the initial oberon rework to have renewal give health and armor, and people walking over hallowed ground getting a doubling, so that core function is still there but using the combination has benefits. 

I just don't like that oberon is both clearly an inferrior choice to wisp, and more difficult to farm. All frames should be good enough, but when a frame is difficult to farm and or tucked in an out of the main loop game mode that requires several quests to access? And it's worse than a frame that you can get through star chart farming? THere are problems.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

Looking back at it, I remember there was a change to Warframe drop sources with railjack getting patched, and only now I look at Oberon's drop chance from the missions... Who ever had this terrible idea to lock him behind Railjack with those drop rates? All that way back when you could get Oberon casually while progressing through the starchart. Straight up terrible.

Thinking some more on it, I guess Hallowed Ground could use some form of slow to it, maybe.

Aside from Renewal costs changing, it could also use a small buff to the actual health regen it provides, like having it regen 45hp/s instead of 40hp/s.
Looking at the wiki by the way, summoned units actually cost 1e/s at the current moment, still cost a deadly amount of energy if shadows are around.

Decoupling the armor strip on Reckoning from Hallowed Ground is completely fine, if you want to cover the radius of Reckoning, you almost always need to cast 2 on 2 sides and then Reckoning only to armor strip enemies at higher levels, so that's 200 energy to armor strip up to 80% armor removed(30% base). It's not nearly as effective as it could be.
Honestly, quite a lot of new "Ability Synergies" are forced interactions that almost always punish players for not using abilities a specific way.

About Wisp overshadowing most if not all Warframes with healing abilities with the press of a button and a single time cast of 25 energy that lasts forever. She simply needs a nerf, people will cry and say she's fine "that she's op" but it simply is too cost effective and trivializes the game, it isn't just the Vitality mote, it's ALL motes. Shock, Haste. CC forever for 25 energy, on all your allies too, Warcry? Speed? Penance? Forget all that, Motes simply makes everything easier, for the entirety of the mission.

Nerf Vita Mote from 300 increased health cap & 30 hp/s to 250 Increased health & 20hp/s. Also, remove the Eternal reservoirs, make them last 5 times the base of duration of motes, so 2.5 minutes , whether it can be modded or not is another matter.

[Hypernaut1]

Older frames do so little with their abilities when compared to newer frames.

[Seele]

Wisp is crazy good, and Oberon's Smite being subsumable has made it hard to justify playing him from a metagaming perspective. I don't feel that he's at all too weak to keep up, but recognize that another support frame with (or without) Smite subsumed + Smite Infusion eclipses Oberon in no small way.

Basically, he's fine, because Warframe isn't hard, but there is a lot of room for improvement and he has fallen behind the powercreep curve.

I think the slow on Hallowed Ground + making Iron Renewal an inherent part of Renewal is a great fix.

I understand wanting to buff Reckoning as well, it is pretty lackluster at this point, but I'm not sure if shuttling armor shred to Hallowed Ground and making it that efficient is not just two rights making a wrong. I think leaving the armor shred tied to the combo, but making it more effective (up to 100% with enough power strength) and substantially increasing the damage of Reckoning (perhaps always, perhaps only in combo w/ Hallowed Ground) would be good.

Another idea would be to make it so that Oberon lifts enemies on cast, and can slam them down by recasting, to really emphasize the CC element. But then that's basically Nezha's Divine Spears.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

6 minutes ago, Seele said:

making it more effective (up to 100% with enough power strength)

Already can, but you have to have, I think, somewhere in the ballpark of 250% power strength to do that, and to get that much power strength means you're building exclusively for strength so are neutering a lot of the rest of his kit's potential.

[PR1D3]

Oberon used to be my main for a long time but I've fallen out of favor with him. Reminding me of a rework idea I've read and saved years ago.

I go back and re read it and I still love it. Needs some tiny bit more additions but if Oberon played like this, I would love him again.

[AkHannar]

Here's something to chew on in terms of Oberon's stats: I got a +1000 armor on my Oberon Prime from helminth. NOW I feel like he is good enough for Steel path, but only if I actually use his kit with Empower instead of Reckoning, with Infused Smite and Growing Power. And I was playing solo, so Hunter's Adrenaline kept my energy up decently well - with a squad, I would be out of energy very soon.

TLDR: Oberon needs more base armor, or the armor bonus from Iron Renewall needs to be higher, and he needs to stop being such an energy glutton.

[selig_fay]

2 hours ago, AkHannar said:

And I was playing solo, so Hunter's Adrenaline kept my energy up decently well - with a squad, I would be out of energy very soon

Play equilibrium and synth mods when dealing with a team. This is now the only effective way to quickly pump up your energy. The main problem with playing co-op with rage is that the dead don't do damage.

[Blackmist390]

On 2021-10-18 at 2:23 PM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Already can, but you have to have, I think, somewhere in the ballpark of 250% power strength to do that, and to get that much power strength means you're building exclusively for strength so are neutering a lot of the rest of his kit's potential.

334% Ability Strength is needed currently (I dumped a couple of forma into my Oberon Prime to try out an armor strip build). I had a pretty wild change in attitude between the vanilla Oberon and the prime in terms of how I used the kit, and I will say that Oberon is pretty strength heavy if you are trying to compete in the buff / debuff department.

Regarding how he compares to the other support frames, I can appreciate the concerns players have for his kit, but it seems to be playstyles which make him 'lackluster'. Using his synergies requires him to camp, which is more typical of defense frames like Frost or Vauban. These frames aren't necessarily bad, it's just that they're not built for the run and gun mindset that most mission types demand of them. As for Wisp, nothing can compete with a permanent duration, I feel like the motes should have a time limit. But I digress.

My suggestions for his kit?
**Passive:** I don't have a whole lot of positive things to say about buffing companion stats. I used to run no companions as I felt like I was just wasting time reviving them when I could be slaughtering enemies. Even now, half of my companions are Synth Fiber bots. I would simply suggest adjusting Oberon's passive so that the free instant revive applies to each squad member's companion.

**Smite:** I had the fortune of grinding a pre-railjack Oberon, and this felt like so much fun to spam. Forced radiation procs, homing targeting, and HP scaling?!? It's beautiful. The augment is incredible for eidolons and orb mother fights. If this ability was buffed to factor ability strength into the HP-based damage (e.g, base 25%, 200% strength would do 50% hp + base damage), it would be all that much better.

**Hallowed Ground:** This is usable enough to lock down paths to where the combat is taking place, offering nice radiation procs and doing good damage in low-mid level content. The augment is forgiving of a crappy duration stat but at the cost of no longer spamming the ability. My complaints about it are that knockdown immunity isn't included in the Hallowed status immunity buff (which proves problematic for players without Primed Sure Footed) and that the ability requires Oberon players to keep close to their casting spots. I would be impressed if Hallowed Ground was centered on Oberon, moving *with* him, but that's up to debate. 

**Renewal:** Contrary to Trinity's description citing a rarity in healing capabilities, health sources are so readily available. There's Life Strike, Healing Return, Squad Health Restores, Rejuvenation, Arcane Grace, the list goes on. And these options don't require Oberon to have a good energy economy. I'm with the forum on reducing the energy cost per additional target. As much as I want the ability to function similarly to Quick Thinking, I'm sure that the Phoenix Renewal augment does about that.

**Reckoning:** As levels climb up the function of this ability shifts considerably. Armor strip and blinding end up as the only real contributions in high-level content like Sorties or Steel Path. Frankly, this ability seems to be Oberon's biggest weakness. The armor strip is too low for the amount of setup done, which leads me to hope that DE will either give armor strip raw or simply increase the percent.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

3 hours ago, Blackmist390 said:

334% Ability Strength is needed currently

Christ.... I remember it being 175% to two bounce and 250% to one bounce enemy armor. Shows how little i actually used that feature because of how often you encounter 'oh hey that enemy is immune to powers' 

I had some consideration on Oberon's problems and.... beyond minor tweaks to Reckoning's health orb drop behavior for mecha mod + equellibrium shennagins, and putting a slow on Hallowed ground?

Change his passive.

 

Passive: Compared to other frames such as yareli, vauban, chroma, etc, It's genuinely a Nothing passive. Personally I'm in favor of copying Ember's passive given how much Oberon both wants to spread radiation, and how much power strength he wants.

'Oberon gains 5% extra Ability Strength for every enemy suffering an active Radiation status effect within a 50 meters radius.' (Could make a consideratio nfor 'affinity range' to get mileage out of affinity flares and vazrin plus it gives him parity with trinity and harrow having 'affinity range' gimmicks in his kit.)

My reasoning is simple: This sort of passive gives Oberon scaling healing and armor with respect to crowds (such as steel path) being times when an oberon player will WANT more power strength. This also makes his kit feed into itself given three of his four powers either has a guarantee or at least high chance of radiation procs. 'But Reckoning currently gives guaranteed procs.' It also has a 100 energy cost by default and feels fairly underwhelming. So giving it, smite, and hallowed ground ways to passively give Oberon a buff just by doing what Oberon does is pretty solid. This also allows players to balance whether they want to frontload their power strength for quick missions where they are alway moving, or invest in other stats for missions that take an amount of time in a given area (disruption, defense, steel path, etc.) Theoretically can get silly with steel path mob sizes, but keep in mind that mega-heal ultra armor goes away the moment energy goes away, a nullifier says hi, or oberon falls into a hole.

This passive instantly fixes oberon scaling poorly in higher levels without stacking adaptation, guardian, and then abusing spectres and team mates, helminth, relic buffs, etc to further boost power strength. Changing his passive in this way gives him scaling survivability into situations where Oberon WANTS crowds, and thanks to being THe Radiation Guy, he can keep enemies, ok not totally locked down, busy enough simi clumping at each other instead of scattering to the winds. This is important. Maybe add a secondary component to Oberon's passive where if he is in a team enemies suffering rad procs prioritize each other far more than they do allies? That would need testing but may be an interesting wrinkle.

[SmokinDice]

On 2021-10-13 at 5:17 AM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Perspective: Contrary to what my in-game account says I have been playing since 2016 just after spectres of the rail. My most used frames were Oberon Prime, and regular Oberon with 70% overall usage between those two over the course of thousands of hours. I had taken Oberon all the way to steel path and solo farmed the new arcanes with him. I am not saying I know everything, but I do know enough to have an informed opinion.

Going with the idea presented with Nyx's Refresh. Oberon (and frankly all support frames) are being crushed by the dumptruck that is Wisp. Worse, for new players (this is something I am currently experiencing as an account that's just over two weeks old.) Oberon is HARDER TO FARM than Wisp. So. 'How do we make Oberon better cheaply?' He is now obtainable through railjack or relics to farm his prime (which I have because a friend of mine gifted me Oberon Prime parts as a sort of apology for me nuking my old account. Long Story.)

Oberon Re Fertilized and Replanted

Stats: Fine as is. Arguments could be made that he really falls off on steel path, but at the same time, steel path isn't something the devs are supposed to balance around, and mod so he's perfectly fine in steel path and everything else becomes a flat out joke.

Passive: Unchanged. It's fine.
Smite: Fine as is.
Hallowed Ground: Current Behavior is acceptable.

New Behavior: Any enemy on hallowed ground gets slowed by an unmoddable 25% while they are on hallowed ground plus ten seconds after they step off of hallowed ground. Bump range mods from their current .75% to full 1.0 when calculating range increases.

Reason: Oberon already wants a bit of everything stat-wise, so you aren't going to get anyone that's going all in on range (outside of weekly helmenth buff, and that takes so much investment to get to that you aren't going to see many people with those buffs, and even then they are temporary.) There are a lot of other things I could suggest here, but the idea i to keep it simple keep it easy to implement.

Renewal: Fold in the armor buff to just renewal so that base level behavior is made more streamlined.

New behavior: Allies affected by Renewal are targetable by Smite even if Oberon doesn't have Smite infusion. These allies, when hit by smite, get a base 20% speed increase (caps at 50%.) Affected allies walking over hallowed ground gets a 6 meter aura that slows nearby enemies by an unmoddable 15% as long as renewal is active.

Reason: Having to cast renewal + hallowed ground is competing against wisp laying down a single heal mote off of her first ability in terms of initial cost. Additionally  while Oberon has renewal active he cannot gain energy from zennuric+energy syphon+EV Trinity whereas Wisp can. Added behaviors to smite and hallowed ground to give an optional feeling but nice to have bonuses.

Reckoning: Increase the radius to blind enemies. Move the 'drop health orb' chance from 'on kill' to 'if killed within 10 seconds (moddable by duration.) This allows more chances for interaction with the mecha mods that allow consumption of health orbs even if Oberon's health is full.

Furthermore: Remove armor strip percentage. Enemies standing on hallowed ground get their armor completely stripped.

Reason: 'Oh you have to cast Hallowed ground then reckoning' is enough of an energy and setup ask as is. Currently you have to hope enemies stay on for two or three casts (depending on armor strength) which gets REALLY EXPENSIVE, and reckoning covers a wider amount of ground than hallowed ground does, so you aren't stirpping everyone's armor even with the new mechanic.

 

Oberon is one of my lovechilds aswell, he is special to me since he was the first, and is still one of the only warframes in the game that can be completly 100% immortal by doing nothing but standing around forever, and for that alone I love him.

I feel like he is pretty convoluted already with all of his abilities doing so many diffrent things with oneanother that you need to understand first. and your ideas just add even more functions ontop of that.. which ofcourse would make him better, but also even harder to understand. even if renewel alone would also give armor, you replace that synergy by 2 others, which doesn't help people understand what he is suppose to do.

buffing his reckoning armor strip I agree with 100%, it is the ability I always subsume away nowadays since it just isn't worth it to me, and the on kill is worthless above level 30, so yeah, this could be improved for sure.

and making the range scale better with hallowed ground is okay I guess, but wouldn't help much really, because you either go full 360° or you dont.. and this would still be only achieved by equipping overextended none the less..

 

I think oberon has everything one could ask for right now, he feels fun and special and unique, he is at the very botoom of my list of warframes who need any improvement

 

[Blackmist390]

On 2021-12-19 at 7:40 AM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Christ.... I remember it being 175% to two bounce and 250% to one bounce enemy armor. Shows how little i actually used that feature because of how often you encounter 'oh hey that enemy is immune to powers' 

I had some consideration on Oberon's problems and.... beyond minor tweaks to Reckoning's health orb drop behavior for mecha mod + equellibrium shennagins, and putting a slow on Hallowed ground?

Change his passive.

 

Passive: Compared to other frames such as yareli, vauban, chroma, etc, It's genuinely a Nothing passive. Personally I'm in favor of copying Ember's passive given how much Oberon both wants to spread radiation, and how much power strength he wants.

'Oberon gains 5% extra Ability Strength for every enemy suffering an active Radiation status effect within a 50 meters radius.' (Could make a consideratio nfor 'affinity range' to get mileage out of affinity flares and vazrin plus it gives him parity with trinity and harrow having 'affinity range' gimmicks in his kit.)

My reasoning is simple: This sort of passive gives Oberon scaling healing and armor with respect to crowds (such as steel path) being times when an oberon player will WANT more power strength. This also makes his kit feed into itself given three of his four powers either has a guarantee or at least high chance of radiation procs. 'But Reckoning currently gives guaranteed procs.' It also has a 100 energy cost by default and feels fairly underwhelming. So giving it, smite, and hallowed ground ways to passively give Oberon a buff just by doing what Oberon does is pretty solid. This also allows players to balance whether they want to frontload their power strength for quick missions where they are alway moving, or invest in other stats for missions that take an amount of time in a given area (disruption, defense, steel path, etc.) Theoretically can get silly with steel path mob sizes, but keep in mind that mega-heal ultra armor goes away the moment energy goes away, a nullifier says hi, or oberon falls into a hole.

This passive instantly fixes oberon scaling poorly in higher levels without stacking adaptation, guardian, and then abusing spectres and team mates, helminth, relic buffs, etc to further boost power strength. Changing his passive in this way gives him scaling survivability into situations where Oberon WANTS crowds, and thanks to being THe Radiation Guy, he can keep enemies, ok not totally locked down, busy enough simi clumping at each other instead of scattering to the winds. This is important. Maybe add a secondary component to Oberon's passive where if he is in a team enemies suffering rad procs prioritize each other far more than they do allies? That would need testing but may be an interesting wrinkle.

One "problem" currently faced by Oberon's kit (his 2 and 4 specifically) is that his synergies require a campy playstyle. Defense and mobile defense aren't really an issue as we have frames such as Frost / Gara / Atlas which hold a point down with varying levels of success. But in more favorable game modes such as survival, Oberon doesn't have the luxury to go hunt down enemies; they must activate his trap card. I could repeatedly complain about how small of an armor strip 30% is for a 4th ability and say that Reckoning doesn't scale strongly enough for the health orb drops to appear frequently, but that depends on the level of content an Oberon player does while the campiness problem is more universal. I think that centering Hallowed Ground on Oberon and moving with him would make his synergies a lot more competent. 

I don't mind Oberon's passive as it is, more tankiness on companions avoids the occasional headache. Your suggestion of an Ember-like passive feels a little too on-the-nose, and while I fully agree that Oberon is notorious for spreading radiation and needing ability strength, he's not quite the high risk, high reward frame that Ember is. What about this:

Passive: The regal guardian and protector, Oberon springs to action when his allies are in need of aid. For every ally (including companions) that is not at 100% health, Oberon gains a 5% additive bonus to Ability Strength. If my numbers are reasonable, Oberon would be looking at 35% extra ability strength if everything is taking a beating. One balancing concerns would be spawned enemies (namely Nekros' shadows of the dead, which Oberon actually pairs incredibly nicely with), in which case the passive can make interaction exceptions or perhaps grant a strength bonus only at certain hp thresholds (say, under 50%).

I also have some comments about Renewal, which is the cornerstone of Oberon's reputation as a support frame. I regret to say that Renewal is very weak. I do concede that it's up-front healing and having consistent healing per second is hilarious with Rage / Hunter Adrenaline, but the buck stops here (see what I did there?) Unlike Garuda's blood altar, Renewal is a flat bonus per second (and in most cases is slower as a result) and 40hp/s falls off later on in the star chart and in endless missions. Unlike Wisp's Vitality Mote, Renewal only provides a benefit over time while the ability is toggled (with a timer being placed on the armor bonus from Hallowed Ground). Lastly, Renewal is unlike most healing abilities because it adopts different rulesets for non-player allies, from energy cost to healing-over-time duration. I understand that some healing abilities are modified for a reason with defense missions (with Trinity being the exception because she is the canon healer frame), but frames like Oberon and Equinox still suffer greatly from these modifiers. I think Oberon would be better off if his healing mechanics applied regardless of player or NPC. Also, bleedout reduction is pitiful in Warframe (woohoo, more time to watch my squad mates not revive me!), but Oberon players really love Phoenix Renewal as an augment because it bypasses the bleedout when hp drops to 0. What if Oberon's Renewal, instead of adding to the bleedout timer, just simply used more energy to revive downed allies from a range?

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

 

[ABlindGuyPlays]

 

 

Let's review:
Needs 333% power strength for an ability that costs 100 energy base to strip armor. Except said ability only affects a ffiteen meter radius. EXCEPT that armor strip only happens when enemeis are standing on hallowed ground, which is a fifty energy ability. So two casts, One hundred and fifty energy spent, and not everyone in hallowed ground gets armor stripped. Vs Nyx, Caliban, and others being able to just completely go 'Everything in that direction has no armor or shields.'

Look at the dodgemonkey he has to do just to survive even with FOUR PRIME MODS in the warframe plus ailities boosted by the strength arcane meaning FOUR PRIMED MODS AND TWENTY ONE ARCANES to boost health regen and armor and he's having to do all that to survive vs Nezha, Revenant, Etc being able ot just shrug 'Oh hey rain's a bit heavy today.'

Oberon is ACTIVLY PUNISHED with increased drain on an already really poor energy economy who's only really helped by arcane energize THE MOST EZPENSIVE FREAKING ARCANE IN THE GAME with Dissipate being nerfed into the damned ground.

And he's still ultra squishy even though he is SUPPOSED to be a tank frame.

I have used Oberon since 2016. I use the goat. I like the Goat. I have three umbral forma on mine. Even if augments gave amazing thigns I can't use those augments because there is no space left on his build because it literally wants everything.

And i also remember the dev stream right after his rework. Day One where he couldn't kill a level one heavy gunner. 'Oberon is in a good place.' For those that weren't there for that?

BEHOLD THE MEME OF DAY ONE OBERON REWORK (Apr 27, 2017) VS LEVEL 1 HEAVY GUNNER

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxJKg1ZR-35XHRr0fpspQ8x7jBlnMkJYRN
Edit: now with the correct timestamp.

I have posted rework threads in the past. They have gotten no traction. DE has a habit of not listening or caring because new shiny thing makes them more money than keeping the existing roster relevant.

You can absolutely bet I'm angry.

Oberon. The Forgotten. The Underwhelming.

[BeardyKyle]

4 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

 

 

Let's review:
Needs 333% power strength for an ability that costs 100 energy base to strip armor. Except said ability only affects a ffiteen meter radius. EXCEPT that armor strip only happens when enemeis are standing on hallowed ground, which is a fifty energy ability. So two casts, One hundred and fifty energy spent, and not everyone in hallowed ground gets armor stripped. Vs Nyx, Caliban, and others being able to just completely go 'Everything in that direction has no armor or shields.'

Look at the dodgemonkey he has to do just to survive even with FOUR PRIME MODS in the warframe plus ailities boosted by the strength arcane meaning FOUR PRIMED MODS AND TWENTY ONE ARCANES to boost health regen and armor and he's having to do all that to survive vs Nezha, Revenant, Etc being able ot just shrug 'Oh hey rain's a bit heavy today.'

Oberon is ACTIVLY PUNISHED with increased drain on an already really poor energy economy who's only really helped by arcane energize THE MOST EZPENSIVE FREAKING ARCANE IN THE GAME with Dissipate being nerfed into the damned ground.

And he's still ultra squishy even though he is SUPPOSED to be a tank frame.

I have used Oberon since 2016. I use the goat. I like the Goat. I have three umbral forma on mine. Even if augments gave amazing thigns I can't use those augments because there is no space left on his build because it literally wants everything.

And i also remember the dev stream right after his rework. Day One where he couldn't kill a level one heavy gunner. 'Oberon is in a good place.' For those that wern't there for that?

BEHOLD THE MEME OF DAY ONE OBERON VS LEVEL 1 HEAVY GUNNER

I have posted rework threads in the past. They have gotten no traction. DE has a habit of not listening or caring because new shiny thing makes them more money than keeping the existing roster relevant.

You can absolutely bet I'm angry.

Oberon. The Forgotten. The Underwhelming.

Timestamp on that meme please. Vid is an hour long.

 

But yeah I don't even need to read this or watch brozimes video to agree.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

25 minutes ago, BeardyKyle said:

Timestamp on that meme please. Vid is an hour long.

 

But yeah I don't even need to read this or watch brozimes video to agree.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDRmHQRYv_zSQcseRIExoPAWCTOOviF46

Sorry ya there ya go. Clipped.

[BeardyKyle]

24 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDRmHQRYv_zSQcseRIExoPAWCTOOviF46

Sorry ya there ya go. Clipped.

:( That's a lvl 145 ancient he's fighting. 

 

On 2021-10-12 at 11:17 PM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Renewal: Fold in the armor buff to just renewal so that base level behavior is made more streamlined.

New behavior: Allies affected by Renewal are targetable by Smite even if Oberon doesn't have Smite infusion. These allies, when hit by smite, get a base 20% speed increase (caps at 50%.) Affected allies walking over hallowed ground gets a 6 meter aura that slows nearby enemies by an unmoddable 15% as long as renewal is active.

Reason: Having to cast renewal + hallowed ground is competing against wisp laying down a single heal mote off of her first ability in terms of initial cost. Additionally  while Oberon has renewal active he cannot gain energy from zennuric+energy syphon+EV Trinity whereas Wisp can. Added behaviors to smite and hallowed ground to give an optional feeling but nice to have bonuses.

Reckoning: Increase the radius to blind enemies. Move the 'drop health orb' chance from 'on kill' to 'if killed within 10 seconds (moddable by duration.) This allows more chances for interaction with the mecha mods that allow consumption of health orbs even if Oberon's health is full.

Furthermore: Remove armor strip percentage. Enemies standing on hallowed ground get their armor completely stripped.

Reason: 'Oh you have to cast Hallowed ground then reckoning' is enough of an energy and setup ask as is. Currently you have to hope enemies stay on for two or three casts (depending on armor strength) which gets REALLY EXPENSIVE, and reckoning covers a wider amount of ground than hallowed ground does, so you aren't stirpping everyone's armor even with the new mechanic.

Honestly the only new synergy needed is something like Half the Energy of Oberon's abilities is refunded for any abilities casted while on Hallowed Ground.

Love the health orb change.  

[ABlindGuyPlays]

1 hour ago, BeardyKyle said:

:( That's a lvl 145 ancient he's fighting. 

 

Honestly the only new synergy needed is something like Half the Energy of Oberon's abilities is refunded for any abilities casted while on Hallowed Ground.

Love the health orb change.  

After watching Brozime's videos I'd say a armor strip needs to be aimed at 200% strength and decoupling from hallowed ground. with hallowed ground giving that half energy cost plus mayhap enemy slow.

The health orb drop changed from on kill to 'if killed after x seconds after being hit' is a non negotiable.

I will reiterate from top post of thread this got moved to (Can't fault the mods I guess,) is...

look at wisp. Look at Oberon.

Oberon is competing against that. And Nezha. And Nyx. Nyx, Nezha, and Wisp are all easier to get than Oberon and each are indavidually better and more surviveable than this guy who is trying to be a bit of all three.

I do like Brozime's idea of rolling hallowed ground and renewal in, except i cast hallowed ground far more than renewal, so putting those two together would need a tap/hold mechanic so that tapping just cast hallowed ground with hold casting both.

I dunno why I do this. DE deas not listen, especially give nthere is no financial incentive.

DAY ONE Oberon vs Heavy Gunner. it was like... 32 minutes in. Sorry for the mixup.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxJKg1ZR-35XHRr0fpspQ8x7jBlnMkJYRN

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Oberon. The Forgotten. The Underwhelming.

I...

I know it's not the depth of the mud you stand in, but the height of your boots...

But that's a bit harsh to judge a frame around mechanics that you actually don't need to have on the Warframe itself. Because Oberon can, and does, survive really well at high level, even if he's a little squishier than some frames. And Oberon does not, just like a dozen other frames, need armour strip to maintain kills.

It is, basically, okay for a frame to not perform as well as others. As long as the frame does perform. To which I would say that, while he's not an A-tier frame anymore, he's definitely not below a C-tier either. All of his abilities do function, all of his buffs to others are welcome, and when you aren't trying to hit an arbitrary cap for a specific build, his more general builds will see Solo or Squad play through a lot of content. I particularly like bringing him along to things that are typically a bit more janky, like the Steel Path Ropalolyst fight and buffing everyone's weapon damage with his 1 augment so that they can actually take out synovias.

It is okay to not be the best, and that's the way you've got to think of it. The frame isn't ruined, it's not dead, you can still play the frame you like, just as long as you don't try to force it into something that it's not kitted out to do.

Eventually, just like my frame, Zephyr, a change will come along that makes them incredible. And you'll be vindicated for supporting that frame so much.

It just, most likely, won't be any of the ideas you've suggested. (And if any of the ideas are, DE will not actually mention that it's part of the changes as more than an aside, even though it's one of the things that makes them great... like my all-the-way-from-2015 suggestions of making Tornado possible to cast in one location so that enemies got caught up and would hang in the middle... and look, it was barely mentioned on the rework a couple of years ago as a feature, but that's what makes the ability kill literally everything now...)

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Just now, Birdframe_Prime said:

I know it's not the depth of the mud you stand in, but the height of your boots...

As I've said I've played Oberon since 2016. So I'm familiar with the guy and hve made him work. 

But look at Zephyr, especially zephyr. She got a few tweaks and has gone from meme to powerhouse.

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

But look at Zephyr, especially zephyr. She got a few tweaks and has gone from meme to powerhouse.

That's what I'm saying.

It will happen.

But these feedback forums have absolutely zero influence on it. DE even came right out and said so themselves; Pablo actually stated that reworks only happen when they get some flash of inspiration. They aren't checking these feedback forums for actual ideas, only as a measuring stick of how happy/unhappy we are.

You just have to wait for that flash of inspiration. That we can't give them. Because they don't actually come here for that.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

I have to ask the obvious. WHY HAVE THEM IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO READ THE FORUM

[Birdframe_Prime]

23 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

I have to ask the obvious. WHY HAVE THEM IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO READ THE FORUM

Picture this:

You have a team of around ten people who are 'Community Facing' and are able to operate the Social Media, including, but not limited to, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. These people have to participate in daily Twitch streams on a cycle from week to week for at least an hour minimum, which takes prep and planning They even have to aggregate suitable content for monthly DevStreams from the different teams in the studio and prep the higher ups for what they should or shouldn't announce at any given time.

They are then additionally tasked with monitoring and trying to make sense of the feedback from multiple sources, such as the Forums, Reddit and Youtube (where content creators can post some seriously weird S#&$).

Some of the team have to work with the dedicated support group that DE hire on to handle actual complaints about the game to find out what game bugs are actually damaging and need compensation or are just things to pass on to the other teams for fixing at a later date.

On top of that they have to monitor live content from Twitch and Youtube to ensure that things like Drops are functioning correctly and organise competitions, give-aways and then deal with the content creators that are officially part of the Creator Programme to ensure that they have the relevant information they need for upcoming events, and that these same people do not break NDA agreements.

Add further that this team actually has to be out-reaching too, talking to other companies, organising the chance to be interviewed at different events.

They have advertise the game on all avenues that are not based around actual Ads placed online that annoy people trying to watch Youtube videos.

So...

How much time in their day would they be able to actually allocate to reading the Forums?

Monitoring the Forums, yes, getting reports from the Forum Admins about things going on, or getting a general feel for how people are acting about a certain change or an existing problem.

Actually going and reading them in a dedicated fashion? Probably not.

And consider even further:

The people that make Reworks to the frames are not part of the Community team.

They are part of the actual teams for active design and programming of the game itself. They already have full-time jobs and deadlines. They go home and they don't want to spend their free time on reading about the things they've just been working on.

So unless you're able to, in some way, fund DE to give Pablo or any of his team an hour or so a day to go to the Forums and Reddit and all of the other places people complain about the state of a Warframe or Mission or Weapon, and read through all of the absolute butt-hattery that is the average feedback thread...

Then you're out of luck.

Why have the Forums? Because it's a place for us, the players, to engage with each other.

Sections labelled 'Feedback' are there for us to put our ideas into and hope (that magical, all-pervasive substance) for them to be seen because, in reality, almost none of them ever are.

[BeardyKyle]

Tbh I think it's less about reading forum posts and more about the analytics. IE how many players are using Oberon and in which missions. If there's a clear indicator that he's being utilized in his current state I don't think they'll be pushed to make any changes.

 

Personally Oberon is my most used frame by a large margin. That's mainly because I am a glutton for punishment, I enjoy his aesthetic and theme and am constantly trying to find ways to mod him to be a better frame. You could say I like making the game harder for myself lol cause I could just play as nezha or ember or wukong all the time.